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Post by iteach3rdgrade on Jul 19, 2014 14:40:26 GMT
Honestly? Israel doesn't feel obligated to defend and justify what they are doing. The are protecting their own citizens, why should they have to defend that to any sentient person? It's funny you should ask that question though. Just last night I was saying to DH that Israel needs a better PR department to counteract some of the nonsense that is being spewed on hate sites. I had been reading a FB page of a Palestinian in Gaza. For the last two weeks he has been posting pictures of dead babies and children covered with blood...dozens and dozens of them. It is truly a visual horror story and i can see where people would get the idea that the Palestinians are beaten down by an aggressive neighbor. He posted a photo of a child drinking out of a public water faucet and commented on how Israel is denying water. The people commenting were saying 'Damn Israel' and other more ugly things. Israel is supplying Gaza with water, and plenty of it. Then he posted a video of his home getting blown up....and I burst out laughing...not because his home was targeted, but because the video is shot from about 3 blocks away and for the first 60 seconds it does nothing but focus on house, then an incoming rocket blows it up. The comments were blasting Israel for their inhumanity and blaming them for the troubles. What NOBODY asked was 'HTH did you know to get 3 blocks away from your home, and have a hand held video camera trained on the house, 60 seconds before it blew up?' The answer to that is the inhuman Israelis called his stupid ass and told him to get out of the house because they were going to blow it up. He managed to grab his video camera, get 3 blocks away and film the rocket landing. He claims to be a simple civilian....yeah right, Israel only targets the homes of well known Hamas members...but do any of his International followers stop and ask questions? Nope, they just blame Israel. One of the things Israel will NEVER do, is publish photos of dead babies, or even dead soldiers. It is those types of photos that get people all riled up and the Palestinians know it, so they post the most bloody, graphic photos they can find (and it doesn't bother them one bit if the photos are faked, or they are children who were killed in Syria, or whether they were staged with fake blood, they just want to influence people to hate Israel) I am grateful that Israel does not stoop to that level, but it doesn't help our world image. As evidenced by some of the posts in this very thread, one can explain over and over how Israel conducts herself, and how the Palestinians conduct themselves. We can tell people until we're blue in the face that any Palestinian civilian casualty is a tragedy we wish didn't have to happen....and people will still say 'OK, fine, but why do you kill those poor people?' I will quote Benjamin Netanyahu again... If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. Thank you for explaining that. It's what I kind of thought, but wasn't sure. Then part of me thinks that when this negative propaganda is what is seen that it isn't helpful for Israel, but people on their side know the truth so I guess that is what matters.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jul 19, 2014 14:40:34 GMT
lynm - Where do you live?
Do you live in the US? Isn't it time you stopped occupying the land and give it back?
Indiscriminate is defined by you as narrowly limited targeting, with pre-warning, by the Israelis and the wildly random, continual shots being fired by Gaza into the Israeli civilian population isn't indiscriminate.
< Meaning that these rockets fired by Palestinians are discriminating, i.e. the Israeli children are openly acceptable targets. >
The US & UK are not smuggling rockets into Israel through elaborate tunnels that are coveted more than the lives of the children above them, yet these are the countries you chose to think are in the wrong.
You don't need to look back into history, you need to look in the mirror today and examine just those first sentiments.
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Post by BeckyTech on Jul 19, 2014 14:40:36 GMT
Most notably absent from the pro-Palestinian stance are the long, long list of acts of terrorism against Israel. You would think by reading these comments that Israel's actions have occurred in a vacuum.
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Deleted
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Oct 7, 2024 0:20:33 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2014 14:49:27 GMT
Most notably absent from the pro-Palestinian stance are the long, long list of acts of terrorism against Israel. You would think by reading these comments that Israel's actions occurred in a vacuum. No kidding. I heard on the news yesterday that the number of rockets fired into Israel from Gaza in the last 10 days alone was over 1,500. Thankfully they have the Iron Dome which has protected the Israeli population successfully. The death toll is so unbalanced not because Hamas isn't trying each and every day to kill as many Israelis as it can.
If Hamas were to STOP throwing rockets into Israel this would end.
But Hamas does not want to stop. Their hatred of Israel and her right to exist is much more important than the lives of the people in Gaza.
Netanyahu had another great quote...it was something like "Israel uses weapons to defend the people...Hamas uses its people to defend the weapons" Just goes to show the priorities of both groups.
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Post by BeckyTech on Jul 19, 2014 14:57:11 GMT
Most notably absent from the pro-Palestinian stance are the long, long list of acts of terrorism against Israel. You would think by reading these comments that Israel's actions occurred in a vacuum. No kidding. I heard on the news yesterday that the number of rockets fired into Israel from Gaza in the last 10 days alone was over 1,500. Thankfully they have the Iron Dome which has protected the Israeli population successfully. The death toll is so unbalanced not because Hamas isn't trying each and every day to kill as many Israelis as it can.
Indeed it is. The other day the Iron Dome intercepted a rocket aimed at the nuclear power plant in Israel. They actually fired three of them, but the other two missed their mark and didn't need to be intercepted.
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conchita
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,141
Jul 1, 2014 11:25:58 GMT
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Post by conchita on Jul 19, 2014 15:32:06 GMT
just replying to a couple of comments made regarding my post, still having trouble trying to quote.. The indiscriminate killing has to stop - I am talking about both sides here not just Israel - not a platitude at all, only by lobbying UK & US governments to stop supplying arms and marching against this senseless war is the only way we as people can make ourselves heard. ~Don't we all wish we had a magic solution. Looking back to Dec 2008 - Operation Cast Lead, Israel’s repeated firing of white phosphorous shells over densely populated areas of Gaza during its military campaign was indiscriminate and is evidence of war crimes.” White phosphorous burns at up to 1500 degrees Fahrenheit. Imagine what happens when it comes into contact with the skin of a child. Human Rights Watch called for Israel’s “senior commanders” to be held accountable. But so far, there has been no such accountability. Let us examine that argument. Did Hamas start “It”? When did “It” start? How we understand history is shaped by when we start the clock. If we start the clock at a moment when rockets are fired from Gaza into Israel on a certain afternoon that, is one history. If we start the clock earlier that morning, when a 13-year-old Palestinian boy was shot dead by Israeli soldiers as he played soccer on a Gaza field, history starts to look a little different. If we go back further we see that since “Operation Cast Lead”, according to the Israeli human rights organization B’tselem, 271 Palestinians were killed by Israeli, bombs, rockets, drones and warplanes, and during the same period not a single Israeli was killed. A good case can be made that “It” started in 1967 with the occupation of Gaza and the West Bank. History tells us that the invasion and occupation of a land and the subjugation of its people almost always creates a resistance. Ask the French or the Dutch or the Poles or the Czechs, the list goes on. This crisis in Gaza is a crisis rooted in occupation. Even as bombs rained down on 1.6 million people in Gaza, the President of The United States of America reasserted his position that “Israel has the right to defend itself.” We all know the reach and power of Israel’s military capability and the deadly effects of its actions. So what did President Obama mean? Did he mean that Israel has the right to indefinitely occupy the whole of the region, that Israel has the right to forcibly evict the populations of the occupied territories, house-by-house, village-by-village? Did he mean that in this special case Israel has the right to carry out campaigns of ethnic cleansing and apartheid, and that the U.S. will protect Israel’s right to do so? Did he mean that Israel has the right to build roads, in occupied territory, protected by razor wire and concrete walls and CCTV and machine guns to protect the residents of Jewish-only settlements? Did he mean that in discriminate and deadly bombing attacks, including the use of white phosphorous, on the civilian population of Gaza, by an overwhelmingly superior military force, is justified on the grounds of defence? And yes, I can understand exactly how it feels to live under constant bombardment and I am not just sitting in my ivory tower spouting off - having been in Lebanon in July 2006 I know exactly how it feels to be under constant siege and bombardment from Israeli forces. I have nothing else to say on the subject except this thread should not become another war, we should ALL work together to bring peace to the Middle East, however way we can. I can understand why you believe the way you do as you share your version of events. We are not going to see eye to eye on those things. But in your version of events you say Hamas responded with rockets when a Palestinian youth was murdered by Israeli soldiers. Let's say this is so, it is, in MY opinion, not a justifiable response. Launching rockets at Israel is not the answer. So I put the responsibility of this current war, with all the deaths and destruction at the feet of Hamas/Palestine. There were other ways and means of handling the death of that young boy. In handling it with violence it has only begotten more violence and more deaths. Hamas could end it today if they wanted to. But their mindset is, "If I can't have it no one else should either!". There is a story in 1 Kings 3 about two women fighting over the same child. They each claimed the child was theirs, that the other woman stole the baby. The king ruled to have the child split in half. One woman replied, No! She can have the child only let him live. The other woman cried, Let it be done! If I can't have him she shouldn't either! The king gave the child to the mother who wanted the child to live even though it meant losing him. She was the child's true mother. Israel belongs to the Jews. That is not going to change no matter how many rockets and terrorist attacks are made against them. The Palestinian people have seemed to find contentment in terrorizing Israel. "If I can't have it no one else should either!"
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Post by luv2scrapaboutmykids on Jul 19, 2014 16:02:13 GMT
I have no opinion this conflict seems to have been going on forever. I live in the prairies of Canada and it doesn't really affect or come into my mind often. Sad but true. Sorry
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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chico
Junior Member
Posts: 77
Jun 28, 2014 4:03:03 GMT
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Post by chico on Jul 19, 2014 20:07:59 GMT
The US is not the only country that supports Israel, Canada does as well. Our Prime Minister, Steven Harper, made that very clear in his speech a couple days ago. I'd link it if I knew how Thanks for pointing that out, Chico, I just looked it up. Oh, and to link, just follow the directions here. I don't want to step on your toes, so I won't post it, but I hope you quote parts of his speech in your message. It is well worth reading. BeckyTech, you wouldn't be stepping on my toes even a little bit, if you link and quote PM Harpers speech in support of Israel.
Between trying to link at all on my iPad, and internet that is slower than a crawl because I'm at home, I can't seem to get much to work right now. So please feel free
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Post by elaine on Jul 19, 2014 20:11:56 GMT
Thanks for pointing that out, Chico, I just looked it up. Oh, and to link, just follow the directions here. I don't want to step on your toes, so I won't post it, but I hope you quote parts of his speech in your message. It is well worth reading. BeckyTech, you wouldn't be stepping on my toes even a little bit, if you link and quote PM Harpers speech in support of Israel.
Between trying to link at all on my iPad, and internet that is slower than a crawl because I'm at home, I can't seem to get much to work right now. So please feel free Here's the link for you: lStephen Harper's Statement re: current situation in Israel
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chico
Junior Member
Posts: 77
Jun 28, 2014 4:03:03 GMT
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Post by chico on Jul 19, 2014 21:04:22 GMT
Thanks Elaine. I'm ever pleased that my country's leader has made Canada's stance ultra clear.
There are times when a strong statement is just the right thing to do.
From some of the other news articles I've read, it appears that other parties, NDP, Liberals etc. in Canada have not officially opposed Harper's no-nonsense speech.
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Post by BeckyTech on Jul 19, 2014 21:43:23 GMT
BeckyTech, you wouldn't be stepping on my toes even a little bit, if you link and quote PM Harpers speech in support of Israel.
Between trying to link at all on my iPad, and internet that is slower than a crawl because I'm at home, I can't seem to get much to work right now. So please feel free Here's the link for you: lStephen Harper's Statement re: current situation in Israel I thought she was referring to more than just his statement, but to his speech to the Knesset (the first part is an extract from an article, I finished it off with the end of his full speech you can find here): chico, I'd be pleased as well. No equivocation there!
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Post by elaine on Jul 19, 2014 22:34:08 GMT
I thought she was referring to more than just his statement, but to his speech to the Knesset (the first part is an extract from an article, I finished it off with the end of his full speech you can find here): chico, I'd be pleased as well. No equivocation there! Yeah, that was a great speech too. Thank you for sharing it! Chico mentioned it was in the past few days, so I was going with this one that he made earlier this week - a little briefer, but very clear nonetheless. It it is heartening that the US is NOT the only western country that stands by Israel.
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Post by peasapie on Jul 19, 2014 22:44:18 GMT
20 years ago when I was in college, the professor in a World History class I was taking required us to compile news articles about the conflict throughout the semester. At the end of the class, we had to summarize our thoughts about it. My summary essentially said that every time the two sides get close to going to a table to have a discussion, someone throws a "rock" at the other side, someone retaliates, and troubles begin anew. There are radical factions on both sides that want no part of peace talks, as well as more moderate groups who do.
Twenty years later, nothing has changed. Nor do I now expect that it ever will.
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Post by lucyg on Jul 20, 2014 4:09:17 GMT
20 years ago when I was in college, the professor in a World History class I was taking required us to compile news articles about the conflict throughout the semester. At the end of the class, we had to summarize our thoughts about it. My summary essentially said that every time the two sides get close to going to a table to have a discussion, someone throws a "rock" at the other side, someone retaliates, and troubles begin anew. There are radical factions on both sides that want no part of peace talks, as well as more moderate groups who do. Twenty years later, nothing has changed. Nor do I now expect that it ever will. The difference is that the radical faction is not in charge in Israel. It IS in charge of the Palestinian Authority.
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Post by lucyg on Jul 20, 2014 4:12:13 GMT
Are you freaking kidding me? That is a despicable--and bigoted--thing to say.
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Post by lucyg on Jul 20, 2014 4:13:06 GMT
Thank you and bless you, Stephen Harper and Canada.
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Jul 20, 2014 15:39:52 GMT
You're obviously referring to the Six Day War brought about, guess what, guerrilla attacks by surrounding Arab states. The "it" as you refer to it provided a natural barrier between Israel and her enemies.
Give back the Gaza? Israel already "gave back" land after a round of hostilities. Did it stop the hostilities? No. Not at all. Israel should give back no land, release no terrorist prisoners or make any type of concession other than to cease hostilities. Why? Because no matter what Israel has done in the past, including displacing it's own citizens, has satisfied the Palestinians nor has it resulted in peace from the Hamas or other Palestinian and Arab countries and territories.
Lymn, I suggest you "give back" your home to the Native Americans that our government took from them.
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Deleted
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Oct 7, 2024 0:20:33 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2014 19:30:38 GMT
I think it boils down to this. To have peace, both parties must desire it. One side does not. Nor will they ever. They've proven that time and time again.
The other side must be allowed to protect itself and respond to attacks. If not, they will no longer exist.
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Deleted
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Oct 7, 2024 0:20:33 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2014 21:28:16 GMT
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Post by elaine on Jul 20, 2014 21:31:32 GMT
I heard this.
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Post by lucyg on Jul 20, 2014 21:48:28 GMT
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lbrock44
Junior Member
Posts: 73
Jun 29, 2014 2:56:24 GMT
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Post by lbrock44 on Jul 20, 2014 22:34:36 GMT
I think it boils down to this. To have peace, both parties must desire it. One side does not. Nor will they ever. They've proven that time and time again. The other side must be allowed to protect itself and respond to attacks. If not, they will no longer exist. This. What exactly do people expect Israel to do? Let their country be obliterated? Let the thousands of rockets fired go unchecked? They have to be able to defend themselves.
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Post by greenlegume on Jul 20, 2014 23:23:25 GMT
From the linked article.
I have yet to see this kind of behavior from Israelis when there are Palestinian casualties.
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Post by BeckyTech on Jul 21, 2014 1:29:27 GMT
From the linked article. I have yet to see this kind of behavior from Israelis when there are Palestinian casualties. Not only that, but Israel suffered casualties in ground fighting today as a direct result of the warnings they give to residents. Hamas was waiting, of course, the warnings were issued two days ago. And of course Hamas urged residents not to leave, resulting in many unnecessary civilian deaths. Not to mention the people who refused to leave because the warnings came from the hated Israelis. You know, the ones trying to save their lives? Israel has set up hospitals on the border where they are willing to treat injured Palestinian fighters even. There haven't been any takers, they are afraid of being interrogated and they would be marked on their own side, suspected of talking, even if they didn't. But Palestinians (civilians?) are treated at Barzilai Hospital in Ashkelon, which is frequently hit by rocket attacks from Gaza. Who in hell fires on a hospital? Plus, Hamas uses innocent animals as "suicide" bombers. I guess they've used dogs in the past, and today the Israelis were forced to fire on a donkey that blew up. There is nothing that will make you scum in my book faster than harming innocent children or animals.
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Deleted
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Oct 7, 2024 0:20:33 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2014 1:32:20 GMT
Becky...I wanted to let you know that I read and appreciated your post...but didn't want to "like" it because it seems so repulsive to "like" that information, YKWIM? (but thank you for sharing it)
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Post by greenlegume on Jul 21, 2014 1:34:10 GMT
Becky...I wanted to let you know that I read and appreciated your post...but didn't want to "like" it because it seems so repulsive to "like" that information, YKWIM? (but thank you for sharing it) ITA
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Post by I-95 on Jul 21, 2014 7:32:06 GMT
Are you freaking kidding me? That is a despicable--and bigoted--thing to say. Thanks Lucy. I read that when she wrote it and was, uncharacteristically for me, speechless! How can someone write those words and then say "we should ALL work together to bring peace to the Middle East, however way we can." That's as idiotic as folks in America saying 'I'm not prejudice, but I don't think black children should go to the same school my kids go to' That's when my head starts screaming 'Are you stoned, or just stupid?'
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 7, 2024 0:20:33 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2014 14:04:20 GMT
John Kerry open mic gaffe. Wouldn't the Palestinians and Hamas be dancing in the streets if they could get a rift between the US and Israel? John Kerry may say one thing...and repeat the talking points...but it sure seems his attitude is a little hostile towards Israel. news.yahoo.com/kerry-makes-mic-gaffe-gaza-085610315.html
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whirledpeas
Junior Member
Oceanside, California
Posts: 52
Jun 25, 2014 20:51:30 GMT
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Post by whirledpeas on Jul 21, 2014 14:25:53 GMT
If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. I didn't want this quote to get lost. Perfectly stated.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 7, 2024 0:20:33 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2014 14:31:37 GMT
If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. I didn't want this quote to get lost. Perfectly stated. This quote should be on every page of this thread...just as a reminder.
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