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Post by aj2hall on Jan 2, 2021 6:31:01 GMT
The numbers are down, but people are still traveling south for the winter. apnews.com/article/travel-pandemics-arizona-florida-coronavirus-pandemic-b7bc22b9d3946d5535a792716c137192What am I missing? If you’re traveling from the Northeast, especially New England or Canada, the cases are lower than in Florida. Assuming you’re older, retired & not traveling for financial reasons, why not stay put? I live in New Hampshire, so I understand cold winters. But in the middle of a pandemic, that doesn’t seem like a compelling reason. |
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dixielee50
Junior Member
Posts: 92
Aug 3, 2018 19:58:28 GMT
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Post by dixielee50 on Jan 2, 2021 6:54:35 GMT
I understand what you're getting at. It does seem strange. My brother (66yr)& his gal left Monday for their winter trip. They have a camper & will spend the next 4 months traveling. Right now they are in Alabama, I think, but they'll be traveling through the south, heading West, hit Utah by spring & then working their way back to the midwest. They were hyper-careful before they left, not getting together with the kids at all since Thanksgiving. They'll be careful. They did this last year too. They were traveling went things got bad and they were fine. Not something I would do but it's their decision.
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tracylynn
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by tracylynn on Jan 2, 2021 8:48:06 GMT
Honestly, I think it's an asshole move. Especially the Canadians flouting border restrictions to do it.
My parents travel in their motorhome to S. California to their Winter property every year. Guess what they're doing this winter? Sitting their asses at home in the snow and cold in SE Washington. And hating it. But they're doing it because it's the right thing to do. And they made the right decision - they're watching the FB page of their community and I swear, you'd think there are no rules. And they are in Riverside County in S. California - cases ain't great down there.
The amount of people unwilling to do the right thing really just astounds me. It honestly changes my opinions of people within my circle. And that makes me super sad.
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Post by Basket1lady on Jan 2, 2021 9:04:36 GMT
My parents will go in March and stay a month. Dad says they may as well stay put in their cottage on the beach vs their house. I don’t know that I disagree. They should be vaccinated by then (if the US ever gets on track.) If not, they can get vaccinated in Florida since they are pretty much vaccinating anyone standing in line.
They were down there at the start of it all and were fairly smart about it. Outdoor gatherings in small groups, not eating out, not going to ball games. They are good about wearing masks, so I think it’s about as safe as they can make it.
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Post by nlwilkins on Jan 2, 2021 10:05:49 GMT
Sure the travelers will be careful. But what about the people who have to go to work to make it possible for them to travel? They don't have a choice and some of them will have to be hospitalized in hospitals that are already being overloaded. Some of them will have no problems but some will have no symptoms and will infect their loved ones without knowing. The more people moving around makes it harder for authorities to trace the infected ones and make it harder for them to keep others safe.
Staying home lessens the burden on those having to do their jobs and makes it more possible to help bring down the numbers.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2021 10:53:15 GMT
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paigepea
Drama Llama
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Jun 26, 2014 4:28:55 GMT
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Post by paigepea on Jan 2, 2021 13:20:57 GMT
I also don’t get it. I personally don’t know anyone who has gone away but I’ve heard of people. Mostly my friends who have parents who live in snowy climates.
From what I understand, for many seniors it’s hard staying out the winter at home and it means complete indoor isolation if they can’t drive in the snow, clear their walkways / driveways, get out in the cold. They feel that being in a location where they can be outside all day is safer / healthier, especially if they own the second home and it’s not like being in a hotel.
But I also don’t get the many people who travelled for thanksgiving or Xmas. The today show reported that US holiday travel was down 30% (that’s it?) whereas our Canadian holiday travel was down at least 85%. I only know essential workers travelling for work now. Everyone else I know who used to travel for work is still not.
I’m sure the snowbirds will be fine but I couldn’t make the decision to go away because I’m too much of a what if person.
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kibblesandbits
Pearl Clutcher
At the corner of Awesome and Bombdiggity
Posts: 3,305
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Post by kibblesandbits on Jan 2, 2021 13:47:02 GMT
I can make the same decisions about protection and safety at my home in SWFL as I can in my home up north. At least here, I can be outside. At home the weather is not super conducive to that, and all our gyms are closed. I can exercise outside here. My husband is safer here, without the threat of slip and fall.
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Post by whipea on Jan 2, 2021 13:53:18 GMT
Spoken from the perspective of an essential worker.
There are a few issues that come along with Snowbird arrival. First, they are usually not young robust people and many have health issues not related to COVID that impacts the local medical system, including the already overburdened emergency services. Next, getting the vaccine is not that easy and readily available. In the interim they are putting themselves at great risk no matter how careful. Just doing daily tasks such as grocery shopping, picking up food and getting gas, especially in Florida where virtually no restrictions apply or are uniformly enforced is risky. For those that feel they can just have things delivered and never leave the house, that brings me to the last point. The justification to travel to warmer climates because they fear being locked in and isolated by weather does not fly. If you are not essential you should make every effort to be in and isolated no matter the location. If people can seasonally travel to second homes or other residences, I know this is a big assumption, they should be in a financial situation to pay someone to clear their driveways and have other services. Bottom line is migrating throughout the country is just plain selfish. |
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Post by SockMonkey on Jan 2, 2021 14:10:22 GMT
Spoken from the perspective of an essential worker.
There are a few issues that come along with Snowbird arrival. First, they are usually not young robust people and many have health issues not related to COVID that impacts the local medical system, including the already overburdened emergency services. Next, getting the vaccine is not that easy and readily available. In the interim they are putting themselves at great risk no matter how careful. Just doing daily tasks such as grocery shopping, picking up food and getting gas, especially in Florida where virtually no restrictions apply or are uniformly enforced is risky. For those that feel they can just have things delivered and never leave the house, that brings me to the last point. The justification to travel to warmer climates because they fear being locked in and isolated by weather does not fly. If you are not essential you should make every effort to be in and isolated no matter the location. If people can seasonally travel to second homes or other residences, I know this is a big assumption, they should be in a financial situation to pay someone to clear their driveways and have other services. Bottom line is migrating throughout the country is just plain selfish. All of this! If you have 2 homes, you can pay someone to do your drive and sidewalks. You're staying home anyway, right? And traveling to a location with higher spread also means the hospitals are more strained, so adding MORE PEOPLE to the mix, even if they don't get COVID, is dangerous. Snowbirds still fall down, cut themselves, have cardiac issues, get food poisoning, all kinds of things that can land them in an already strained hospital/medical system. It's selfish and stupid. |
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ashley
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by ashley on Jan 2, 2021 14:12:11 GMT
Canadians are allowed to fly out of the country, so not sure how they’re flouting any restrictions — it’s permitted.
The snowbirds I know have no winter home here. They stay in a seasonal trailer over the summer. I know, for example, if these were my parents in this position, I’d have no way to accommodate them in my home and they couldn’t afford to pay for their Florida home as well as find a new place to stay here.
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Post by Basket1lady on Jan 2, 2021 14:24:02 GMT
I get what you all are saying. I really do. I really struggled with what to advise my parents to do. Other than gas and a rest side stop, my parents aren’t interacting with anyone. They plan to drive straight through and just get to their cottage. They should be vaccinated by March. If so, aren’t they the ones who should be working to restart the economy? Especially the tourist business which has been hit so hard.
The reality is that people are out of savings. We are going to see people lose their homes and businesses in drives very soon. Not just those who were operating on the edge, but those who had stable businesses, saved for a rainy day, and had a plan for a lean year. If someone has been vaccinated, I’m praying they would be part of the solution and not part of the problem.
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Post by SockMonkey on Jan 2, 2021 14:27:48 GMT
I get what you all are saying. I really do. I really struggled with what to advise my parents to do. Other than gas and a rest side stop, my parents aren’t interacting with anyone. They plan to drive straight through and just get to their cottage. They should be vaccinated by March. If so, aren’t they the ones who should be working to restart the economy? Especially the tourist business which has been hit so hard. The reality is that people are out of savings. We are going to see people lose their homes and businesses in drives very soon. Not just those who were operating on the edge, but those who had stable businesses, saved for a rainy day, and had a plan for a lean year. If someone has been vaccinated, I’m praying they would be part of the solution and not part of the problem. Until a huge portion of the population can be vaccinated, restarting the economy by opening things up will only continue to spread the virus and kill people. Period. This is excellent writing that lays out what year 2 really looks like: www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/12/pandemic-year-two/617528/ |
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ashley
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by ashley on Jan 2, 2021 14:29:14 GMT
Spoken from the perspective of an essential worker.
There are a few issues that come along with Snowbird arrival. First, they are usually not young robust people and many have health issues not related to COVID that impacts the local medical system, including the already overburdened emergency services. Next, getting the vaccine is not that easy and readily available. In the interim they are putting themselves at great risk no matter how careful. Just doing daily tasks such as grocery shopping, picking up food and getting gas, especially in Florida where virtually no restrictions apply or are uniformly enforced is risky. For those that feel they can just have things delivered and never leave the house, that brings me to the last point. The justification to travel to warmer climates because they fear being locked in and isolated by weather does not fly. If you are not essential you should make every effort to be in and isolated no matter the location. If people can seasonally travel to second homes or other residences, I know this is a big assumption, they should be in a financial situation to pay someone to clear their driveways and have other services. Bottom line is migrating throughout the country is just plain selfish. All of this! If you have 2 homes, you can pay someone to do your drive and sidewalks. You're staying home anyway, right? And traveling to a location with higher spread also means the hospitals are more strained, so adding MORE PEOPLE to the mix, even if they don't get COVID, is dangerous. Snowbirds still fall down, cut themselves, have cardiac issues, get food poisoning, all kinds of things that can land them in an already strained hospital/medical system. It's selfish and stupid. The many snowbirds I know do not have two homes that can be occupied year round. And I’m sure many don’t have the income to pay for a third short term place for six months, in addition to paying for snow shovelling as you suggest. |
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Post by SockMonkey on Jan 2, 2021 14:32:28 GMT
All of this! If you have 2 homes, you can pay someone to do your drive and sidewalks. You're staying home anyway, right? And traveling to a location with higher spread also means the hospitals are more strained, so adding MORE PEOPLE to the mix, even if they don't get COVID, is dangerous. Snowbirds still fall down, cut themselves, have cardiac issues, get food poisoning, all kinds of things that can land them in an already strained hospital/medical system. It's selfish and stupid. The many snowbirds I know do not have two homes that can be occupied year round. And I’m sure many don’t have the income to pay for a third short term place for six months, in addition to paying for snow shovelling as you suggest. That situation doesn't change the fact that their choice to live in two places may impact another community negatively in this pandemic. It is just a fact. Perhaps they are not choosing to be selfish because one of the homes is uninhabitable, but that doesn't change the impact of traveling to a more populated area with higher virus transmission rates. |
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Post by busy on Jan 2, 2021 14:36:39 GMT
Obviously there are a lot of risk that go along with this, and obviously it would be better for everyone if they stayed put. However, I also think a lot of assumptions are being made about the financial situation of snowbirds. Sure, many are financially secure and own their homes in both places so have flexibility and could easily stay in the cold climate. But that's not the case for everyone - they could seasonally rent, live in properties that aren't meant to be lived in during winter, have tenants they have to vacate for, or a bunch of other reasons that make "just stay there" not as simple as it's being made out to be. The stereotype of snowbirds is that they're wealthy but that's far from a universal truth.
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ashley
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by ashley on Jan 2, 2021 14:40:16 GMT
The many snowbirds I know do not have two homes that can be occupied year round. And I’m sure many don’t have the income to pay for a third short term place for six months, in addition to paying for snow shovelling as you suggest. That situation doesn't change the fact that their choice to live in two places may impact another community negatively in this pandemic. It is just a fact. Perhaps they are not choosing to be selfish because one of the homes is uninhabitable, but that doesn't change the impact of traveling to a more populated area with higher virus transmission rates. so what is the solution then? I honestly don’t see what the big deal is — they can be just as safe in their winter home as they were here in their summer home. I have huge issues with people travelling for fun and vacation but these people are going to their second home. |
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Post by whipea on Jan 2, 2021 14:41:37 GMT
All of this! If you have 2 homes, you can pay someone to do your drive and sidewalks. You're staying home anyway, right? And traveling to a location with higher spread also means the hospitals are more strained, so adding MORE PEOPLE to the mix, even if they don't get COVID, is dangerous. Snowbirds still fall down, cut themselves, have cardiac issues, get food poisoning, all kinds of things that can land them in an already strained hospital/medical system. It's selfish and stupid. The many snowbirds I know do not have two homes that can be occupied year round. And I’m sure many don’t have the income to pay for a third short term place for six months, in addition to paying for snow shovelling as you suggest. They need to find somewhere local and stay in place, not business as usual. Why put themselves at risk, especially if they are coming to Florida. |
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Post by SockMonkey on Jan 2, 2021 14:47:57 GMT
That situation doesn't change the fact that their choice to live in two places may impact another community negatively in this pandemic. It is just a fact. Perhaps they are not choosing to be selfish because one of the homes is uninhabitable, but that doesn't change the impact of traveling to a more populated area with higher virus transmission rates. so what is the solution then? I honestly don’t see what the big deal is — they can be just as safe in their winter home as they were here in their summer home. I have huge issues with people travelling for fun and vacation but these people are going to their second home. Everyone thinks their own motivations and situation are the exception, and that they aren't impacting the situation. They'll go, and they'll impact the situation by adding to the population in a potentially already strained location, regardless of how many precautions they take, or why they're traveling there. And then on top of them, who think they can be safe and can't/won't explore other options, you will layer on everyone else who thinks their situation is different or special, that they need the warm weather, that they're bored at home or their driveway is too slippery. February and March are going to be a real fuckshow. |
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ashley
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,400
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Post by ashley on Jan 2, 2021 14:48:06 GMT
The many snowbirds I know do not have two homes that can be occupied year round. And I’m sure many don’t have the income to pay for a third short term place for six months, in addition to paying for snow shovelling as you suggest. They need to find somewhere local and stay in place, not business as usual. Why put themselves at risk, especially if they are coming to Florida. Um... so do you grow money on trees that you could maybe donate to these people? Are there are lot of people you know that can afford to carry a six or seven month rental expense on top of paying for two other homes, while on a fixed income? Perhaps you’d like to take in a couple of old people into your home. To be clear, I know different kinds of snow birds. There are the ones like my sister’s husband’s family, and parents of some of my friends: they have homes here year round, and go to Florida or South Carolina for a few months in the winter to get away. None of these people that I know personally are travelling. They’re generally semi-retired and do have a place to stay here. The other snow birds are like my grandmother or the many many people I know from seasonal trailer parks: they have a fixed income and spend April - October living in a camper trailer. My mom has a friend who’s ex husband is also in this position. They simply do not have the money to rent a third home for half the year. And they can’t stay in their trailers because they aren’t winterized. Have you ever tried looking for a place to rent for six months? Ha! It’s not that easy. And have you ever tried taking on the expense of a third home with no additional income or ability to work? My grandmother is fortunate that she can live with my aunt, but I’m not sure what she would have done if my aunt didn’t have an accessible first floor bedroom for her. |
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Post by aj2hall on Jan 2, 2021 14:49:15 GMT
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Post by whipea on Jan 2, 2021 14:51:00 GMT
That situation doesn't change the fact that their choice to live in two places may impact another community negatively in this pandemic. It is just a fact. Perhaps they are not choosing to be selfish because one of the homes is uninhabitable, but that doesn't change the impact of traveling to a more populated area with higher virus transmission rates. so what is the solution then? I honestly don’t see what the big deal is — they can be just as safe in their winter home as they were here in their summer home. I have huge issues with people travelling for fun and vacation but these people are going to their second home. No disrespect but aside from transmission the problem is the burden on the health care system. Again, most seasonal residents are not young and spry and if they do get COVID, have accidents or other medical issues and it puts a stain on healthcare.
For example, health care workers are exposed to COVID so they are quarantined or even positive resulting in staff shortages. I fractured my leg almost a month ago and as a result of the shortages I had to wait two weeks just to get an MRI. Then had to wait over a week after that to see a doctor. They apologized indicating they are overwhelmed due to the shortage of workers and the influx of seasonal people.
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Post by Basket1lady on Jan 2, 2021 14:53:08 GMT
I get what you all are saying. I really do. I really struggled with what to advise my parents to do. Other than gas and a rest side stop, my parents aren’t interacting with anyone. They plan to drive straight through and just get to their cottage. They should be vaccinated by March. If so, aren’t they the ones who should be working to restart the economy? Especially the tourist business which has been hit so hard. The reality is that people are out of savings. We are going to see people lose their homes and businesses in drives very soon. Not just those who were operating on the edge, but those who had stable businesses, saved for a rainy day, and had a plan for a lean year. If someone has been vaccinated, I’m praying they would be part of the solution and not part of the problem. Until a huge portion of the population can be vaccinated, restarting the economy by opening things up will only continue to spread the virus and kill people. Period. This is excellent writing that lays out what year 2 really looks like: www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/12/pandemic-year-two/617528/Thanks! That is a really great article. Long (very long!) but it covered so much. One thing that stood out to me was discussing why less developed countries seem to be doing better with their numbers. I’d assumed that it was because the numbers were underreported because of the lack of medical care. It was an interesting perspective to think that it may be because the population is so used to containing an outbreak of illness. I don’t think we should be reopening everything. But I do believe that those vaccinated can help with the restart. I do believe that masks, distancing, and exposure is still important, even for the vaccinated. |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Jan 2, 2021 14:53:39 GMT
And where do all the snowbirds think they will be getting their second shot? They do have to present their card to document they got the first shot and which one?
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Post by SockMonkey on Jan 2, 2021 14:55:59 GMT
And where do all the snowbirds think they will be getting their second shot? They do have to present their card to document they got the first shot and which one? Right! It's not mix & match. 🙄 I feel like we'll have a lot of single dose vaccinations in this situation, in which case I think they have to start ALL OVER, which means more doses used. And I KNOW snowbirds. My in-laws would always leave now and stay in Florida for 6-8 weeks. They're not going this year! Because it's a pandemic and it's not the right thing to do! |
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Post by aj2hall on Jan 2, 2021 14:56:28 GMT
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ashley
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,400
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Post by ashley on Jan 2, 2021 14:56:34 GMT
And where do all the snowbirds think they will be getting their second shot? They do have to present their card to document they got the first shot and which one? None here have received a first one, so I assume they’d get it when they come back home unless they have it covered in their winter home health insurance (I have no idea how that works or if it is even a possibility) |
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ashley
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,400
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Post by ashley on Jan 2, 2021 14:57:20 GMT
And where do all the snowbirds think they will be getting their second shot? They do have to present their card to document they got the first shot and which one? Right! It's not mix & match. 🙄 I feel like we'll have a lot of single dose vaccinations in this situation, in which case I think they have to start ALL OVER, which means more doses used. And I KNOW snowbirds. My in-laws would always leave now and stay in Florida for 6-8 weeks. They're not going this year! Because it's a pandemic and it's not the right thing to do! 6-8!weeks is very different than not having a home for six months. |
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pilcas
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,983
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Post by pilcas on Jan 2, 2021 15:02:43 GMT
They need to find somewhere local and stay in place, not business as usual. Why put themselves at risk, especially if they are coming to Florida. Um... so do you grow money on trees that you could maybe donate to these people? Are there are lot of people you know that can afford to carry a six or seven month rental expense on top of paying for two other homes, while on a fixed income? Perhaps you’d like to take in a couple of old people into your home. To be clear, I know different kinds of snow birds. There are the ones like my sister’s husband’s family, and parents of some of my friends: they have homes here year round, and go to Florida or South Carolina for a few months in the winter to get away. None of these people that I know personally are travelling. They’re generally semi-retired and do have a place to stay here. The other snow birds are like my grandmother or the many many people I know from seasonal trailer parks: they have a fixed income and spend April - October living in a camper trailer. My mom has a friend who’s ex husband is also in this position. They simply do not have the money to rent a third home for half the year. And they can’t stay in their trailers because they aren’t winterized. Have you ever tried looking for a place to rent for six months? Ha! It’s not that easy. And have you ever tried taking on the expense of a third home with no additional income or ability to work? My grandmother is fortunate that she can live with my aunt, but I’m not sure what she would have done if my aunt didn’t have an accessible first floor bedroom for her. I didn’t know living in camper trailers was a thing here in the Northeast. I live in NYC, and am not trying to be snarky, I just don’t know of anyone who lives in a trailer. I do know people who rent in Fla. or have condos there. |
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Deleted
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Jun 30, 2024 19:01:28 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2021 15:03:21 GMT
I think if you replace the term "snowbirds" with "brown people" it would be a more worthy discussion. Haven't we here in the U.S. decided that resident status should not factor into healthcare?
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