Kath
Full Member
Posts: 446
Jun 26, 2014 12:15:31 GMT
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Post by Kath on Sept 15, 2020 13:24:42 GMT
Thanks to everyone who recommended books. I can understand how many people might just read a book and feel like they’ve done their part, but I don’t think most of the women on this board fall into that category, judging by the posts, thoughts and actions that have been revealed in these types of discussions.
Reading helps me process things, gives me more insight into the multitude of views that are out there and then from reading, action is formulated. Thoughts, ideas, words, actions. This is my general process and I would imagine for others it is the same.
I’ve been in a situation at work since day 1 when I first walked in to my job having just moved and found my first friend in the state. She has become one of my closest and dearest friends and she is black. I love her dearly, we text and talk daily night and day, go out for coffee regularly, and with her I have observed the most “pleasant unintended“ racism in a state of predominantly white people and Trump supporters.
The recent protests have affected her, bringing up inner fears a woman can feel for her husband and children in this environment and, though she is usually a reserved and gentle soul, she took to Facebook to express her sadness. The responses by some in her church community were shocking and reprehensible. Through all of this, she has remained calm, full of grace and kindness in spite of fear. She has been a teacher and a role model of everything I want to be in the face of continuous turmoil and I admire her greatly.
So I want to read.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Sept 15, 2020 13:30:24 GMT
“ The right acknowledgment of black justice, humanity, freedom and happiness won’t be found in your book clubs, protest signs, chalk talks or organizational statements. It will be found in your earnest willingness to dismantle systems that stand in our way — be they at your job, in your social network, your neighborhood associations, your family or your home. It’s not just about amplifying our voices, it’s about investing in them and in our businesses, education, political representation, power, housing and art. It starts, also, with reflection on the harm you’ve probably caused in a black person’s life. It may have happened when you were 10, 16, 22, 36 or 42. Comforting as it may be to read and discuss the big questions about race and justice and America, making up for past wrongs means starting with the fact that you’ve done wrong in the past, perhaps without realizing it at the time: in the old workplace, neighborhood, classroom, softball field. Maybe even the book club. I am at a beer garden in Fishtown when the Trayvon Martin murder case reaches its conclusion. I am home in bed, curled like a question mark, crying over the news that Philando Castile has just been shot in front of his partner and their child. Freddie Gray is dead and I am standing in the district office of the Camden City School District, mourning with black co-workers. And I am all these things at once again when I watch my white colleagues, friends, acquaintances and long-ago classmates reopen this time loop. Still learning how to be allies yet never making amends to us.” This quote is from the Washington Post article. The authors name is Tre Johnson out of PA. A very good read. www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/white-antiracist-allyship-book-clubs/2020/06/11/9edcc766-abf5-11ea-94d2-d7bc43b26bf9_story.html?outputType=ampWho is to tell someone how and where they should come to those realizations? And who is to say that reading a book (or God forbid, even a book club!) might not be a good place for someone to start exploring those things about themselves?
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 23, 2024 12:57:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2020 13:39:39 GMT
“ The right acknowledgment of black justice, humanity, freedom and happiness won’t be found in your book clubs, protest signs, chalk talks or organizational statements. It will be found in your earnest willingness to dismantle systems that stand in our way — be they at your job, in your social network, your neighborhood associations, your family or your home. It’s not just about amplifying our voices, it’s about investing in them and in our businesses, education, political representation, power, housing and art. It starts, also, with reflection on the harm you’ve probably caused in a black person’s life. It may have happened when you were 10, 16, 22, 36 or 42. Comforting as it may be to read and discuss the big questions about race and justice and America, making up for past wrongs means starting with the fact that you’ve done wrong in the past, perhaps without realizing it at the time: in the old workplace, neighborhood, classroom, softball field. Maybe even the book club. I am at a beer garden in Fishtown when the Trayvon Martin murder case reaches its conclusion. I am home in bed, curled like a question mark, crying over the news that Philando Castile has just been shot in front of his partner and their child. Freddie Gray is dead and I am standing in the district office of the Camden City School District, mourning with black co-workers. And I am all these things at once again when I watch my white colleagues, friends, acquaintances and long-ago classmates reopen this time loop. Still learning how to be allies yet never making amends to us.” This quote is from the Washington Post article. The authors name is Tre Johnson out of PA. A very good read. www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/white-antiracist-allyship-book-clubs/2020/06/11/9edcc766-abf5-11ea-94d2-d7bc43b26bf9_story.html?outputType=ampI like this: "The confusing, perhaps contradictory advice on what white people should do probably feels maddening. To be told to step up, no step back, read, no listen, protest, don’t protest, check on black friends, leave us alone, ask for help or do the work — it probably feels contradictory at times. And yet, you’ll figure it out. Black people have been similarly exhausted making the case for jobs, freedom, happiness, justice, equality and the like. It’s made us dizzy, but we’ve managed to find the means to walk straight." I can handle being upset and confused. It won't kill me to deal with that and work through it. Anti-racism is worth it.
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Olan
Pearl Clutcher
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Posts: 4,053
Jul 13, 2014 21:23:27 GMT
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Post by Olan on Sept 15, 2020 13:45:37 GMT
“ The right acknowledgment of black justice, humanity, freedom and happiness won’t be found in your book clubs, protest signs, chalk talks or organizational statements. It will be found in your earnest willingness to dismantle systems that stand in our way — be they at your job, in your social network, your neighborhood associations, your family or your home. It’s not just about amplifying our voices, it’s about investing in them and in our businesses, education, political representation, power, housing and art. It starts, also, with reflection on the harm you’ve probably caused in a black person’s life. It may have happened when you were 10, 16, 22, 36 or 42. Comforting as it may be to read and discuss the big questions about race and justice and America, making up for past wrongs means starting with the fact that you’ve done wrong in the past, perhaps without realizing it at the time: in the old workplace, neighborhood, classroom, softball field. Maybe even the book club. I am at a beer garden in Fishtown when the Trayvon Martin murder case reaches its conclusion. I am home in bed, curled like a question mark, crying over the news that Philando Castile has just been shot in front of his partner and their child. Freddie Gray is dead and I am standing in the district office of the Camden City School District, mourning with black co-workers. And I am all these things at once again when I watch my white colleagues, friends, acquaintances and long-ago classmates reopen this time loop. Still learning how to be allies yet never making amends to us.” This quote is from the Washington Post article. The authors name is Tre Johnson out of PA. A very good read. www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/white-antiracist-allyship-book-clubs/2020/06/11/9edcc766-abf5-11ea-94d2-d7bc43b26bf9_story.html?outputType=ampWho is to tell someone how and where they should come to those realizations? And who is to say that reading a book (or God forbid, even a book club!) might not be a good place for someone to start exploring those things about themselves? I think the author wants you to understand that while your book club might be a good start, actionable change, can sometimes be forgotten in spaces where white women gather. I know from my threads where people tell historical half truths and question the validity of studies that a good part of the work IS educating yourselves but there is absolutely more to be done than just reading a book and calling yourself anti-racist. Whose to say? Well you’ve gotta be able to take direction if you want to help 🤷🏾♀️
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Post by hop2 on Sept 15, 2020 14:06:32 GMT
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Sept 15, 2020 14:54:44 GMT
“ The right acknowledgment of black justice, humanity, freedom and happiness won’t be found in your book clubs, protest signs, chalk talks or organizational statements. It will be found in your earnest willingness to dismantle systems that stand in our way — be they at your job, in your social network, your neighborhood associations, your family or your home. It’s not just about amplifying our voices, it’s about investing in them and in our businesses, education, political representation, power, housing and art. It starts, also, with reflection on the harm you’ve probably caused in a black person’s life. It may have happened when you were 10, 16, 22, 36 or 42. Comforting as it may be to read and discuss the big questions about race and justice and America, making up for past wrongs means starting with the fact that you’ve done wrong in the past, perhaps without realizing it at the time: in the old workplace, neighborhood, classroom, softball field. Maybe even the book club. I am at a beer garden in Fishtown when the Trayvon Martin murder case reaches its conclusion. I am home in bed, curled like a question mark, crying over the news that Philando Castile has just been shot in front of his partner and their child. Freddie Gray is dead and I am standing in the district office of the Camden City School District, mourning with black co-workers. And I am all these things at once again when I watch my white colleagues, friends, acquaintances and long-ago classmates reopen this time loop. Still learning how to be allies yet never making amends to us.” This quote is from the Washington Post article. The authors name is Tre Johnson out of PA. A very good read. www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/white-antiracist-allyship-book-clubs/2020/06/11/9edcc766-abf5-11ea-94d2-d7bc43b26bf9_story.html?outputType=ampI like this: "The confusing, perhaps contradictory advice on what white people should do probably feels maddening. To be told to step up, no step back, read, no listen, protest, don’t protest, check on black friends, leave us alone, ask for help or do the work — it probably feels contradictory at times. And yet, you’ll figure it out. Black people have been similarly exhausted making the case for jobs, freedom, happiness, justice, equality and the like. It’s made us dizzy, but we’ve managed to find the means to walk straight." I can handle being upset and confused. It won't kill me to deal with that and work through it. Anti-racism is worth it. I think some people seem to take joy in creating that confusion. IMO, it is counterproductive. I also agree that moving forward into action steps is the goal. However, we need to recognize that people are in different spaces meeting them where they are is more effective than telling them they aren’t didn’t the eighth thing or enough.
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Olan
Pearl Clutcher
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Posts: 4,053
Jul 13, 2014 21:23:27 GMT
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Post by Olan on Sept 15, 2020 15:15:03 GMT
Why would anyone find joy in confusing someone vested in becoming anti-racist?
ETA It’s kind of an insulting concept when you think it through. Be mindful of the fact that white people created this system without the help of Black people. Personal responsibility and ownership would dictate that anti-racist work be done by those who benefit from it the most. Placing the onus on Black people to not only help you, but do it in such a way to tip toe around your emotions is kind of abusive.
We don’t tell rape victims to fix systems that resulted in their assault so why do it to Black people?
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Post by Darcy Collins on Sept 15, 2020 16:32:36 GMT
I have read it, and my comment is not a reflection the quality of the book, it's a reflection too many women who seem to think that reading the book is a huge accomplishment and whenever the subject of race comes up they refer to it. Uh....ok. Why is any different than mentioning any book that you think would be helpful to read? Or naming a source? Isn’t the goal to help people have insight into their own prejudice, history, and systemic racism? Why would it be a bad thing to mention a book that can help achieve that? It’s ironic (or hypocritical?) that your post did exactly what you claim I was doing by referencing the book. First off I didn't claim YOU were doing anything in referencing the book - my post was quoting the article and my experiences, I'm sorry if you took it personally as it was in no way directed at you and I did not tag or quote you in any way. If you haven't experience anything like the quote I originally agreed with than great. It resonated with me as someone who has a very diverse family and grew up in a very diverse and poor area. I have seen too many woman who have spent their entire life in a wealthy, white bubble reference that book as if they are now an expert and using it as a cloak that they couldn't possibly be racists as they've read the book.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 23, 2024 12:57:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2020 18:41:03 GMT
I guess I should file for divorce then. My husband is a diehard trumper. Just got into politics in 2016. He's also boycotting football because "they" made it political.
I just watch my games (Yay Bills!) and ignore him.
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Sept 15, 2020 18:43:18 GMT
Thanks to everyone who recommended books. I can understand how many people might just read a book and feel like they’ve done their part, but I don’t think most of the women on this board fall into that category, judging by the posts, thoughts and actions that have been revealed in these types of discussions. Reading helps me process things, gives me more insight into the multitude of views that are out there and then from reading, action is formulated. Thoughts, ideas, words, actions. This is my general process and I would imagine for others it is the same. I’ve been in a situation at work since day 1 when I first walked in to my job having just moved and found my first friend in the state. She has become one of my closest and dearest friends and she is black. I love her dearly, we text and talk daily night and day, go out for coffee regularly, and with her I have observed the most “pleasant unintended“ racism in a state of predominantly white people and Trump supporters. The recent protests have affected her, bringing up inner fears a woman can feel for her husband and children in this environment and, though she is usually a reserved and gentle soul, she took to Facebook to express her sadness. The responses by some in her church community were shocking and reprehensible. Through all of this, she has remained calm, full of grace and kindness in spite of fear. She has been a teacher and a role model of everything I want to be in the face of continuous turmoil and I admire her greatly. So I want to read. You seem like you’re in a good place to read these, and have them be the beginning of a journey - and not be something to like check off a list. I’ve been reading these on my own. I wasn’t raised here - so I feel like I’ve got a lot to learn and understand, so I’m on that part of mine now. The learning is at times brutal, but worthwhile, I think.
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Sept 15, 2020 18:44:59 GMT
I guess I should file for divorce then. My husband is a diehard trumper. Just got into politics in 2016. He's also boycotting football because "they" made it political. I just watch my games (Yay Bills!) and ignore him. That is definitely more complicated than letting go of friendships, I’ll grant you.
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Post by lauradrumm on Sept 15, 2020 19:11:29 GMT
vm.tiktok.com/ZMJDJNaJF/I highly recommend looking at this woman’s TikTok to see a religious person’s transformation to calling out Trump’s hate and the hypocrisy of the religious right. It is well thought out and I find her honesty refreshing.
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Post by annaintx on Sept 15, 2020 21:41:20 GMT
Thank you for these. I've ordered some books listed in those articles, I appreciate a good starting place.
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Post by annaintx on Sept 15, 2020 21:43:33 GMT
No problem! Thanks for your willingness to read them! I stopped reading the thread way way way back there (had to get stuff done) but am glad to see more books/places to read and learn. Thank you for sharing these, I'll go back and reread carefully and write down books etc. to read. Thank you!
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Post by scrappintoee on Sept 16, 2020 21:57:47 GMT
vm.tiktok.com/ZMJDJNaJF/I highly recommend looking at this woman’s TikTok to see a religious person’s transformation to calling out Trump’s hate and the hypocrisy of the religious right. It is well thought out and I find her honesty refreshing. lauradrumm .....I tried to watch, but for some reason, my laptop won't play it. I'll try watching on my phone later; I'm very interested to see that she said. I am hoping my sister, who still says cheeto was "chosen by God" will FINALLY change her mind. Since she told my elderly Dad that he's NOT high risk for Covid 2 weeks ago, that was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back, and I stopped speaking to her. I also no longer look at her FB/ Insta, so I have no idea if she's finally come to her senses (ugh, I doubt it, but mayyybe!) The one thing I DO know is that one of her friends was gloating and bragging that he was in the audience for cheeto's RNC event at the White House- SANS MASK, of course! After seeing that, I decided it was healthier for me to stop looking at any of her or her weird cult members...errr....her friends' social media. (sidenote---this friend of hers was also in the group that my sister flew to DC with to pray for Kavanaugh at his hearings). I was wondering if you could explain something your former friend said in one of her horrible texts. Sorry, I'm paraphrasing, but it regarded you worrying about your business failing, and she said something like "go ahead and give it to someone else who deserves it." I may have misunderstood, (I hope!) but I took it as her saying you don't DESERVE to keep your business afloat? More (( hugs )) to you---I KNOW how hard this is !!!
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Post by femalebusiness on Sept 16, 2020 22:12:06 GMT
When I was in high school I got on a kick of reading self help and psychology books for several years. I read them all. I thought some of the information was nonsense but a lot of it was solid. I grew and benefited greatly from the knowledge that I gained. For me, I usually do a lot of reading on a subject, pick and chose what helps me and discard the information that doesn't ring true. Not every book will be 100% true or helpful, but glean from each book what is.
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Post by lauradrumm on Sept 17, 2020 2:02:21 GMT
vm.tiktok.com/ZMJDJNaJF/I highly recommend looking at this woman’s TikTok to see a religious person’s transformation to calling out Trump’s hate and the hypocrisy of the religious right. It is well thought out and I find her honesty refreshing. lauradrumm .....I tried to watch, but for some reason, my laptop won't play it. I'll try watching on my phone later; I'm very interested to see that she said. I am hoping my sister, who still says cheeto was "chosen by God" will FINALLY change her mind. Since she told my elderly Dad that he's NOT high risk for Covid 2 weeks ago, that was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back, and I stopped speaking to her. I also no longer look at her FB/ Insta anymore, so I have no idea if she's finally come to her senses (ugh, I doubt it, but mayyybe!) The one thing I DO know is that one of her friends was gloating and bragging that he was in the audience for cheeto's RNC event, SANS MASK, of course! After seeing that, I decided it was healthier for me to stop looking at any of her or her weird cult members...errr....her friends' social media. (sidenote---this friend of hers was also in the group that my sister flew to DC with to pray for Kavanaugh at his hearings). I was wondering if you could explain something your former friend said in one of her horrible texts. Sorry, I'm paraphrasing, but it regarded you worrying about your business failing, and she said something like "go ahead and give it to someone else who deserves it." I may have misunderstood, (I hope!) but I took it as her saying you don't DESERVE to keep your business afloat? More (( hugs )) to you---I KNOW how hard this is !!! I took it to mean that if I’m so big on helping the down trodden just give them my business. Like most small businesses we are struggling because of Covid. Ironically I blame Trump for things getting this bad and his mishandling it that caused a worse outcome. I’m sorry you’re going through this also and I’m sending that hug right back to you. I view this as an opportunity to find more like minded friends.
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Post by lauradrumm on Sept 17, 2020 2:06:37 GMT
I guess I should file for divorce then. My husband is a diehard trumper. Just got into politics in 2016. He's also boycotting football because "they" made it political. I just watch my games (Yay Bills!) and ignore him. That’s certainly up to you but I couldn’t be married to a Trumpster.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 23, 2024 12:57:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2020 14:51:59 GMT
you do you.
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Post by heckofagal on Sept 17, 2020 14:56:58 GMT
I also may be losing my BFFs because of this man! 2 of my very best BFFs are pro-Trump (I know, I'm appalled too). T's boyfriend keeps posting incorrect shit on Facebook. I"m not even sure why I haven't hid his posts yet, but its almost comical how he picks the most absurd things to post. Today it was a picture of Obama & Fauci in a lab with the caption "Why was Barack Obama at the Wujan Lab in China in 2015 with Dr. Fauci and Melinda Gates. Why did Barack Obama give $5 million dollars to the Wujan lab to study a virus?" A quick google search shows this is a photo taken at NIH in Bethesda, MD in regards to an Ebola vaccine. So I had to post a response like "Why you posting a picture of ..... and trying to link it to Covid 19?
I'm trying to be more neutral on FB, but when acquaintances post out right BS they need to be called on it.
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pilcas
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,237
Aug 14, 2015 21:47:17 GMT
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Post by pilcas on Sept 17, 2020 15:01:34 GMT
While I have not lost close friends, I have colleagues and people in my circle for whom I have totally lost respect. I have no problem chit chatting with them about this and that but they are not going to be my close friends, nor am I going to nurture any kind of meaningful friendship. It is more than a difference of opinion.
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Post by lauradrumm on Sept 17, 2020 19:01:57 GMT
you do you. Not sure why you felt it necessary to post on my thread🙄
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Post by mnmloveli on Sept 17, 2020 19:17:29 GMT
you do you. Not sure why you felt it necessary to post on my thread🙄 Because she can ! Look at all the other threads lately that once “you enter”, quite a few go off the rails in another direction. At least she stayed on topic. That’s the Peas !
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Post by chlerbie on Sept 17, 2020 20:25:44 GMT
you do you. Not sure why you felt it necessary to post on my thread🙄 She was responding to you saying that you couldn't be married to a Trumper. She just didn't hit reply.
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Post by pierogi on Sept 17, 2020 20:33:21 GMT
Laura, just ignore the rude posters who are proving your point. As said before, they take pleasure in other people's pain. I was thinking about you today. You'll go on to make new friends who will see your compassion for others as a positive thing. They'll value your kindness and humanity. That doesn't diminish the grief of losing a friend like that, but it sounds like she changed, not you. Her text about "white people pride" was really disturbing, and it was brave of you to stand up against that kind of dehumanizing mindset, especially coming from someone so close. We're here for you.
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Post by lauradrumm on Sept 18, 2020 5:11:22 GMT
Laura, just ignore the rude posters who are proving your point. As said before, they take pleasure in other people's pain. I was thinking about you today. You'll go on to make new friends who will see your compassion for others as a positive thing. They'll value your kindness and humanity. That doesn't diminish the grief of losing a friend like that, but it sounds like she changed, not you. Her text about "white people pride" was really disturbing, and it was brave of you to stand up against that kind of dehumanizing mindset, especially coming from someone so close. We're here for you. I can’t tell you how kind your post is and me feel better. Honestly the anger is now kicking in! Thank you so very much❤️
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 23, 2024 12:57:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2020 13:29:02 GMT
Newsflash - when you post on a public forum you will get responses you do not care for. Unless your name is 2peas I don't think this is your anything. You may want to make sure when you post your "friend wanted" ad that you make clear they need to agree with all your opinions and/or provide the rules they will need to adhere to. It may save you heartbreak in the future.
Off to enjoy a day with friends who have diverse opinions on many topics... all with different political leanings.
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carhoch
Pearl Clutcher
Be yourself everybody else is already taken
Posts: 3,044
Location: We’re RV’s so It change all the time .
Jun 28, 2014 21:46:39 GMT
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Post by carhoch on Sept 19, 2020 13:56:14 GMT
I use to have a pretty close relationship with one of my neighbors but when he told me to go back to my country (I have a dual citizenship) because I didn’t like Trump ... he was never allowed in my house ever again.
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Sept 19, 2020 15:10:06 GMT
Newsflash - when you post on a public forum you will get responses you do not care for. Unless your name is 2peas I don't think this is your anything. You may want to make sure when you post your "friend wanted" ad that you make clear they need to agree with all your opinions and/or provide the rules they will need to adhere to. It may save you heartbreak in the future. Off to enjoy a day with friends who have diverse opinions on many topics... all with different political leanings. So why do you and your conservative buddies run around liking all the snowflake whines about liberal peas posting on pro Trump and other conservative threads? Pretty sure a conservative would have posted a 36 paragraph screed about bullies and the left and deflection in response to your nasty comment. You conservatives are like rabid dogs. Really can't help yourselves, can you? 😂
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Post by lauradrumm on Sept 20, 2020 5:56:34 GMT
Newsflash - when you post on a public forum you will get responses you do not care for. Unless your name is 2peas I don't think this is your anything. You may want to make sure when you post your "friend wanted" ad that you make clear they need to agree with all your opinions and/or provide the rules they will need to adhere to. It may save you heartbreak in the future. Off to enjoy a day with friends who have diverse opinions on many topics... all with different political leanings. Well you can fuck right off and have fun. Not sure why you think this is an ad for friends. If it were, you certainly need not apply! I’m in no mood for your bullshit bitch!
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