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Post by aj2hall on Sept 7, 2022 20:32:55 GMT
“She doesn’t drive so she doesn’t understand”. Don’t understand what? The affects of climate change on all of us? The cause of climate change that all of us contributed to? That we are all going to have to make changes if we want to combat climate change. Just what don’t I understand? Maybe I understand more because I’m looking at the big picture. Yesterday in CA temperature records were broken. In Santa Rosa it reach 115. And other parts of the Bay Area had even higher temperatures. BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit) discovered something the last time we had these high temperatures. It affects the rails the trains run on. How did they find this out? It caused one of the trains to derail. Luckily no one was hurt. Now BART knows what to look for and discovered the heat from the last several days was affecting a set of tracks so they were able to shut down that stretch of track without finding out about it by another derailment. It opened that stretch this morning. A the asphalt on a highway south of here got so hot yesterday it started to rise and cause a hazard. The road had to be closed so they could fix it. The flash floods earlier this summer in Arizona and Southern CA washed out roads. Because of all the ground water the farmers in the Central Valley used to water their crops during this multi year drought parts of the Central Valley are sinking. Sinking enough that parts of an aqueduct are falling apart and need to be fixed/replaced. An aqueduct that’s bring water to the area. So now we are finding out how climate change affects the infrastructure. And then there are the wildfires in both Northern & Southern CA that are even harder to fight because of this heat. Two more people died in the fire down south. They died trying to get away from the fire. This is what the big picture looks like and it’s only a small part of what is happening in the rest of the world. And it’s because of climate change. And you don’t have to drive a car to understand that. Please spare us the condescending lectures on climate change. I've repeatedly said we are all aware of the harmful effects. No one is disputing that and no one is disputing the immediate need to do something. The question is what is the most cost effective, least harmful way to reduce greenhouse gas emissions? There are legitimate concerns about EVs that need to be addressed. Those concerns are easy for you to dismiss because you won't have to deal with the costs or inconvenience of buying and owning an EV.
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Post by bc2ca on Sept 7, 2022 20:35:12 GMT
I'm going to respectfully disagree with this. We need the goal in place to initiate/continue programs and keep heading in the right direction. Are the goals realistic? Who knows? I do know the only replacement vehicles we are looking at are EVs. And the only fleet vehicles DH's company are looking at now are EVs. They are pretty happy with the Ford Maverick. We aren't interested in a Tesla and happy to see more and more less expensive models hitting the market. I seriously don't think there will be a mass run to buy gas only vehicles before the 2035 ban here and I doubt even more that people will be heading into other states to do it? Seriously, why would that be the take-away? I don’t know why you’re telling me about a takeaway of “a mass run to buy gas-only vehicles.” Nowhere in any of my posts on this thread do I state any such thing. That was a general statement to the thread, not specifically to you. It just flowed from my thoughts on "putting the cart before the horse".
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Post by onelasttime on Sept 7, 2022 21:07:05 GMT
The heat bends the rails per BART
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Post by onelasttime on Sept 7, 2022 21:11:54 GMT
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Post by aj2hall on Sept 7, 2022 22:44:16 GMT
www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/09/07/california-heat-wave-climate-electricity/The same state that is rushing to rid its roads of gas-powered vehicles was pleading with electric car drivers this week not to recharge during peak hours. Meanwhile, aging natural gas-fired generators that California wants to eradicate are being leaned on heavily to keep the lights on. And the state is scrambling to postpone the closure of a nuclear plant that officials earlier said would be made obsolete by sun and wind power.
Some enthusiastic clean energy boosters are frustrated by how things are playing out in the state this week. Advocates in the state’s underserved urban communities were dismayed to see restrictions on factories using diesel generators lifted so they could be fired up to ease stress on the grid.
“We’ve known for years this kind of heat wave was coming,” said Ari Eisenstadt, a campaign manager with the California Environmental Justice Alliance. “We can’t keep saying this is unprecedented — when we know it will happen next year, too — and act surprised and then say, ‘Let’s turn up those generators which spew toxic pollution into low-income communities of color.’ ”
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Post by elaine on Sept 7, 2022 22:54:34 GMT
www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/09/07/california-heat-wave-climate-electricity/The same state that is rushing to rid its roads of gas-powered vehicles was pleading with electric car drivers this week not to recharge during peak hours. Meanwhile, aging natural gas-fired generators that California wants to eradicate are being leaned on heavily to keep the lights on. And the state is scrambling to postpone the closure of a nuclear plant that officials earlier said would be made obsolete by sun and wind power.
Some enthusiastic clean energy boosters are frustrated by how things are playing out in the state this week. Advocates in the state’s underserved urban communities were dismayed to see restrictions on factories using diesel generators lifted so they could be fired up to ease stress on the grid.
“We’ve known for years this kind of heat wave was coming,” said Ari Eisenstadt, a campaign manager with the California Environmental Justice Alliance. “We can’t keep saying this is unprecedented — when we know it will happen next year, too — and act surprised and then say, ‘Let’s turn up those generators which spew toxic pollution into low-income communities of color.’ ”
National news tonight led with a long segment on the California grid failing to meet the demands being placed on it.
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Post by aj2hall on Sept 7, 2022 22:56:50 GMT
Do the mining costs of cobalt, lithium & other battery components outweigh the benefits? These are the costs you dismissed because the ends justify the means, essentially. www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/business/batteries/congo-cobalt-mining-for-lithium-ion-battery/The world’s soaring demand for cobalt is at times met by workers, including children, who labor in harsh and dangerous conditions. An estimated 100,000 cobalt miners in Congo use hand tools to dig hundreds of feet underground with little oversight and few safety measures, according to workers, government officials and evidence found by The Washington Post during visits to remote mines. Deaths and injuries are common. And the mining activity exposes local communities to levels of toxic metals that appear to be linked to ailments that include breathing problems and birth defects, health officials say.
Child Labor No one knows exactly how many children work in Congo’s mining industry. UNICEF in 2012 estimated that 40,000 boys and girls do so in the country’s south. A 2007 study funded by the U.S. Agency for International Development found 4,000 children worked at mining sites in Kolwezi alone.
Local government officials say they lack the resources to address the problem.
“We have a big challenge with the children, because it is difficult to take them out of the mines when there are no schools for these children to go to,” said Muyej, the provincial governor. “We have to find a solution for this.”
Birth Defects, Illness In Lubumbashi, another center of Congo’s mining industry, 180 miles from Kolwezi, doctors have begun to unravel what has long been a mystery behind a range of health problems for local residents.
Their findings point to the mining industry as the problem.
These doctors at the University of Lubumbashi already know miners and residents are exposed to metals at levels many times higher than what is considered safe.
One of their studies found residents who live near mines or smelters in southern Congo had urinary concentrations of cobalt that were 43 times as high as that of a control group, lead levels five times as high, and cadmium and uranium levels four times as high. The levels were even higher in children.
One study the university doctors published in 2012 found preliminary evidence of an increased risk of a baby being born with a visible birth defect if the father worked in Congo’s mining industry.
The Lubumbashi doctors also have issued reports on birth defects so rare — one is called Mermaid syndrome — that they are the only cases ever known in Congo. All occurred in children born in heavy mining regions.
For Kayembe, the study that stood out most looked at babies born with holoprosencephaly, a usually fatal condition that causes severe, distinctive facial deformities. It is almost unheard of. Entire medical careers pass without seeing one. But last year, doctors in Lubumbashi recorded three cases in three months.
“This is not normal,” Kayembe said.
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Post by sunshine on Sept 7, 2022 23:42:06 GMT
Newsome must feel real good about himself-NIMBY.
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Post by onelasttime on Sept 8, 2022 1:15:03 GMT
Apparently it’s not just BART tracks that have problems with the heat.
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seaexplore
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,408
Apr 25, 2015 23:57:30 GMT
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Post by seaexplore on Sept 8, 2022 3:36:44 GMT
Can I also throw in that most places no longer allow ANY natural gas appliances? Yep, that's right- EVERYTHING will be electric in almost all homes in CA. We think there's a power supply/grid problem now? Guess what- you haven't seen anything when EVERYTHING including the cars on the road have to be electric. WTF? "Most places" as in the rest of the US? Because here in the great midwest natural gas appliances are certainly a thing and there is no sign that they will be restricted. As an aside, I just love how California proclaims this kind of stuff and just hopes the rest of us follows along. How do you (California you) expect your vegetables and grains to be harvested? Cows milked? Produce transported? Airplanes launched and landed? Asian countries, Eastern European countries, and developing Southern Hemisphere countries are certainly not worried about destroying the planet. Hell, even our government isn't interested in climate change or else they wouldn't be purchasing gas guzzling gigantic armored vehicles by the dozen for higher ups in exalted positions. I'll care about the planet about the time our government does - really does. When they move to electric vehicles, stop using metric tons of paper, etc., quit waging war all over the fucking place, then I'll be right behind them. No! I was talking about most places in CA, which I did state in my comment. I figured that since this thread was about the shit show that CA is becoming, I didn’t need to give the state at the start. Sorry. 😀 Silly girl, don’t ask the hard questions! That thinking ahead just makes too much sense. (Sarcasm alert!)
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seaexplore
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,408
Apr 25, 2015 23:57:30 GMT
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Post by seaexplore on Sept 8, 2022 3:47:29 GMT
When things like this are rolled out by a politician, it all comes out very black and white. There is nothing wrong with finding out about how they intend to make this all work. In theory, electric vehicles are a great solution for large cities. Electric mass transit is great. But when they present it, people are going to want to know how it's ALL supposed to work and they should have answers, instead of everything being theoretical. In reality, many people do not live in large cities, lots and lots live in rural areas. Nobody has been talking about a solution for those that live rural and don't have access to mass transit or may not have access to charging stations near them. Politicians throw stuff out there before everything is thought through and people panic about how it's going to affect them. Have you been to California? California is huge and very diverse but (I believe) about 95 percent of our population live in urban areas. Our big cities are huge and sprawling. There definitely are large hurdles ahead but the majority of people won’t be dependent on rural charging stations. It seems like you are lacking in your knowledge about California, the 2035 ban on new gas powered car sales and how electric cars charge and work. This gas powered car sale ban is far from perfect but it certainly isn’t all doom and gloom. Mass transit is getting better in CA but doesn’t work for most. 9% of CA population is rural but 55% of the space is. (source: cafwd.org/news/dont-leave-rural-california-behind/). That means there is a whole lot of space occupied by a small number of people, thus they are very spread out. I’m part of that 9%. Grocery stores other than small mom and pop over priced places are 45-60 min away, one way. My kids gymnastics? 45-50 min one way, 3 days a week!
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kibblesandbits
Pearl Clutcher
At the corner of Awesome and Bombdiggity
Posts: 3,305
Aug 13, 2016 13:47:39 GMT
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Post by kibblesandbits on Sept 8, 2022 12:54:24 GMT
"Most places" as in the rest of the US? Because here in the great midwest natural gas appliances are certainly a thing and there is no sign that they will be restricted. As an aside, I just love how California proclaims this kind of stuff and just hopes the rest of us follows along. How do you (California you) expect your vegetables and grains to be harvested? Cows milked? Produce transported? Airplanes launched and landed? Asian countries, Eastern European countries, and developing Southern Hemisphere countries are certainly not worried about destroying the planet. Hell, even our government isn't interested in climate change or else they wouldn't be purchasing gas guzzling gigantic armored vehicles by the dozen for higher ups in exalted positions. I'll care about the planet about the time our government does - really does. When they move to electric vehicles, stop using metric tons of paper, etc., quit waging war all over the fucking place, then I'll be right behind them. No! I was talking about most places in CA, which I did state in my comment. I figured that since this thread was about the shit show that CA is becoming, I didn’t need to give the state at the start. Sorry. 😀 Silly girl, don’t ask the hard questions! That thinking ahead just makes too much sense. (Sarcasm alert!) Boy, my eyes skipped right over that. Unless you added the CA later?
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Post by epeanymous on Sept 8, 2022 12:58:55 GMT
We need massive investments in public transit. It amazes me every time I travel abroad and then return here to unreliable transit with spotty geographic coverage. Individual cars just aren't the solution (obviously there are areas where mass transit is unrealistic but I am talking about the communities where the majority of people live).
As an aside, I poked around for EV large enough to seat my eight-person family and was not seeing things.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Sept 8, 2022 14:29:12 GMT
Do the mining costs of cobalt, lithium & other battery components outweigh the benefits? These are the costs you dismissed because the ends justify the means, essentially. I couldn't figure out how to quote this last night on my iPad... but this statement, and that entire post, made me think... Let's not care about the consequences to anyone or anywhere else, or worry about *other* peoples' needs, or the environment anywhere else. Just California's. And let's worry about it in a vacuum. Let's not think about the big picture. Because apparently the ends (for the state of CA, anyway) justify the means and the consequences for the entire rest of the world? That's what it sounds like, anyway. Who the heck cares about the climate, environment, peoples' health, the economies, etc. of other countries, as long as CA switches to all EVs. Heck, let's not even listen to the objections that people might have *in* California, lest we find out that they *might* be valid. That's what this entire thread sounds like to me.
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Post by onelasttime on Sept 8, 2022 14:36:25 GMT
Couple of things.
This morning I was listening to the news on the radio and found out that CA has been adding electricity to the grid the last couple of years. It’s clean energy that is stored in lithium batteries. That along with people cutting back their use at peak times has help stop the rolling blackouts during this high heat wave.
Ted Cruz took a pot shot at Gavin Newsom yesterday and his appeal to the citizens to conserve energy to avoid the rolling blackouts. It seems Cruz thought Newsom was in an AC room. See below. I don’t know what Newsom clip he was referring to but Newsom has been all over the state, inside & outside. And he didn’t flee the state like someone else did when the weather got bad. In case anyone wonders I do have AC and it’s set at 80.
Also saw a proposition that will be on the CA ballot in November. See below.
Changing to clean renewable energy is not going to be easy. But we have no choice. That list of fires below does not include the ones the firefighters managed to put out before they spread. If it did, that list would be double in length. This is just what is happening in CA. Other states/areas have their problems with the affects of climate change as well.
Getting of my soapbox climate change and leaving you all to grumble among yourselves.
California Proposition 30, Tax on Income Above $2 Million for Zero-Emissions Vehicles and Wildfire Prevention Initiative (2022)
California Proposition
California Proposition 30, the Tax on Income Above $2 Million for Zero-Emissions Vehicles and Wildfire Prevention Initiative, is on the ballot in California as an initiated state statute on November 8, 2022.[1]
A "yes" vote supports increasing the tax on personal income above $2 million by 1.75% and dedicating the revenue to zero-emission vehicle subsidies; zero-emission vehicle infrastructure, such as electric vehicle charging stations; and wildfire suppression and prevention programs.
A "no" vote opposes increasing the tax on personal income above $2 million by 1.75% and dedicating the revenue to zero-emission vehicle subsidies; zero-emission vehicle infrastructure, such as electric vehicle charging stations; and wildfire suppression and prevention programs.”
This is a list of the fires currently burning in CA.
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Post by aj2hall on Sept 8, 2022 16:49:57 GMT
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Post by cindosha on Sept 8, 2022 17:49:16 GMT
Newsome must feel real good about himself-NIMBY. I had to laugh when I saw him deliver his "use less air conditioning to help the grid" while wearing a fleece jacket and a hat. I am going to guess that he wasn't in a room that was over 100 degrees if he was wearing that. I'm pretty sure he was in an air conditioned room telling everyone to not use their air conditioning and shut their windows and shades. What a hypocrite
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Post by aj2hall on Sept 8, 2022 20:24:39 GMT
Newsome must feel real good about himself-NIMBY. I had to laugh when I saw him deliver his "use less air conditioning to help the grid" while wearing a fleece jacket and a hat. I am going to guess that he wasn't in a room that was over 100 degrees if he was wearing that. I'm pretty sure he was in an air conditioned room telling everyone to not use their air conditioning and shut their windows and shades. What a hypocrite For starters, he didn't ask people to set their AC to 100 degrees. He asked them to set it to 78 degrees. And the rest was common sense. Close the blinds, run the air more in the morning to pre-cool your home and avoid using large appliances. I have no idea why he was wearing a long sleeve and baseball hat, but he looked like he was in an emergency command center. He's not my favorite politician, but this seems like a ridiculous thing to criticize him over. At least he's not leaving the state during an emergency like Cancun Cruz.
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Post by cindosha on Sept 8, 2022 21:09:57 GMT
I had to laugh when I saw him deliver his "use less air conditioning to help the grid" while wearing a fleece jacket and a hat. I am going to guess that he wasn't in a room that was over 100 degrees if he was wearing that. I'm pretty sure he was in an air conditioned room telling everyone to not use their air conditioning and shut their windows and shades. What a hypocrite For starters, he didn't ask people to set their AC to 100 degrees. He asked them to set it to 78 degrees. And the rest was common sense. Close the blinds, run the air more in the morning to pre-cool your home and avoid using large appliances. I have no idea why he was wearing a long sleeve and baseball hat, but he looked like he was in an emergency command center. He's not my favorite politician, but this seems like a ridiculous thing to criticize him over. At least he's not leaving the state during an emergency like Cancun Cruz. The least he could do is suffer with his constituents. Still a hypocrite. There’s nothing ridiculous about criticizing someone who’s sitting in air-conditioning while telling everybody else not to use it. ETA…I never said he told people to turn their air conditioning to 100° but I can guarantee you that people that don’t have air conditioning are going to be up in the 90s and hundreds in their house.
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Post by onelasttime on Sept 8, 2022 22:50:09 GMT
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Post by elaine on Sept 8, 2022 23:19:35 GMT
Has anyone on this thread posited that climate change isn’t real?
Just wondering.
Because otherwise the repetitive tweet postings appears to be an attempt to deflect (taken from the GOP playbook) from the OP’s not actually driving or being dependent on transportation.
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Post by aj2hall on Sept 9, 2022 0:03:38 GMT
For starters, he didn't ask people to set their AC to 100 degrees. He asked them to set it to 78 degrees. And the rest was common sense. Close the blinds, run the air more in the morning to pre-cool your home and avoid using large appliances. I have no idea why he was wearing a long sleeve and baseball hat, but he looked like he was in an emergency command center. He's not my favorite politician, but this seems like a ridiculous thing to criticize him over. At least he's not leaving the state during an emergency like Cancun Cruz. The least he could do is suffer with his constituents. Still a hypocrite. There’s nothing ridiculous about criticizing someone who’s sitting in air-conditioning while telling everybody else not to use it. ETA…I never said he told people to turn their air conditioning to 100° but I can guarantee you that people that don’t have air conditioning are going to be up in the 90s and hundreds in their house. Did you actually listen to what he said or just the right wing media criticism? He didn't say don't use air conditioning. I'm not a fan of him, but you're mischaracterizing what he said, perhaps intentionally. And if you ever criticized Republicans for their countless examples of hypocrisy, we might take you a little more seriously. But your very one sided criticism of perceived hypocrisy is laughable.
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Post by femalebusiness on Sept 9, 2022 1:11:18 GMT
The least he could do is suffer with his constituents. Still a hypocrite. There’s nothing ridiculous about criticizing someone who’s sitting in air-conditioning while telling everybody else not to use it. ETA…I never said he told people to turn their air conditioning to 100° but I can guarantee you that people that don’t have air conditioning are going to be up in the 90s and hundreds in their house. Did you actually listen to what he said or just the right wing media criticism? He didn't say don't use air conditioning. I'm not a fan of him, but you're mischaracterizing what he said, perhaps intentionally. And if you ever criticized Republicans for their countless examples of hypocrisy, we might take you a little more seriously. But your very one sided criticism of perceived hypocrisy is laughable. People who are not very successful in their lives, yammer on about things that they have no knowledge of just to take attention off of their own failures. They gaslight others hoping that no one can see how pathetic they are. It doesn't work though.
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Post by aj2hall on Sept 11, 2022 3:58:20 GMT
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Post by hop2 on Sept 11, 2022 12:20:08 GMT
I might be late to this thread, BUT, my biggest concern about this is not the cars themselves but the issue of at home ways to plug in your car. Not so much single family homeowners. They’ll do whatever. But apartment & condo dwellers do not always have the ability to PROPERLY install EV hookups. So many apartments & condos do not have garages or access to electricity in the parking lot. Here people run weird extension cords out of windows etc to hook up their EV ‘plug’ to charge vehicles. Extension cords used in this way are a fire hazard. In the fire code, extension cords should never be used for permanent installations & nightly/daily charging is a permanent installation. No, not every time an extension cords is used permanently does a fire occur. But it is statistically significant enough to be made into code. You can’t just be running thousands if extension cords out of windows all over the apartment complexes state wide.
Multiply this by the hundreds of thousands of people who will be doing it and see where that goes.
EV charging has to be directly addressed in building & housing codes prior to 2035 or you’ll find out the hard way the threat that carries. And no, the current extension cord code is not enough as people do not consider their EV set ups and extension cord in their minds and since they can take it with them if they move they don’t consider it permanent. But in daily usage it has the same hazard.
In my opinion codes are going to have to become more explicit and more strict because people find loopholes in their minds and do it anyway. We shouldn’t wait until there are fires & loss of life. There will be fires.
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Post by aj2hall on Sept 11, 2022 13:39:04 GMT
Can I also throw in that most places no longer allow ANY natural gas appliances? Yep, that's right- EVERYTHING will be electric in almost all homes in CA. We think there's a power supply/grid problem now? Guess what- you haven't seen anything when EVERYTHING including the cars on the road have to be electric. WTF? "Most places" as in the rest of the US? Because here in the great midwest natural gas appliances are certainly a thing and there is no sign that they will be restricted. As an aside, I just love how California proclaims this kind of stuff and just hopes the rest of us follows along. How do you (California you) expect your vegetables and grains to be harvested? Cows milked? Produce transported? Airplanes launched and landed? Asian countries, Eastern European countries, and developing Southern Hemisphere countries are certainly not worried about destroying the planet. Hell, even our government isn't interested in climate change or else they wouldn't be purchasing gas guzzling gigantic armored vehicles by the dozen for higher ups in exalted positions. I'll care about the planet about the time our government does - really does. When they move to electric vehicles, stop using metric tons of paper, etc., quit waging war all over the fucking place, then I'll be right behind them. The government is in the process of switching over to EVs. Almost every department, even the Department of Defense, is electrifying their fleet. The DOD has a zero emission vehicle acquisition goal and GM is building a Hummer EV. National Parks are in the process of electrifying their fleet and buses, too. DeJoy put up obstacles, blocked attempts to switch to EVs and resisted the transition of the post office fleet. But, states sued and now 40% of the Postal Service Fleet will be EVs. www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/07/20/usps-electric-trucks/www.cnbc.com/2021/11/09/gm-plans-to-produce-military-vehicle-based-on-hummer-ev-in-2022.htmlwww.nps.gov/zion/learn/news/zion-national-park-receives-33-million-federal-transit-grant.htmwww.energy.gov/eere/femp/electric-vehicles-federal-fleetswww.gsa.gov/about-us/newsroom/news-releases/gsa-awards-new-blanket-purchase-agreements-for-electric-vehicle-supply-equipment-procurement-05032022Also, the US and other wealthy countries are responsible for most of greenhouse gas emissions. Poorer countries just bear a disproportionate burden of the effects of climate change. China is problematic and the largest climate polluter. www.npr.org/2021/10/29/1045344199/cop26-glasgow-climate-summit Developing countries contribute a small fraction of the emissions from cars and power plants. But they're enduring some of the worst damage from climate change, like island nations that face being erased by sea level rise.
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Post by elaine on Sept 11, 2022 14:07:56 GMT
I might be late to this thread, BUT, my biggest concern about this is not the cars themselves but the issue of at home ways to plug in your car. Not so much single family homeowners. They’ll do whatever. But apartment & condo dwellers do not always have the ability to PROPERLY install EV hookups. So many apartments & condos do not have garages or access to electricity in the parking lot. Here people run weird extension cords out of windows etc to hook up their EV ‘plug’ to charge vehicles. Extension cords used in this way are a fire hazard. In the fire code, extension cords should never be used for permanent installations & nightly/daily charging is a permanent installation. No, not every time an extension cords is used permanently does a fire occur. But it is statistically significant enough to be made into code. You can’t just be running thousands if extension cords out of windows all over the apartment complexes state wide. Multiply this by the hundreds of thousands of people who will be doing it and see where that goes. EV charging has to be directly addressed in building & housing codes prior to 2035 or you’ll find out the hard way the threat that carries. And no, the current extension cord code is not enough as people do not consider their EV set ups and extension cord in their minds and since they can take it with them if they move they don’t consider it permanent. But in daily usage it has the same hazard. In my opinion codes are going to have to become more explicit and more strict because people find loopholes in their minds and do it anyway. We shouldn’t wait until there are fires & loss of life. There will be fires. Yes! I talked about this on page 1 or 2. This is the problem I have and what I see in my area. We would love an electric car, but have no garage and no way to install a charger without getting HOA permission and then digging up sidewalk, getting an electrician to safely lay line, installing the charger in the ground in a way that ensures it will weather our winters and rain, and repouring the sidewalk, etc. So, in addition to the $40+K for the car (one big enough for the family), we’d have to spend $5+K to install 1 charger - which would have to be a more expensive model that locks so that random people can’t use our electricity while we are gone and the space is open.
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Post by aj2hall on Sept 11, 2022 22:15:36 GMT
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Post by Darcy Collins on Sept 11, 2022 22:50:01 GMT
I might be late to this thread, BUT, my biggest concern about this is not the cars themselves but the issue of at home ways to plug in your car. Not so much single family homeowners. They’ll do whatever. But apartment & condo dwellers do not always have the ability to PROPERLY install EV hookups. So many apartments & condos do not have garages or access to electricity in the parking lot. Here people run weird extension cords out of windows etc to hook up their EV ‘plug’ to charge vehicles. Extension cords used in this way are a fire hazard. In the fire code, extension cords should never be used for permanent installations & nightly/daily charging is a permanent installation. No, not every time an extension cords is used permanently does a fire occur. But it is statistically significant enough to be made into code. You can’t just be running thousands if extension cords out of windows all over the apartment complexes state wide. Multiply this by the hundreds of thousands of people who will be doing it and see where that goes. EV charging has to be directly addressed in building & housing codes prior to 2035 or you’ll find out the hard way the threat that carries. And no, the current extension cord code is not enough as people do not consider their EV set ups and extension cord in their minds and since they can take it with them if they move they don’t consider it permanent. But in daily usage it has the same hazard. In my opinion codes are going to have to become more explicit and more strict because people find loopholes in their minds and do it anyway. We shouldn’t wait until there are fires & loss of life. There will be fires. Yes! I talked about this on page 1 or 2. This is the problem I have and what I see in my area. We would love an electric car, but have no garage and no way to install a charger without getting HOA permission and then digging up sidewalk, getting an electrician to safely lay line, installing the charger in the ground in a way that ensures it will weather our winters and rain, and repouring the sidewalk, etc. So, in addition to the $40+K for the car (one big enough for the family), we’d have to spend $5+K to install 1 charger - which would have to be a more expensive model that locks so that random people can’t use our electricity while we are gone and the space is open. This is actually a dichotomy no one is talking about. In general, density - including condos and apartments is good as it lends itself to the potential for efficient mass transit and shorter commutes in general than the I'll drive as far as I have to for a 3/2 house - but those housing situations are the most ill suited for EVs - honestly we'd be way better off with people closer in and living in smaller footprints than the push for single family homes far off, but the current incentives (or right now draconian options) actually incentivize the exact opposite.
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Post by refugeepea on Sept 12, 2022 1:06:36 GMT
FYI, As Lucy pointed out California is not a vacuum or the center of the universe. There are other western states on fire. The first seven days of my son's school were changed to half days. Last Thursday and Friday were changed to full days, despite still having temperatures in the high 90's. There are only four buildings in our district with air conditioning. He is in a functional skills classroom where most of his classmates have complex medical problems. We had a high of 106 in the month of SEPTEMBER. The Great Salt Lake is at an all time low where we are close to getting dust storms that will blow the arsenic from the bottom of the lake into the environment.
I do live in one of those areas where it is rural. Some kids travel over one hour one way to school by bus. There are some smaller buses that are electric. We don't have a garage. We are unfortunately a single income household. I read an article of where it's $500-$1200 to have an electrical outlet hooked up that would work. We just put a lot of money in repairs to keep our 2005 mini van running because the cost of used cars are still very high. I would love to live closer to my husband's work, but the cost of living prohibits us from doing so. Right now he drives close to 100 miles daily (Hyandai Elantra). Our house went up $200,000 in the last two years. We'd have to pay close to half a million dollars on a salary that is not high in order to live closer to his work. Our home IS a starter home. Anyway, I understand the benefits of an EV vehicle but realistically I don't know how we could afford to buy one. There is also the issue of not enough charging stations. I truly hope California figures it out, but where I live I can see the damaging effects of not having enough infrastructure.
FFS, there is on area in Utah is finally getting ELECTRICITY in the year 2022.
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