Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 10:02:30 GMT
As it happens the accusation that Israel has breached international law refers to the actions carried out in the West Bank not to Gaza as that original quote in scrappinghappy's post suggests. It's an accusation by The Human Right Watch. I didn't say I agreed with them! Seems the best thing for me to do is not to answer anyone's questions from now on! link I hope you don't shut down, I find this discussion interesting. Particularly the link you provided from Human Rights Watch. Here is what I find interesting about the organization. I was wondering if they condemn the actions of Hamas, the Palestinian Authority -- the terrorists -- as equally, and in as great detail, as they condemn the actions of Israel. (And there is no doubt that Israeli forces do make mistakes and cross the line sometimes.) So I looked for a story about the 3 dead teenagers. Here is the first line of the story: So ... terrorists don't qualify as an armed group? They seem more concerned that the Israeli forces detonated explosives they found at the home of one of the kidnapping suspects (you know, explosives that would have been used to kill Israelis) damaging the home and furniture, than they do about the dead teens. I tried to look up a few other names, Israeli's that were killed by Palestinian terrorists, and none of the more recent deaths were mentioned that I could find (except one, and again they condemned Israel for following their own laws, they didn't even call the death deplorable). The only conclusion I can draw is that Palestinian terrorists can kill all day long, and HRW will say that they are wrong to do that (in a rather perfunctory manner and only sometimes), but only the Israeli's are condemned by Human Rights Watch in great detail. If you could point out where I'm wrong, I'd appreciate it. I didn't spend hours on this, but I just don't think it casts HRW in a very good light. I haven't read all of HRW Becky. I came across it when I was searching the source of the quote in scrappinghappy's original post. I wanted to know who had actually accused Israel. I have heard of them being quoted on other stories,not related to this so the name wasn't unfamiliar. I'm not sure if it's needed for someone in their position to investigate terrorist though.....surely every right minded,intelligent person doesn't need to be told that ALL terrorist haven't even heard of human rights...isn't that a part of being a terrorist....the lack of humanity. I've only had a quick read through this morning ( I'll read more of what they cover later) It does look as if there are a few condemnations on there regarding Hamas and human rights violation over the course of a few years, here's a couple that I just came across very quickly. So it does seem that they do cover both sides. Hamas report a whitewashRockets unlawfully target Israeli civilians
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Post by CarolinaGirl71 on Jul 18, 2014 12:29:42 GMT
Interesting video one of my friends posted on Facebook. I haven't been back through all ten pages of this thread to see if it's been posted previously, but I found it very straightforward and interesting. www.prageruniversity.com/Political-Science/Middle-East-Problem.htm [HASH].U8kRyBaZNzk ETA - there is a red banner at the top of the page that says "Interested in learning more about the Middle East conflict? Click here" - that's where the video can be found. It's five minutes long.
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Post by swtpeasmom on Jul 18, 2014 12:47:44 GMT
I-95 - stay safe!
I've been reading this thread, and appreciate all the information everyone has provided. It has helped me understand this conflict so much more, as well as prompted me to do my own research...
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Post by leftturnonly on Jul 18, 2014 13:32:32 GMT
I can't believe anyone could possibly think that the sentence I have bolded would be justification in any battle. I thought we ( general we) were better than that........tit for tat ? Do you really think that...... because you've bombed our children so we're going to bomb yours .......is the way forward. That is Unf*%$£^* believable and brings the other side, morally and by their actions, down to the same level as the terrorists. When it comes to defending one's self, one's family, one's home, and one's country, the priority is defense. If that can be done in a sophisticated way that allows the enemy their lives and their dignity, fantastic. When in the history of ever has a nation forever hated and under attack done more to preserve the innocent lives of those trying to kill them? That's it. The bottom line. *edited If Israelis en masse just up and left the country of Isarel to the Palestinians, just what do you think would happen? Would they walk in and take over the massive irrigation systems allowing the nation to thrive? Would they throw open the doors to the schools allowing the people to become educated? Would they operate in the sterile hospitals and give their citizens the best care available? Or would they destroy every single thing that was built by the Israelis that enable them to thrive in the dessert? One has only to look to the thriving flower industry they were left to see what the answer was before. And then what? Those in authority would still need to create an enemy to hate so they could subordinate those they rule. And they would blame the Jews as they did so. I am just never going to catch up on this thread until its dead and buried....
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Post by leftturnonly on Jul 18, 2014 14:00:06 GMT
I agree with you. I completely disagree that the actions we've been discussing are equivalent.
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Dani-Mani
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,709
Jun 28, 2014 17:36:35 GMT
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Post by Dani-Mani on Jul 18, 2014 14:03:21 GMT
Heartbreaking. Several journalists were in the area and all were saying the attack was unprovoked. This is when I start to have problems with what Isreal is doing, even if it's an unpopular opinion. There was no reason those babies had to die.
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Post by lucyg on Jul 18, 2014 14:59:37 GMT
Heartbreaking. Several journalists were in the area and all were saying the attack was unprovoked. This is when I start to have problems with what Isreal is doing, even if it's an unpopular opinion. There was no reason those babies had to die. The deaths of those four Palestinian boys are a tragedy. But if you can read this entire thread, associated links and videos, all of our explanations about the history and the circumstances and the choices that have to be made, and your takeaway is that Israel (correct spelling) killed four Palestinian boys for no reason, I give up. I don't even know why we bother.
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Deleted
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Oct 6, 2024 22:46:48 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 15:07:37 GMT
When Hamas began shelling Israel, they committed an act of war. The unfortunate truth about war is that sometimes - well, most of the time - innocent civilians die. Hamas knows this. And still they commit these acts.
It's been discussed time and time again in this thread the measures Israel takes to avoid targeting civilians. It's also been discussed how Hamas tries to increase casualties among their own population to use as propaganda. Their concern is NOT with keeping their own citizens as safe as possible. They make them as vulnerable as possible.
The deaths of those four boys is indeed tragic. I can't even imagine. But honestly, does no fault lie with the Palestinians here, specifically Hamas?
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Dani-Mani
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 28, 2014 17:36:35 GMT
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Post by Dani-Mani on Jul 18, 2014 15:09:28 GMT
Really Lucy? Where did I say that's all I got out of this thread? Please don't put words in my mouth.
No wonder some people wanted to bow out of this thread. I'm can't even express an opinion without being jumped on because, heaven forbid, it doesn't support the majority opinion.
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Dani-Mani
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,709
Jun 28, 2014 17:36:35 GMT
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Post by Dani-Mani on Jul 18, 2014 15:11:49 GMT
When Hamas began shelling Israel, they committed an act of war. The unfortunate truth about war is that sometimes - well, most of the time - innocent civilians die. Hamas knows this. And still they commit these acts. It's been discussed time and time again in this thread the measures Israel takes to avoid targeting civilians. It's also been discussed how Hamas tries to increase casualties among their own population to use as propaganda. Their concern is NOT with keeping their own citizens as safe as possible. They make them as vulnerable as possible. The deaths of those four boys is indeed tragic. I can't even imagine. But honestly, does no fault lie with the Palestinians here, specifically Hamas? For these particular deaths? I think the general consensus is absolutely not. It's interesting how many Americans are very pro Israel. I have a number of friends from other countries, specifically the UK, and many of them are not very supportive of Israel at all. I wonder why this is?
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Post by leftturnonly on Jul 18, 2014 15:14:40 GMT
When Hamas began shelling Israel, they committed an act of war. The unfortunate truth about war is that sometimes - well, most of the time - innocent civilians die. Hamas knows this. And still they commit these acts. It's been discussed time and time again in this thread the measures Israel takes to avoid targeting civilians. It's also been discussed how Hamas tries to increase casualties among their own population to use as propaganda. Their concern is NOT with keeping their own citizens as safe as possible. They make them as vulnerable as possible. The deaths of those four boys is indeed tragic. I can't even imagine. But honestly, does no fault lie with the Palestinians here, specifically Hamas? For these particular deaths? I think the general consensus is absolutely not. It's interesting how many Americans are very pro Israel. I have a number of friends from other countries, specifically the UK, and many of them are not very supportive of Israel at all. I wonder why this is? If Hamas was not engaged in warfare against Israel, there would have been no firing that caused the death of those boys. Why? I think part of it is because many of us in the US identify with Israel.
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Deleted
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Oct 6, 2024 22:46:48 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 15:16:58 GMT
So all the casualties in Gaza are the fault of the Israelis, who were attacked? It's not like the Israelis said, "Hey, there's some kids, let's target them." Those children were in the wrong place at the wrong time. But as I stated before, in war it's usually the innocents who suffer. And it wasn't Israel who started this war.
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Dani-Mani
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,709
Jun 28, 2014 17:36:35 GMT
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Post by Dani-Mani on Jul 18, 2014 15:35:54 GMT
For these particular deaths? I think the general consensus is absolutely not. It's interesting how many Americans are very pro Israel. I have a number of friends from other countries, specifically the UK, and many of them are not very supportive of Israel at all. I wonder why this is? Why? I think part of it is because many of us in the US identify with Israel. But again, why? I do find it strange that the US is pretty much the only country in the Western World that holds positive views of Israel. I checked several resources--the rest of the world does not like Israel, and many in the UK will go as far as saying they "abhor" them. My initial post was that I felt the media was biased and that I couldn't get a good idea about this conflict because of this bias. I've read several UK papers and watched a few broadcasts and they report this conflict very differently than our media does. It's not like these developed nations are exactly pro-Hamas, because they're obviously not. But why do we like a country that so many countries similar to us dislike so much? There's got to be some history behind all of this that really gets into the heart of why so many developed countries refuse to align with Israel.
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Dani-Mani
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,709
Jun 28, 2014 17:36:35 GMT
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Post by Dani-Mani on Jul 18, 2014 15:51:36 GMT
Why? I think part of it is because many of us in the US identify with Israel. But again, why? I do find it strange that the US is pretty much the only country in the Western World that holds positive views of Israel. I checked several resources--the rest of the world does not like Israel, and many in the UK will go as far as saying they "abhor" them. My initial post was that I felt the media was biased and that I couldn't get a good idea about this conflict because of this bias. I've read several UK papers and watched a few broadcasts and they report this conflict very differently than our media does. It's not like these developed nations are exactly pro-Hamas, because they're obviously not. But why do we like a country that so many countries similar to us dislike so much? There's got to be some history behind all of this that really gets into the heart of why so many people in developed countries refuse to align with Israel.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jul 18, 2014 15:53:01 GMT
Why? I think part of it is because many of us in the US identify with Israel. But again, why? I do find it strange that the US is pretty much the only country in the Western World that holds positive views of Israel. I checked several resources--the rest of the world does not like Israel, and many in the UK will go as far as saying they "abhor" them. My initial post was that I felt the media was biased and that I couldn't get a good idea about this conflict because of this bias. I've read several UK papers and watched a few broadcasts and they report this conflict very differently than our media does. It's not like these developed nations are exactly pro-Hamas, because they're obviously not. But why do we like a country that so many countries similar to us dislike so much? There's got to be some history behind all of this that really gets into the heart of why so many developed countries refuse to align with Israel. I have a faith that at its heart is Jewish. I have a similar understanding of what is important - namely, I believe in the same God and I believe in the wonder of each individual human life. The persistent acts to eliminate Jews throughout all time is not justified..... and your comment fishing for that justification is a backhanded way of bringing in milennias of perceived wrongdoing.
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Dani-Mani
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,709
Jun 28, 2014 17:36:35 GMT
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Post by Dani-Mani on Jul 18, 2014 15:58:38 GMT
But again, why? I do find it strange that the US is pretty much the only country in the Western World that holds positive views of Israel. I checked several resources--the rest of the world does not like Israel, and many in the UK will go as far as saying they "abhor" them. My initial post was that I felt the media was biased and that I couldn't get a good idea about this conflict because of this bias. I've read several UK papers and watched a few broadcasts and they report this conflict very differently than our media does. It's not like these developed nations are exactly pro-Hamas, because they're obviously not. But why do we like a country that so many countries similar to us dislike so much? There's got to be some history behind all of this that really gets into the heart of why so many developed countries refuse to align with Israel. I have a faith that at its heart is Jewish. I have a similar understanding of what is important - namely, I believe in the same God and I believe in the wonder of each individual human life. The persistent acts to eliminate Jews throughout all time is not justified..... and your comment fishing for that justification is a backhanded way of bringing in milennias of perceived wrongdoing. You mean my comment to understand why other people, similar to me, don't hold a favorable view of this country? Oh please. I believe in God, too. I believe ALL human life is sacred, no matter what religion they are. I understand Dottie's hesitation to post her views on this thread. You simply cannot share an opposing view here without being questioned about your loyalty. I have taken no side in this conflict and have no loyalities. I don't support the massacre of an entire nation, but I also cannot support that nation massacring the nation attempting to wipe them out. Two wrongs have never made a right, and it doesn't here either. And with that, like Dottie, I'm bowing out of this thread.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jul 18, 2014 16:07:00 GMT
I have a faith that at its heart is Jewish. I have a similar understanding of what is important - namely, I believe in the same God and I believe in the wonder of each individual human life. The persistent acts to eliminate Jews throughout all time is not justified..... and your comment fishing for that justification is a backhanded way of bringing in milennias of perceived wrongdoing. You mean my comment to understand why other people, similar to me, don't hold a favorable view of this country? Oh please. I believe in God, too. I believe ALL human life is sacred, no matter what religion they are. I understand Dottie's hesitation to post her views on this thread. You simply cannot share an opposing view here without being questioned about your loyalty. I have taken no side in this conflict and have no loyalities. I don't support the massacre of an entire nation, but I also cannot support that nation massacring the nation attempting to wipe them out. Two wrongs have never made a right, and it doesn't here either. And with that, like Dottie, I'm bowing out of this thread. You asked a question. I answered. You don't like the answer I gave and then said that there's no room for an opposing view. That's a bit ironic. I think that it would be a fine idea to begin a different thread and ask your questions why the Jews are so hated. While I-95 is having rockets exploding over her head, I think it's beyond rude to ask that on this thread.
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Deleted
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Oct 6, 2024 22:46:48 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 16:35:42 GMT
Dani-Mani, throughout history the Jewish people have been persecuted all around the world. Many European countries conducted purges to get Jews out of their lands. Why? Because they were Jewish. Sadly, I really don't believe it's changed all that much over time.
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mapchic
Junior Member
Posts: 62
Jun 26, 2014 0:16:00 GMT
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Post by mapchic on Jul 18, 2014 17:05:48 GMT
I just read a column by a lawyer and Iraq war veteran which I thought might add to this conversation. Hamas Bears the Moral and Legal Responsibility for Every Dead Palestinian ChildYes, this is from a conservative publication (National Review). I don't think that negates the truth of what is said here. The author is a Harvard Law graduate and Captain in the Army Reserve serving as a Brigade Judge Advocate. This means that he is an expert in questions of the laws of war - more so than any of us (unless someone here has been holding out on us ).
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oh yvonne
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,062
Jun 26, 2014 0:45:23 GMT
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Post by oh yvonne on Jul 18, 2014 17:24:58 GMT
I don't support the massacre of an entire nation, but I also cannot support that nation massacring the nation attempting to wipe them out. Two wrongs have never made a right, and it doesn't here either.And with that, like Dottie, I'm bowing out of this thread. CANT EDIT OUT the "leftturnonly said"...Those are Dani Mani's words above: So....I'm confused. What exactly is yours and Dotties' point? Seriously. You are mad at Israel because...what? What would you have them do then?
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Post by BeckyTech on Jul 18, 2014 17:43:19 GMT
I believe ALL human life is sacred, no matter what religion they are. ... I don't support the massacre of an entire nation, but I also cannot support that nation massacring the nation attempting to wipe them out. Two wrongs have never made a right, and it doesn't here either. By logic, your first statement aligns you with the beliefs of many of us on this thread -- and Israel. We/they also believe that human life is sacred, no matter what religion they are, hence their tremendous efforts to minimize civilian deaths. The Palestinians don't have any such belief, not even for their own people. I kind of dropped my jaw at your second statement. I can't believe that people think that Israel is engaged in a "massacre" in any way, shape, or form. A massacre is: "an indiscriminate and brutal slaughter of people; [to] deliberately and violently kill (a large number of people)." Israel is trying to take out rocket launchers and weapons stores (deliberately placed in high-population areas) in order to protect themselves. Military actions aren't perfect and innocent deaths are mourned by rational people. But, and this is a big but, Israel didn't start launching rockets in the first place, the Palestinians initiated this action (as they always do). Which is also why so many believe that they deserve a great deal of the blame for those childrens' deaths. Israel is hardly engaged in a massacre. Do you notice another difference? Everyone thinks those deaths are tragic, including Israel, and they have said so. No one participating on this thread is celebrating those deaths, they are horrible. Unlike the deaths of the Israeli teens whose deaths were celebrated in the streets by the Palestinians. I also have to wonder about how many deaths on the Palestinian side are at their own hands. This past Sunday they launched a rocket that fell short and took out the power to 70,000 homes in Gaza. The article I read (as of Sunday) said that about 38 rockets they have fired have fallen short. I wonder just how many of their own people they have killed. I also (politely) disagree with your assessment that the rest of the world is on the side of the Palestinians. Just recently, in looking for some information, I've run across more than one article critical of them and their aggression and lack of care for their own people. Here is one from Arab News: That's not the only one I've seen. Even those in the Arab world recognize that Hamas brought this on themselves: Another one:That particular article/blog (?) has several quotes from Egyptian newspapers/editorials. I think you would agree that Egypt can hardly be called a staunch ally of Israel, yet their press seems to be increasingly critical of the Palestinians disregard for life and acknowledging that Israel has every right to defend itself.
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conchita
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,141
Jul 1, 2014 11:25:58 GMT
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Post by conchita on Jul 18, 2014 18:20:13 GMT
I don't support the massacre of an entire nation, but I also cannot support that nation massacring the nation attempting to wipe them out. Two wrongs have never made a right, and it doesn't here either.And with that, like Dottie, I'm bowing out of this thread. CANT EDIT OUT the "leftturnonly said"...Those are Dani Mani's words above: So....I'm confused. What exactly is yours and Dotties' point? Seriously. You are mad at Israel because...what? What would you have them do then? I'd really like to know the answer to that question, too. If Israel stopped defensive measures there would be mass casualties among the civilian sector. That's when the real massacre would begin. I can't see any other alternative the Israelis have BUT to defend themselves. So I'm honestly curious because I can't come up with anything other than they lay down their weapons, surrender and be enslaved/massacred once more. What should they do?
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Post by I-95 on Jul 18, 2014 18:54:29 GMT
I totally agree with your first statement. I haven't seen a single pro-Israeli poster who has claimed anything different.
Now, your second statement....WTF? Do you actually believe, despite massive evidence to the contrary, that Israel is massacring the Palestinians? I'm gobsmacked. Actually, I can't believe you wrote that. you're a whole lot smarter than that.
Both you and Dotty have stated several times that you empathize with the Palestinians, and find what Israel is doing to be wrong (as in two wrongs don't make a right) but neither of you have supported your position with anything other than a personal opinion and some pro-Palestinian propaganda. It leaves me unclear as to what your position really is... If you think Israel is wrong, can you explain how they should respond to the very real danger Hamas poses to Israeli citizens? Please keep in mind that before Israel fired the first shot back at Gaza, Hamas had spent two days launching 196 rockets into Israel. Does Israel not have an obligation to her own citizens to protect them and stop Hamas? Is Israel wrong to have built bomb shelters so citizens have some place to go when they're under attack? Are they wrong to have built an Iron Dome over their cities to keep their citizens safe? Are they wrong to pass a law that requires every new home built, and every renovation done since 2001, to have a bombproof room? Is Israel to blame for not letting its citizens die in rocket attacks? Please tell me what Hamas has done to protect their citizens from this alleged massacre Israel is perpetrating on them?
Ummm, those two statements would seem to conflict with each other. How can you take no side, and yet hold an unfavorable view of Israel? That's seems, to me anyway, that you have taken a side.
What, exactly, is it that you don't like about Israel?
Would you mind sharing the sources you checked that shows the rest of the world does not like Israel? I'd truly be interested in reading those myself. I'm not sure what broadcasts you are watching that report the conflict very differently from the US media, but here in Israel, we get Fox, MSNBC, SKY News(UK) the BBC, France24, and a variety of Russian language as well as Hebrew and Arabic news channels. I don't usually watch the Russian and Arabic language stations because I don't speak either of those languages, but the rest of the news I watch is pretty much similar reporting as the US...some channels lean towards Hamas and some lean towards Israel.
As to the 4 children killed on the beach. OMG, every mother in Israel is in complete sympathy with the Palestinian people over the loss of their babies. It was a tragedy and nobody here is anything but sick about it. Regardless of how we feel, it was not a deliberate act of murder. Nobody believes the children, or their family deserved to suffer such a horrific fate. The soldiers responsible will also have to live with that for the rest of their lives. Every time they look at their own children they will remember these children...but the one thing no Israeli ever does is what Palestinians will do, and that's enter the home of an Israeli family and murder every single family member, as happened to the Fogel family in 2011. The parents and 3 children, including a 3 month old baby were slaughtered in their own home. They cut the throat of a 3 month old baby!! And Palestinians danced in the street....tell me again why you feel such empathy for a Nation who would condone this type of action...
And finally, nobody is questioning your sharing of an opposing view, but people are asking you to explain why you think Israel is unjustified in the actions she takes to protect her citizens. That you have not explained, and I for one, would love to hear you expound on that.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jul 18, 2014 19:32:00 GMT
Ummm, those two statements would seem to conflict with each other. How can you take no side, and yet hold an unfavorable view of Israel? That's seems, to me anyway, that you have taken a side. Yeah, it sure seems that way to me, too.
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Post by lucyg on Jul 18, 2014 19:35:08 GMT
Or, in other words, and as is usually the case: Israel is held to a very different standard from the Palestinians.
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Post by BeckyTech on Jul 18, 2014 19:53:20 GMT
Why? I think part of it is because many of us in the US identify with Israel. But again, why? Because at its core, Hamas and the Palestinian governments that came before it are nothing more than a hate group. That's why. Their first order of business is to "kill all the Jews" it doesn't matter who they are: women, men, children, civilians, combatants, just kill them all. Indiscriminate hate. Sure, they cloak their purpose in loftier goals, like attaining a "homeland" but history shows where those offers were rejected out of hand because they stated that they wanted the whole thing and nothing else would do. They state that they want jobs and industries for their people but look what happened when an entire industry was handed to them on a silver platter. But that's only the second order of business. The first order of business is to hate and kill. Look at history and you will see the real reason the Palestinians foster hatred. It's been done throughout the ages -- and very successfully so. The Russian aristocracy/government, the Poles, the Nazis, and the Arab world have all done it. Their populations were/are poor and hungry and it makes for a great diversion to the poor and largely uneducated populace: "it's not our fault (that we made poor decisions and amassed wealth for ourselves in lieu of investing in the economy), it's their fault! Be angry at the Jews, it's all their fault!" It's a very successful tactic to divert the population's anger away from the people who actually caused the problem -- and cannot solve it. Look at the KKK in this country, another hate group. "The civil war was fought on behalf of the black population, they are the reason you are poor and hungry and the country is in chaos" has become "they are taking away your jobs, they are inferior, they this, they that." Who does that appeal to? The poor and uneducated, for the most part. They aren't going to blame themselves, after all, finger pointing is so much easier than actually working towards your stated goal, and diverting anger to someone else for your own shortcomings is a tried and true tactic. By and large Americans don't take kindly to hate groups (thankfully) so that's my take on your question of why so many Americans ally themselves with Israel instead of the Palestinians.
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lynm
Shy Member
Posts: 29
Location: London Town
Jun 26, 2014 11:09:28 GMT
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Post by lynm on Jul 18, 2014 20:37:14 GMT
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Post by leftturnonly on Jul 18, 2014 20:54:28 GMT
From your first link, lynm...
So, this only applies to the Israelis and not the Palestinians, the people who are actually brutally engaging in trying to kill all the Jewish snakes.
And this is where the argument is fatally flawed.
The Jews did not go throughout the streets of Germany and throw the Germans into concentration camps. The Israelis are not going throughout the streets of Gaza and tossing babies onto swords in front of their mothers and then putting the families in concentration camps or executing them on the spot.
There is no comparison.
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Post by lucyg on Jul 18, 2014 21:29:56 GMT
"we are never going to agree on this subject, but as human beings surely we can all see that this indiscriminate killing has to stop." --lynm
WHAT indiscriminate killing? Israel isn't trying to indiscriminately kill whatever Palestinians it can manage to target ... that is what Hamas does to Israelis. Israel tries to target carefully but doesn't always succeed, often but not always due to Palestinian choices. Israel feels bad and apologizes when it kills the wrong people; it prosecutes Israelis who murder Palestinians.
There is a definite cognitive dissonance among some people and in some parts of the world. Palestinian suicide bomber blows up Israeli bus or pizza parlor or nightclub, killing dozens; Palestinians dance in the streets in celebration = ho hum. Israel makes targeted strikes to try and take out the weapons that are targeting its people or the leaders who encourage mass murder, some civilians die in the process; Israel investigates, apologizes, tries to do better = they're all a bunch of war criminals.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
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conchita
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,141
Jul 1, 2014 11:25:58 GMT
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Post by conchita on Jul 18, 2014 21:44:36 GMT
Regarding the first link, I would never burn my American passport over some of the idiots we have in our government. Nor would I burn it over some disgusting tweets from teens. I have more respect and love for my country than that. So I don't agree with her stance. She's not making her point. And again, it's very clear in that article that the finger is pointing at Israel as if they are the ones shooting off rockets left and right. Oh, wait. That's Hamas. It seems that keeps getting left out for some reason. Hamas is launching rockets into Israel. At Israeli citizens. Rockets. Lots of them. I also cannot agree with the "indiscriminate killing" you are attributing to the Israelis. But we can agree that we most likely will not agree on this subject. We can also agree that there have been too many innocent lives lost. Without pointing fingers or attributing blame on one side or the other. Too many innocents have died. And that's why I pray for peace in Israel.
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