Deleted
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Oct 6, 2024 12:32:26 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2014 16:45:13 GMT
I-95 The Jon Snow article that you are referring to was a video documentary and aired by Independent Television Chanel 4 depicting the plight of the children in Gaza. It was purely documenting what he saw happening to the children in Gaza. You ask me if I think it's biased or unbiased...to what exactly? That these children are not been killed or injured? That he's made it all up? I'm certain he would have made exactly the same kind of documentary if the children of Israel were in the same position and rightly so but they're not are they?
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Post by I-95 on Jul 28, 2014 17:03:32 GMT
The humanitarian crisis in Gaza worsens and meanwhile in Tel Aviv..... www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7qFACSfd_knice people eh ? Maybe somebody on here would like to translate it for everyone else, or is this "fake" propaganda as well ? You see, the thing I have a problem with on here is this, everything that is posted on line or reported by the media (even by well respected news reporters, doctors etc) that is pro-Palestinian or about the humanitarian situation is slated as being either faked, propaganda, or is allegedly being censored (ie. reporters too scared to speak out) but everything posted on here Pro-Israeli is the God given truth ? Anyone with a different point of view is just vilified even to the veiled threats of anti-semitism. I have many Jewish friends who are frankly appalled at what is happening in Gaza, some even took part in the march on the Israeli embassy with me in London this weekend bearing placards "not in my name" . You also don't have to support Hamas to be pro-Palestinian. FFS, you really think you're the only ones who are 'appalled' by what's happening in Gaza? I'm appalled by it. What I am not, is apologetic about Israel defending itself. It has been stated, ad nauseam, on this thread, that NOBODY is happy about the civilian casualties in Gaza. The truth is a lot of stuff that comes out of Gaza IS faked....that's the truth, whether you like it or not. If you don't get that Hamas uses civilian shields, and residential apartment buildings in Gaza as their launching pad for rockets, then I don't know what to tell you. Those are facts that are well documented by dozens of different news agencies, from dozens of different countries, the UN even says it's so. It's not Israeli propaganda. But after explaining, calmly, time after time after time.....you still come back with this bullshit 'Anyone with a different point of view is just vilified even to the veiled threats of anti-semitism' What do you want from us (Israelis)? Tell me that. Every time I ask that question, it gets ignored. WTF DO YOU WANT US TO DO? I could translate that song for you, but as you suspect, it's not very nice. I have said, in this very thread, that there are extremist factions in Israel who hate the Palestinians. That's not a secret, but it's also not the majority of Israelis. Israelis don't like the extremists any more than you do. There was a pro-Palestinian rally right here in Tel Aviv a couple of nights ago....by Israeli Jews. Let me tell you something, you will NEVER see the Palestinians allowing their people to hold a pro-Israeli rally. I'd also like to know what you consider Pro-Palestinian. That could mean a whole lot of things from you agree with their idea that the Jews should be pushed into the sea, or it could mean that you think there should be a 2 State solution....so what does pro-Palestinian mean to you?
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Post by I-95 on Jul 28, 2014 17:20:11 GMT
Dottyscrapper said:
Thank you. I guess I was asking whether you thought it was unbiased.
No, the children of Israel are not being blown up, but they are not being used as human shields either. We don't do that to our people. I don't recall anywhere in that documentary, where Mr. Snow mentioned that the Palestinian people are being used as human shields, or that their governing body (Hamas) is deliberately using residential buildings in crowded civilian areas, as their launch pads for attacks, and that's why so many children and families are being hurt/killed. He didn't mention that many of the medical supplies they are running out of are supplied, free of charge, by Israel. He did not mention that children who are badly injured are transported to Israeli hospitals, and treated free of charge, when there is a ceasefire in place. He did not mention that supplies of all kinds (food, medicine, clothing) are all transported in during a ceasefire and that it is almost always Israel who asks for a ceasefire so they can get civilians who are hurt out of there, but Hamas frequently refuses the ceasefire options. If he had mentioned those things, I would consider that an unbiased report, but when he fails to mention them, I find it to be biased.
ETA: I did not refer to it as an 'article' I used the words 'presentation' and 'report'. I know it was not an article, or a 3 minute blip on the nightly news.
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Post by lucyg on Jul 28, 2014 17:27:44 GMT
You see, the thing I have a problem with on here is this, everything that is posted on line or reported by the media (even by well respected news reporters, doctors etc) that is pro-Palestinian or about the humanitarian situation is slated as being either faked, propaganda, or is allegedly being censored (ie. reporters too scared to speak out) but everything posted on here Pro-Israeli is the God given truth ? Anyone with a different point of view is just vilified even to the veiled threats of anti-semitism. I have many Jewish friends who are frankly appalled at what is happening in Gaza, some even took part in the march on the Israeli embassy with me in London this weekend bearing placards "not in my name" . You also don't have to support Hamas to be pro-Palestinian. I didn't make a "veiled threat" of anti-Semitism. I said it outright. Anyone who would accuse the Israelis of committing genocide against the Palestinians (and I include other Jews in this group) is either badly under-informed, choosing to interpret current events with little grasp of reality, or bears a streak (or a lot more) of anti-Semitism. Genocide is a term with a very specific meaning, and with grave historical reality for European Jews and their American and Israeli cousins. To throw that word around casually is utterly despicable.
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lynm
Shy Member
Posts: 29
Location: London Town
Jun 26, 2014 11:09:28 GMT
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Post by lynm on Jul 28, 2014 17:41:51 GMT
Oh I didn't throw that word around casually I can assure you.
genocide noun
noun: genocide; plural noun: genocides the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular nation or ethnic group.
To throw the anti-Semitism word around casually is equally despicable !
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BarbaraUK
Drama Llama
Surrounded by my yarn stash on the NE coast of England...............!! Refupea 1702
Posts: 5,961
Location: England UK
Jun 27, 2014 12:47:11 GMT
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Post by BarbaraUK on Jul 28, 2014 17:42:27 GMT
Actually, I'm confused as to what you are all saying about the British media and biased/unbiased reporting. Are you saying that you think most, if not all, of the reports on/in your most respected visual and print media sources are a mix of biased and unbiased reports, or are you saying that each report presents an unbiased report on the situation in Gaza? For instance, did you think that the Snow presentation was an example of unbiased reporting? Or did you mean that the Snow report was biased and sometime later there was a report by a different journalist, presenting a different POV? I'd like to get it straight in my own head as to which of those two scenarios you believe to be true. I did not actually see the Jon Snow report but it would appear that on his blog there was some mix-up regarding a photograph. That caused a bit of a to-do and accusations and rumours started flying across Twitter and therefore the world! I'm not a fan of Channel 4 news so don't watch it much but have to say that it is unlikely that Jon Snow would have made a biased report. It seems that, as in so many cases, he relied on and trusted someone to do something for him (issue the photograph) and it wasn't done properly. Think that's it anyway. I'm sorry it is being confusing to you but our system of news delivery is different to the US in the main so I'm not surprised it's confusing you!! I will try to explain the way our visual media operates. We tend to put reporters in each country in order to have even handed reporting. I'll use tonight's Sky evening TV news report as an example. They had a reporter in both Gaza and Israel, both reporting what they were seeing there. The Gaza reporter was talking about the refugee camp being hit by a missile and an hospital out patients being hit with lots of injured and 7 children dead and talking about and showing the conditions there. That was followed by the reporter in Israel talking about the missiles incoming from the Gaza Strip and reporting that there were 4 Israeli dead. He also said that a statement from the Israeli Prime Minister in Tel Aviv was due shortly and that would be shown live. Later there was a news flash about reports saying that Hamas gunmen had made their way into Israel and there appeared to be casualties. The Israeli news conference is now being shown live and in full. The reporters report just the facts and do not speculate on who is to blame. Any discussion takes place in the studio with invited guests and or ambassadors from every side being asked for their opinions and can get quite heated! As in the US, it is the anchor man who puts the questions and makes sure each guest gets a decent time to answer free of interruptions. That's probably not helped at all but I have tried to describe how it goes. Sorry if it has just confused you more!! Got to see to dinner now! *Also reported on the same news was Ukraine, Syria and domestic news.
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Post by BeckyTech on Jul 28, 2014 17:42:56 GMT
BeckyTech, I've been using mostly live news broadcasts when trying to explain my take on the reporting on the humanitarian crisis. Maybe not a great idea where links are concerned but will see what I can do about finding some links for you. Yes, they have shown the missiles coming in from Israel but they have also shown the places Hamas have piled weapons and asked some pretty tough questions of Hamas as to why they just don't stop and talk. Trying to be even handed for the domestic audience they are aimed at because we understand the system but it seems to be coming over a little differently to US citizens perhaps. There again, it would be absolutely impossible for me to listen to every news broadcast on every channel or read every UK newspaper so I could have missed some reporting. There is no way that the UK would support Hamas. We were among the first to designate them terrorists and the UK knows first hand about terrorism! You know BeckyTech, the Brits and the US are so different sometimes in the way we look at certain things that it is difficult to explain our way of doing things to Americans at times. Barbara, perfectly understandable and reasonable that what you are seeing on TV is not necessarily reflected in what some of us are reading from your press. Certainly none of us can possibly follow all the coverage from everywhere. I very much appreciate your reasonable response.
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Post by *KatyCupcake* on Jul 28, 2014 17:47:20 GMT
Palestinian leadership is Hamas. I feel for the innocent civilians who are being put in harm's way by their leaders. Why was Hamas elected to be the leadership for Palestinians?
To be "Pro-Palestinian" to me equals being "Anti-Israel" because their overall agenda means the destruction of Israel- they've rejected every chance at peace and a 2 state resolution. And as others have stated, being "anti-Israel" is based on anti-Semitism.
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Post by BeckyTech on Jul 28, 2014 18:15:18 GMT
Becktech - I'm just speechless at the above. How on this earth can you refer to a report made by an international pool of medical Doctors working in Gaza on a humanitarian basis and printed in a reputable medical publications, a political statement? Would you also call this a political statement too Medecins Sans Frontieres ( Doctors without Borders)
I they're reporting this a week ago,lord knows what it's like there today. I'm not sure why you are speechless: because medical doctors and scientists have political viewpoints; that the Lancet would give them a platform; or that I am perfectly capable of discerning a political statement when I see one. Do you not notice a difference between the Lancet statement and the one from Doctors without Borders? Hmmm... the Doctors without Borders statement lacks the words aggressor in relation to only one side, genocide, massacre, and all sorts of other incendiary words and phrases. Neither of them mention a whole host of qualifiers, but ... Again, civilian casualties and death is a very distressing thing for most of us to both contemplate and see in the news reports and images. Well, except Hamas, of course, they welcome and use civilian injuries and death. Which is also distressing to most people.
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conchita
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,141
Jul 1, 2014 11:25:58 GMT
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Post by conchita on Jul 28, 2014 18:16:03 GMT
FFS, you really think you're the only ones who are 'appalled' by what's happening in Gaza? I'm appalled by it. What I am not, is apologetic about Israel defending itself.It has been stated, ad nauseam, on this thread, that NOBODY is happy about the civilian casualties in Gaza. The truth is a lot of stuff that comes out of Gaza IS faked....that's the truth, whether you like it or not. If you don't get that Hamas uses civilian shields, and residential apartment buildings in Gaza as their launching pad for rockets, then I don't know what to tell you. Those are facts that are well documented by dozens of different news agencies, from dozens of different countries, the UN even says it's so. It's not Israeli propaganda. But after explaining, calmly, time after time after time.....you still come back with this bullshit 'Anyone with a different point of view is just vilified even to the veiled threats of anti-semitism' What do you want from us (Israelis)? Tell me that. Every time I ask that question, it gets ignored. WTF DO YOU WANT US TO DO? I could translate that song for you, but as you suspect, it's not very nice. I have said, in this very thread, that there are extremist factions in Israel who hate the Palestinians. That's not a secret, but it's also not the majority of Israelis. Israelis don't like the extremists any more than you do. There was a pro-Palestinian rally right here in Tel Aviv a couple of nights ago....by Israeli Jews. Let me tell you something, you will NEVER see the Palestinians allowing their people to hold a pro-Israeli rally. I'd also like to know what you consider Pro-Palestinian. That could mean a whole lot of things from you agree with their idea that the Jews should be pushed into the sea, or it could mean that you think there should be a 2 State solution....so what does pro-Palestinian mean to you? This needs to be repeated. I don't understand what there is left to argue about. The facts are plain and simple. Palestinian people are suffering. Israelis are suffering. Hamas wants to continue terrorizing Israel at the cost of ANY civilian...their own and Israel's. Israel must defend their people. This war will stop when Hamas stops launching rockets. Or at least that's what *I* understand after 18 pages. **PLEASE NOTE: The quoted paragraphs were written by I-95 in response to Lynm.**
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Post by BeckyTech on Jul 28, 2014 18:35:36 GMT
I just wanted to comment on the latest video that lynm linked. It is hardly representative of even the anti-military operation group in Tel Aviv. According to this report it's a very extreme faction and even the other protesters felt they were harming the overall message. There are extremists in every crowd. Just as there are other people willing to point to the extremists, trying to paint them as representative of the entire group.
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Post by mollycoddle on Jul 28, 2014 18:41:36 GMT
Becktech - I'm just speechless at the above. How on this earth can you refer to a report made by an international pool of medical Doctors working in Gaza on a humanitarian basis and printed in a reputable medical publications, a political statement? Would you also call this a political statement too Medecins Sans Frontieres ( Doctors without Borders)
I they're reporting this a week ago,lord knows what it's like there today. I'm not sure why you are speechless: because medical doctors and scientists have political viewpoints; that the Lancet would give them a platform; or that I am perfectly capable of discerning a political statement when I see one. Do you not notice a difference between the Lancet statement and the one from Doctors without Borders? Hmmm... the Doctors without Borders statement lacks the words aggressor in relation to only one side, genocide, massacre, and all sorts of other incendiary words and phrases. Neither of them mention a whole host of qualifiers, but ... Again, civilian casualties and death is a very distressing thing for most of us to both contemplate and see in the news reports and images. Well, except Hamas, of course, they welcome and use civilian injuries and death. Which is also distressing to most people. I have to agree with Becky. I was appalled by the Lancet letter. If they hold Hamas to any account at all, it was certainly not apparent. I realize that the topic was Gaza and the injuries of Palestinian civilians, but the tone of the letter was (to me) like Israel was attacking for no reason whatsoever. On the other hand, I felt that the Doctors Without Borders letter was much more factual and talked about casualties without histrionics.
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Deleted
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Oct 6, 2024 12:32:26 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2014 18:53:31 GMT
Dottyscrapper said: Thank you. I guess I was asking whether you thought it was unbiased. No, the children of Israel are not being blown up, but they are not being used as human shields either. We don't do that to our people. I don't recall anywhere in that documentary, where Mr. Snow mentioned that the Palestinian people are being used as human shields, or that their governing body (Hamas) is deliberately using residential buildings in crowded civilian areas, as their launch pads for attacks, and that's why so many children and families are being hurt/killed. He didn't mention that many of the medical supplies they are running out of are supplied, free of charge, by Israel. He did not mention that children who are badly injured are transported to Israeli hospitals, and treated free of charge, when there is a ceasefire in place. He did not mention that supplies of all kinds (food, medicine, clothing) are all transported in during a ceasefire and that it is almost always Israel who asks for a ceasefire so they can get civilians who are hurt out of there, but Hamas frequently refuses the ceasefire options. If he had mentioned those things, I would consider that an unbiased report, but when he fails to mention them, I find it to be biased. ETA: I did not refer to it as an 'article' I used the words 'presentation' and 'report'. I know it was not an article, or a 3 minute blip on the nightly news. The video was not made for the purpose of why or who was responsible. You seem to be totally missing the point of the video. It was intended and by all reports also understood by many to be the voice of the children of Gaza. " Please stop" Jon Snow has taken it upon himself to appeal on their behalf. The children are not interested in who or why they are being killed or maimed in this war they want it to stop. This is an extract from what he said and the only time he mentioned either side:
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Deleted
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Oct 6, 2024 12:32:26 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2014 19:21:50 GMT
Becky - Of course medical doctors have political viewpoints but that first link is written by Doctors that are in Gaza at the moment. As quoted in the article
they are there,they are witnessing this with their own eyes. Who are we to decide what they should or shouldn't say in an open letter.
Why wouldn't the Lancet publish their letter? The Lancet like many other publication hopefully, doesn't censor their open letters, because if they did then we're going down a very slippery slope.
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Post by I-95 on Jul 28, 2014 19:47:46 GMT
BarbaraUK said:
Thank you so much. That makes it easier to understand when you (Brits) say your reporting is unbiased. The US tends to have channels that are more biased as a whole, rather than each report. We do get Sky News here, as well as the BBC, but to be honest, these days anyway, as soon as I hear what I believe to be a one sided report, I change the channel or turn the TV off. That's true whether it's British, American, French, or Israeli. I think I'm on overload and my ability to handle one more dead baby photo is quite limited right now. I appreciate your taking the time to respond. Thank you.
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Post by lucyg on Jul 28, 2014 19:53:35 GMT
Just read the Lancet letter and I too am speechless. It doesn't matter whether it was written by doctors or by political hacks, it is not an unbiased piece of medical reporting ... it is a political manifesto and it is blatantly biased.
Paragraph [HASH]2 says: On the basis of our ethics and practice, we are denouncing what we witness in the aggression of Gaza by Israel.
And it goes downhill from there. Including all about how the Palestinians are trying to establish peace, but the Israelis just refuse to go along.
Once again, only someone who is predisposed to dislike the Israelis could buy into this starry-eyed bullsh*t.
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Post by lucyg on Jul 28, 2014 19:58:11 GMT
And I forgot to mention earlier, someone up thread was wondering whether the U.S. has any reporters in the field.
Why, yes. Yes, we do. Every major news outlet, both print and TV, has journalists on the ground in Israel and Gaza or the West Bank. Some of them are Arab themselves. I think we're getting a pretty good look at both sides of the story.
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Post by BeckyTech on Jul 28, 2014 21:05:49 GMT
Becky - Of course medical doctors have political viewpoints but that first link is written by Doctors that are in Gaza at the moment. As quoted in the article they are there,they are witnessing this with their own eyes. Who are we to decide what they should or shouldn't say in an open letter. Why wouldn't the Lancet publish their letter? The Lancet like many other publication hopefully, doesn't censor their open letters, because if they did then we're going down a very slippery slope. Your original statement was: I don't care who they are, where they are, or what platform they use, any simpleton can see that there is a humanitarian crises. You won't get any argument on that from me or anyone else here that I've seen voice an opinion one way or the other. A political statement is a political statement no matter who writes it or where it is published. Just because their statement was published in a medical journal doesn't give it any more weight than if it were published on a Facebook wall or a bathroom wall. The verbiage used and the amount of space they devoted to blame were what made this a very naked political statement rather than a humanitarian one. If their opinions on the "facts" (key words: as we see them) were the exact opposite and put the blame squarely on Hamas and the Palestinian Authority, it would still be nothing more than a political statement and I would have the exact same comments. Maybe our disconnect is that I see humanitarian aid (and the support thereof) as apolitical and you do not?
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Post by I-95 on Jul 28, 2014 21:46:23 GMT
Dottyscrapper said:
I am not quoting everything you said in your post, but since it's all on this page folks won't have far to go to see what you said, in full.
You were quoting Jon Snow and the things he said that showed he was unbiased, however, those quotes were taken from a 3 minute blip he did for Channel 4 after he got back from Gaza. Not from the video you linked the other day. The one you originally linked, and the one I was referring to, was much longer. I don't recall him saying the things in the longer video that he says in the blip. Am I wrong? Are these not two completely different videos? I just went and looked through your old posts and I couldn't find the original link anywhere. Did I miss it? Am I losing my mind? Am I imagining there was a longer video...like an actual documentary? Mmmm, nope, I don't think so. I'll go back and try looking for it again so I can watch it.
I'm guessing we don't define 'humanitarian appeals' the same way. When I hear that phrase I think of an organization, or an individual, appealing to their audience to do something...write letters, donate money, volunteer, or offer goods and services to a specific cause...like the injured children in Gaza, or the victims of Hurricane Katrina. Almost without exception a humanitarian appeal will be a biased piece simply based on the fact the piece is trying to persuade the audience to act in a certain way. Perhaps you could clarify what the phrase means in your lexicon.
I wasn't trying to turn anything into a political argument. I was trying to understand what you thought was biased and unbiased and simply used the Jon Snow piece as an example since you originally linked it. Part of having a discussion that doesn't turn into a war is understanding what the other party is trying to say. We come from different countries and the way a response is worded can be misunderstood. I was just trying to clarify the situation. But maybe that's a lost cause. You think that letter in the Lancet is unbiased and I think it is wildly inflammatory and biased, so no need to further clarify anything.
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Post by claudia123 on Jul 28, 2014 21:49:34 GMT
I found this an interesting site about the historical context of the war,which could help people understand why many people may not be as pro Israel as those in America. www.ifamericansknew.org/history/ Though the acts of hamas are terrorist and wrong it cannot be denied that if a part of america was systematically taken over by Muslims like the Jewish did to palestine over the last one hundred years there would be a reaction I am certain.
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Post by lucyg on Jul 28, 2014 22:00:59 GMT
I found this an interesting site about the historical context of the war,which could help people understand why many people may not be as pro Israel as those in America. www.ifamericansknew.org/history/ Though the acts of hamas are terrorist and wrong it cannot be denied that if a part of america was systematically taken over by Muslims like the Jewish did to palestine over the last one hundred years there would be a reaction I am certain. That site has been linked at least twice already in this thread. It is a blatantly anti-Israel site and the author has a long history of anti-Semitism. But whatever.
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Post by mollycoddle on Jul 28, 2014 22:03:17 GMT
I found this an interesting site about the historical context of the war,which could help people understand why many people may not be as pro Israel as those in America. www.ifamericansknew.org/history/ Though the acts of hamas are terrorist and wrong it cannot be denied that if a part of america was systematically taken over by Muslims like the Jewish did to palestine over the last one hundred years there would be a reaction I am certain. Wow. Gobsmacking. Maybe I missed it, but I did not see mention of Hamas rockets, tunnels,or the fact that they put their weapons in among the civilian population. Did I miss something?
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Post by claudia123 on Jul 28, 2014 22:09:23 GMT
How about this then Lucy www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/26/israel-palestine-context-of-war-israeli-viewAnd yes I am totally against the way hamas rmare reacting, however it is completely ignoring history to blame Palestine alone for this war. The horrendous actions of a terrorist group today does not replace the fact that Muslims were removed from Palestine unfairly decades ago and treated like criminals by the Jewish. This is not a one sided conflict.
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Post by BeckyTech on Jul 28, 2014 22:12:54 GMT
I found this an interesting site about the historical context of the war,which could help people understand why many people may not be as pro Israel as those in America. www.ifamericansknew.org/history/ Though the acts of hamas are terrorist and wrong it cannot be denied that if a part of america was systematically taken over by Muslims like the Jewish did to palestine over the last one hundred years there would be a reaction I am certain. This is now the third time this site has been brought up in this discussion. The research shows (quoting myself from page 3): ETA: As Lucy noted, the Alison Weir of this website is not to be confused with the famed author, Alison Weir.
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Post by claudia123 on Jul 28, 2014 22:15:43 GMT
Okay clearly the owner of that website is very anti semantic and I now disregard that website entirely. However did you read the other article I posted by the guardian? Clearly showing the war is not as one sides as people would like to believe.
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Post by lucyg on Jul 28, 2014 22:16:00 GMT
There were always Jews in Palestine ... they didn't just choose it randomly to invade and steal Palestinian land.
The original U.N. plan was to partition Palestine into separate nations. The Palestinians refused to accept any official Jewish presence in the homeland. They chose to leave rather than have a country of their own. They were not absorbed into other Arab countries and have turned down every opportunity to have a homeland of their own ever since.
The current state of Israel, even after adding in the lands taken in earlier wars, is very much smaller than the original area of Palestine.
But yes, I will read your link.
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conchita
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,141
Jul 1, 2014 11:25:58 GMT
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Post by conchita on Jul 28, 2014 22:34:43 GMT
How about this then Lucy www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/26/israel-palestine-context-of-war-israeli-viewAnd yes I am totally against the way hamas rmare reacting, however it is completely ignoring history to blame Palestine alone for this war. The horrendous actions of a terrorist group today does not replace the fact that Muslims were removed from Palestine unfairly decades ago and treated like criminals by the Jewish. This is not a one sided conflict. With that logic I can assume that you think it's okay for Palestinians to launch rockets at Israel *today* because they were unfairly displaced decades ago? This is a very poor justification for the suffering all the civilians, both Arab and Jew, are enduring right now. I'm really trying to understand but it really isn't adding up for me. What I've been saying is if Hamas stops launching rockets the war would end. Am I correct in thinking you are saying that if Israel returned the land back to the Palestinians the war would end? Because I, and many others here, have been repeatedly asking what is expected from Israel? Is it that they lay down their weapons and die? Return the land and die? Because no matter what they do the war won't end until Hamas has waged war until their last breath. They don't just want the land back. They want all of Israel destroyed and are willing to sacrifice their women and children to that end. I'm not saying Israel is without fault. But I also do not see Israel waging war on the Palestinians. If they did there would be no Palestinians today.
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Post by claudia123 on Jul 28, 2014 22:40:34 GMT
There was not "always" Jews in Palestine. Over 25 years from 1922 to 1947 the Jewish population went from having 3 percent to 77 percent of Palestinian land. The original Arabs were forced from there homes and treated like criminals and were offered back a tiny part of the land they had originally had, which was seen by many as a slap in the face. And although it is not justificafion for the acts of hamas, if the us had land taken and many of its citizens left under harsh military control would you be happy to sit back and think oh well let's not retaliate? I think not. The Palestinians have gone about this conflict in completely the wrong way and he's I concur there will probably now never be peace however the way people on this thread act is as if Israel have no fault in this war. That is simply not the case. In the past (most notably the Arab Israeli conflict) Israel did indeed wage war on Palestine, for example capturing villages that were Arab occupied and are somehow now shocked there is retaliation? This is a good website showing that many Jews realise this conflict has two side jewishvoiceforpeace.org/content/israeli-palestinian-conflict-101
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Deleted
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Oct 6, 2024 12:32:26 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2014 22:41:02 GMT
Neither I-95 you can't find the first one because I didn't link it. lynm did and it's on page 14. My apologies,there seem to be a mix up among so many posts on here going back and forth and also the dismissal of Jon Snow as a responsible experienced reporter by some on here that have probably never heard of him before,yet they feel they can judge him on one news report. The video I took those quotes was from a different one that he did after he returned from Gaza which was an appeal on behalf of the children of Gaza following what he had reported earlier in the week (lynm's link) for a news bulletin for Channel 4 news. The video I was referring to is here
We'll have to agree to disagree on the open letter from the Dr's I'm afraid. My opinion is based on the fact that it was written by medics at the scene and not on what is being reported in the media. If that is how they see things I'm not going to dismiss they're opinions, I'm not in a position to do so. I'm not there to witness the situation.
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Post by I-95 on Jul 28, 2014 22:52:04 GMT
ROTFLMAO!!! Y'know, I spent more than an hour scrolling through your posts trying to find that damn video!! It doesn't help that it's almost 2am here and I've been up for 20 hours!
With regard to the letter...look for one from other set of doctors in the next few days. Israeli doctors who treat Gaza patients are going mental over that letter. They are also outraged that the Lancet was the place it was published.
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