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Post by compeateropeator on Nov 6, 2022 18:02:11 GMT
I think that it was determined pretty early on that vaccinations didn’t prevent people from getting or giving Covid but that it did do a lot to minimize how the virus impacted those who got it and ultimately the hospitals and medical facilities. And which is still the opinion of the medical community today. I am guessing you did not work for a hospital or in the medical field during the pandemic?
Masks also did make a difference, again did not stop the spread, but did help (here is where the percent comes into play again).
I and many others did not vilify you but gave you our opinions much like you did to us. The problem seems to be that because there were more that disagreed with you, you felt like a victim? There were obviously some that were over the top with their responses to you without a doubt. But to be fair your post are pretty biting and contentious, so it is pretty hard to have a discussion when replying to that type of comment from the get go. And you only seemed to respond back to those that “vilify” you not those that make general comments.
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Post by cindosha on Nov 6, 2022 18:05:33 GMT
If the vaccines don’t work, why are severe Covid cases and deaths now a tiny fraction of what they were pre-vaccine? If masks and distancing don’t work, why did schools that enforced masking, like mine, have much lower rates of Covid than schools that made masks optional? The statement that the vaccine was “experimental” after mRNA technology had been studied in humans for 30 years continues to be the hallmark of someone whose “ideas” and “viewpoints” are based on conspiracy theories, not reality, and now you want an apology? Where is your apology for believing and spreading lies likely that caused needless deaths? Where is your apology for unleashing Trump’s brand of fascism on this country? Where is your apology for continuing to spread malicious lies on this board while never contributing anything positive? Your crazy politics continue to hurt millions in this country. Where is our apology for that? Pfizer admitted that they never tested the vax against transmittance. Trumps brand of fascism??? 🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️ the covid vax was and still is experimental and we all were the guinea pigs. I never spread lies that caused needless deaths. I don’t know where you get that from. Politics in general cause millions to be hurt in this country. I’m not apologizing for politicians doings. I’m not sure what malicious lies you are referring to on this board. The left leaning on this board have denied anyone who has a differing opinion any contribution.
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Post by mollycoddle on Nov 6, 2022 18:15:43 GMT
I understand you're selfish and self-righteous and have no grace for anyone who doesn't agree with you but expect grace to be extended to you by others. OMG!! 🤣🤣🤣. Do you even hear yourself? I was vilified on this board for my differing and ultimately correct views that masks and vaxes did not stop people from getting or giving covid. There is nothing self-righteous about having a different opinion that nobody gave me grace for or even considered looking into at the time as a viable option. Again, I’m selfish for having an opinion that you (general you) didn’t want to consider. The point of my post was that our differing and ultimately correct views that were shit upon by all of the “self-righteous” left shouldn’t get a free pass, but…oops, let’s just forgive and forget what was done to so many people who questioned the chokehold the government had on the country. What ultimately correct views were these? That vaccines don’t work? Please. Your party is the one that denied the results of a fair election, which is why your side lost about 60 court cases in 2021. Your side is the side that supported a guy who tried to stay in office, even though he lost, and all because he wanted the power and influence-and protection-of that office. Your side is the side who has curiously said little about the riot that tried to preempt certifying the results of a Presidential election. And your party is the party who has said even less about Trump’s theft of top secret documents. That alone should land his sorry self in prison.
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Post by cindosha on Nov 6, 2022 18:20:14 GMT
Hmm... There’s a pretty extensive list inflation crime immigration gas prices housing prices/ shortages homelessness addiction mental health Plenty of Republican talking points, attacks on Democrats, but no actual solutions. The only Republican solutions are voter suppression, voter intimidation, gerrymandering, political violence and attempts to overturn the results of an election. The Republicans literally have no platform, they can’t win voters with their policies, so they scare people, attack Democrats and cheat to stay in office. And the big one…HEALTHCARE. Where is the plan that the orange psycho said he had? As much outrage over as the repubs had over the ACA where is their plan to fix it? Outlaw abortions. That's it? Healthcare isn't even on repub radar anymore. That’s not the issue of my op. You are getting off track.
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Post by cindosha on Nov 6, 2022 18:28:49 GMT
OMG!! 🤣🤣🤣. Do you even hear yourself? I was vilified on this board for my differing and ultimately correct views that masks and vaxes did not stop people from getting or giving covid. There is nothing self-righteous about having a different opinion that nobody gave me grace for or even considered looking into at the time as a viable option. Again, I’m selfish for having an opinion that you (general you) didn’t want to consider. The point of my post was that our differing and ultimately correct views that were shit upon by all of the “self-righteous” left shouldn’t get a free pass, but…oops, let’s just forgive and forget what was done to so many people who questioned the chokehold the government had on the country. What ultimately correct views were these? That vaccines don’t work? Please. Your party is the one that denied the results of a fair election, which is why your side lost about 60 court cases in 2021. Your side is the side that supported a guy who tried to stay in office, even though he lost, and all because he wanted the power and influence-and protection-of that office. Your side is the side who has curiously said little about the riot that tried to preempt certifying the results of a Presidential election. And your party is the party who has said even less about Trump’s theft of top secret documents. That alone should land his sorry self in prison. The correct views I stated were that vaccines and masks didn’t stop transmission but this board refused to consider that was even remotely true. this post wasn’t about anything but the amnesty article. You and others made it about the other stuff.
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Post by cindosha on Nov 6, 2022 18:39:26 GMT
I think that it was determined pretty early on that vaccinations didn’t prevent people from getting or giving Covid but that it did do a lot to minimize how the virus impacted those who got it and ultimately the hospitals and medical facilities. And which is still the opinion of the medical community today. I am guessing you did not work for a hospital or in the medical field during the pandemic? Masks also did make a difference, again did not stop the spread, but did help (here is where the percent comes into play again). I and many others did not vilify you but gave you our opinions much like you did to us. The problem seems to be that because there were more that disagreed with you, you felt like a victim? There were obviously some that were over the top with their responses to you without a doubt. But to be fair your post are pretty biting and contentious, so it is pretty hard to have a discussion when replying to that type of comment from the get go. And you only seemed to respond back to those that “vilify” you not those that make general comments. I think that it was determined pretty early on that vaccinations didn’t prevent people from getting or giving Covid but that it did do a lot to minimize how the virus impacted those who got it and ultimately the hospitals and medical facilities.
yet it didn't stop anyone including biden of declaring it a pandemic of the unvaccinated and of people on this board of calling the unvaxed or anyone that had a differing view as selfish, uncaring and vile. or of people on this board of stating that those views were wrong and disinformation. I have never felt like a victim, I am strong and self assured, I'm just sad that most people here think there is only one correct view and only one side.... theirs. If masks make a difference, why aren't more people wearing them? I'll tell you why, because they don't and never did work for people with normal and healthy immune systems. If you are immunocompromised or have co-morbidities, then by all means wear one if you want. But don't expect everyone else to. And especially not kids.
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Post by hopemax on Nov 6, 2022 18:43:31 GMT
They can take their “apology” and shove it. Do you understand my point now? For the record, the author, Emily Oster is not asking for amnesty and an apology from *you.* She is an economist who led the charge FOR reopening. She is arguing that all the social distancing, school and other closures were wrong and so she should be forgiven for advocating this position. The amnesty she is seeking is for herself from people who argued in favor of continued closures, mask rules etc. Ie, the people within the medical community, people with medical conditions that place them in the high risk category of a poor covid outcome, people who believe in the benefits of public health, and people that remember that she gave a TED Talk that essentially argued that treating HIV in Africa is too expensive therefore we should let people die from AIDS and direct funds to malaria. The difference between her and you, apparently, is that she believes that novel infectious diseases do present a clear and present danger, and a high level of uncertainty which makes decision making difficult. And she believes in vaccines. So for that she as also attracted the ire of those who believe that the vaccines are dangerous and Covid is not. She is the one that is okay with people dieing "for the greater good." In this case arguing that delays in other child vaccinations and educational delays were too high a price to pay in an attempt to save lives or prevent disabling medical conditions due to the severity of their illness or development of long covid among older, vulnerable people. In the event of a future pandemic, she would be a potential ally for people who take the position that we should reject closures, or keeping people away from each other. But if she is not militant enough for you because she acknowledges there is an initial period where people are right to cautious due to the uncertainty, and in general, vaccinations are good public health strategy... well then carry on...
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Post by aj2hall on Nov 6, 2022 18:46:44 GMT
I understand you're selfish and self-righteous and have no grace for anyone who doesn't agree with you but expect grace to be extended to you by others. OMG!! 🤣🤣🤣. Do you even hear yourself? I was vilified on this board for my differing and ultimately correct views that masks and vaxes did not stop people from getting or giving covid. There is nothing self-righteous about having a different opinion that nobody gave me grace for or even considered looking into at the time as a viable option. Again, I’m selfish for having an opinion that you (general you) didn’t want to consider. The point of my post was that our differing and ultimately correct views that were shit upon by all of the “self-righteous” left shouldn’t get a free pass, but…oops, let’s just forgive and forget what was done to so many people who questioned the chokehold the government had on the country. No, your point of view was not scientifically correct. Masks and vaccines did slow the spread of the virus. Many schools that opened in the fall of 2021 without masks closed, switched to a mask policy or had widespread covid. www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7110e1.htmwww.usnews.com/news/education-news/articles/2021-09-24/schools-without-mask-requirements-more-likely-to-see-covid-19-outbreakswww.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8452116/
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Post by aj2hall on Nov 6, 2022 18:51:39 GMT
If the vaccines don’t work, why are severe Covid cases and deaths now a tiny fraction of what they were pre-vaccine? If masks and distancing don’t work, why did schools that enforced masking, like mine, have much lower rates of Covid than schools that made masks optional? The statement that the vaccine was “experimental” after mRNA technology had been studied in humans for 30 years continues to be the hallmark of someone whose “ideas” and “viewpoints” are based on conspiracy theories, not reality, and now you want an apology? Where is your apology for believing and spreading lies likely that caused needless deaths? Where is your apology for unleashing Trump’s brand of fascism on this country? Where is your apology for continuing to spread malicious lies on this board while never contributing anything positive? Your crazy politics continue to hurt millions in this country. Where is our apology for that? Pfizer admitted that they never tested the vax against transmittance. Trumps brand of fascism??? 🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️ the covid vax was and still is experimental and we all were the guinea pigs. I never spread lies that caused needless deaths. I don’t know where you get that from. Politics in general cause millions to be hurt in this country. I’m not apologizing for politicians doings. I’m not sure what malicious lies you are referring to on this board. The left leaning on this board have denied anyone who has a differing opinion any contribution. The point of the vaccine was to stop people from dying and prevent severe illness. The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are not experimental. Both were fully tested before given emergency use authorization, by the Trump administration. Both are no longer under emergency use, both are fully approved. More than 5 billion people worldwide have received Covid vaccinations. There is nothing experimental about the Pfizer and Moderna covid vaccines. www.npr.org/2021/08/23/1030271280/fda-gives-full-approval-to-pfizers-covid-19-vaccinewww.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/moderna-receives-full-us-approval-covid-19-vaccine-2022-01-31/www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/full-fda-approval-of-a-covid-19-vaccine-what-you-should-knowNo one is denying anyone's contributions. We're just countering your blatantly false accusations with actual, proven facts. This is not Fox. You can't just spew Republican talking points and falsehoods without someone correcting you or questioning you.
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Post by aj2hall on Nov 6, 2022 18:54:24 GMT
And the big one…HEALTHCARE. Where is the plan that the orange psycho said he had? As much outrage over as the repubs had over the ACA where is their plan to fix it? Outlaw abortions. That's it? Healthcare isn't even on repub radar anymore. That’s not the issue of my op. You are getting off track. You asked what issues and we responded. I will add to the list - the infrastructure plan that was long promised but never actually delivered by Republicans. The Democrats did successfully pass a popular infrastructure plan with the help of some Republicans.
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Post by aj2hall on Nov 6, 2022 19:06:39 GMT
I think that it was determined pretty early on that vaccinations didn’t prevent people from getting or giving Covid but that it did do a lot to minimize how the virus impacted those who got it and ultimately the hospitals and medical facilities. And which is still the opinion of the medical community today. I am guessing you did not work for a hospital or in the medical field during the pandemic? Masks also did make a difference, again did not stop the spread, but did help (here is where the percent comes into play again). I and many others did not vilify you but gave you our opinions much like you did to us. The problem seems to be that because there were more that disagreed with you, you felt like a victim? There were obviously some that were over the top with their responses to you without a doubt. But to be fair your post are pretty biting and contentious, so it is pretty hard to have a discussion when replying to that type of comment from the get go. And you only seemed to respond back to those that “vilify” you not those that make general comments. I think that it was determined pretty early on that vaccinations didn’t prevent people from getting or giving Covid but that it did do a lot to minimize how the virus impacted those who got it and ultimately the hospitals and medical facilities.
yet it didn't stop anyone including biden of declaring it a pandemic of the unvaccinated and of people on this board of calling the unvaxed or anyone that had a differing view as selfish, uncaring and vile. or of people on this board of stating that those views were wrong and disinformation. I have never felt like a victim, I am strong and self assured, I'm just sad that most people here think there is only one correct view and only one side.... theirs. If masks make a difference, why aren't more people wearing them? I'll tell you why, because they don't and never did work for people with normal and healthy immune systems. If you are immunocompromised or have co-morbidities, then by all means wear one if you want. But don't expect everyone else to. And especially not kids. As I recall, you stated at one point that you refused to wear a mask and didn't care about anyone else. To a lot of people, that's just selfish. It's not that difficult to wear a mask around other people. eta - this is what you said in Jan 2022, at the height of omicron People might not be wearing masks any longer in public but most health care facilities and dental offices still require them. And there's a reason surgical masks have long been used in operating rooms. They do work. Science only has one side. There is no "other side" to science. Your opinion that masks don't work is wrong, disinformation and factually inaccurate. www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2021/09/surgical-masks-covid-19.htmljamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2776536www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2007800www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31142-9/fulltext#%20
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Post by mollycoddle on Nov 6, 2022 19:09:28 GMT
What ultimately correct views were these? That vaccines don’t work? Please. Your party is the one that denied the results of a fair election, which is why your side lost about 60 court cases in 2021. Your side is the side that supported a guy who tried to stay in office, even though he lost, and all because he wanted the power and influence-and protection-of that office. Your side is the side who has curiously said little about the riot that tried to preempt certifying the results of a Presidential election. And your party is the party who has said even less about Trump’s theft of top secret documents. That alone should land his sorry self in prison. The correct views I stated were that vaccines and masks didn’t stop transmission but this board refused to consider that was even remotely true. this post wasn’t about anything but the amnesty article. You and others made it about the other stuff. And yet you want accountability. Just for certain things, though. Look, vaccines help to lessen the severity of Covid. Some people might not get Covid, or they might have a light case of Covid. But the elderly, the obese, and folks with underlying health issues are safer when getting vaccinated. Some of the myths about Covid are ludicrous: www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/facts.html?s_cid=11760:covid%20vaccine%20facts:sem.ga:p:RG:GM:gen:PTN:FY22Some folks do have problems with the vaccine, but according to what I have read, that is a relatively small percentage.
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Post by Gem Girl on Nov 6, 2022 19:12:03 GMT
We had plenty of information at the time. You all just refused to consider it. I know conservatives love to be outraged, but it’s time to move on from the 2020 election (that was not stolen) and what happened with covid in 2020. If you insist on looking back, please remember that Trump was in charge until Jan 2021. Outrage is what they use instead of a platform that would serve the populace, so they have something to spout off if they get invited to be on TV.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Nov 6, 2022 19:22:05 GMT
I think that it was determined pretty early on that vaccinations didn’t prevent people from getting or giving Covid but that it did do a lot to minimize how the virus impacted those who got it and ultimately the hospitals and medical facilities.
yet it didn't stop anyone including biden of declaring it a pandemic of the unvaccinated and of people on this board of calling the unvaxed or anyone that had a differing view as selfish, uncaring and vile. or of people on this board of stating that those views were wrong and disinformation. I have never felt like a victim, I am strong and self assured, I'm just sad that most people here think there is only one correct view and only one side.... theirs. If masks make a difference, why aren't more people wearing them? I'll tell you why, because they don't and never did work for people with normal and healthy immune systems. If you are immunocompromised or have co-morbidities, then by all means wear one if you want. But don't expect everyone else to. And especially not kids. As I recall, you stated at one point that you refused to wear a mask and didn't care about anyone else. To a lot of people, that's just selfish. It's not that difficult to wear a mask around other people. People might not be wearing masks any longer in public but most health care facilities and dental offices still require them. And there's a reason surgical masks have long been used in operating rooms. They do work. Science only has one side. There is no "other side" to science. Your opinion that masks don't work is wrong, disinformation and factually inaccurate. www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2021/09/surgical-masks-covid-19.htmljamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2776536www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2007800www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31142-9/fulltext#%20Also, we have to take into consideration that there were plenty of people who flat out refused to wear masks, or who didn’t wear them correctly. That would be like someone wearing a diaper on their head but wondering why their pants got wet if they peed themselves. If a product isn’t used as intended, people shouldn’t be surprised when it doesn’t work as advertised.
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Post by compeateropeator on Nov 6, 2022 19:23:16 GMT
I think that it was determined pretty early on that vaccinations didn’t prevent people from getting or giving Covid but that it did do a lot to minimize how the virus impacted those who got it and ultimately the hospitals and medical facilities. And which is still the opinion of the medical community today. I am guessing you did not work for a hospital or in the medical field during the pandemic? Masks also did make a difference, again did not stop the spread, but did help (here is where the percent comes into play again). I and many others did not vilify you but gave you our opinions much like you did to us. The problem seems to be that because there were more that disagreed with you, you felt like a victim? There were obviously some that were over the top with their responses to you without a doubt. But to be fair your post are pretty biting and contentious, so it is pretty hard to have a discussion when replying to that type of comment from the get go. And you only seemed to respond back to those that “vilify” you not those that make general comments. I think that it was determined pretty early on that vaccinations didn’t prevent people from getting or giving Covid but that it did do a lot to minimize how the virus impacted those who got it and ultimately the hospitals and medical facilities.
yet it didn't stop anyone including biden of declaring it a pandemic of the unvaccinated and of people on this board of calling the unvaxed or anyone that had a differing view as selfish, uncaring and vile. or of people on this board of stating that those views were wrong and disinformation. I have never felt like a victim, I am strong and self assured, I'm just sad that most people here think there is only one correct view and only one side.... theirs. If masks make a difference, why aren't more people wearing them? I'll tell you why, because they don't and never did work for people with normal and healthy immune systems. If you are immunocompromised or have co-morbidities, then by all means wear one if you want. But don't expect everyone else to. And especially not kids. Thanks for the reply. 😄 And I am glad you do not feel like a victim. However you do seem pretty intent on letting us know what you think and that you think your view is the correct one and that there is only one side…yours. So I guess I am not sure of the difference? I am a mask proponent. But now that we have things under “control” I have no issues with those who do not wish to use them in places that they are not required. But I do believe that they played a role in helping to minimize the spread during the height of the pandemic, and at that point even if it was a small percent it was worth it for the good of our country and communities, especially in schools. We hear so much about how the left is coddling our kids, but they also need to learn that we are all part of a community and that everyone needs to do their part to make it work. Masking taught kids to be strong and civil minded and that everything is not all about them. It is not a free for all. And now that kids have been able to get the vaccinations I am fine with them not being required in schools now. It is all about the big picture. Our hospitals are still requiring them, so there is obviously some benefit. I also did want to add that I am very sorry on the loss of your mother and aunt.
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Post by Merge on Nov 6, 2022 19:26:05 GMT
If the vaccines don’t work, why are severe Covid cases and deaths now a tiny fraction of what they were pre-vaccine? If masks and distancing don’t work, why did schools that enforced masking, like mine, have much lower rates of Covid than schools that made masks optional? The statement that the vaccine was “experimental” after mRNA technology had been studied in humans for 30 years continues to be the hallmark of someone whose “ideas” and “viewpoints” are based on conspiracy theories, not reality, and now you want an apology? Where is your apology for believing and spreading lies likely that caused needless deaths? Where is your apology for unleashing Trump’s brand of fascism on this country? Where is your apology for continuing to spread malicious lies on this board while never contributing anything positive? Your crazy politics continue to hurt millions in this country. Where is our apology for that? Pfizer admitted that they never tested the vax against transmittance. Trumps brand of fascism??? 🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️ the covid vax was and still is experimental and we all were the guinea pigs. I never spread lies that caused needless deaths. I don’t know where you get that from. Politics in general cause millions to be hurt in this country. I’m not apologizing for politicians doings. I’m not sure what malicious lies you are referring to on this board. The left leaning on this board have denied anyone who has a differing opinion any contribution. The Covid vax is not experimental. Full stop. That’s a lie, and insofar as that lie (which you continue to spread) prevented some people from getting vaccinated who later died of Covid, it’s a lie that got people killed needlessly. Trump tried to overthrow a free and fair election and continues to tell the lie of a “stolen” election daily. His lies have led to people being harassed, threatened, and killed. He has told lies about immigrants, educators, Democrats and others that have resulted in violence. Insofar as you support him and spread his lies and those of his surrogates, you are aiding his fascist tendencies and are complicit in the harm they cause. Still, you have never been denied the opportunity to contribute. You’re just mad because you believe the whackadoodle stuff you see online, but when you bring it here, people don’t give you the admiration you expect for being soooo much more knowledgeable 🙄and “doing your own research.” And that’s because most of us aren’t arrogant, deluded fools who think we know better than people who spend their lives studying the spread of disease. You are free to keep bringing links to the crazy people you substitute for actual news and well-informed opinion, but recognize that many here will correctly point out that you’re not the “strong and self-assured” rationalist you believe yourself to be. You’re a willing dupe, and part of the problem.
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Post by cindosha on Nov 6, 2022 19:59:33 GMT
OMG!! 🤣🤣🤣. Do you even hear yourself? I was vilified on this board for my differing and ultimately correct views that masks and vaxes did not stop people from getting or giving covid. There is nothing self-righteous about having a different opinion that nobody gave me grace for or even considered looking into at the time as a viable option. Again, I’m selfish for having an opinion that you (general you) didn’t want to consider. The point of my post was that our differing and ultimately correct views that were shit upon by all of the “self-righteous” left shouldn’t get a free pass, but…oops, let’s just forgive and forget what was done to so many people who questioned the chokehold the government had on the country. No, your point of view was not scientifically correct. Masks and vaccines did slow the spread of the virus. Many schools that opened in the fall of 2021 without masks closed, switched to a mask policy or had widespread covid. www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7110e1.htmwww.usnews.com/news/education-news/articles/2021-09-24/schools-without-mask-requirements-more-likely-to-see-covid-19-outbreakswww.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8452116/I am not wrong when I say that masks and vaxes did not stop people from getting or giving covid. The science proves that, otherwise, nobody that is masked or vaxed would be getting covid. I never said that they don’t slow the spread. I said that people who wore masks and are vaxed and boosted still get covid. When you post a link that disputes that, I will change my view.
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Post by cindosha on Nov 6, 2022 20:08:12 GMT
Pfizer admitted that they never tested the vax against transmittance. Trumps brand of fascism??? 🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️ the covid vax was and still is experimental and we all were the guinea pigs. I never spread lies that caused needless deaths. I don’t know where you get that from. Politics in general cause millions to be hurt in this country. I’m not apologizing for politicians doings. I’m not sure what malicious lies you are referring to on this board. The left leaning on this board have denied anyone who has a differing opinion any contribution. The Covid vax is not experimental. Full stop. That’s a lie, and insofar as that lie (which you continue to spread) prevented some people from getting vaccinated who later died of Covid, it’s a lie that got people killed needlessly. Trump tried to overthrow a free and fair election and continues to tell the lie of a “stolen” election daily. His lies have led to people being harassed, threatened, and killed. He has told lies about immigrants, educators, Democrats and others that have resulted in violence. Insofar as you support him and spread his lies and those of his surrogates, you are aiding his fascist tendencies and are complicit in the harm they cause. Still, you have never been denied the opportunity to contribute. You’re just mad because you believe the whackadoodle stuff you see online, but when you bring it here, people don’t give you the admiration you expect for being soooo much more knowledgeable 🙄and “doing your own research.” And that’s because most of us aren’t arrogant, deluded fools who think we know better than people who spend their lives studying the spread of disease. You are free to keep bringing links to the crazy people you substitute for actual news and well-informed opinion, but recognize that many here will correctly point out that you’re not the “strong and self-assured” rationalist you believe yourself to be. You’re a willing dupe, and part of the problem. The fact that the vax was created and distributed in less than a year made it experimental. I don’t contribute here for admiration. I’m not anywhere near that egotistical. I bring another viewpoint or opinion and if I link proof of something, it’s labeled fake news. It’s all what or who you believe. You however, seem to be unable or unwilling to see a point of view or different news source objectively. And unable to do so without an insult to who ever posts it.
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Post by cindosha on Nov 6, 2022 20:09:53 GMT
I think that it was determined pretty early on that vaccinations didn’t prevent people from getting or giving Covid but that it did do a lot to minimize how the virus impacted those who got it and ultimately the hospitals and medical facilities.
yet it didn't stop anyone including biden of declaring it a pandemic of the unvaccinated and of people on this board of calling the unvaxed or anyone that had a differing view as selfish, uncaring and vile. or of people on this board of stating that those views were wrong and disinformation. I have never felt like a victim, I am strong and self assured, I'm just sad that most people here think there is only one correct view and only one side.... theirs. If masks make a difference, why aren't more people wearing them? I'll tell you why, because they don't and never did work for people with normal and healthy immune systems. If you are immunocompromised or have co-morbidities, then by all means wear one if you want. But don't expect everyone else to. And especially not kids. Thanks for the reply. 😄 And I am glad you do not feel like a victim. However you do seem pretty intent on letting us know what you think and that you think your view is the correct one and that there is only one side…yours. So I guess I am not sure of the difference? I am a mask proponent. But now that we have things under “control” I have no issues with those who do not wish to use them in places that they are not required. But I do believe that they played a role in helping to minimize the spread during the height of the pandemic, and at that point even if it was a small percent it was worth it for the good of our country and communities, especially in schools. We hear so much about how the left is coddling our kids, but they also need to learn that we are all part of a community and that everyone needs to do their part to make it work. Masking taught kids to be strong and civil minded and that everything is not all about them. It is not a free for all. And now that kids have been able to get the vaccinations I am fine with them not being required in schools now. It is all about the big picture. Our hospitals are still requiring them, so there is obviously some benefit. I also did want to add that I am very sorry on the loss of your mother and aunt. Thank you. It was a terrible loss.
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Post by cindosha on Nov 6, 2022 20:24:11 GMT
The correct views I stated were that vaccines and masks didn’t stop transmission but this board refused to consider that was even remotely true. this post wasn’t about anything but the amnesty article. You and others made it about the other stuff. And yet you want accountability. Just for certain things, though. Look, vaccines help to lessen the severity of Covid. Some people might not get Covid, or they might have a light case of Covid. But the elderly, the obese, and folks with underlying health issues are safer when getting vaccinated. Some of the myths about Covid are ludicrous: www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/facts.html?s_cid=11760:covid%20vaccine%20facts:sem.ga:p:RG:GM:gen:PTN:FY22Some folks do have problems with the vaccine, but according to what I have read, that is a relatively small percentage. Again, I never said that the immunocompromised shouldn’t get the vaccine or wear a mask. I said that MY (general my) being masked or vaxed would not prevent YOU (general you) from getting covid. The vaccine, it turns out, only protects whomever gets it from having severe symptoms but even that is not guaranteed. My stance was always that if you want the vax and the 6 boosters, by all means do so. My not getting it will not affect you. There are many many people who have gotten mild, moderate and severe reactions from the vax. And lots who died from it. Young and healthy people with no previous medical issues.
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Post by Merge on Nov 6, 2022 20:28:19 GMT
The Covid vax is not experimental. Full stop. That’s a lie, and insofar as that lie (which you continue to spread) prevented some people from getting vaccinated who later died of Covid, it’s a lie that got people killed needlessly. Trump tried to overthrow a free and fair election and continues to tell the lie of a “stolen” election daily. His lies have led to people being harassed, threatened, and killed. He has told lies about immigrants, educators, Democrats and others that have resulted in violence. Insofar as you support him and spread his lies and those of his surrogates, you are aiding his fascist tendencies and are complicit in the harm they cause. Still, you have never been denied the opportunity to contribute. You’re just mad because you believe the whackadoodle stuff you see online, but when you bring it here, people don’t give you the admiration you expect for being soooo much more knowledgeable 🙄and “doing your own research.” And that’s because most of us aren’t arrogant, deluded fools who think we know better than people who spend their lives studying the spread of disease. You are free to keep bringing links to the crazy people you substitute for actual news and well-informed opinion, but recognize that many here will correctly point out that you’re not the “strong and self-assured” rationalist you believe yourself to be. You’re a willing dupe, and part of the problem. The fact that the vax was created and distributed in less than a year made it experimental. I don’t contribute here for admiration. I’m not anywhere near that egotistical. I bring another viewpoint or opinion and if I link proof of something, it’s labeled fake news. It’s all what or who you believe. You however, seem to be unable or unwilling to see a point of view or different news source objectively. And unable to do so without an insult to who ever posts it. The technology used to make the vax was - as has been pointed out to you numerous times - decades old. Not just a year. Not experimental. Horse-sized doses of ivermectin for humans, on the other hand - completely experimental. But y’all jumped right on that and got mad at those who didn’t agree with you. Random uncredentialed people spouting conspiracies on the internet are not a “different news source.” Your inability to differentiate credible sources from dubious ones does not mean the rest of us can’t see them objectively. It means that you can’t. And yes, I am definitely angry about the losses and violence that have occurred due to people like you spreading misinformation. At first I felt badly for people who had been misled, but as those people, like you, have doubled down and now have the unmitigated gall to suggest that you’ve been wronged somehow … in my opinion, you should get a lot worse than insults from a stranger on a message board. Y’all are the ones who should be begging for amnesty.
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Post by Merge on Nov 6, 2022 20:29:13 GMT
Again, I never said that the immunocompromised shouldn’t get the vaccine or wear a mask. I said that MY (general my) being masked or vaxed would not prevent YOU (general you) from getting covid. The vaccine, it turns out, only protects whomever gets it from having severe symptoms but even that is not guaranteed. My stance was always that if you want the vax and the 6 boosters, by all means do so. My not getting it will not affect you. There are many many people who have gotten mild, moderate and severe reactions from the vax. And lots who died from it. Young and healthy people with no previous medical issues. No. That is completely false. Again, your conspiracy media is leading you astray. www.cnn.com/2021/01/25/health/anti-vaccine-theories-undermine-vaccination
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Post by onelasttime on Nov 6, 2022 20:34:12 GMT
The Covid vax is not experimental. Full stop. That’s a lie, and insofar as that lie (which you continue to spread) prevented some people from getting vaccinated who later died of Covid, it’s a lie that got people killed needlessly. Trump tried to overthrow a free and fair election and continues to tell the lie of a “stolen” election daily. His lies have led to people being harassed, threatened, and killed. He has told lies about immigrants, educators, Democrats and others that have resulted in violence. Insofar as you support him and spread his lies and those of his surrogates, you are aiding his fascist tendencies and are complicit in the harm they cause. Still, you have never been denied the opportunity to contribute. You’re just mad because you believe the whackadoodle stuff you see online, but when you bring it here, people don’t give you the admiration you expect for being soooo much more knowledgeable 🙄and “doing your own research.” And that’s because most of us aren’t arrogant, deluded fools who think we know better than people who spend their lives studying the spread of disease. You are free to keep bringing links to the crazy people you substitute for actual news and well-informed opinion, but recognize that many here will correctly point out that you’re not the “strong and self-assured” rationalist you believe yourself to be. You’re a willing dupe, and part of the problem. The fact that the vax was created and distributed in less than a year made it experimental. I don’t contribute here for admiration. I’m not anywhere near that egotistical. I bring another viewpoint or opinion and if I link proof of something, it’s labeled fake news. It’s all what or who you believe. You however, seem to be unable or unwilling to see a point of view or different news source objectively. And unable to do so without an insult to who ever posts it. You are another one that needs to do your homework. Read this.. link” How Did the COVID-19 Vaccine Get Developed So Quickly?”Unlike the article you originally posted that is behind a paywall you can read this one.
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Post by mollycoddle on Nov 6, 2022 20:35:41 GMT
Again, I never said that the immunocompromised shouldn’t get the vaccine or wear a mask. I said that MY (general my) being masked or vaxed would not prevent YOU (general you) from getting covid. The vaccine, it turns out, only protects whomever gets it from having severe symptoms but even that is not guaranteed. My stance was always that if you want the vax and the 6 boosters, by all means do so. My not getting it will not affect you. There are many many people who have gotten mild, moderate and severe reactions from the vax. And lots who died from it. Young and healthy people with no previous medical issues. There have been some incidents of myocarditis in young men;I think it was about 1 in 1000. I did read that there is concern that boosters may have issues for this age group, and I believe that studies are being done. So I will not disagree with you about boosters, esp. for young men. I believe that the vaccine has saved lives. We need to learn more about the efficacy of boosters for young people. I am very happy that I was able to get booster shots, but it may be that we learn that they are not needed for every age group. Or, the boosters may be different for different age groups. Who knows? All of that is to say that IMO, scientists operated on what they knew at the time, which is always how these things work. I do not blame them for that. That would be foolish. We are lucky that the technology and know-how was available to develop vaccines as quickly as we did. ETA: here is a bit about myocarditis from the American Heart Assoc, if anyone is interested. www.heart.org/en/news/2022/09/06/myocarditis-from-covid-19-booster-rare-but-risk-highest-among-teen-boys-young-men
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Post by cindosha on Nov 6, 2022 20:40:18 GMT
They can take their “apology” and shove it. Do you understand my point now? For the record, the author, Emily Oster is not asking for amnesty and an apology from *you.* She is an economist who led the charge FOR reopening. She is arguing that all the social distancing, school and other closures were wrong and so she should be forgiven for advocating this position. The amnesty she is seeking is for herself from people who argued in favor of continued closures, mask rules etc. Ie, the people within the medical community, people with medical conditions that place them in the high risk category of a poor covid outcome, people who believe in the benefits of public health, and people that remember that she gave a TED Talk that essentially argued that treating HIV in Africa is too expensive therefore we should let people die from AIDS and direct funds to malaria. The difference between her and you, apparently, is that she believes that novel infectious diseases do present a clear and present danger, and a high level of uncertainty which makes decision making difficult. And she believes in vaccines. So for that she as also attracted the ire of those who believe that the vaccines are dangerous and Covid is not. She is the one that is okay with people dieing "for the greater good." In this case arguing that delays in other child vaccinations and educational delays were too high a price to pay in an attempt to save lives or prevent disabling medical conditions due to the severity of their illness or development of long covid among older, vulnerable people. In the event of a future pandemic, she would be a potential ally for people who take the position that we should reject closures, or keeping people away from each other. But if she is not militant enough for you because she acknowledges there is an initial period where people are right to cautious due to the uncertainty, and in general, vaccinations are good public health strategy... well then carry on... Everyone was scared at the beginning. But my point is that once things were shown to either not be working or were not contraindicated, protocols should have changed. In my opinion, they didn’t because politicians wanted control over people. And I will never not believe that.
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Post by Merge on Nov 6, 2022 20:47:12 GMT
For the record, the author, Emily Oster is not asking for amnesty and an apology from *you.* She is an economist who led the charge FOR reopening. She is arguing that all the social distancing, school and other closures were wrong and so she should be forgiven for advocating this position. The amnesty she is seeking is for herself from people who argued in favor of continued closures, mask rules etc. Ie, the people within the medical community, people with medical conditions that place them in the high risk category of a poor covid outcome, people who believe in the benefits of public health, and people that remember that she gave a TED Talk that essentially argued that treating HIV in Africa is too expensive therefore we should let people die from AIDS and direct funds to malaria. The difference between her and you, apparently, is that she believes that novel infectious diseases do present a clear and present danger, and a high level of uncertainty which makes decision making difficult. And she believes in vaccines. So for that she as also attracted the ire of those who believe that the vaccines are dangerous and Covid is not. She is the one that is okay with people dieing "for the greater good." In this case arguing that delays in other child vaccinations and educational delays were too high a price to pay in an attempt to save lives or prevent disabling medical conditions due to the severity of their illness or development of long covid among older, vulnerable people. In the event of a future pandemic, she would be a potential ally for people who take the position that we should reject closures, or keeping people away from each other. But if she is not militant enough for you because she acknowledges there is an initial period where people are right to cautious due to the uncertainty, and in general, vaccinations are good public health strategy... well then carry on... Everyone was scared at the beginning. But my point is that once things were shown to either not be working or were not contraindicated, protocols should have changed. In my opinion, they didn’t because politicians wanted control over people. And I will never not believe that. Believes that Covid vaccine was rushed; also believes that protocols should turn on a dime per her preference without adequate study.
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Post by cindosha on Nov 6, 2022 20:51:20 GMT
Again, I never said that the immunocompromised shouldn’t get the vaccine or wear a mask. I said that MY (general my) being masked or vaxed would not prevent YOU (general you) from getting covid. The vaccine, it turns out, only protects whomever gets it from having severe symptoms but even that is not guaranteed. My stance was always that if you want the vax and the 6 boosters, by all means do so. My not getting it will not affect you. There are many many people who have gotten mild, moderate and severe reactions from the vax. And lots who died from it. Young and healthy people with no previous medical issues. There have been some incidents of myocarditis in young men;I think it was about 1 in 1000. I did read that there is concern that boosters may have issues for this age group, and I believe that studies are being done. So I will not disagree with you about boosters, esp. for young men. I believe that the vaccine has saved lives. We need to learn more about the efficacy of boosters for young people. I am very happy that I was able to get booster shots, but it may be that we learn that they are not needed for every age group. Or, the boosters may be different for different age groups. Who knows? All of that is to say that IMO, scientists operated on what they knew at the time, which is always how these things work. I do not blame them for that. That would be foolish. We are lucky that the technology and know-how was available to develop vaccines as quickly as we did. My point is that despite contraindications to people who either do not need the vax/booster or shouldn’t have the vax/booster for whatever reason, people in that group were vilified and treated like shit even by this current president and countless politicians. It is not one size fits all. There are several doctors and scientists who tried to opine a different view and provide different studies and were accused of spreading misinformation, shut down on social media and fired from their jobs. And that information was withheld from the general public at the news media and politicians discretion.
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Post by Merge on Nov 6, 2022 20:51:37 GMT
Again, I never said that the immunocompromised shouldn’t get the vaccine or wear a mask. I said that MY (general my) being masked or vaxed would not prevent YOU (general you) from getting covid. The vaccine, it turns out, only protects whomever gets it from having severe symptoms but even that is not guaranteed. My stance was always that if you want the vax and the 6 boosters, by all means do so. My not getting it will not affect you. There are many many people who have gotten mild, moderate and severe reactions from the vax. And lots who died from it. Young and healthy people with no previous medical issues. There have been some incidents of myocarditis in young men;I think it was about 1 in 1000. I did read that there is concern that boosters may have issues for this age group, and I believe that studies are being done. So I will not disagree with you about boosters, esp. for young men. I believe that the vaccine has saved lives. We need to learn more about the efficacy of boosters for young people. I am very happy that I was able to get booster shots, but it may be that we learn that they are not needed for every age group. Or, the boosters may be different for different age groups. Who knows? All of that is to say that IMO, scientists operated on what they knew at the time, which is always how these things work. I do not blame them for that. That would be foolish. We are lucky that the technology and know-how was available to develop vaccines as quickly as we did. ETA: here is a bit about myocarditis from the apAmerican Heart Assoc, if anyone is interested. www.heart.org/en/news/2022/09/06/myocarditis-from-covid-19-booster-rare-but-risk-highest-among-teen-boys-young-menThe rate of myocarditis in young men was much higher for those infected with Covid than for those who were vaccinated. pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34341797/
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Post by cindosha on Nov 6, 2022 20:52:07 GMT
Everyone was scared at the beginning. But my point is that once things were shown to either not be working or were not contraindicated, protocols should have changed. In my opinion, they didn’t because politicians wanted control over people. And I will never not believe that. Believes that Covid vaccine was rushed; also believes that protocols should turn on a dime per her preference without adequate study. You believe what you want and I’ll do the same.
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Post by mollycoddle on Nov 6, 2022 20:52:50 GMT
Thanks for the reply. 😄 And I am glad you do not feel like a victim. However you do seem pretty intent on letting us know what you think and that you think your view is the correct one and that there is only one side…yours. So I guess I am not sure of the difference? I am a mask proponent. But now that we have things under “control” I have no issues with those who do not wish to use them in places that they are not required. But I do believe that they played a role in helping to minimize the spread during the height of the pandemic, and at that point even if it was a small percent it was worth it for the good of our country and communities, especially in schools. We hear so much about how the left is coddling our kids, but they also need to learn that we are all part of a community and that everyone needs to do their part to make it work. Masking taught kids to be strong and civil minded and that everything is not all about them. It is not a free for all. And now that kids have been able to get the vaccinations I am fine with them not being required in schools now. It is all about the big picture. Our hospitals are still requiring them, so there is obviously some benefit. I also did want to add that I am very sorry on the loss of your mother and aunt. Thank you. It was a terrible loss. I am sorry for your loss as well.
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