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Post by lucyg on Jul 29, 2014 17:58:30 GMT
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janellk
New Member
Posts: 9
Jun 26, 2014 4:38:55 GMT
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Post by janellk on Jul 29, 2014 19:18:06 GMT
Lucy - I totally agree with you!
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Post by *KatyCupcake* on Jul 29, 2014 20:19:28 GMT
Katycupcake - WHERE do you get your history info from. Britain did no such thing! Encourage? Read the legislation that was issued after the Arab revolt in Palestine between 1936- 39. Jeez if you are going to comment get your facts and historical records straight! You're right. I should have remembered how the British forced Jewish refugees who were coming into the British Mandate of Palestine during WWII into work camps (you know, the ones fleeing from the death camps in Europe while the rest of the Western world turned their backs). So "Zionism" technically wasn't encouraged by Britain. I'm sorry for the mix up on that statement. ETA: Honestly, not sure exactly what the rest of the world wanted the Jews to do during and after WWII. Many had family members still living in Jerusalem and just wanted to return home. They were refugees with no country to take them in. So when both the displaced Jews and displaced Palestinians were both offered a home land of their own, Palestinians were foolish to reject the opportunity. Given the circumstances post WWII there wasn't really another option.
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mapchic
Junior Member
Posts: 62
Jun 26, 2014 0:16:00 GMT
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Post by mapchic on Jul 29, 2014 20:24:38 GMT
*Incidentally, just for information, a lot of those tunnels have been there since the time of Alexander the Great! Source? It would be interesting to discover that tunnels going under the Israeli border and built with concrete have been there since Alexander the Great.
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Post by *KatyCupcake* on Jul 29, 2014 20:31:39 GMT
I just saw a graphic (sorry, can't figure out how to post it) that showed the REAL humanitarian disaster in Gaza. The money and materials Hamas spends on 1 tunnel could build 86 homes, 7 Mosques, 6 schools, 19 medical clinics. Each tunnel costs $3 Million and so far the IDF has found 30 tunnels. That's $90 Million that Hamas could have invested in the welfare of its own people.
Granted, this information comes from the IDF, but I personally have no reason to doubt these facts.
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Post by *KatyCupcake* on Jul 29, 2014 20:47:15 GMT
There was not "always" Jews in Palestine. Over 25 years from 1922 to 1947 the Jewish population went from having 3 percent to 77 percent of Palestinian land. The original Arabs were forced from there homes and treated like criminals and were offered back a tiny part of the land they had originally had, which was seen by many as a slap in the face. And although it is not justificafion for the acts of hamas, if the us had land taken and many of its citizens left under harsh military control would you be happy to sit back and think oh well let's not retaliate? I think not. The Palestinians have gone about this conflict in completely the wrong way and he's I concur there will probably now never be peace however the way people on this thread act is as if Israel have no fault in this war. That is simply not the case. In the past (most notably the Arab Israeli conflict) Israel did indeed wage war on Palestine, for example capturing villages that were Arab occupied and are somehow now shocked there is retaliation? This is a good website showing that many Jews realise this conflict has two side jewishvoiceforpeace.org/content/israeli-palestinian-conflict-101There were not always Europeans in North and South America either. Or Africa. Or Asia. Land has gone back and forth between people since the dawn of time. And since Israel was not "stolen" in the same manner as North America, South America, Africa, or Asia, and instead was CREATED for them by the United Nations with an equal opportunity for Palestinians, how can you suggest Israel is in the wrong here? What would you have had the Jewish refugees do post WWII? And you said yourself that prior to 1922, Palestinians owned only 3% of the land. So how on earth can you justify it as being "their land"? Obviously they gained more of it somehow. Who did they get it from? If Israel should give the land back to Palestinians because they were living on more of it in 1948, then Palestinians should give it back to whomever had more of it in 1922. And then they should give it back to Turkey. And they should give it back to Rome. And then it should be given back to the Jews who lived there when the Romans kicked them out.
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mapchic
Junior Member
Posts: 62
Jun 26, 2014 0:16:00 GMT
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Post by mapchic on Jul 29, 2014 20:59:03 GMT
Muslims were removed from Palestine unfairly decades ago Nope. Upon the creation of Israel Muslims in the region *choose* to leave. Of course they left thinking that the attack by the new nation's neighbors would succeed and they would be able to return to their homes. If you choose to leave and make common cause with a nation's enemies you can't be super surprised when you are not welcome back. This situation is different than that of Jews in the region who were in fact expelled from the nations surrounding Israel. They were welcomed into Israel and are a part of the thriving nation. Meanwhile the nations which attack Israel do not welcome those who were encouraged decades ago to leave. I will repeat myself... Most people don't realize that upon creation of Israel Muslim controlled nations in the region expelled most of their Jewish populations - generally with only the shirts on their backs. Meanwhile, Israel did *not* expel Arabs who lived there - they choose to leave. At the creation of Israel the surrounding nations could have done what Israel did - welcome those who choose to leave and make them part of the population of their countries (Egypt, Jordan, Syria). Instead they stuck them in a no-mans land and used the plight of their 'Palestinian brothers' (I would hope you would treat your brother better than that) as a propaganda tool. Even today there are many Arab Israeli citizens (20% of the population) who are the descendants of those who stayed. There are Arab members of the Knesset (the Israeli legislature) and all citizens of Israel share in the same rights and freedoms of citizenship - regardless of religion or ethnicity. The other nations in the region can not say the same in terms of the treatment of Jews or any other religious minority. The children of Israel are not in exactly the same position... but they are still in a very difficult position living their lives in the sure knowledge that they are surrounded by millions of people who want them dead. For example the children of Sderot live their lives with missiles raining down and with the need to always be 15 seconds away from a bomb shelter. These are children who live in a culture which values children and therefore makes sure to build bomb shelters on the playgrounds. Why no reporting about those children? How many reports did Jon Snow do about the Fogel family? Five members of the family (including a 3 month old) were murdered in their beds - leaving 3 other children as orphans. The BBC admitted after the fact that their failure to adequately cover that event was a failure. I give them credit for the admission - but better to get it right in the first place.
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BarbaraUK
Drama Llama
Surrounded by my yarn stash on the NE coast of England...............!! Refupea 1702
Posts: 5,961
Location: England UK
Jun 27, 2014 12:47:11 GMT
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Post by BarbaraUK on Jul 29, 2014 21:35:07 GMT
*Incidentally, just for information, a lot of those tunnels have been there since the time of Alexander the Great! Source? It would be interesting to discover that tunnels going under the Israeli border and built with concrete have been there since Alexander the Great. I said 'a lot' and that it was just for information! I did not mention the modern day tunnels or the Israeli border!! I thought it was just interesting information because I wasn't aware that tunnelling had been done for centuries there. Source: Here
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scrappinghappy
Pearl Clutcher
“I’m late, I’m late for a very important date. No time to say “Hello.” Goodbye. I’m late...."
Posts: 4,307
Jun 26, 2014 19:30:06 GMT
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Post by scrappinghappy on Jul 29, 2014 21:39:23 GMT
I'm coming back to this thread late so forgive me rehashing stuff from page 14 where it was mentioned that Hamas is imature. Have you googled their leaders and founders? They were/are SMART men and women and there is no doubt they knew/know EXACTLY what they are doing and how to manipulate social media and the press.
Khaled Mashal - current leader, bachelor of science degree in Physics from Kuwait University Isra al-Modallal - Hamas spokesperson. Grange Technology College in Bradford, England andsShe later graduated from the Islamic University of Gaza
Abdel Aziz al-Rantisi - founder, studied pediatric medicine and genetics at Egypt's Alexandria University, graduating first in his class - he wass a pediatrician for heaven's sake. Ahmed Yassin - founder, attended Al-Azhar University in Cairo, unable to pursue his studies there due to deteriorating health. Self educated and read widely, particularly on philosophical matters and on religion, politics, sociology, and economics Mahmoud al-Zahar - founder, graduated from the Cairo University Faculty of Medicine and received his Masters Degree in General Surgery from Ain Shams University, Cairo.
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Post by mollycoddle on Jul 29, 2014 21:42:30 GMT
Source? It would be interesting to discover that tunnels going under the Israeli border and built with concrete have been there since Alexander the Great. I said 'a lot' and that it was just for information! I did not mention the modern day tunnels or the Israeli border!! I thought it was just interesting information because I wasn't aware that tunnelling had been done for centuries there. Source: Here I read that recently as well; it was a very interesting article.
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BarbaraUK
Drama Llama
Surrounded by my yarn stash on the NE coast of England...............!! Refupea 1702
Posts: 5,961
Location: England UK
Jun 27, 2014 12:47:11 GMT
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Post by BarbaraUK on Jul 29, 2014 21:45:00 GMT
*Incidentally, just for information, a lot of those tunnels have been there since the time of Alexander the Great! Source? It would be interesting to discover that tunnels going under the Israeli border and built with concrete have been there since Alexander the Great. Additional information connected to previous post regarding this. The book is mentioned Here, Here and Here
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 12:33:35 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2014 21:45:41 GMT
No matter when the tunnels were built, they're now being reinforced with concrete and used to store weapons, as well as move terrorists with murderous intent across the border.
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Post by *KatyCupcake* on Jul 29, 2014 21:45:45 GMT
Many invading armies have used tunnel systems as a way to infiltrate their enemies. It's no shock that Alexander the Great used that method as well. What you quoted doesn't mean the tunnels being used in Gaza today are the same ones originally made by Alexander the Great in 332 BC nor does it mean those ancient tunnels still even exist at all today for them to use. The only thing your quote states is that the method of using tunnels in that region is not new. That doesn't mean Israel must have known Hamas was building new tunnels into Israel or reinforcing ancient tunnels with concrete today. But of course, I'm sure the IDF isn't ignorant and they knew there had to be ways weapons and people were being smuggled in and out of the region without going through the check points.
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BarbaraUK
Drama Llama
Surrounded by my yarn stash on the NE coast of England...............!! Refupea 1702
Posts: 5,961
Location: England UK
Jun 27, 2014 12:47:11 GMT
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Post by BarbaraUK on Jul 30, 2014 0:12:49 GMT
Many invading armies have used tunnel systems as a way to infiltrate their enemies. It's no shock that Alexander the Great used that method as well. What you quoted doesn't mean the tunnels being used in Gaza today are the same ones originally made by Alexander the Great in 332 BC nor does it mean those ancient tunnels still even exist at all today for them to use. The only thing your quote states is that the method of using tunnels in that region is not new. That doesn't mean Israel must have known Hamas was building new tunnels into Israel or reinforcing ancient tunnels with concrete today. But of course, I'm sure the IDF isn't ignorant and they knew there had to be ways weapons and people were being smuggled in and out of the region without going through the check points. Well, I applaud your historical knowledge of the Middle East. I have been there and did not know that tunnels had been used for centuries for the purposes discussed. I am not silly enough to assume this and did not say anywhere that the tunnels being used in Gaza today are the same ones......and 'the method of using tunnels in that area is not new' is the only thing I intended my quote to say!! Did you read the article linked before rushing into print to pour scorn on me because you immediately decided it was criticism of Israel? CNN also mention the history of the tunnels. Did you also miss in my reply to Mapchic that I mentioned the point just for information. I will now further add that I had been researching these tunnels and found their history extremely interesting. You know, I have never expressed my personal views here on the Middle East crisis but you seem to have assumed that you know.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 12:33:35 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2014 0:42:00 GMT
I'm sorry I can't see the connection. Jon Snow as far as I know and I'm pretty certain in saying it, has never worked for the BBC.
Yes, many people expressed their opinion that the BBC hadn't adequately covered such a horrendous crime,it goes on all the time.( criticism of the BBC that is). As you say they apologized for the lack of coverage at the time it happened. The fault lies with the controller/producers surely and has nothing to do with Jon Snow. Wasn't CNN accused of the same?
There have been reports about the residents of Sderot including the children. Wasn't that the place that the CNN reporter tweeted photos that were originally taken by a Danish cameraman of them watching and cheering from a hillside when the rockets were intercepted by the iron dome. Wasn't she threatened by some of them trying to damage her car and called them scum for doing so. She was transferred somewhere else out of Israel by CNN if I recall. You're right, Jon Snow didn't report on that.
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Post by *KatyCupcake* on Jul 30, 2014 0:59:55 GMT
BarbaraUK, You said: "*Incidentally, just for information, a lot of those tunnels have been there since the time of Alexander the Great!"
I'm sorry if I misunderstood, but it sounded to me that you were claiming that "those tunnels" that Hamas is using today, which are the ones we've been discussing in this thread, are the same ones that were made by Alexander the Great. I was simply responding to that statement and the part of the article you quoted here because it came across as you saying Hamas isn't building new tunnels and they are simply using ones that have been there for centuries. It was not a race to attack you. I just misunderstood why you used the article. I mistook it as you quoting it to prove Hamas wasn't building tunnels and since the tunnels had been there for centuries, Israel should have known about them and couldn't use the tunnels as justification for their actions in Gaza. Perhaps you can understand how I misunderstood given the context of the discussion and how you phrased your posts. To me, your posts have come across as pro-Palestinian so I'm sorry if I wrongly assumed that was your position.
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Post by stefdesign on Jul 31, 2014 11:54:59 GMT
btt. Just because it's taking me days to read this, and I'm tired of having to dig for it. Awesome thread!
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Post by I-95 on Jul 31, 2014 12:24:39 GMT
This is a speech to the IDF troops fighting in Gaza. Given by Major General ( Ret) Avigdor Kahalani. It's long, but it's worth reading.
“We never taught you to hate.” He said, "Not this army, not the Israel Defense Forces. We never taught you to hate. And there are armies in the world who do that. And I don’t know, maybe it works to a degree, maybe by hating the enemy, you are a fiercer fighter. I don’t know. But we never taught you that. And I’ll tell you why. If we teach you to hate, you can’t undo that. You’ll come back from the war and it won’t be the “enemy”, it will be your brother-in-law, or your neighbor or your former friend. Once you teach people to hate, they’ll find someone to hate. So we never taught you that” .
"We never taught you that. You know why you’re here. It’s not to hate anybody. It’s to defend your people, your homes and your families. Each of you has to feel as if the whole fate of the whole people of Israel is on you shoulders. Each of you holds that fate in your hands. But it’s not about hatred. And now you’ve inherited that tradition from my generation, and you’ll be the ones to continue it. But those who inherit have a responsibility. I know you won’t disappoint me.”
To the Palestinian people of Gaza: We don’t hate you. We don’t wish you ill. We want only to live in peace side by side with you. When you come out of wherever you’ve been able to take refuge, ask yourself why Hamas never built you any shelters to protect you. They’re great at digging tunnels after all. They’ve dug them under our border, intending to murder as many of our civilians as possible; our women and children, gathered in agricultural village dining halls. Not soldiers, not warriors, but our women and children and old people. So they’re good at building tunnels. Why didn’t they build any for you to take shelter in? Then look at your neighborhoods, which are destroyed now because they housed the entrance points to those tunnels, not next to your homes but IN your homes! They turned your homes and neighborhoods into rocket launching sites and weapons storage depots. Not by accident, but to make you vulnerable, to insure, in fact, that you would be in harm’s way no matter how many warnings Israel issued before it attacked. Ask why Hamas told you to ignore those warnings and that it was your duty to stay in those neighborhoods which they had turned into military targets. Ask yourself why Hamas didn’t accept the Egyptian Cease fire proposal which would have prevented the ground invasion and all the subsequent death and destruction. It wasn’t a Zionist plot. It was an Egyptian proposal, endorsed by the Arab League and Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas. AND ISRAEL ACCEPTED IT IMMEDIATELY AND UNCONDITIONALLY!! It was Hamas which rejected it by launching a massive rocket attack, followed up by four separate terrorist tunnel attacks aimed not at our soldiers but at our women and children, who were meant to be murdered, maimed and taken hostage, dragged back through those tunnels into Gaza, so Khaled Mashal could declare a Divine Victory ,from a five star hotel in Qatar while you eat the dust of Gaza. Look at your neighborhoods. How’s Hamas’s Holy War working out for you? Are your lives better? Do your children have a better future? Do they have ANY future but suffering? Hamas and their ilk have been trying to drive us into the sea for over a hundred years now. How’s that working out for you? Look at your lives and look at ours. Despite not knowing one day of peace, our cities are beautiful, our women are gorgeous, our men handsome, our children, the apple of our eyes, our industry flourishes, our start up nation is the envy of the world. Our sense of personal happiness , though we have been constant victims of terrorist attacks and war, is amongst the highest of any people on earth. We live longer, have more college graduates, more computers more scientific papers published, more artists, musicians, scientists and entrepreneurs per capita than almost any place on earth. Our cows produce more milk than any other dairy cattle. Our agriculture exists almost entirely on reclaimed water and no country on earth does more with desalinated water than Israel. Draughts which would destroy another country have no affect on us. And we’ve done all that despite Hamas and their ilk’s stated plans to destroy us. You’ve gone to war against us three times in the last five years. You’ve initiated each one and we’ve begged you before each, not to launch more rockets at us. But each time you were promised a new divine victory. The rockets would be the sword that would defeat us. We invented Iron Dome. The tunnels would be Hamas’s “surprise” that would “open the gates of hell to us” We’re inside those tunnels right now. Blowing them up. And who has paid the bitterest price? You. Is it worth it? Are you getting something out of all this? Here’s an idea. You’ve tried war three times in five years? Try something new. Try peace. You don’t even have to call it peace. . Just stop trying to kill us and prepare to be amazed at how good your lives will become. But what about the siege? The so called “siege” which is nothing more than a sanction regime, was put in place BECAUSE YOU KEEP TRYING TO KILL US! So stop. You’re smart people. You’re industrious people. Stop trying to kill us and you won’t need to be a martyr to get into Paradise. You’ll have Paradise on earth. You can become the Singapore of the Middle East. You have beautiful beaches that can be developed for tourism. You’re on the Mediteranean for goodness sake! You are creative and hard working and talented. Put those talents to use at trying to improve your lives instead of trying to end ours. You will become the gateway between Europe and the Middle East. There are donors lined up and waiting to offer you a Marshal Plan that will make your lives sweet. The plan that Khaled Mashal has for you, however, leads only to death. You don’t even have to love us. You don’t even have to like us. In fact you can continue to hate us, if that gives you some sort of emotional comfort. It won’t bother us. Knock yourselves out. Just stop trying to kill us When Hamas tells you it’s a Holy War tell them to read the Quran. The Sura of The Children of Israel; Sura 17:104, “And we said to the Children of Israel, Dwell securely in the Promised Land, and when the last warning comes, we will gather you together in a mingled crowd” THAT’S US!! How much more mingled can we get? We’ve been gathered together, not just according to our prophecy, but to yours! We come from every corner of the earth, because for two thousand years every Jew on Earth, who celebrates Passover or Yom Kippur, be they black, white, brown or any of the rainbow hues the make up our people, says, “ Next Year in Jerusalem”. So read THAT part of the Quran when they tell you to strap a suicide belt onto your son or daughter.. And for all your supporters and enablers, for those who march to end the death and destruction, if you really care about the Palestinians of Gaza, as you claim to, just tell them to try to stop trying to kill us. Give it a decade. Try it. We’re not going anywhere. You won’t defeat us. You won’t destroy us. You won't cast us into such despair that we leave the land we’ve yearned for, worked for, sweated and bled for for two thousand years. We won’t withdraw from the Middle East. Because we live here. Our religion wasn’t born in Poland. It was born here. Our language wasn’t born in Russia or America or France or Ethiopia or Yemen or Morocco. It was born here. And I promise you, we won’t become war weary. We can’t afford to. Just stop trying to kill us. Because we don’t hate you. We don’t teach our children or our soldiers to hate you. The words of our national anthem sum up the only thing we want; Lihiot am chofshi bi artzeinu, Eretz Zion, Yerushalayim ..” To be a free people. in our land. The land of Zion, Jerusalem.” Just like it says in the Quran.
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61redhead
Full Member
Refupea #1938
Posts: 456
Location: South Carolina
Jun 28, 2014 11:27:52 GMT
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Post by 61redhead on Jul 31, 2014 12:52:34 GMT
I-95 said:
This is an awesome and awe-inspiring speech! Thank you so much for sharing it!
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 12:33:35 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2014 14:33:54 GMT
Thanks to you for sharing that speech I-95. I'm saving it so I can read it again later.
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Post by BeckyTech on Jul 31, 2014 16:53:29 GMT
Every word.
Thanks for sharing.
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Post by lucyg on Jul 31, 2014 18:37:49 GMT
That speech is amazing. I wish it would actually be effective.
And ... I have long since bookmarked this thread. I think I'll be referring back to it for years to come. So much good information.
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purplebee
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,790
Jun 27, 2014 20:37:34 GMT
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Post by purplebee on Jul 31, 2014 20:50:11 GMT
Wow, I-95, thank you for sharing the speech. It it soul stirring, and cuts right to the chase: stop trying to kill us. This thread has been the best education I could have received regarding the conflict. Thanks to all who have contributed.
I am praying even harder for peace.
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Post by *KatyCupcake* on Jul 31, 2014 21:17:02 GMT
Sigh. The other thread saddens me so much. How frustrating.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 12:33:35 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2014 21:46:35 GMT
Sigh. The other thread saddens me so much. How frustrating. Why is it not okay to ask tough questions or want saftey for the innocents on all sides? Why is any question about this wrong. I just don't get this hard line that some are drawing. It is very off putting.
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Post by KiwiJo on Jul 31, 2014 22:23:02 GMT
I hear on our local news broadcasts how Israel warns the people of Gaza before they send in rockets/bombs, and I see it's been mentioned several times in this thread. But what I am unclear about, is where should the people go. Are they able to freely leave Gaza?
It seems that the 'safe havens' are being used by Hamas as rocket launching sites, so I guess that the local citizens really shouldn't be heading for schools, refuge centres etc. Does anyone know if they are able to easily leave Gaza completely?
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Post by *KatyCupcake* on Jul 31, 2014 22:33:47 GMT
Sigh. The other thread saddens me so much. How frustrating. Why is it not okay to ask tough questions or want saftey for the innocents on all sides? Why is any question about this wrong. I just don't get this hard line that some are drawing. It is very off putting. I didn't say they couldn't ask the tough questions. You are assuming I think asking questions makes me sad. Ask all the questions you want. What makes me sad is the manner and means. I'm sad that Palestinian children are dying. What also saddens me is that people overlook Hamas' mission in all of this. I blame Hamas for terrorist activities towards Israel. I blame Hamas for turning safe areas in Gaza into militarized ones. I blame Hamas for their own rockets misfiring and killing civilians. I blame Hamas for using their children as shields and martyrs. I do not blame Israel for defending its civilians and securing its borders from terrorists. I also do not blame Israel for heavily controlling borders it shares with a people who have elected a terrorist organization whose mission is clearly stated to wipe Israel off the earth. I can feel sadness over the loss of Palestinian civilians. I just cannot support terrorist Hamas. Now that does not mean I think Israel is always right, but I do feel they are MORE right than Hamas. I also am saddened by the overall tone of the other thread.
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mely
Junior Member
Posts: 89
Jun 25, 2014 19:51:59 GMT
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Post by mely on Aug 1, 2014 2:35:29 GMT
Honestly the more I read about it the more convinced I am that Hamas filled a void and when Israel wipes them out the replacement will be worse. I hadn't done much research but I have a couple of Jewish friends who kept posting stuff about boycotting Israel and I couldn't figure out why. Anyways - I've been trying to find diverse international news sources because I feel like the American media is very one sided and that you can't judge the situation as we see it now but look at it in context over the last 100 years. The whole thing is heartbreaking but our countries unquestioning devotion to Israel scares me. And if anyone cares - I liked this site to counterbalance the usual news www.ifamericansknew.orgSent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
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Post by anxiousmom on Aug 1, 2014 2:45:13 GMT
Why is it not okay to ask tough questions or want saftey for the innocents on all sides? Why is any question about this wrong. I just don't get this hard line that some are drawing. It is very off putting. I didn't say they couldn't ask the tough questions. You are assuming I think asking questions makes me sad. Ask all the questions you want. What makes me sad is the manner and means. I'm sad that Palestinian children are dying. What also saddens me is that people overlook Hamas' mission in all of this. I blame Hamas for terrorist activities towards Israel. I blame Hamas for turning safe areas in Gaza into militarized ones. I blame Hamas for their own rockets misfiring and killing civilians. I blame Hamas for using their children as shields and martyrs. I do not blame Israel for defending its civilians and securing its borders from terrorists. I also do not blame Israel for heavily controlling borders it shares with a people who have elected a terrorist organization whose mission is clearly stated to wipe Israel off the earth. I can feel sadness over the loss of Palestinian civilians. I just cannot support terrorist Hamas. Now that does not mean I think Israel is always right, but I do feel they are MORE right than Hamas. I also am saddened by the overall tone of the other thread. I thought the tone of the other thread was not at all disappointing. There are lots of questions and concerns and until a real discussion occurs, there will be no solutions. Personally, because of my nature and love of history, I tend to place conflicts into a historical context. I am trying to sort it out and am a little frustrated in thinking that questions=wrongness.
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Post by *KatyCupcake* on Aug 1, 2014 3:24:29 GMT
Honestly the more I read about it the more convinced I am that Hamas filled a void and when Israel wipes them out the replacement will be worse. I can see how that might be true. Hamas came when Hezbollah and the PLO weren't effective enough in the opinion of many Palestinians. But their motivation is not to simply live in peace with neighboring Israel. Their motivation is to destroy Israel and that is why Hamas was chosen as leadership. So yes, it's possible if Israel destroys Hamas, Palestinians will simply turn to more destructive leadership. So should Israel stop protecting its borders? Should they allow Hamas to carry out their mission? That would mean you expect Israel to sacrifice itself to terrorists. To allow terrorists to kill Israeli children. To let Hamas fulfill their plans to drive Israel into the sea. And then where will Hamas turn its terrorist hatred? Because once that kind of hatred is planted and watered and fed, it won't simply go away once Israel is gone.
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