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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2015 18:13:38 GMT
I don't see ANY glorifying of the murderer. Although I do see the excuses. :/ That's because that happens a little bit later. There are four stages in crisis reporting: 1. Fact finding - "Breaking News" 2. Unfolding drama - focus on victims and their response, history, etc. 3. Blame game - how did this person become like this? Was he not loved enough as a child? (etc, ad nauseam) 4. Resolution/lessons learned - fallout/resolution. There might be a funeral, a government inquiry, or a Senate hearing. Your product goes back on the shelf, workers go back to the plant, victims return to their homes. We are only in stage one. It will take days to go through all of these. Well personally I believe that is all important. We need to find out why these things are happening. We need to understand.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2015 18:14:38 GMT
Yup not a thug. Just mentally ill. Amazing isn't it? My impression that the word "thug" was used in a totally different situation involving the police. This kid is a downright murderer and there's no way that I would call that any better than a thug. Exactly. This guy has moved well passed thuggery into murder.
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valleyview
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 27, 2014 18:41:26 GMT
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Post by valleyview on Jun 18, 2015 18:15:05 GMT
I think that we really need to address hate crimes in our country and, as much as I love our Bill of Rights, it just seems too easy for guns to get in the wrong hands.
Any act of violence against any group exercising their religious beliefs is a hate crime. It should not matter what color or religion they are. He may be mentally ill, but his crime was terror and hate.
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back to *pea*ality
Pearl Clutcher
Not my circus, not my monkeys ~refugee pea #59
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Jun 25, 2014 19:51:11 GMT
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Post by back to *pea*ality on Jun 18, 2015 18:15:21 GMT
Praying for those who were murdered while praying in God's House last night and the survivors whose lives are forever changed.
Anyone who would violate a house of worship to do such carnage is evil incarnate - the poster boy for the death penalty or life in a supermax prison where he never sees the light of day.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2015 18:21:54 GMT
Well personally I believe that is all important. We need to find out why these things are happening. We need to understand. But we know why. Because he is insignificant and filled with hate and wanted to be somebody. And they were easy targets for a coward. I don't think it's that simple. Why did his father give him a gun? After he had been arrested twice. Why is he so against blacks? And on and on. Just my opinion.
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
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La Pea Boheme
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Post by Dalai Mama on Jun 18, 2015 18:27:45 GMT
But we know why. Because he is insignificant and filled with hate and wanted to be somebody. And they were easy targets for a coward. I don't think it's that simple. Why did his father give him a gun? After he had been arrested twice. Why is he so against blacks? And on and on. Just my opinion. If I were to hazard a guess, the answers would be 1) because his father's a fucking idiot and, 2) because he grew up in a society that is plagued by systemic racism.
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama
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Quit your bullpoop.
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Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on Jun 18, 2015 18:28:31 GMT
But we know why. Because he is insignificant and filled with hate and wanted to be somebody. And they were easy targets for a coward. I don't think it's that simple. Why did his father give him a gun? After he had been arrested twice. Why is he so against blacks? And on and on. Just my opinion. Personally, I don't need to know any of those things. What I want to know is: who did it, did they catch the person, was it willful or was he insane, what will the punishment be. He is against blacks because he was either raised to be so or decided to be so on his own, either way it is a hate filled mentality that will not be tolerated.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2015 18:28:36 GMT
I don't think it's that simple. Why did his father give him a gun? After he had been arrested twice. Why is he so against blacks? And on and on. Just my opinion. If I were to hazard a guess, the answers would be 1) because his father's a fucking idiot and, 2) because he grew up in a society that is plagued by systemic racism. True. I just hope that maybe this can bring on changes to our gun laws. Something has to give.
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama
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Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on Jun 18, 2015 18:30:01 GMT
If I were to hazard a guess, the answers would be 1) because his father's a fucking idiot and, 2) because he grew up in a society that is plagued by systemic racism. True. I just hope that maybe this can bring on changes to our gun laws. Something has to give. What changes exactly would you like to see?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2015 18:42:12 GMT
If I were to hazard a guess, the answers would be 1) because his father's a fucking idiot and, 2) because he grew up in a society that is plagued by systemic racism. True. I just hope that maybe this can bring on changes to our gun laws. Something has to give. Since January 1, 2015 1,119 people in Chicago have been shot. That is more than 6 people a day in the Chicago metro area alone. I think we'd be better off focusing on the very real issue of illegal guns and the damage those cause before trying to legislate any additional changes to our gun laws. After all, if Chicago has some of the toughest gun laws in the nation, it sure seems to me that toughening gun laws aren't doing shit for the city of Chicago.
I'm for extensive background checks in order to legally own a gun. I would even consider the thought of penalizing the father in this case for providing his son, who if for no other reason had a drug problem, possibly a mental health issue, and an arrest record...someone who clearly should not have had a gun.
Making it more and more difficult for law abiding individuals that want to own a firearm does nothing in regards to the problem of guns in the hands of people that shouldn't have them. See Chicago numbers above. (for the record, I do not own a gun, do not want a gun, and at this time, don't ever see myself wanting a gun...so I'm not some crazy gun rights person)
crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/shootings/
crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/shootings/
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2015 18:50:14 GMT
True. I just hope that maybe this can bring on changes to our gun laws. Something has to give. Since January 1, 2015 1,119 people in Chicago have been shot. That is more than 6 people a day in the Chicago metro area alone. I think we'd be better off focusing on the very real issue of illegal guns and the damage those cause before trying to legislate any additional changes to our gun laws. After all, if Chicago has some of the toughest gun laws in the nation, it sure seems to me that toughening gun laws aren't doing shit for the city of Chicago.
I'm for extensive background checks in order to legally own a gun. I would even consider the thought of penalizing the father in this case for providing his son, who if for no other reason had a drug problem, possibly a mental health issue, and an arrest record...someone who clearly should not have had a gun.
Making it more and more difficult for law abiding individuals that want to own a firearm does nothing in regards to the problem of guns in the hands of people that shouldn't have them. See Chicago numbers above. (for the record, I do not own a gun, do not want a gun, and at this time, don't ever see myself wanting a gun...so I'm not some crazy gun rights person)
crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/shootings/
crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/shootings/
I lived in Chicago for years. I know the issues. I just don't agree with you one bit that we ignore one for the other. I think there needs to be across the board federal guidelines, background checks, medical checks, registration and licensing. It's way too easy where I live and many other places. No one has to agree with me. But that's how I feel. My mind will not be swayed.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2015 19:07:44 GMT
Since January 1, 2015 1,119 people in Chicago have been shot. That is more than 6 people a day in the Chicago metro area alone. I think we'd be better off focusing on the very real issue of illegal guns and the damage those cause before trying to legislate any additional changes to our gun laws. After all, if Chicago has some of the toughest gun laws in the nation, it sure seems to me that toughening gun laws aren't doing shit for the city of Chicago.
I'm for extensive background checks in order to legally own a gun. I would even consider the thought of penalizing the father in this case for providing his son, who if for no other reason had a drug problem, possibly a mental health issue, and an arrest record...someone who clearly should not have had a gun.
Making it more and more difficult for law abiding individuals that want to own a firearm does nothing in regards to the problem of guns in the hands of people that shouldn't have them. See Chicago numbers above. (for the record, I do not own a gun, do not want a gun, and at this time, don't ever see myself wanting a gun...so I'm not some crazy gun rights person)
crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/shootings/
crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/shootings/
I lived in Chicago for years. I know the issues. I just don't agree with you one bit that we ignore one for the other. I think there needs to be across the board federal guidelines, background checks, medical checks, registration and licensing. It's way too easy where I live and many other places. No one has to agree with me. But that's how I feel. My mind will not be swayed. But none of those proposed changes are going to make a difference when so many have illegal guns.
To possess or purchase firearms or ammunition, Illinois residents must have a Firearm Owner's Identification (FOID) card, which is issued by the Illinois State Police. The police must issue FOID cards to eligible applicants. An applicant is disqualified if he or she has been convicted of a felony or an act of domestic violence, is the subject of an order of protection, has been convicted of assault or battery or been a patient in a mental institution within the last five years, has been adjudicated as a mental defective, or is an illegal immigrant. There are additional requirements for applicants under the age of 21.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2015 19:15:22 GMT
I lived in Chicago for years. I know the issues. I just don't agree with you one bit that we ignore one for the other. I think there needs to be across the board federal guidelines, background checks, medical checks, registration and licensing. It's way too easy where I live and many other places. No one has to agree with me. But that's how I feel. My mind will not be swayed. But none of those proposed changes are going to make a difference when so many have illegal guns.
To possess or purchase firearms or ammunition, Illinois residents must have a Firearm Owner's Identification (FOID) card, which is issued by the Illinois State Police. The police must issue FOID cards to eligible applicants. An applicant is disqualified if he or she has been convicted of a felony or an act of domestic violence, is the subject of an order of protection, has been convicted of assault or battery or been a patient in a mental institution within the last five years, has been adjudicated as a mental defective, or is an illegal immigrant. There are additional requirements for applicants under the age of 21.
I understand that. Again I lived there. I still think that legal gun ownership needs to be tightened. This kid had a legal gun. That's what I'm talking about. Here in Florida any many other states you don't have to do anything to get a gun besides a background check that is a joke in many cases. I stand by my views. Something has to be changed. www.rawstory.com/2015/06/guns-rarely-used-for-self-defense-in-us-there-are-32-criminal-homicides-for-every-1-justifiable-shooting/
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Post by scrappysurfer on Jun 18, 2015 20:10:32 GMT
This is in my beloved hometown. We are all shocked and saddened that such a senseless act happened, not only in a house of God, but to people who welcomed their killer with open arms to share their faith. Hearts are broken in our city. There were a number of prayer vigils this morning, and the crowds outside broke out not in protest or anger, but hymns of faith. It was awe inspiring to witness even in this time of sadness.
I pray for the families of those lost.
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Post by Skypea on Jun 18, 2015 20:26:16 GMT
True. I just hope that maybe this can bring on changes to our gun laws. Something has to give. Since January 1, 2015 1,119 people in Chicago have been shot. That is more than 6 people a day in the Chicago metro area alone. I think we'd be better off focusing on the very real issue of illegal guns and the damage those cause before trying to legislate any additional changes to our gun laws. After all, if Chicago has some of the toughest gun laws in the nation, it sure seems to me that toughening gun laws aren't doing shit for the city of Chicago.
I'm for extensive background checks in order to legally own a gun. I would even consider the thought of penalizing the father in this case for providing his son, who if for no other reason had a drug problem, possibly a mental health issue, and an arrest record...someone who clearly should not have had a gun.
Making it more and more difficult for law abiding individuals that want to own a firearm does nothing in regards to the problem of guns in the hands of people that shouldn't have them. See Chicago numbers above. (for the record, I do not own a gun, do not want a gun, and at this time, don't ever see myself wanting a gun...so I'm not some crazy gun rights person)
crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/shootings/
yep. and how many times has DBO flapped his lips about it the day after 1 of those shootings? I haven't heard any. yet right away this a.m. there he was... using it for political gain - gun control. but he doesn't want to draw attention to Chicago where Rahm is mayor and where it's blacks shooting blacks.
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama
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Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on Jun 18, 2015 20:26:29 GMT
But none of those proposed changes are going to make a difference when so many have illegal guns.
To possess or purchase firearms or ammunition, Illinois residents must have a Firearm Owner's Identification (FOID) card, which is issued by the Illinois State Police. The police must issue FOID cards to eligible applicants. An applicant is disqualified if he or she has been convicted of a felony or an act of domestic violence, is the subject of an order of protection, has been convicted of assault or battery or been a patient in a mental institution within the last five years, has been adjudicated as a mental defective, or is an illegal immigrant. There are additional requirements for applicants under the age of 21.
I understand that. Again I lived there. I still think that legal gun ownership needs to be tightened. This kid had a legal gun. That's what I'm talking about. Here in Florida any many other states you don't have to do anything to get a gun besides a background check that is a joke in many cases. I stand by my views. Something has to be changed. www.rawstory.com/2015/06/guns-rarely-used-for-self-defense-in-us-there-are-32-criminal-homicides-for-every-1-justifiable-shooting/I think I get what you're saying...that legal gun owners should have enforceable guidelines or laws (or both) to prompt responsible gun ownership and usage. I agree with that. If everyone who sought a gun license had to go through some rigorous handling and secure storage classes, plus perhaps some moral responsibility classes, then we might see a reduction in how these legally owned weapons wind up in the hands of people like this kid. I agree with that.
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Post by Regina Phalange on Jun 18, 2015 20:40:49 GMT
But none of those proposed changes are going to make a difference when so many have illegal guns.
To possess or purchase firearms or ammunition, Illinois residents must have a Firearm Owner's Identification (FOID) card, which is issued by the Illinois State Police. The police must issue FOID cards to eligible applicants. An applicant is disqualified if he or she has been convicted of a felony or an act of domestic violence, is the subject of an order of protection, has been convicted of assault or battery or been a patient in a mental institution within the last five years, has been adjudicated as a mental defective, or is an illegal immigrant. There are additional requirements for applicants under the age of 21.
I understand that. Again I lived there. I still think that legal gun ownership needs to be tightened. This kid had a legal gun. That's what I'm talking about. Here in Florida any many other states you don't have to do anything to get a gun besides a background check that is a joke in many cases. I stand by my views. Something has to be changed. www.rawstory.com/2015/06/guns-rarely-used-for-self-defense-in-us-there-are-32-criminal-homicides-for-every-1-justifiable-shooting/I agree, you can scream "illegal guns! illegal guns!" all you want, but the fact of the matter is that these types of tragedies have been happening with people who have obtained guns LEGALLY. We can't throw our hands up altogether just because we haven't found a solution to the illegal guns.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2015 20:43:42 GMT
Since January 1, 2015 1,119 people in Chicago have been shot. That is more than 6 people a day in the Chicago metro area alone. I think we'd be better off focusing on the very real issue of illegal guns and the damage those cause before trying to legislate any additional changes to our gun laws. After all, if Chicago has some of the toughest gun laws in the nation, it sure seems to me that toughening gun laws aren't doing shit for the city of Chicago.
I'm for extensive background checks in order to legally own a gun. I would even consider the thought of penalizing the father in this case for providing his son, who if for no other reason had a drug problem, possibly a mental health issue, and an arrest record...someone who clearly should not have had a gun.
Making it more and more difficult for law abiding individuals that want to own a firearm does nothing in regards to the problem of guns in the hands of people that shouldn't have them. See Chicago numbers above. (for the record, I do not own a gun, do not want a gun, and at this time, don't ever see myself wanting a gun...so I'm not some crazy gun rights person)
crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/shootings/
yep. and how many times has DBO flapped his lips about it the day after 1 of those shootings? I haven't heard any. yet right away this a.m. there he was... using it for political gain - gun control. but he doesn't want to draw attention to Chicago where Rahm is mayor and where it's blacks shooting blacks.
Just an observation skypea. Your rants really do make a very compelling argument against free speech.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2015 20:53:11 GMT
Good gravy. What are they thinking? ![](http://d.pr/i/19ri1+)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2015 21:11:26 GMT
Good gravy. What are they thinking? ![](http://d.pr/i/19ri1+) This is a comment I saw when I googled about flying flags at half mast. "The flag pole on the dome has an American flag on top and the proper state flag under it. In front of the S.C. House, out near the street, is a statue and directly behind the statue is a very old flagpole with a confederate flag. Looking straight on, you cannot see that flag or the pole. The obscure placement seems to imply historic representation only, and any half mast observance would be done up on the dome."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2015 21:25:21 GMT
This is a comment I saw when I googled about flying flags at half mast. "The flag pole on the dome has an American flag on top and the proper state flag under it. In front of the S.C. House, out near the street, is a statue and directly behind the statue is a very old flagpole with a confederate flag. Looking straight on, you cannot see that flag or the pole. The obscure placement seems to imply historic representation only, and any half mast observance would be done up on the dome." It seems to me that *all* flags should be at half mast if there is a call for flags to be at half mast. Maybe that's not actual flag etiquette, but especially in this situation, the optics are TERRIBLE that a Confederate flag, of all flags, is left flying high. Take Down the Confederate Flag - Now by Ta-Nehisi Coates for The Atlantic
Very much worth the read as well.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2015 21:48:16 GMT
I agree, you can scream "illegal guns! illegal guns!" all you want, but the fact of the matter is that these types of tragedies have been happening with people who have obtained guns LEGALLY. We can't throw our hands up altogether just because we haven't found a solution to the illegal guns. As horrific as the shooting was in SC, and as the CO movie theatre shooting and Sandy Hook, the fact is, the number of lives lost from these types of massive shootings still pale in comparison to the number of lives lost at the hands of criminals with illegal guns each and every day in this country.
It makes sense (IMO) to work with the largest numbers first...fight and make changes to where the most impact will be made and the most lives will be saved.
I'm not saying that I think we should ignore what happened in Charleston, Aurora or Sandy Hook. But IMO, these mass killings are not the cause of all of the gun violence and killings that happen on our streets each and every day from illegal guns.
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Post by beebee on Jun 18, 2015 21:54:58 GMT
This shooting is just horrific. It is hard for me to understand how any kid can have so much evil and hate. I am just so sad and heartbroken for the victims and the families.
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Post by Patter on Jun 18, 2015 22:35:24 GMT
Just found out that one of the victims was an admissions counselor at my girls university. She was on the Charleston campus. So sad for all of the lives lost!
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Post by foolana on Jun 18, 2015 22:37:55 GMT
Why are you so preoccupied by Chicago, @gajenny? You do know that gun crimes happen in the all the other cities and states in the country, right? Is it because Obama is from Chicago? Do you hold him responsible for the crime there?
My opinion: Easy access to guns, legal and illegal are to blame. Add murderous jacka$$e$ to gun ownership and you have a lethal combination. If America didn't change the gun laws after 20-something 6 and 7 year olds were murdered in their classrooms then we should get used to horrific killings like this one in Charleston happening more and more often.
As always, JMHO.
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Post by foolana on Jun 18, 2015 22:48:41 GMT
I have been searching for info supporting what you posted and I can't find anything. Also, what constitutes mass killings? More than 1 death, more than 5 deaths? I found this link that can't differentiate between killings with legal guns vs illegal guns:
FBI Statistics: Guns Used in Crimes
ETA: Info is at the bottom of the first page
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Post by foolana on Jun 18, 2015 22:50:52 GMT
Yup not a thug. Just mentally ill. Amazing isn't it? My impression that the word "thug" was used in a totally different situation involving the police. This kid is a downright murderer and there's no way that I would call that any better than a thug. Totally off topic but I love your avatar! So cool!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2015 22:51:31 GMT
Why do I focus on Chicago? "Shootings in Chicago exceed those in the nation's two larger cities this year even though New York and Los Angeles are each seeing an uptick in violence over the last two years. Through the end of May, 510 people had been shot in New York City — a city more than three times the size of Chicago — compared with 467 during the year-earlier period, a 9 percent increase, according to New York Police Department statistics. In L.A., a city with over a million more people than Chicago, 438 people had been shot as of May 30, a 21 percent increase during the year-earlier period when there were 362, Los Angeles Police Department statistics show." www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-chicago-one-thousand-shootings-met-20150608-story.html
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2015 22:58:07 GMT
I have been searching for info supporting what you posted and I can't find anything. Also, what constitutes mass killings? More than 1 death, more than 5 deaths? I found this link that can't differentiate between killings with legal guns vs illegal guns:
FBI Statistics: Guns Used in Crimes
ETA: Info is at the bottom of the first page Once again. Math.
WEEK IN REVIEW: 13 people killed in Chicago violence
Posted June 15, 2015, 12:04 p.m. by Jeff Mayes | One Comment
By TRISTAN SIMS and JARED LANDSMAN Homicide Watch Chicago
At least 13 people were killed by violence throughout Chicago last week, eleven of them fatally shot.
homicides.suntimes.com/
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Post by foolana on Jun 18, 2015 22:59:45 GMT
Since January 1, 2015 1,119 people in Chicago have been shot. That is more than 6 people a day in the Chicago metro area alone. I think we'd be better off focusing on the very real issue of illegal guns and the damage those cause before trying to legislate any additional changes to our gun laws. After all, if Chicago has some of the toughest gun laws in the nation, it sure seems to me that toughening gun laws aren't doing shit for the city of Chicago.
I'm for extensive background checks in order to legally own a gun. I would even consider the thought of penalizing the father in this case for providing his son, who if for no other reason had a drug problem, possibly a mental health issue, and an arrest record...someone who clearly should not have had a gun.
Making it more and more difficult for law abiding individuals that want to own a firearm does nothing in regards to the problem of guns in the hands of people that shouldn't have them. See Chicago numbers above. (for the record, I do not own a gun, do not want a gun, and at this time, don't ever see myself wanting a gun...so I'm not some crazy gun rights person)
crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/shootings/
yep. and how many times has DBO flapped his lips about it the day after 1 of those shootings? I haven't heard any. yet right away this a.m. there he was... using it for political gain - gun control. but he doesn't want to draw attention to Chicago where Rahm is mayor and where it's blacks shooting blacks.
Why oh why do I un-ignore you to see what you say? You are so predictable and ridiculous.
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