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Post by jennifercw on Jan 28, 2022 18:43:36 GMT
Fair point in many cases. Except in this case we're not talking about wearing pants when all the other women are wearing dresses. When the social norm is "we wear masks, not because it is required, but because we have determined at this time it is a way to show care for one another" - standing out is not a good thing. I know there is no convincing you on this particular point - everyone on this board knows quite well how you feel about the whole thing!  Happy to agree to disagree. We can definitely agree to disagree, but you were asking what those people are thinking and I was just answering. It would literally not occur to me that people would be pissy I didn’t have a mask on in a place where it’s not required. It wouldn’t occur to me that a mask is a “social norm” anywhere. I would never feel awkward about not wearing one. Well technically "This is really more of a vent than an actual question." But I've been around here long enough to know that's NOT how any of this works!! I read your first two posts as more about what you would DO, rather than what you THINK. (what is going through your head) So it didn't sound like you were answering what I was theoretically asking. You bringing up the social norm aspect is interesting, because that really was at the heart of my OP. It's not about following/not following instructions on a sign and getting hung up on "required" vs. "requested", but about noticing and adapting to cues in the room around us. It's also interesting to me that your 1st post speculates "Maybe they’re from a different are where mask wearing isn’t a “social norm.” but in this one "It wouldn’t occur to me that a mask is a “social norm” anywhere". Anyway - judging from this post - oblivious seems like an appropriate word for what might be going (or not going) through peoples heads. Thanks! |
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Post by Linda on Jan 28, 2022 18:54:25 GMT
It would literally not occur to me that people would be pissy I didn’t have a mask on in a place where it’s not required. It wouldn’t occur to me that a mask is a “social norm” anywhere. I would never feel awkward about not wearing one. You've been reading and responding on this board for the entire pandemic so far and none of this would even cross your mind? That's ...hard to believe. I get what you're saying about your area - I live in a similar area where mask wearing is NOT the norm. And I'm pretty clear on what the folks around me think of masks - they share it loud and clear - masks make you sick, they don't help anyway, if you're scared - wear a mask but I'm not scared, and so on.... You know what I think of my community? I think it's really sad that I live in an area where people don't care about each other, aren't willing to deal with the smallest inconvenience to help their neighbours, care more about their freedoms/rights than about their health and that of their neighbours. I think it doesn't seem much like a community and that's a real shame. |
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maryannscraps
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,803
Aug 28, 2017 12:51:28 GMT
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Post by maryannscraps on Jan 28, 2022 19:02:47 GMT
I think, there's another one without any skill in critical thinking.
Masks are very effective against both transmitting and being infected with the virus. And the math works -- if your mask is only 50% effective and the person you're with has one that's 50% effective, you've now both lowered your risk of infection by 75% by wearing them. Add in vaccines, boosters, and hand washing, and you have lowered your risk to very reasonable levels. Scientific evidence. Not fear. But there seem to be a lot of people who are pretty ignorant about what scientific evidence and math entail.
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mamapeaah
Full Member
Posts: 326
Sept 30, 2021 4:39:02 GMT
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Post by mamapeaah on Jan 28, 2022 19:09:13 GMT
Well, I am the one who said it was a social norm....and this is just my perspective based on my experience and where I live.
So where I live we have a mask mandate still in effect. The stores require them and the schools require them.
Now, I work in a very small office of maybe 6 people and I have my own office and most people have their own office or space, so we don't wear it to work.
But when I go shopping, almost everyone is wearing them. There will sometimes be one or two people not wearing them but its a minority.
Kids at school are required to wear them, and my kids keep track of that and let me know when I need to reorder etc.
NOW, I have driven to other states where we will stop at the gas station and literally no one is wearing them.
To me, it feels like a different world and my teenagers will start making comments to people or even just out loud to themselves about it and I have to ask them to stop and mind their own business.
So it's not like I am frequenting bars or anything I am just going to work, shopping, seeing friends, going to the gym.
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mamapeaah
Full Member
Posts: 326
Sept 30, 2021 4:39:02 GMT
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Post by mamapeaah on Jan 28, 2022 19:12:30 GMT
I went to a school meeting with about 25 kids and parents. We were asked to wear masks when called and there were signs on the door. Maybe 4 or 5 people came in and didn't wear a mask. The lady in charge handed them some booklets she had on hand about illiteracy and classes they could take. When they took offense at that she said the notice she sent out had masks required or they could do zoom meetings. And that there were also signs on the door. They didn't acknowledge either of those so she thought they were illiterates. She did get some blowback but the principal backed her up, since it was a voluntary meeting that we didn't need to attend. If I attended your meeting I'd probably speak loudly about how sad it is that people are unable to read in this day and age. Jennifer Whoa, this lady is amazing! |
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Post by jennifercw on Jan 28, 2022 20:10:25 GMT
Well, I am the one who said it was a social norm....and this is just my perspective based on my experience and where I live. So where I live we have a mask mandate still in effect. The stores require them and the schools require them. Now, I work in a very small office of maybe 6 people and I have my own office and most people have their own office or space, so we don't wear it to work. But when I go shopping, almost everyone is wearing them. There will sometimes be one or two people not wearing them but its a minority. Kids at school are required to wear them, and my kids keep track of that and let me know when I need to reorder etc. NOW, I have driven to other states where we will stop at the gas station and literally no one is wearing them. To me, it feels like a different world and my teenagers will start making comments to people or even just out loud to themselves about it and I have to ask them to stop and mind their own business. So it's not like I am frequenting bars or anything I am just going to work, shopping, seeing friends, going to the gym. My apologies - somehow I missed that it was you that originally brought up the "social norm" aspect. (which seems to make "oblivious" even more appropriate) You are exactly right. Regardless of mandates or lack of mandates, I think the social norm can be very different from community to community, or even among individual locations in a community. Masks were universally worn at my primary care physician's office and when I went for my routine mammogram recently, but only ONE other person was wearing a mask in my ENT's office the other day. I don't have kids in school here anymore but they have NEVER been mandated in the local school system and from what I've seen not many wear them anymore. Stores seem to be 50/50. When we stopped at a rest stop in one state on our Christmas travels - almost everyone was masked. A couple states away, we were the only ones masked. I wouldn’t have friends who are “really really” against mask wearing because I’m intolerant of blatant and selfish disregard of others and being willfully ignorant. Thank goodness we live in an area where most people care enough to wear masks. Which means people in many churches around here would be attending by zoom or wear masks. Are there exceptions? Absolutely! But the churches somewhat reflect the population. The pandemic has helped eliminate locations I’d not want to visit or retire to. You've been reading and responding on this board for the entire pandemic so far and none of this would even cross your mind? That's ...hard to believe. I get what you're saying about your area - I live in a similar area where mask wearing is NOT the norm. And I'm pretty clear on what the folks around me think of masks - they share it loud and clear - masks make you sick, they don't help anyway, if you're scared - wear a mask but I'm not scared, and so on.... You know what I think of my community? I think it's really sad that I live in an area where people don't care about each other, aren't willing to deal with the smallest inconvenience to help their neighbours, care more about their freedoms/rights than about their health and that of their neighbours. I think it doesn't seem much like a community and that's a real shame. Interestingly, mask wearing does not really seem to be common in the community around the church. But I'm glad we have decided to remain on the more cautious side of the spectrum. The church did drop masks for a time when the community case rate was low. And then brought them back when Omicron starting spreading unchecked. Most everyone currently wears one. |
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Post by myshelly on Jan 28, 2022 20:21:23 GMT
It would literally not occur to me that people would be pissy I didn’t have a mask on in a place where it’s not required. It wouldn’t occur to me that a mask is a “social norm” anywhere. I would never feel awkward about not wearing one. You've been reading and responding on this board for the entire pandemic so far and none of this would even cross your mind? That's ...hard to believe. I get what you're saying about your area - I live in a similar area where mask wearing is NOT the norm. And I'm pretty clear on what the folks around me think of masks - they share it loud and clear - masks make you sick, they don't help anyway, if you're scared - wear a mask but I'm not scared, and so on.... You know what I think of my community? I think it's really sad that I live in an area where people don't care about each other, aren't willing to deal with the smallest inconvenience to help their neighbours, care more about their freedoms/rights than about their health and that of their neighbours. I think it doesn't seem much like a community and that's a real shame. This board is…not very reflective of the things I encounter in real life. |
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Post by myshelly on Jan 28, 2022 20:22:27 GMT
I’ve never really had a problem with standing out or being different 🤷🏻‍♀️ When it comes to masks, all I’m looking at is, is it required. If there wasn’t notification that it was required, I wouldn’t think twice or feel awkward about not putting one on regardless of what other people are doing. Would you think twice if you found out you were an asymptomatic carrier who put someone in the hospital or helped kill them? Not knowing is a selfish luxury. And I’m out. Yesterday I got so worked up about vaccinated people in some areas of the country not getting needed surgeries or medical care because of anti-vaxxers clogging hospitals, that my head exploded. Only one explosion allowed per week. 💥 If people are worried about it, they can get an N95 and wear that. Then they don’t have to worry about or rely on the actions of others. Seems win/win to me. |
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Post by Linda on Jan 28, 2022 20:39:25 GMT
If people are worried about it, they can get an N95 and wear that. Then they don’t have to worry about or rely on the actions of others. Seems win/win to me. and this? this is exactly why my daughter is wearing a N95 to school everyday |
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Post by littlemama on Jan 28, 2022 21:42:12 GMT
Well, they certainly arent behaving in a Christian manner. Love thy neighbor and all that.
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mamapeaah
Full Member
Posts: 326
Sept 30, 2021 4:39:02 GMT
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Post by mamapeaah on Jan 28, 2022 22:07:07 GMT
Well, they certainly aren't behaving in a Christian manner. Love thy neighbor and all that. They are also not being good Satanist, one of our tenets is that "Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs" |
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Post by cindosha on Jan 28, 2022 22:26:30 GMT
I think, there's another one without any skill in critical thinking. Masks are very effective against both transmitting and being infected with the virus. And the math works -- if your mask is only 50% effective and the person you're with has one that's 50% effective, you've now both lowered your risk of infection by 75% by wearing them. Add in vaccines, boosters, and hand washing, and you have lowered your risk to very reasonable levels. Scientific evidence. Not fear. But there seem to be a lot of people who are pretty ignorant about what scientific evidence and math entail. 50% effective is not effective at all. So masks are not very effective if it’s only 50% effective. You will still have a 50% chance of getting it. I don’t understand your math at all. people are going to wear one if they want to wear one. If people don’t want to wear one they aren’t going to wear one. If I am fully vaxed and still wear a mask and I can still get the virus, then what is the big deal. I’m not going to have a higher chance of getting it if someone in the same room as me who is vaxed doesn’t have a mask on. Thousands and thousands and THOUSANDS of people who are fully vaxed and wear masks religiously still get the virus. Clearly the virus is still skirting the precautions. Everyone, ABSOLUTELY EVERYONE will eventually get some form of covid. No matter what you do. |
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Gem Girl
Pearl Clutcher
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Posts: 2,686
Jun 29, 2014 19:29:52 GMT
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Post by Gem Girl on Jan 28, 2022 22:42:21 GMT
If everyone had been decent enough from the start to wear a mask whenever in public and get vaccinated if able to, this whole thing could have been nipped in the bud quickly.
However, since some took on TFG's spoiled child stance (that he took on only to allow him to pretend this wasn't an issue, and possibly one that he could have prevented, while he ran for office), we're now enduring literally years of avoidable sickness, death, & massive inconveniences.
Seems his admirers are as selfish as he is.
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grammanisi
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,741 
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Post by grammanisi on Jan 28, 2022 22:55:10 GMT
I would look around to see if my sister was one not wearing a mask
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Post by maryland on Jan 28, 2022 22:56:35 GMT
I’ve never really had a problem with standing out or being different 🤷🏻‍♀️ When it comes to masks, all I’m looking at is, is it required. If there wasn’t notification that it was required, I wouldn’t think twice or feel awkward about not putting one on regardless of what other people are doing. Would you think twice if you found out you were an asymptomatic carrier who put someone in the hospital or helped kill them? Not knowing is a selfish luxury. And I’m out. Yesterday I got so worked up about vaccinated people in some areas of the country not getting needed surgeries or medical care because of anti-vaxxers clogging hospitals, that my head exploded. Only one explosion allowed per week. 💥 I agree with you! If they don't want to get vaccinated, then stay out of the hospital. Why would they think vaccine is dangerous, but all the covid treatments, ventilators, etc. is perfectly safe? I hate that people can't have much needed surgeries because of the unvaccinated. It's not fair because it would have been easy to avoid if they just got the vaccine. It really doesn't hurt, and I am a baby about shots. |
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Post by cindosha on Jan 28, 2022 23:05:54 GMT
If everyone had been decent enough from the start to wear a mask whenever in public and get vaccinated if able to, this whole thing could have been nipped in the bud quickly. However, since some took on TFG's spoiled child stance (that he took on only to allow him to pretend this wasn't an issue, and possibly one that he could have prevented, while he ran for office), we're now enduring literally years of avoidable sickness, death, & massive inconveniences. Seems his admirers are as selfish as he is. Thats bullshit. There was nothing avoidable about it. There was no vax available for a whole year. Seems his admirers are as selfish as he is.
🤣🤣🤣🤣 |
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maryannscraps
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,803
Aug 28, 2017 12:51:28 GMT
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Post by maryannscraps on Jan 28, 2022 23:17:31 GMT
I think, there's another one without any skill in critical thinking. Masks are very effective against both transmitting and being infected with the virus. And the math works -- if your mask is only 50% effective and the person you're with has one that's 50% effective, you've now both lowered your risk of infection by 75% by wearing them. Add in vaccines, boosters, and hand washing, and you have lowered your risk to very reasonable levels. Scientific evidence. Not fear. But there seem to be a lot of people who are pretty ignorant about what scientific evidence and math entail. 50% effective is not effective at all. So masks are not very effective if it’s only 50% effective. You will still have a 50% chance of getting it. I don’t understand your math at all. people are going to wear one if they want to wear one. If people don’t want to wear one they aren’t going to wear one. If I am fully vaxed and still wear a mask and I can still get the virus, then what is the big deal. I’m not going to have a higher chance of getting it if someone in the same room as me who is vaxed doesn’t have a mask on. Thousands and thousands and THOUSANDS of people who are fully vaxed and wear masks religiously still get the virus.  Clearly the virus is still skirting the precautions. Everyone, ABSOLUTELY EVERYONE will eventually get some form of covid. No matter what you do. If both of you wear the 50% effective masks, then the effectiveness = 1- (.5 x .5) = .75 = 75%. If only you wear the mask, you are protected 50% and the other person is protected 50% from you. |
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Gem Girl
Pearl Clutcher
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Posts: 2,686
Jun 29, 2014 19:29:52 GMT
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Post by Gem Girl on Jan 28, 2022 23:22:44 GMT
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PLurker
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,840
Location: Behind the Cheddar Curtain
Jun 28, 2014 3:48:49 GMT
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Post by PLurker on Jan 28, 2022 23:23:26 GMT
I’ve never really had a problem with standing out or being different 🤷🏻‍♀️ When it comes to masks, all I’m looking at is, is it required. If there wasn’t notification that it was required, I wouldn’t think twice or feel awkward about not putting one on regardless of what other people are doing. Speaks volumes (bolded): only thinking how it affects me and if I have to. To heck with anyone around who are high risk (or not) and could be endangering. If people are worried about it, they can get an N95 and wear that. Then they don’t have to worry about or rely on the actions of others. Seems win/win to me. Masks are a two way street, you know that right?! To keep things "in" as well as "out". So yes, we do still have worry about or rely on the actions of others. Seems like one-way selfish win to me. You are literally devaluing high risk lives and actually anyone else around you. Should I take your word for my safety or the medical team that literally removed and replaced my organs? They tell me being among the unvaxed and/or maskless isn't a safe place for me to be. But I certainly should take your word for it instead, right? |
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Post by cindosha on Jan 28, 2022 23:26:19 GMT
50% effective is not effective at all. So masks are not very effective if it’s only 50% effective. You will still have a 50% chance of getting it. I don’t understand your math at all. people are going to wear one if they want to wear one. If people don’t want to wear one they aren’t going to wear one. If I am fully vaxed and still wear a mask and I can still get the virus, then what is the big deal. I’m not going to have a higher chance of getting it if someone in the same room as me who is vaxed doesn’t have a mask on. Thousands and thousands and THOUSANDS of people who are fully vaxed and wear masks religiously still get the virus.  Clearly the virus is still skirting the precautions. Everyone, ABSOLUTELY EVERYONE will eventually get some form of covid. No matter what you do. If both of you wear the 50% effective masks, then the effectiveness = 1- (.5 x .5) = .75 = 75%. If only you wear the mask, you are protected 50% and the other person is protected 50% from you. So what…you are still vulnerable. Even if it is 25%. And how do you know that you aren’t being infected by someone who is vaxed and masked. It really makes no difference. |
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Post by cindosha on Jan 28, 2022 23:29:30 GMT
I’ve never really had a problem with standing out or being different 🤷🏻‍♀️ When it comes to masks, all I’m looking at is, is it required. If there wasn’t notification that it was required, I wouldn’t think twice or feel awkward about not putting one on regardless of what other people are doing. Speaks volumes (bolded): only thinking how it affects me and if I have to. To heck with anyone around who are high risk (or not) and could be endangering. If people are worried about it, they can get an N95 and wear that. Then they don’t have to worry about or rely on the actions of others. Seems win/win to me. Masks are a two way street, you know that right?! To keep things "in" as well as "out". So yes, we do still have worry about or rely on the actions of others.  Seems like one-way selfish win to me.  You are literally devaluing high risk lives and actually anyone else around you. You literally have no idea if someone wearing a mask and is vaxed is infecting you. Because vax and mask neither fully protect you or prevent you from spreading it to someone else. |
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Gem Girl
Pearl Clutcher
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Posts: 2,686
Jun 29, 2014 19:29:52 GMT
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Post by Gem Girl on Jan 28, 2022 23:31:56 GMT
So what…you are still vulnerable. Even if it is 25%. And how do you know that you aren’t being infected by someone who is vaxed and masked. It really makes no difference.
This is illogical. You could still die in a car accident while wearing a seat belt, so you shouldn't wear one, then? Sigh. I just can't even with this kind of nonsense anymore.
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Post by cindosha on Jan 28, 2022 23:33:34 GMT
So what…you are still vulnerable. Even if it is 25%. And how do you know that you aren’t being infected by someone who is vaxed and masked. It really makes no difference.
This is illogical. You could still die in a car accident while wearing a seat belt, so you shouldn't wear one, then? Sigh. I just can't even with this kind of nonsense anymore. My wearing a seatbelt doesn’t protect you from death. |
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Gem Girl
Pearl Clutcher
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Posts: 2,686
Jun 29, 2014 19:29:52 GMT
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Post by Gem Girl on Jan 28, 2022 23:42:03 GMT
So what…you are still vulnerable. Even if it is 25%. And how do you know that you aren’t being infected by someone who is vaxed and masked. It really makes no difference.
This is illogical. You could still die in a car accident while wearing a seat belt, so you shouldn't wear one, then? Sigh. I just can't even with this kind of nonsense anymore. My wearing a seatbelt doesn’t protect you from death. That non-sequitur is deliberately disingenuous. If you really think doing anything to protect yourself is worthless because it's not foolproof, you might as well walk in front of moving trains. I'm sorry that you're feeling so hopeless. |
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Post by myshelly on Jan 28, 2022 23:47:37 GMT
I’ve never really had a problem with standing out or being different 🤷🏻‍♀️ When it comes to masks, all I’m looking at is, is it required. If there wasn’t notification that it was required, I wouldn’t think twice or feel awkward about not putting one on regardless of what other people are doing. Speaks volumes (bolded): only thinking how it affects me and if I have to. To heck with anyone around who are high risk (or not) and could be endangering. If people are worried about it, they can get an N95 and wear that. Then they don’t have to worry about or rely on the actions of others. Seems win/win to me. Masks are a two way street, you know that right?! To keep things "in" as well as "out". So yes, we do still have worry about or rely on the actions of others.  Seems like one-way selfish win to me.  You are literally devaluing high risk lives and actually anyone else around you. Should I take your word for my safety or the medical team that literally removed and replaced my organs? They tell me being among the unvaxed and/or maskless isn't a safe place for me to be. But I certainly should take your word for it instead, right? That’s not what I have seen and read about n95s. |
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maryannscraps
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,803
Aug 28, 2017 12:51:28 GMT
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Post by maryannscraps on Jan 28, 2022 23:55:28 GMT
Speaks volumes (bolded): only thinking how it affects me and if I have to. To heck with anyone around who are high risk (or not) and could be endangering. Masks are a two way street, you know that right?! To keep things "in" as well as "out". So yes, we do still have worry about or rely on the actions of others.  Seems like one-way selfish win to me.  You are literally devaluing high risk lives and actually anyone else around you. You literally have no idea if someone wearing a mask and is vaxed is infecting you. Because vax and mask neither fully protect you or prevent you from spreading it to someone else. It’s a matter of risk assessment. By wearing a mask, getting vaccinated, washing your hands, social distancing, etc. you are mitigating the risk. Can you reduce the risk to zero? No. But you can do what works for protection. That’s how medicine works. Weighing risks. Everyone doing their part reduces the risk to all. I don’t think a lot of people really understand how risk mitigation works. |
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Post by cindosha on Jan 28, 2022 23:55:33 GMT
My wearing a seatbelt doesn’t protect you from death. That non-sequitur is deliberately disingenuous. If you really think doing anything to protect yourself is worthless because it's not foolproof, you might as well walk in front of moving trains. I'm sorry that you're feeling so hopeless. Nope it’s absolutely true and logical. I’m sorry that you don’t get it. And sorry your analogy didn’t work. |
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purplebee
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,801
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Post by purplebee on Jan 28, 2022 23:57:10 GMT
So what…you are still vulnerable. Even if it is 25%. And how do you know that you aren’t being infected by someone who is vaxed and masked. It really makes no difference.
This is illogical. You could still die in a car accident while wearing a seat belt, so you shouldn't wear one, then? Sigh. I just can't even with this kind of nonsense My wearing a seatbelt doesn’t protect you from death. But your wearing a mask DOES protect me from infection from COVID, which I have heard, in case you have not, can potentially cause death. |
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Post by cindosha on Jan 28, 2022 23:59:07 GMT
You literally have no idea if someone wearing a mask and is vaxed is infecting you. Because vax and mask neither fully protect you or prevent you from spreading it to someone else. It’s a matter of risk assessment. By wearing a mask, getting vaccinated, washing your hands, social distancing, etc. you are mitigating the risk. Can you reduce the risk to zero? No. But you can do what works for protection. That’s how medicine works. Weighing risks. Everyone doing their part reduces the risk to all. I don’t think a lot of people really understand how risk mitigation works. Risk mitigation isn’t absolute. It’s not even close to absolute. Way too many factors to interfere with it. |
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Post by cindosha on Jan 29, 2022 0:00:26 GMT
My wearing a seatbelt doesn’t protect you from death. But your wearing a mask DOES protect me from infection from COVID, which I have heard, in case you have not, can potentially cause death. No it doesn’t. Because if it did, nobody wearing a mask would ever get Covid. |
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Happy to agree to disagree.
