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Post by cindosha on Sept 7, 2022 12:41:24 GMT
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Post by cindosha on Sept 7, 2022 12:43:47 GMT
So, you are ok with 160,000 homeless living in the streets, panhandling, taking drugs and crapping in the streets? I wouldn't be if it were my state. I would try and find a solution to the problem, which is what your governor should be doing instead of ignoring it. To make EV's a priority over this crisis is just crazy!!! It is possible for those in power to work on more than one thing at once if they’re so inclined. except they aren't...and if they seem to be, it's only gotten worse not better. But hey, lets make electric vehicles a top priority...
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Post by gar on Sept 7, 2022 12:50:33 GMT
It is possible for those in power to work on more than one thing at once if they’re so inclined. except they aren't...and if they seem to be, it's only gotten worse not better. But hey, lets make electric vehicles a top priority... There will always be other things that need urgent attention but the planet won’t wait.
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pantsonfire
Pearl Clutcher
Take a step back, evaluate what is important, and enjoy your life with those who you love.
Posts: 4,750
Jun 19, 2022 16:48:04 GMT
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Post by pantsonfire on Sept 7, 2022 12:51:57 GMT
What is that old saying, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink." You can provide housing and shelter, but you can't make them use it. Lot of homeless don't want to use shelters that come with strings attached. They either have to leave all their stuff behind, give up their pets, etc. Someone locally was trying to help one guy. He had 10 shopping carts of stuff. They found a place for him, but he did not want to give up his stuff. Just like EVs, one size/type of shelter does not fit all. So, you are ok with 160,000 homeless living in the streets, panhandling, taking drugs and crapping in the streets? I wouldn't be if it were my state. I would try and find a solution to the problem, which is what your governor should be doing instead of ignoring it. To make EV's a priority over this crisis is just crazy!!! We are. And unfortunately our governor shot down a bill that would allow safe drug places. Majority of the unhoused in my area choose to be. I believe the last count was like 89%. The other 11% were in a tough spot and working to get back into a home. They work with city and county programs. The 89% want drugs. They have mental health disabilities and because our state has horrible mental health care, they have no treatment. They won't give up their items and lifestyle to have a roof over their head. We can't force them. Because Reagan dismantled the facilities, They were put on the street with no help. And there still isn't help. Many of these people need constant supervision and treatment. Until a bill passes for that, they remain on the street. My city is converting 2 older single story motels into housing. I hope it helps many of those who need help. But again we can't force them off the street. We can't force them to get clean.
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Post by cindosha on Sept 7, 2022 13:19:54 GMT
So, you are ok with 160,000 homeless living in the streets, panhandling, taking drugs and crapping in the streets? I wouldn't be if it were my state. I would try and find a solution to the problem, which is what your governor should be doing instead of ignoring it. To make EV's a priority over this crisis is just crazy!!! We are. And unfortunately our governor shot down a bill that would allow safe drug places. Majority of the unhoused in my area choose to be. I believe the last count was like 89%. The other 11% were in a tough spot and working to get back into a home. They work with city and county programs. The 89% want drugs. They have mental health disabilities and because our state has horrible mental health care, they have no treatment. They won't give up their items and lifestyle to have a roof over their head. We can't force them. Because Reagan dismantled the facilities, They were put on the street with no help. And there still isn't help. Many of these people need constant supervision and treatment. Until a bill passes for that, they remain on the street. My city is converting 2 older single story motels into housing. I hope it helps many of those who need help. But again we can't force them off the street. We can't force them to get clean. It sounds like cali is just throwing up their arms and saying "oh well, all of you businesses, people who live near homeless camps and innocent people who are victimized by the homeless, you're screwed because we can't fix this. That's very sad. Governor Brown had a hand in the problem too... calmatters.org/commentary/2019/03/hard-truths-about-deinstitutionalization-then-and-now/
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pantsonfire
Pearl Clutcher
Take a step back, evaluate what is important, and enjoy your life with those who you love.
Posts: 4,750
Jun 19, 2022 16:48:04 GMT
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Post by pantsonfire on Sept 7, 2022 13:38:39 GMT
A big part of the problem is wording, funding, and procedures.
Unhoused need an address to access multiple programs.
Um...how exactly does that work. They are unhoused. No home. No permanent address.
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pantsonfire
Pearl Clutcher
Take a step back, evaluate what is important, and enjoy your life with those who you love.
Posts: 4,750
Jun 19, 2022 16:48:04 GMT
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Post by pantsonfire on Sept 7, 2022 13:39:17 GMT
We are. And unfortunately our governor shot down a bill that would allow safe drug places. Majority of the unhoused in my area choose to be. I believe the last count was like 89%. The other 11% were in a tough spot and working to get back into a home. They work with city and county programs. The 89% want drugs. They have mental health disabilities and because our state has horrible mental health care, they have no treatment. They won't give up their items and lifestyle to have a roof over their head. We can't force them. Because Reagan dismantled the facilities, They were put on the street with no help. And there still isn't help. Many of these people need constant supervision and treatment. Until a bill passes for that, they remain on the street. My city is converting 2 older single story motels into housing. I hope it helps many of those who need help. But again we can't force them off the street. We can't force them to get clean. It sounds like cali is just throwing up their arms and saying "oh well, all of you businesses, people who live near homeless camps and innocent people who are victimized by the homeless, you're screwed because we can't fix this. That's very sad. Governor Brown had a hand in the problem too... calmatters.org/commentary/2019/03/hard-truths-about-deinstitutionalization-then-and-now/So then you are okay with the government taking you in and forcing you to live in a place you don't want to be in? Got it.
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kibblesandbits
Pearl Clutcher
At the corner of Awesome and Bombdiggity
Posts: 3,305
Aug 13, 2016 13:47:39 GMT
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Post by kibblesandbits on Sept 7, 2022 13:50:14 GMT
So then you are okay with the government taking you in and forcing you to live in a place you don't want to be in? Got it. hahahaha . . . kinda like . . . jail? As a society, we don't seem to have a problem with that. We have the highest incarceration rate in the entire world, it seems. One of my siblings lives in Portland, and a "unhoused" camp has populated near their home. It is RIDICULOUS what they have to put up with. Needles, trash, excrement, public nudity and sexual activity, petty theft and property damage, the list goes on and on. City of Portland/PD does NOTHING. And now, of course, my sibling can't easily sell their home either because of the new "neighbors".
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Post by katlady on Sept 7, 2022 13:56:29 GMT
What is that old saying, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink." You can provide housing and shelter, but you can't make them use it. Lot of homeless don't want to use shelters that come with strings attached. They either have to leave all their stuff behind, give up their pets, etc. Someone locally was trying to help one guy. He had 10 shopping carts of stuff. They found a place for him, but he did not want to give up his stuff. Just like EVs, one size/type of shelter does not fit all. So, you are ok with 160,000 homeless living in the streets, panhandling, taking drugs and crapping in the streets? I wouldn't be if it were my state. I would try and find a solution to the problem, which is what your governor should be doing instead of ignoring it. To make EV's a priority over this crisis is just crazy!!! Did I say I was ok with this? I see them everyday. The cities are trying to do something, but I live in an area that they want to come to. Hey, who wouldn’t want to live by the beach. pantsonfire was correct in her response above. You can’t force people to live somewhere. You want a solution. Ok, here is one. Why don’t we send the ones from out of state back home. That will get rid of probably half of our homeless population. Yes, I am being facetious. Homelessness is very complicated due to drugs, alcohol, mental issues, etc. And then you have those who are truly down on their luck and just trying to survive.
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kibblesandbits
Pearl Clutcher
At the corner of Awesome and Bombdiggity
Posts: 3,305
Aug 13, 2016 13:47:39 GMT
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Post by kibblesandbits on Sept 7, 2022 13:57:24 GMT
Can I also throw in that most places no longer allow ANY natural gas appliances? Yep, that's right- EVERYTHING will be electric in almost all homes in CA. We think there's a power supply/grid problem now? Guess what- you haven't seen anything when EVERYTHING including the cars on the road have to be electric. WTF? "Most places" as in the rest of the US? Because here in the great midwest natural gas appliances are certainly a thing and there is no sign that they will be restricted. As an aside, I just love how California proclaims this kind of stuff and just hopes the rest of us follows along. How do you (California you) expect your vegetables and grains to be harvested? Cows milked? Produce transported? Airplanes launched and landed? Asian countries, Eastern European countries, and developing Southern Hemisphere countries are certainly not worried about destroying the planet. Hell, even our government isn't interested in climate change or else they wouldn't be purchasing gas guzzling gigantic armored vehicles by the dozen for higher ups in exalted positions. I'll care about the planet about the time our government does - really does. When they move to electric vehicles, stop using metric tons of paper, etc., quit waging war all over the fucking place, then I'll be right behind them.
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Post by mom2jnk on Sept 7, 2022 14:28:16 GMT
So is the final aim that everybody will have to buy an electric car eventually? What do they do about helicopters, airplanes, firetrucks, police cars, cruise ships, farm tractors, and other farm equipment, semi trucks that deliver goods across state lines,. That’s great, you drive from Tahoe to Los Angeles and only have to charge once and it only cost you two extra hours. What about everybody else that’s going that same route that has to charge on that same charging station. When everybody has electric cars everybody’s going to need to recharge them. How many charging stations do you think you can put on a city street or rural highway when you have as many cars and people in California as you already have. Electric car sounds good in theory, but what about every other service vehicle. So the police car runs out of juice. Can’t go help people. The ambulance runs out of juice and the fire truck runs out of juice you can’t help people. How do you life flight people in a Helicopter? Are they going to make electric airplanes and electric helicopters and electric jets? I can see road rage with people fighting over charging stations. I feel like this has gotten lost and I wanted to address it. No, the final aim is not that everyone would have to buy an electric car eventually or that all of these types of vehicles would become 100% electric. That is not plausible or even advisable. There are a host of other options in the pipeline and several even currently available. In my town, we have the first hydrogen powered mass transit busses in the nation. They literally "refuel" at the hydrogen fueling station at the bus terminal, similar to filling a gas tank. Green hydrogen is a potential future fuel source for a variety of larger applications, including semi tractor/trailers and farm equipment. There are also a wide variety of biofuels in development for use in air travel. These other alternatives will give us a range of options to fuel emergency vehicles too. You can't electrify an airplane or a cruise ship with current technology, obviously. I think that sometimes the media gets obsessed with just one solution and gets fixated upon it to the detriment of the important work that needs to be done to address climate change. So many issues regarding successfully addressing climate change are being presented as black and white, and only one option or solution, but this does not have to be the case, nor is it wise. We need all the shades of grey to be successful. We will need a variety of solutions across transportation, energy production, agriculture and food production, water management, infrastructure and housing, and industry.
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Post by femalebusiness on Sept 7, 2022 15:38:19 GMT
What is that old saying, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink." You can provide housing and shelter, but you can't make them use it. Lot of homeless don't want to use shelters that come with strings attached. They either have to leave all their stuff behind, give up their pets, etc. Someone locally was trying to help one guy. He had 10 shopping carts of stuff. They found a place for him, but he did not want to give up his stuff. Just like EVs, one size/type of shelter does not fit all. So, you are ok with 160,000 homeless living in the streets, panhandling, taking drugs and crapping in the streets? I wouldn't be if it were my state. I would try and find a solution to the problem, which is what your governor should be doing instead of ignoring it. To make EV's a priority over this crisis is just crazy!!! It's not your state so why don't you just shut the fuck up?
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Post by cindosha on Sept 7, 2022 15:57:45 GMT
So, you are ok with 160,000 homeless living in the streets, panhandling, taking drugs and crapping in the streets? I wouldn't be if it were my state. I would try and find a solution to the problem, which is what your governor should be doing instead of ignoring it. To make EV's a priority over this crisis is just crazy!!! It's not your state so why don't you just shut the fuck up? You sound pretty angry... Am I not supposed to have an opinion because I don't live in your state? EV's are going to be a part of everyone's life. There is nothing wrong with a differing view.
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Post by femalebusiness on Sept 7, 2022 16:10:00 GMT
I am angry that I have to scroll by your nonsense every fucking day. Yes, you can have your idiot opinions but go hang out with the other right wing nut jobs and share there. You know exactly zero about California. You are the one who always, always sounds like you are about to blow your stack and stroke out.
It is none of your fucking business what California does. Worry about whatever pathetic state that you are from.
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Post by cindosha on Sept 7, 2022 16:10:38 GMT
So is the final aim that everybody will have to buy an electric car eventually? What do they do about helicopters, airplanes, firetrucks, police cars, cruise ships, farm tractors, and other farm equipment, semi trucks that deliver goods across state lines,. That’s great, you drive from Tahoe to Los Angeles and only have to charge once and it only cost you two extra hours. What about everybody else that’s going that same route that has to charge on that same charging station. When everybody has electric cars everybody’s going to need to recharge them. How many charging stations do you think you can put on a city street or rural highway when you have as many cars and people in California as you already have. Electric car sounds good in theory, but what about every other service vehicle. So the police car runs out of juice. Can’t go help people. The ambulance runs out of juice and the fire truck runs out of juice you can’t help people. How do you life flight people in a Helicopter? Are they going to make electric airplanes and electric helicopters and electric jets? I can see road rage with people fighting over charging stations. I feel like this has gotten lost and I wanted to address it. No, the final aim is not that everyone would have to buy an electric car eventually or that all of these types of vehicles would become 100% electric. That is not plausible or even advisable. There are a host of other options in the pipeline and several even currently available. In my town, we have the first hydrogen powered mass transit busses in the nation. They literally "refuel" at the hydrogen fueling station at the bus terminal, similar to filling a gas tank. Green hydrogen is a potential future fuel source for a variety of larger applications, including semi tractor/trailers and farm equipment. There are also a wide variety of biofuels in development for use in air travel. These other alternatives will give us a range of options to fuel emergency vehicles too. You can't electrify an airplane or a cruise ship with current technology, obviously. I think that sometimes the media gets obsessed with just one solution and gets fixated upon it to the detriment of the important work that needs to be done to address climate change. So many issues regarding successfully addressing climate change are being presented as black and white, and only one option or solution, but this does not have to be the case, nor is it wise. We need all the shades of grey to be successful. We will need a variety of solutions across transportation, energy production, agriculture and food production, water management, infrastructure and housing, and industry. When things like this are rolled out by a politician, it all comes out very black and white. There is nothing wrong with finding out about how they intend to make this all work. In theory, electric vehicles are a great solution for large cities. Electric mass transit is great. But when they present it, people are going to want to know how it's ALL supposed to work and they should have answers, instead of everything being theoretical. In reality, many people do not live in large cities, lots and lots live in rural areas. Nobody has been talking about a solution for those that live rural and don't have access to mass transit or may not have access to charging stations near them. Politicians throw stuff out there before everything is thought through and people panic about how it's going to affect them.
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Post by cindosha on Sept 7, 2022 16:17:07 GMT
I am angry that I have to scroll by your nonsense every fucking day. Yes, you can have your idiot opinions but go hang out with the other right wing nut jobs and share there. You know exactly zero about California. You are the one who always, always sounds like you are about to blow your stack and stroke out. It is none of your fucking business what California does. Worry about whatever pathetic state that you are from. Well, I don't post every day, but I'm sorry my posts trigger you into such an angry state. It's quite apparent that according to you, I am not allowed to have my opinions. It's just a different viewpoint and valid questions. Just because i don't live in california doesn't mean I know nothing about your state. Like the inhabitants of 49 other states, what we don't know about your state, we read about. Just because we don't live in your state doesn't mean we can't have opinions about what is going on in your state that will affect all of the other 49 states.
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Post by onelasttime on Sept 7, 2022 16:55:18 GMT
It seems some still have a problem understanding the term “phase in” so trying to help those who fail to grasp the meaning I have a definition for you to help you understand the term….
”Definition of phase in : to start to use or do (something) gradually over a period of time : to introduce (something) slowly”
Let me repeat it for you…
“Definition of phase in : to start to use or do (something) gradually over a period of time : to introduce (something) slowly”
and again
“Definition of phase in : to start to use or do (something) gradually over a period of time : to introduce (something) slowly”
and again
“Definition of phase in : to start to use or do (something) gradually over a period of time : to introduce (something) slowly”
Got it now?
So once again the State of California is phasing in the sale of EVs while phasing out the sale of new gas powered cars. The State is not banning the use of gas powered cars nor the sale of used gas powered cars. The whining the State is not ready is just that whining because the change is being phased in over a 12 year period. So unless the whiners have a crystal ball and can see into the future that shows them the State has not done their bit they are just whining over nothing. And ignoring the bigger picture.
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Post by sunshine on Sept 7, 2022 16:57:12 GMT
Damn-that’s one unhinged LWFNJ.
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Post by onelasttime on Sept 7, 2022 17:22:43 GMT
“She doesn’t drive so she doesn’t understand”.
Don’t understand what? The affects of climate change on all of us? The cause of climate change that all of us contributed to? That we are all going to have to make changes if we want to combat climate change.
Just what don’t I understand?
Maybe I understand more because I’m looking at the big picture.
Yesterday in CA temperature records were broken. In Santa Rosa it reach 115. And other parts of the Bay Area had even higher temperatures.
BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit) discovered something the last time we had these high temperatures. It affects the rails the trains run on. How did they find this out? It caused one of the trains to derail. Luckily no one was hurt.
Now BART knows what to look for and discovered the heat from the last several days was affecting a set of tracks so they were able to shut down that stretch of track without finding out about it by another derailment. It opened that stretch this morning.
A the asphalt on a highway south of here got so hot yesterday it started to rise and cause a hazard. The road had to be closed so they could fix it.
The flash floods earlier this summer in Arizona and Southern CA washed out roads.
Because of all the ground water the farmers in the Central Valley used to water their crops during this multi year drought parts of the Central Valley are sinking. Sinking enough that parts of an aqueduct are falling apart and need to be fixed/replaced. An aqueduct that’s bring water to the area.
So now we are finding out how climate change affects the infrastructure.
And then there are the wildfires in both Northern & Southern CA that are even harder to fight because of this heat. Two more people died in the fire down south. They died trying to get away from the fire.
This is what the big picture looks like and it’s only a small part of what is happening in the rest of the world. And it’s because of climate change.
And you don’t have to drive a car to understand that.
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Post by Clair on Sept 7, 2022 17:32:08 GMT
I feel like this has gotten lost and I wanted to address it. No, the final aim is not that everyone would have to buy an electric car eventually or that all of these types of vehicles would become 100% electric. That is not plausible or even advisable. There are a host of other options in the pipeline and several even currently available. In my town, we have the first hydrogen powered mass transit busses in the nation. They literally "refuel" at the hydrogen fueling station at the bus terminal, similar to filling a gas tank. Green hydrogen is a potential future fuel source for a variety of larger applications, including semi tractor/trailers and farm equipment. There are also a wide variety of biofuels in development for use in air travel. These other alternatives will give us a range of options to fuel emergency vehicles too. You can't electrify an airplane or a cruise ship with current technology, obviously. I think that sometimes the media gets obsessed with just one solution and gets fixated upon it to the detriment of the important work that needs to be done to address climate change. So many issues regarding successfully addressing climate change are being presented as black and white, and only one option or solution, but this does not have to be the case, nor is it wise. We need all the shades of grey to be successful. We will need a variety of solutions across transportation, energy production, agriculture and food production, water management, infrastructure and housing, and industry. When things like this are rolled out by a politician, it all comes out very black and white. There is nothing wrong with finding out about how they intend to make this all work. In theory, electric vehicles are a great solution for large cities. Electric mass transit is great. But when they present it, people are going to want to know how it's ALL supposed to work and they should have answers, instead of everything being theoretical. In reality, many people do not live in large cities, lots and lots live in rural areas. Nobody has been talking about a solution for those that live rural and don't have access to mass transit or may not have access to charging stations near them. Politicians throw stuff out there before everything is thought through and people panic about how it's going to affect them. Have you been to California? California is huge and very diverse but (I believe) about 95 percent of our population live in urban areas. Our big cities are huge and sprawling. There definitely are large hurdles ahead but the majority of people won’t be dependent on rural charging stations. It seems like you are lacking in your knowledge about California, the 2035 ban on new gas powered car sales and how electric cars charge and work. This gas powered car sale ban is far from perfect but it certainly isn’t all doom and gloom. Mass transit is getting better in CA but doesn’t work for most.
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Post by onelasttime on Sept 7, 2022 17:56:17 GMT
Ah lithium. Did you know the Smithsonian has a tv channel? It does and one of the shows on it is Aerial America. They fly over each of the 50 states and give a painless history lesson about that state. This really is a beautiful country. But they also fly over the affects that mining has had in this country. And it ain’t pretty. Especially in Wyoming and the coal mining going on there. Then there are the scars left by the hydraulic mining that’s used high pressure water to wash away rocks to get to gold. They did that a lot in the Gold Country here in CA. They haven’t done it for decades but the scares still remain. My point. There is no “good” mining. That’s a fact. So once again one has to look at the big picture. Does the benefit from the product mined outweigh the damage done in the process of mining it. Its well documented that fossil fuels spew crap into the air. So damage is done extracting it and damage is done using it. At this point the only downside to lithium is the mining and as the article says we need it if we want to move to clean energy. From Solar Reviews. link“ Lithium mining in the United States: where it stands today”“Lithium, an alkali metal, is an essential piece of the puzzle when it comes to making a renewable energy-powered world a reality. Lithium-ion batteries are the top choice for car batteries and solar storage because they have a long lifespan and are incredibly efficient. Lithium is an important resource that is utilized in several products from laptops and cell phones to electric car batteries. Yet, the United States is home to just one operating lithium mine. Despite having plenty of lithium reserves containing up to 9.1 million tons, plans for new mines are stalled. There are several reasons why construction is being put on hold, from cheaper import options to local opposition. We’ll get you up to speed on where the U.S. is now in terms of mining for lithium and what we anticipate is to come. Where is lithium found in the U.S.?Lithium deposits are traditionally mined from rock and brine, which is lithium-rich water. Another mining method is using water that is a byproduct of geothermal heat plants. This can solve two problems at once by creating emissions-free geothermal energy and utilizing lithium at the same time. Lithium is prolific. This alkali metal can be found in many states in the U.S. as well as all over the world. While mining for lithium is not necessarily complicated, certain mining methods can cause pollution and take up large amounts of space – two main reasons mines are not always popular. Where are there lithium mines in the U.S.?Although lithium can be found all over the United States, there is only one operating mine in the country: the Albemarle Silver Peak Mine in Nevada. This mine uses the brine extraction method to pull lithium deposits from under the earth's surface. The brine is usually found below the surface of dry lake beds and typically in deserts. There are plans to open up more mines in Nevada, California, Arkansas, and North Carolina, which will help reach the previously-stated goal of supplying lithium domestically and via strategic partners by 2030.” Why do we need more lithium mines in the U.S.?It takes a fair amount of time before raw lithium or lithium-ion batteries reach the United States. Currently, the U.S. gets most of its lithium from South America or Australia. Typically, the mined lithium is processed and turned into batteries in China. That's at least two more continents the lithium lands in before the final product is complete. Not to mention the emissions released along the way when shipping the lithium between countries. As the pandemic has taught us, a long supply chain can lead to several snags such as long wait times or price increases. To combat this, the United States wants to increase the domestic production of lithium to avoid such issues in the future. The idea of adding lithium mines is not always met with enthusiasm, though. There is the fear of pollution as well as pushback from native tribes whose sacred land would be tarnished.” “How is lithium mined and why is it controversial?“ Similar to mining for other metals and resources, the process of mining lithium is not the best for the environment due to land use, water use, and the harmful emissions released during the mining process. Additionally, these mines take up large surface areas, extract huge amounts of soil, or need space for water to evaporate. The two traditional methods mentioned earlier, rock and brine extraction, need groundwater to operate the mines. Using this water can leave it polluted while also leaving less water for local communities and natural environments. Perhaps ironically, the equipment to power lithium mines uses fossil fuels, emitting greenhouse gasses in the process. Due to the environmental impacts and the sheer amount of space that lithium mines take up, people around the world are protesting their existence. The environmental concerns are valid, but it is also true that lithium is a key element needed for the renewable energy transition that is necessary to mitigate global warming. As noted earlier, extracting brine from geothermal heat plants is a good option because the geothermal plants themselves create energy and have the smallest environmental impact. This lithium mining process uses less water, less land, and emits zero carbon emissions compared to rock and underground reservoir mining. Why is lithium important for the energy transition?Lithium is a core component of lithium-ion batteries, and lithium-ion batteries are the best batteries for recharging and powering the technology we use in our daily lives. Lithium-ion batteries are in cell phones, laptops, electric vehicles, and rechargeable storage batteries. Batteries are going to be extremely important as the world moves towards a renewable grid. Since the sun does not shine 24/7 and the wind does not always blow, batteries will be needed to keep energy on hand for times of low production. There can be an energy imbalance during the sunniest parts of the day when energy might not be used the most, and at night time when energy use is typically more. Lithium-ion batteries will be able to store excess energy that can then be utilized when renewable sources are not producing enough electricity for everyone to use. Obviously, for lithium-ion batteries to work, we need lithium. Are there alternatives to lithium mining?As of right now, there are no other options aside from traditional mining methods for lithium. Not mining lithium will mean we won't have a shot at building the battery storage required to keep our grid fossil fuel-free. Mining seems like the lesser of two evils, but fortunately, scientists are working on other ways to increase the lithium supply, such as lithium recycling. Lithium has been used in electronics for years and once the electronics reach the end of their usable life, they are often thrown out. Current recycling methods rely on energy-intensive processes and acid to break down undesired parts of old batteries. Fortunately, new methods are being developed that use less energy and can even make the recycled batteries' performance even better. Recycling is nowhere near the point of replacing mining, but once it can be scaled up, recycling lithium will be a key part of the lithium supply chain. The unfortunate truth is that until recycling can be more manageable or there are alternatives to lithium mining, or even lithium itself, mining for lithium is necessary for a future of clean energy.”
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Post by onelasttime on Sept 7, 2022 18:08:26 GMT
I see the resident shit disturber has paid us a visit to talk about the homeless.
Yes homelessness is a problem. And it continues to be a problem in spite of the amount of money that has been spent over the years trying to solve the problem.
To me there are three main obstacles that those tasked with trying solve the problem have not yet been able to get around.
1. Civil Rights
2. The NIMBY crowd
3. Affordable housing. Again this is made more difficult by the NIMBY crowd.
So if she knows of ways to remove these obstacles I’m sure Gavin Newsom would like to hear what they are.
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Post by cindosha on Sept 7, 2022 18:20:05 GMT
I see the resident shit disturber has paid us a visit to talk about the homeless. Yes homelessness is a problem. And it continues to be a problem in spite of the amount of money that has been spent over the years trying to solve the problem. To me there are three main obstacles that those tasked with trying solve the problem have not yet been able to get around. 1. Civil Rights 2. The NIMBY crowd 3. Affordable housing. Again this is made more difficult by the NIMBY crowd. So if she knows of ways to remove these obstacles I’m sure Gavin Newsom would like to hear what they are. If you are referring to me, I don't know how to remove the obstacles. That's the job of the government. I merely pointed out that homelessness seems to be a more pressing problem than the electric vehicle at this point. I don't think there is anything affordable about the housing in California. For anyone.
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Post by cindosha on Sept 7, 2022 18:22:53 GMT
When things like this are rolled out by a politician, it all comes out very black and white. There is nothing wrong with finding out about how they intend to make this all work. In theory, electric vehicles are a great solution for large cities. Electric mass transit is great. But when they present it, people are going to want to know how it's ALL supposed to work and they should have answers, instead of everything being theoretical. In reality, many people do not live in large cities, lots and lots live in rural areas. Nobody has been talking about a solution for those that live rural and don't have access to mass transit or may not have access to charging stations near them. Politicians throw stuff out there before everything is thought through and people panic about how it's going to affect them. Have you been to California? California is huge and very diverse but (I believe) about 95 percent of our population live in urban areas. Our big cities are huge and sprawling. There definitely are large hurdles ahead but the majority of people won’t be dependent on rural charging stations. It seems like you are lacking in your knowledge about California, the 2035 ban on new gas powered car sales and how electric cars charge and work. This gas powered car sale ban is far from perfect but it certainly isn’t all doom and gloom. Mass transit is getting better in CA but doesn’t work for most. Yes, I actually used to live in California. What happens to the people who DO live rural? Shouldn't everyone be included in this switchover?
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Post by onelasttime on Sept 7, 2022 18:47:22 GMT
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kibblesandbits
Pearl Clutcher
At the corner of Awesome and Bombdiggity
Posts: 3,305
Aug 13, 2016 13:47:39 GMT
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Post by kibblesandbits on Sept 7, 2022 18:58:48 GMT
So, you are ok with 160,000 homeless living in the streets, panhandling, taking drugs and crapping in the streets? I wouldn't be if it were my state. I would try and find a solution to the problem, which is what your governor should be doing instead of ignoring it. To make EV's a priority over this crisis is just crazy!!! It's not your state so why don't you just shut the fuck up? Oh, gosh, wait . . . I totally misunderstood. ONLY California residents are supposed to reply to this thread. Shoulda put that in the title.
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lindas
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,151
Jun 26, 2014 5:46:37 GMT
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Post by lindas on Sept 7, 2022 19:12:36 GMT
Here’s a word you don’t seem to grasp the meaning of either onelasttime, condescending. so here’s the definition for you, having or showing a feeling of patronizing superiority. Let me repeat it for you,, having or showing a feeling of patronizing superiority. And again, having or showing a feeling of patronizing superiority. And again, having or showing a feeling of patronizing superiority. One more time, having or showing a feeling of patronizing superiority. We all get what phased in means as far as the EVs, why don’t you address the issues raised in this thread like what phase in plan does CA have for the infrastructure to handle more drain on the power grid. You seem to be the resident expert so why don’t you enlighten us.
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Post by bc2ca on Sept 7, 2022 20:03:19 GMT
It IS a classic example of putting the cart before the horse. I'm going to respectfully disagree with this. We need the goal in place to initiate/continue programs and keep heading in the right direction. Are the goals realistic? Who knows? I do know the only replacement vehicles we are looking at are EVs. And the only fleet vehicles DH's company are looking at now are EVs. They are pretty happy with the Ford Maverick. We aren't interested in a Tesla and happy to see more and more less expensive models hitting the market. I seriously don't think there will be a mass run to buy gas only vehicles before the 2035 ban here and I doubt even more that people will be heading into other states to do it? Seriously, why would that be the take-away? It is possible for those in power to work on more than one thing at once if they’re so inclined. I also want to give a shout out to CA's responsive to the grid pressure last night.
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Sept 7, 2022 20:19:38 GMT
It IS a classic example of putting the cart before the horse. I'm going to respectfully disagree with this. We need the goal in place to initiate/continue programs and keep heading in the right direction. Are the goals realistic? Who knows? I do know the only replacement vehicles we are looking at are EVs. And the only fleet vehicles DH's company are looking at now are EVs. They are pretty happy with the Ford Maverick. We aren't interested in a Tesla and happy to see more and more less expensive models hitting the market. I seriously don't think there will be a mass run to buy gas only vehicles before the 2035 ban here and I doubt even more that people will be heading into other states to do it? Seriously, why would that be the take-away? I don’t know why you’re telling me about a takeaway of “a mass run to buy gas-only vehicles.” Nowhere in any of my posts on this thread do I state any such thing.
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Post by aj2hall on Sept 7, 2022 20:26:42 GMT
Ah lithium. Did you know the Smithsonian has a tv channel? It does and one of the shows on it is Aerial America. They fly over each of the 50 states and give a painless history lesson about that state. This really is a beautiful country. But they also fly over the affects that mining has had in this country. And it ain’t pretty. Especially in Wyoming and the coal mining going on there. Then there are the scars left by the hydraulic mining that’s used high pressure water to wash away rocks to get to gold. They did that a lot in the Gold Country here in CA. They haven’t done it for decades but the scares still remain. My point. There is no “good” mining. That’s a fact. So once again one has to look at the big picture. Does the benefit from the product mined outweigh the damage done in the process of mining it. Its well documented that fossil fuels spew crap into the air. So damage is done extracting it and damage is done using it. At this point the only downside to lithium is the mining and as the article says we need it if we want to move to clean energy. From Solar Reviews. linkYes, we can all agree on the environmental harms caused by coal mining, that's a no brainer. And no, every kind of mining does not have to be that way. There are methods to mine more responsibly, but they generally cost more or are just developing and need research and investment. From the article you posted As noted earlier, extracting brine from geothermal heat plants is a good option because the geothermal plants themselves create energy and have the smallest environmental impact. This lithium mining process uses less water, less land, and emits zero carbon emissions compared to rock and underground reservoir mining.
By the way, it's not just lithium, it's also cobalt and other battery components. And it's easy for you to say from your lofty perch in California where you will only benefit from the ban that the trade off is worth it. You will not have to face the costs or inconvenience of an EV. And you won't have to deal with the potential ethical and environmental damage caused by lithium mining.
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