mapchic
Junior Member
Posts: 62
Jun 26, 2014 0:16:00 GMT
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Post by mapchic on Jul 24, 2014 3:25:50 GMT
just speechless at some of the comments on here - I just wonder what planet some people are living on. This is not defending Israel, this is genocide, disproportionate and indiscriminate slaughter of civilians mostly women and children. I don't know what your news stations are telling you, but ours are telling us that the UN is calling for an immediate investigations into Israeli war crimes on Gaza. You only believe your own biased media and try to discredit anything else. I don't suppose for one minute that any of you will watch the following video link as you don't want to see what is actually happening on the streets of Gaza, discredit it if you will, but Jon Snow is one the most highly respected journalists in the world and is reporting for Channel 4 in the UK. www.youtube.com/watch?v=4z4TvDbffI0&list=UUTrQ7HXWRRxr7OsOtodr2_w&app=desktop if after watching that, you still feel that Israel should carry on the killing, then shame on you, shame. on. you. oh and apologies for not sourcing my previous post, I never stated they were my words, I just didn't think to quote ! I'm just waiting now for the "I stopped watching after 2 mins brigade" go on - I dare you to watch to the end - open your eyes people and stop believing some of the propaganda on here ! A ceasefire will never be agreed upon, until Israel stops wanting everything their way. This time I really am bowing out of this thread - it's making my blood boil. Sorry to disappoint your expectations I would stop after 2 minutes... I watched the whole thing. It's just heavy handed emotionally manipulative propaganda in support of Hamas. The question asked int eh title 'Is this a war against children' was manipulative from the start. There was no balance from the other side of the issue at all. I understand that Jon Snow is a respected journalist in the UK, but this kind of heavy handed partisan reporting is not respected in the US. After watching that I still feel that Hamas is to blame for the deaths in Gaza. The IDF has gone above and beyond to try and minimize civilian casualties while Hamas has persisted in using human shields. At the 4:30 mark the doctor comes on and gives us some statistics... 166 children have died and 695 adults. That means that 19% of the deaths have been children - in a population that is 34% under the age of 15 that means that children are in fact *under represented* in the death toll. Again in the injured toll children are under represented as a percentage of population with 22.5% of injuries (based on the numbers this doctor provided). We don't know what this doctor is considering a 'child' - under 15? Under 21? So this is all back of the envelope thinking. Regardless the relative under representation proves if nothing else that this is most assuredly *not* a 'War against children'. It is most assuredly not disporportionate or mostly women and children. At this point if there are civilians and children in the areas which are being struck by the IDF they have no one to blame but themselves. The IDF leafleted the area extensively prior to the operation pleading with civilians to leave. They also texted and called in order to make their intentions known. Here is the text of one of the leaflets In response Hamas called for the people of Gaza to be human shields (I believe I posted the video earlier in the thread) Has Hamas ever extended the same type of warnings to the people of Israel who are being *indiscriminately* bombed? Was the Fogel family given any warning prior to being murdered in their beds? Where is the call for investigation of Palestinian war crimes? You know like the unit of Hamas terrorists who were found to have infiltrated Israel wearing IDF uniforms (Massive violation of Geneva Conventions). Or placing arms in UN schools, shooting from hospitals, mosques and civilian buildings. This is not at all a 'genocide' to use that word so cavalierly shows you neither understand what genocide is nor what is happening today in Gaza.
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Deleted
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Oct 6, 2024 18:20:04 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2014 3:37:12 GMT
The thing about that video trash that she posted, focuses on Gaza. NOT ONE SINGLE WORD about the thousands of bombs and rockets Hamas has lobbed over at Israel. NOT ONE WORD. I don't understand how any person with a brain and has even watched any news thinks that this is as one sided as that video portrays. I'm not Jewish, but I take great offense of you using genocide in the context you did.
The women and children of Gaza ARE the victims. They're the victims of Hamas whose hatred of all things Israel is much more important to them than their families and their children. That's not the fault of Israel AT ALL. The fault lies at the feet of Hamas.
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Deleted
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Oct 6, 2024 18:20:04 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2014 3:39:51 GMT
And here I was this afternoon, doing my best to stay out of this thread. I've posted so much and was talking in circles, taking much effort to explain things and still have my words misunderstood.
But then I read that shit from Lynm and I could not refrain. It's sickening.
No self control.
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Post by *KatyCupcake* on Jul 24, 2014 3:44:07 GMT
FOR REAL. Simple as that.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 18:20:04 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2014 3:46:23 GMT
FOR REAL. Simple as that. True dat. I hope the IDF doesn't mind that I right clicked this and posted it on FB.
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Post by *KatyCupcake* on Jul 24, 2014 3:47:31 GMT
The women and children of Gaza ARE the victims. They're the victims of Hamas whose hatred of all things Israel is much more important to them than their families and their children. That's not the fault of Israel AT ALL. The fault lies at the feet of Hamas. Yes. Hamas exists with the purpose of wiping out Jews and Israel. Hamas' charter says it plain as day- "We love death more than the Jews love life." I can't for one minute fathom believing the European propaganda that has been passed along as truth. It goes directly against Hamas' own declaration.
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Post by I-95 on Jul 24, 2014 4:07:18 GMT
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Deleted
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Oct 6, 2024 18:20:04 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2014 4:18:37 GMT
I-95...I think you need to call the IDF and let them know to STOP dropping leaflets warning people to get out...STOP making the phone calls. Like you said, Israel really sucks at "genocide".
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Post by BeckyTech on Jul 24, 2014 6:08:33 GMT
Here are my questions for Jon Snow AND you: - Where is your outrage over the millions of dollars spent on tunnels that exist for one purpose only: to attack Israel, instead of spending all that money and time building infrastructure, schools, hospitals, and houses?
- Where is your outrage that Hamas leaders are protected by bomb shelters, but won't build any protection at all for those children and other civilians?
- Where is your outrage that Hamas fires rockets from schools, hospitals, and geriatric facilities, thereby making them military targets?
- Where is your outrage that Hamas tells people to stay put when they receive advanced notice that a building is a target, causing so many unnecessary civilian deaths?
- Where is your outrage at Hamas for using human shields?
- Where is your outrage that Israel honored the cease-fire, but Hamas continued firing rockets to try to kill Israelis?
- Where is your outrage that Hamas has said they will never recognize Israel? How can Israel negotiate with anyone who doesn't even recognize their right to exist? You want negotiations so bad? Then let's start with Hamas.
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Post by lucyg on Jul 24, 2014 6:32:00 GMT
That is NOT what your linked article says. It is clear you've made up your mind who's at fault here, and you're not going to let a little thing like the facts get in the way.
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Post by I-95 on Jul 24, 2014 7:38:52 GMT
Yep, Israel's demands are just ridiculous aren't they? I mean they're actually saying, that if Hamas will stop firing rockets at Israeli citizens, they will cease all hostile actions. The nerve of Israel. So demanding!!
Now let's see what Hamas wants...they want the blockade lifted so they can transport in more weapons to use against Israel (the blockade does not affect food, medicine, building supplies, clothing etc) They want 500+ prisoners released. They want the opening of the Rafah border crossing with Egypt (Ummm, Egypt doesn't want it open) and then they'll *think* about not firing any more rockets. So, let's sum that up....the group that started this mess is willing to stop their aggressive actions if Israel will meet their demands and allow them to rearm themselves, while all Israel wants them to do is stop shooting at us. Yep, I can see how that translates into Israel being the bad guy and wanting everything to be their way.
What planet are you living on???
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Post by mollycoddle on Jul 24, 2014 10:46:47 GMT
Hopefully, I can link this right,lol. link
At any rate, here is one of the main points:
"THE DISTINGUISHING feature of the latest war between Israel and Hamas is “offensive tunnels,” as the Israeli army calls them. As of early Wednesday, 28 had been uncovered in Gaza, and nearly half extend into Israel, according to Israeli officials. The tunnels are the reason that the government of Benjamin Netanyahu decided last weekend to launch a ground invasion of Gaza, and they explain why that operation has strong support from Israelis in spite of the relatively heavy casualties it has inflicted. Most significantly, the tunnels show why it has been difficult to reach a cease-fire and why any accord must forge a new political and security order in Gaza.
Hamas’s offensive tunnels should not be confused with the burrows it has dug under Gaza’s border with Egypt to smuggle money, consumer goods and military equipment. The newly discovered structures have only one conceivable purpose: to launch attacks inside Israel. Three times in recent days, Hamas fighters emerged from the tunnels in the vicinity of Israeli civilian communities, which they clearly aimed to attack. The concrete-lined structures are stocked with materials, such as handcuffs and tranquilizers, that could be used on hostages. Other tunnels in northern Gaza are designed for the storage and firing of missiles at Israeli cities."
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Post by mollycoddle on Jul 24, 2014 10:50:03 GMT
And just to be clear, I think that the deaths of innocent civilians are tragic. But I blame Hamas for their deaths. Where are the bomb shelters? If you can put all of that time, energy and money into a series of tunnels, then you can build bomb shelters.
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Post by I-95 on Jul 24, 2014 12:14:21 GMT
Hamas has made it abundantly clear that one of their primary goals is to kidnap Israeli citizens and hold them for ransom (cash, prisoner exchanges etc) It is not a surprise that those tunnels they have been popping out of are near Kibbutzim where there are no soldiers, just regular families.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jul 24, 2014 13:50:33 GMT
just speechless at some of the comments on here - I just wonder what planet some people are living on. This is not defending Israel, this is genocide, disproportionate and indiscriminate slaughter of civilians mostly women and children. I don't know what your news stations are telling you, but ours are telling us that the UN is calling for an immediate investigations into Israeli war crimes on Gaza. You only believe your own biased media and try to discredit anything else. I don't suppose for one minute that any of you will watch the following video link as you don't want to see what is actually happening on the streets of Gaza, discredit it if you will, but Jon Snow is one the most highly respected journalists in the world and is reporting for Channel 4 in the UK. www.youtube.com/watch?v=4z4TvDbffI0&list=UUTrQ7HXWRRxr7OsOtodr2_w&app=desktop if after watching that, you still feel that Israel should carry on the killing, then shame on you, shame. on. you. oh and apologies for not sourcing my previous post, I never stated they were my words, I just didn't think to quote ! I'm just waiting now for the "I stopped watching after 2 mins brigade" go on - I dare you to watch to the end - open your eyes people and stop believing some of the propaganda on here ! A ceasefire will never be agreed upon, until Israel stops wanting everything their way. This time I really am bowing out of this thread - it's making my blood boil. What part of NEVER AGAIN is too difficult for you to grasp? Actually look at what you have said here. If you eliminate all references to names like Israel, Palestinian, Hamas, anything that gives a side a name, and then go through all the information again, maybe then (and only then) will you begin to see what is real and what is nothing but twisted, lying propaganda.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jul 24, 2014 13:55:47 GMT
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 18:20:04 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2014 14:37:51 GMT
Here are my questions for Jon Snow AND you: - Where is your outrage over the millions of dollars spent on tunnels that exist for one purpose only: to attack Israel, instead of spending all that money and time building infrastructure, schools, hospitals, and houses?
- Where is your outrage that Hamas leaders are protected by bomb shelters, but won't build any protection at all for those children and other civilians?
- Where is your outrage that Hamas fires rockets from schools, hospitals, and geriatric facilities, thereby making them military targets?
- Where is your outrage that Hamas tells people to stay put when they receive advanced notice that a building is a target, causing so many unnecessary civilian deaths?
- Where is your outrage at Hamas for using human shields?
- Where is your outrage that Israel honored the cease-fire, but Hamas continued firing rockets to try to kill Israelis?
- Where is your outrage that Hamas has said they will never recognize Israel? How can Israel negotiate with anyone who doesn't even recognize their right to exist? You want negotiations so bad? Then let's start with Hamas.
I would love to see Lynm or anyone in the worldwide media answer these.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jul 24, 2014 14:43:06 GMT
From that linked article from lynm
Would those be schools where Hamas is also storing rockets and firing from, by any chance?
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 18:20:04 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2014 14:51:07 GMT
From that linked article from lynm Would those be schools where Hamas is also storing rockets and firing from, by any chance? Well the hospital that the IDF took out yesterday (I think y'day) in Gaza was used by Hamas and the IDF has video of Hamas firing from the 2nd floor of the hospital.
I know, I know...shocking news that Hamas isn't playing by the rules and in doing so, purposely jeopardizing the lives of innocent people.
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Post by I-95 on Jul 24, 2014 14:56:03 GMT
Hamas MP speaksThis is just a 50 second video, but this is from a Member of Hamas Parliament sharing his view on a peace agreement with Israel. Then ask yourself HTH is Israel supposed to negotiate with someone like this.
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Post by BeckyTech on Jul 24, 2014 15:07:59 GMT
Here are my questions for Jon Snow AND you: - Where is your outrage over the millions of dollars spent on tunnels that exist for one purpose only: to attack Israel, instead of spending all that money and time building infrastructure, schools, hospitals, and houses?
- Where is your outrage that Hamas leaders are protected by bomb shelters, but won't build any protection at all for those children and other civilians?
- Where is your outrage that Hamas fires rockets from schools, hospitals, and geriatric facilities, thereby making them military targets?
- Where is your outrage that Hamas tells people to stay put when they receive advanced notice that a building is a target, causing so many unnecessary civilian deaths?
- Where is your outrage at Hamas for using human shields?
- Where is your outrage that Israel honored the cease-fire, but Hamas continued firing rockets to try to kill Israelis?
- Where is your outrage that Hamas has said they will never recognize Israel? How can Israel negotiate with anyone who doesn't even recognize their right to exist? You want negotiations so bad? Then let's start with Hamas.
I would love to see Lynm or anyone in the worldwide media answer these. Yes, indeed. I watched that video she linked (yes, the entire clip) and was thinking one thing. The venerated Jon Snow is nothing more than a Palestinian PR puppet. They certainly have him trained well. Show all the children for maximum affect; blame it all on Israel.
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mapchic
Junior Member
Posts: 62
Jun 26, 2014 0:16:00 GMT
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Post by mapchic on Jul 24, 2014 15:25:51 GMT
Hamas MP speaksThis is just a 50 second video, but this is from a Member of Hamas Parliament sharing his view on a peace agreement with Israel. Then ask yourself HTH is Israel supposed to negotiate with someone like this. Based on this video the Palestinians have taken to heart the old saying "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading."
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Post by BeckyTech on Jul 24, 2014 15:28:00 GMT
Unfortunately Palestinian children's programming celebrating hate and death to Jews is well-documented by many organizations, including the UN. I've seen more than one clip where the children claim to want to be suicide bombers when they grow up. So sad. But yes, it's true.
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Post by *KatyCupcake* on Jul 24, 2014 15:29:25 GMT
And this is why there will NEVER be peace. When you poison your children with hatred and violence and turn and use them as shields to protect your weapons, you are not interested in peace. Only death.
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Post by anxiousmom on Jul 24, 2014 15:31:54 GMT
From that linked article from lynm Would those be schools where Hamas is also storing rockets and firing from, by any chance? I don't mean to be ugly, but if food and water are such a huge concern, perhaps they should not have broken the cease fire the other day that was designed specifically to distribute humanitarian aid (e.g. water, food, medical supplies...)
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Post by *KatyCupcake* on Jul 24, 2014 15:47:07 GMT
This is how they work. They PURPOSEFULLY sabotage humanitarian efforts that will help their civilians. They INTENTIONALLY turn schools and hospitals into warehouses to store their weapons. They launch rockets indiscriminately into Israel with the intention of killing as many civilians as possible. And then when Israel acts in defense of it's people, Hamas holds up the dead children they strategically placed next to those weapons (the same child they've been teaching to grow up and shoot Jews and Zionists) and tell the world that Israel is awful for killing that child and cry out for humanitarian efforts... that they will once again sabotage and purposefully keep from benefitting their civilians. It's an evil cycle and the victims are their very own people. What disgusts me most is that "journalists" like Snow and others can look at this situation and dare to blame Israel.
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conchita
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,141
Jul 1, 2014 11:25:58 GMT
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Post by conchita on Jul 24, 2014 17:30:22 GMT
lynm You are supporting *terrorists* who terrorize Israel and their own people. Yet *we* are supposed to be ashamed of ourselves? Your thinking has been perverted by the same indoctrination Hamas has been successful at spreading. It's skewed, full of lies and there is no logic to what you have written. I suppose it's easier for you to blame Israel because they're prosperous and more well equipped to defend themselves. But what if Hamas was equally equipped? Do you think there would be an uproar over their aggression then? Or would it be okay because Israel should be destroyed? Because I think in your mind Israel's destruction is preferred over the deaths of Hamas terror fighters. Or at least that's what I hear when I read your responses in this thread. And genocide? Really? Lady you have some big clanking brass balls to attribute that to the Israelis. That was a really shameful thing to say.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 18:20:04 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2014 18:05:22 GMT
lynm You are supporting *terrorists* who terrorize Israel and their own people. Yet *we* are supposed to be ashamed of ourselves? Your thinking has been perverted by the same indoctrination Hamas has been successful at spreading. It's skewed, full of lies and there is no logic to what you have written. I suppose it's easier for you to blame Israel because they're prosperous and more well equipped to defend themselves. But what if Hamas was equally equipped? Do you think there would be an uproar over their aggression then? Or would it be okay because Israel should be destroyed? Because I think in your mind Israel's destruction is preferred over the deaths of Hamas terror fighters. Or at least that's what I hear when I read your responses in this thread. And genocide? Really? Lady you have some big clanking brass balls to attribute that to the Israelis. That was a really shameful thing to say.
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Post by BeckyTech on Jul 24, 2014 19:21:19 GMT
Here is another thing you will never see your vaunted Jon Snow report on: how the Hamas leaders have skimmed so much aid money and robbed their own people so much that they are living as the millionaires and billionaires that they are in luxury in other areas of the ME. Yup, they sure are concerned about medical aid and food to those poor children they like to show on television so much. Here are a couple of reports from Egyptian TV showing just how those leaders are living. Now keep in mind, the Egyptians are no friends of Israel, they are just mad at the hypocritical Hamas leadership:
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oh yvonne
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,062
Jun 26, 2014 0:45:23 GMT
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Post by oh yvonne on Jul 24, 2014 19:47:19 GMT
This thread is so amazing. Honestly I have learned *so much* and just come by to read updates. Mapchic, you are just brilliant girl. I love to read your posts. Everyone's are great but dang, girl Mappie is just frickin awesome with all her facts.
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