Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 28, 2024 21:00:29 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2016 23:42:02 GMT
He isn't coming over. He texted an hour ago saying they went into town and won't be back until late.
I'm sorta done right now......
|
|
|
Post by leftturnonly on Apr 3, 2016 23:49:08 GMT
This above is overstepping - you shouldn't be telling his potential HR manager that kind of personal information about him, Your probably right. I'm the Director of Finance so the Director of HR knows everything about him already. Our Admin team has walked this path with us for the past year. She adores him but she always knows his faults and weaknesses. Of course you would think of him when a new job opens up. That seems natural enough. Now that you've had a chance to take a breath, think about what that would be like for him. He would be working with his mother's friends who know everything about him before he ever steps in the door. (Doesn't matter if you're friends or acquaintances. To him, you will be the best of friends.) That changes everything about a job. It just does. He's already fighting to have any sense of himself apart from his family and his girlfriend. I think he'd lose some of that if he went to work with you. That's a big loss for him. How do you think he'd react? I would expect his behavior to become worse just because. That's entirely apart from him getting a new old car. If he comes up with the transportation and the real push to get the job, then he might actually be ready to work with his mother. Otherwise, you gave it a good go. You can move on knowing you told him about something he *might* be interested in.
|
|
luckyexwife
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,069
Jun 25, 2014 21:21:08 GMT
|
Post by luckyexwife on Apr 3, 2016 23:54:32 GMT
He isn't coming over. He texted an hour ago saying they went into town and won't be back until late. I'm sorta done right now...... ((Hugs)) I'm so sorry for what you are going through.
|
|
|
Post by leftturnonly on Apr 3, 2016 23:54:58 GMT
Please let me know if I am remembering your story correctly - you adopted your son our of foster care when he was older? Am I remembering correctly? If yes, I think you should speak with somebody who specializes in adoption/attachment issues, and then based on their advice address the issue with him. Although he is 20 his background does make this situation different than if he was your average 20-year-old and therefore the approach needs to be a bit different as well. Yes - he is adopted from foster care, yes he does have attachment issues. We spent 2 years of intensive therapy when I first adopted him. At 7 he had PTSD from the abuse he suffered in his birth home. He went back into therapy when he was 14 for again 2 years, I agree. She sounds controlling to an abusive level. Men can be abused too. Any chance he would be willing to call a spousal abuse hotline? Or to read books about it? I'm sorry he's going through this. (and you). Thank you for pointing this out because that was what I vocalized to my husband last night. I work for a family crisis center. We have a DV shelter and we occasionally get men there. We have a DV support group for men and right now we have 15 to come on a regular basis. It is a real concern for us because of what we are seeing. I'm actually going to go by the shelter tomorrow and talk to the therapist that works there. At this point, having him for for our agency is off the table. We have bigger concerns and that is his well being. DH sent him a text last night asking him to come help him fix something on the truck today. DS said he would have to check with GF - I was ticked! In the end DS is coming over in about an hour. They are going to work on the truck but DH is going to try to talk to him. We will see how it goes. Oh my! I didn't know he had such a troubled background. That makes him more like 18 then, doesn't it. Poor kid. He probably feels pretty stuck, but hates confrontation and hates change even more.
|
|
|
Post by Chips on Apr 3, 2016 23:56:25 GMT
He isn't coming over. He texted an hour ago saying they went into town and won't be back until late. I'm sorta done right now...... ((((Hugs)))) and so sorry!
|
|
|
Post by elaine on Apr 3, 2016 23:57:17 GMT
He isn't coming over. He texted an hour ago saying they went into town and won't be back until late. I'm sorta done right now...... I'm sorry. (((Hugs)))
|
|
|
Post by christine58 on Apr 4, 2016 0:03:49 GMT
He isn't coming over. He texted an hour ago saying they went into town and won't be back until late. I'm sorta done right now...... Just continue to be there for him as you have....hopefully he will come around.
|
|
|
Post by bostonmama on Apr 4, 2016 0:19:59 GMT
He isn't coming over. He texted an hour ago saying they went into town and won't be back until late. I'm sorta done right now...... I'm so sorry, Mom. She is just too much. I'm sure the trip to town was quite strategic.
|
|
|
Post by brina on Apr 4, 2016 0:20:58 GMT
I am so sorry that you are continuing to go through this. His girl friend sounds so much like my brother's wife. I won't get into details because she has found me online and gone after me in the past, but she drove wedges between my brother and his family and his friends for years and then when he died reached out to all of us only to push us all away again after a few weeks/months. Shen then tells my friends that I need to learn to put things behind me and have a relationship with her going forward. Unfortunately my brother never walked away from her. I wish you the best, but have no real answers.
|
|
|
Post by melanell on Apr 4, 2016 1:05:13 GMT
I have a DD the same age and have been following your story. I would step in if she were being controlled this way by a man. Especially after seeing her start to question her situation herself. Why would she not want your son to have a better paying job, car and future that would benefit her, as well? Good luck and big hugs! I think the big difference here is that there is a history of estrangement between the OP and her son. He chose the GF before and is likely to do that again. They are still rebuilding their relationship and it is still rocky. If the OP forces the issue, it could very easily end up in another estrangement, which will not give her son the "safe place to land" that he needs when he is ready to leave. I think being quietly supportive is a better idea. They have already told him what they think about his GF and her behavior. That's enough for now. I think this could be approached differently if the parent-child relationship were on more solid ground, but right now, I think the OP need to tread very carefully. This is what was in the back of my mind when I answered. It had nothing at all to do with whether the OP had a son or daughter. for me, ti was about not being sure how strong or how fragile the ties between parent & child are right now, and being cautious as not to fray or break those ties. I felt that if the lines of communication between them are indeed strained right now, I might lean more towards keeping a quiet eye on things and preserving the lines rather than stepping in and possibly seeing the lines severed again. But I felt that OP knows the situation better than any of us in that regard which is why I felt she was the best to decide about any conversations about the GF's behavior.
|
|
|
Post by melanell on Apr 4, 2016 1:08:05 GMT
He isn't coming over. He texted an hour ago saying they went into town and won't be back until late. I'm sorta done right now...... Hugs!
|
|
|
Post by epeanymous on Apr 4, 2016 1:24:26 GMT
I am sorry you are dealing with this. I've read a lot of your back posts and agree with others that your best strategy is to be open, available, loving, in touch, etc., but to avoid either becoming financially entangled or trying to get involved in his personal life. If he knows he can come to you, he can do that. If he knows he can move to your house, he can do that. If he knows he can count on you if financially he ends up in dire straights, he will do that.
I know it is hard to watch this. I will say, I have some relatives who have insisted on doing the come-to-Jesus talks, financial subsidies, etc. with their adult offspring, and what they seem to have bought themselves is a literal lifetime of it. I have two relatives who are in their late 30s who are *still* having their parents swoop in to try to fix their problems, and I'm not sure they wouldn't have been far better off if their parents hadn't been swooping in to fix their problems fifteen or twenty years ago.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 28, 2024 21:00:29 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2016 1:48:54 GMT
At this point, having him for for our agency is off the table. We have bigger concerns and that is his well being. DH sent him a text last night asking him to come help him fix something on the truck today. DS said he would have to check with GF - I was ticked! In the end DS is coming over in about an hour. They are going to work on the truck but DH is going to try to talk to him. We will see how it goes. I really think this is a lot of your problem in that your role in his life is being replaced by someone else You seem to be struggling with him being a 20 year old with independent decisions to be made which may now mean you are prioritized second I'm sure if you had any requests from your parents you would somehow check in with your spouse about it and if something came up with your husband, he would be your priority first over going to help your mom/dad fix something You don't seem to be allowing your son this same grown up relationship at all It just seems you are very focused on your son being abused. Maybe he is, maybe you aren't telling the full story. Who knows, but in a lot of your wording it appears you are a large part of the problem in how you perceive him
|
|
|
Post by papercrafteradvocate on Apr 4, 2016 4:01:40 GMT
He isn't coming over. He texted an hour ago saying they went into town and won't be back until late. I'm sorta done right now...... I'm sorry that she has that much power over him.
|
|
|
Post by gmcwife1 on Apr 4, 2016 5:32:36 GMT
I am sorry you are dealing with this. I've read a lot of your back posts and agree with others that your best strategy is to be open, available, loving, in touch, etc., but to avoid either becoming financially entangled or trying to get involved in his personal life. If he knows he can come to you, he can do that. If he knows he can move to your house, he can do that. If he knows he can count on you if financially he ends up in dire straights, he will do that. I know it is hard to watch this. I will say, I have some relatives who have insisted on doing the come-to-Jesus talks, financial subsidies, etc. with their adult offspring, and what they seem to have bought themselves is a literal lifetime of it. I have two relatives who are in their late 30s who are *still* having their parents swoop in to try to fix their problems, and I'm not sure they wouldn't have been far better off if their parents hadn't been swooping in to fix their problems fifteen or twenty years ago. I agree with this. I have a sister that was enabled by our mother and she is now 50 yrs old, working at WalMart as a cashier and living with our dad. She has nothing to show for herself as she job jumps and sits on unemployment as long as she can. It feels like you are struggling to let go. It's hard when our kids aren't making the choices we want them to make, but we still need to let them make their choices. Not our choices. Don't try to get him a job at your place of work, though I agree he probably isn't really in the running. It feels like it would be best for both of you if you can be there for him but let him come to you. It feels like you are struggling to let go for various reasons. I have a 26 yr old the moved out before she was 18. She dropped out of high school and couch surfed for years just doing nothing. By the time she was 24 she'd had almost as many jobs as I'd had even being a Navy wife. She is now 26 and has really found herself. She has been at her job for over a year. She likes her job and she is no longer running from her responsibilities. It took her a while to get it together but we let her find herself and her own way.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 28, 2024 21:00:29 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2016 8:07:23 GMT
You really need to get him alone and just gently point out a few things like we did.
We never really said anything bad about son's girlfriend, but just pointed out that she never seem to want to improve. She didn't support him to get a good job. She didn't support him to go to college.
She didn't do anything. She didn't want to go school. She didn't want a job. ( oh yes double standard, but one of them had to money coming in. And I did lawn care for the first five years of marriage with a baby strapped to my back) She didn't even want to get a driver's license. Then she started wanting him to be her personal driver. She didn't break with her church, when she kept saying she would. She wanted to have sex. He kept telling her he wasn't ready to be a father. She would not go on the pill.
Then we told him he could go sailing all summer! Goodbye to girlfriend.
|
|
teddyw
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,052
Jun 29, 2014 1:56:04 GMT
|
Post by teddyw on Apr 4, 2016 12:41:29 GMT
I'm sorry this is ongoing for you. Others here have given you good ideas so I won't add on.
Hopefully she'll meet someone else and move on.
|
|
|
Post by mom on Apr 4, 2016 13:08:24 GMT
It sounds as though you want to fix things for him, but that's really the biggest mistake we make as parents, no matter the age of our kids. Could it be possible that you don't get the whole story from him because of your overbearing instinct to control? Maybe he hems and haws and is noncommittal not because she won't let him do what he wants, but because he doesn't want the judgment from you. Maybe he doesn't want to work with you but lacks the ability to say that, because then he would hear how it's perfect for him and pays more and is something he seemed interested in before. So when gf pipes up that they can't afford a car, he lets that sit. I don't think you can trust much of what he tells you as genuine right now. You are being very judgmental on one side, gf is being controlling on the other (though that's your judgment, maybe not reality). I would back WAY off. Stop judging their choices and wanting his life to be different than what it is right now. He can feel your disappointment, you can be sure of that. You said you're "sorta done" now because he won't come over. I think that is an overreaction, and it's just what I mean. You are emotionally manipulating him by getting ticked and done and whatever when he doesn't want to come over. He's allowed to not want to come over, isn't he? He might even be making up the story about town to avoid what he knows is waiting for him at your house. Honestly, I do think you should take a hard, clear look at how you are creating a relationship with him based on valuing him according to when his decisions align with yours. You feel like he can't make a good decision without gf controlling him, and yet you are doing the same level of controlling his choices. Why do you believe he is incapable of making his own choices? Why do you think every "bad" choice he makes comes from her and not him? You are correct that he needs to stand up for himself, but it first needs to be standing up to you or he won't learn to stand up to others. very well said and I agee 100%
|
|
|
Post by trixiecat on Apr 4, 2016 13:30:40 GMT
As hard as it is, I think you need to embrace the relationship you have with him, as well as the relationship between the girlfriend and him. Him wanting to change the situation has to come from within himself, whether it be to get a better job or whether he wants to stay with or leave the girlfriend. He made the grown-up decision to move in with his girlfriend and he needs to be treated as an adult. On the same hand, every chance you get with him alone I would reiterate to him that you love him, if he ever needs to talk you are there for him with no judgement allowed, etc. I also might remind him that a relationship is supposed to be an equal partnership when it comes to decision making. If one partner doesn't agree fully on a way to spend money, then they work it out. That is what partners do. I would also make it a point to say you are happy that he has found someone that makes him happy. It doesn't hurt to show that you are accepting of his girlfriend. Support him and love him and let him know you are there always for him. Maybe the day will come that he will open up to your husband or yourself and be honest about everything. Maybe he will say, "Hey, I love this girl, but she controls our money". Then that shows he is opening the door and allowing you in to give your advice. It doesn't sound like he has done that so far.
|
|
TheOtherMeg
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,541
Jun 25, 2014 20:58:14 GMT
|
Post by TheOtherMeg on Apr 4, 2016 13:47:21 GMT
I wouldn't be consigning a loan for him. He does not appear to be mature enough to figure out a way to make the payments. As far as all this drama, I would try my very best to bite my tongue and say nothing. This. However, I do think it's not unreasonable to ask that he occasionally come visit you, or you visit him somewhere, without the (very controlling) girlfriend present. ETA And I know I'd fail at biting my tongue, but I would be careful not to trashtalk the GF. There are ways to frame comments so that they're pointing out your concerns for him and his current happiness and future happiness/goals, and not about the GF and her actions and impact on his life/happiness/future.
|
|
|
Post by mom on Apr 4, 2016 13:57:20 GMT
Ive been thinking about why GF would say no to the car....maybe they are needing to get out of debt, want to save money, etc, etc.
The fact she says no doesn't mean she is controlling. Perhaps they sat down earlier and decided that they had other items are priorities. Bravo for them, if they did that. Taking on debt at a early age is never a good idea (for most 20 year olds).
My point is, I think its easy to say she is controlling the money, but just maybe your son and GH have a plan that you aren't privy to (and shouldn't be privy to, unless they want to tell you.
|
|
|
Post by jennyap on Apr 4, 2016 13:59:34 GMT
It sounds as though you want to fix things for him, but that's really the biggest mistake we make as parents, no matter the age of our kids. Could it be possible that you don't get the whole story from him because of your overbearing instinct to control? Maybe he hems and haws and is noncommittal not because she won't let him do what he wants, but because he doesn't want the judgment from you. Maybe he doesn't want to work with you but lacks the ability to say that, because then he would hear how it's perfect for him and pays more and is something he seemed interested in before. So when gf pipes up that they can't afford a car, he lets that sit. I don't think you can trust much of what he tells you as genuine right now. You are being very judgmental on one side, gf is being controlling on the other (though that's your judgment, maybe not reality). I would back WAY off. Stop judging their choices and wanting his life to be different than what it is right now. He can feel your disappointment, you can be sure of that. You said you're "sorta done" now because he won't come over. I think that is an overreaction, and it's just what I mean. You are emotionally manipulating him by getting ticked and done and whatever when he doesn't want to come over. He's allowed to not want to come over, isn't he? He might even be making up the story about town to avoid what he knows is waiting for him at your house. Honestly, I do think you should take a hard, clear look at how you are creating a relationship with him based on valuing him according to when his decisions align with yours. You feel like he can't make a good decision without gf controlling him, and yet you are doing the same level of controlling his choices. Why do you believe he is incapable of making his own choices? Why do you think every "bad" choice he makes comes from her and not him? You are correct that he needs to stand up for himself, but it first needs to be standing up to you or he won't learn to stand up to others. I've got to agree with this. Even if your interpretation is correct and she is controlling him to an unhealthy degree, then the best thing you and your DH can do IMO is model contrasting behaviour. As hard as it may be, don't try to control him, don't make demands on him or show that you are disappointed or upset when he doesn't choose what you would. Don't try to interfere in their relationship or manipulate him to break up with her. As others have said, if he is going to break up with this girl or stand up to her that needs to be his choice. The easiest way to show him that it is a bad situation so that he makes that choice is to be the opposite thing in every way. ((Hugs))
|
|
Peamac
Pearl Clutcher
Refupea # 418
Posts: 4,229
Jun 26, 2014 0:09:18 GMT
|
Post by Peamac on Apr 4, 2016 14:05:06 GMT
Is there someone else he is close to that could mention the domestic violence and other concerns you have? An uncle, grandparent, close family friend? Maybe hearing it from someone other than his parents would help. It sounds like he needs therapy or someone professional to talk to- even though he's 20yo, his past (bio family, abuse, etc) is affecting him and it looks a little different this time because he's at a different stage of life.
|
|
|
Post by nurseypants on Apr 4, 2016 14:12:30 GMT
I think the jump I am seeing here from girlfriend is controlling to son is victim of DV is a pretty big one.
I like to control things, and I am pretty bossy. In fact I have to really watch myself sometimes. But my partner is not a victim of DV. Making this leap in thinking is kind of silly.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 28, 2024 21:00:29 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2016 14:34:44 GMT
I think the jump I am seeing here from girlfriend is controlling to son is victim of DV is a pretty big one. I like to control things, and I am pretty bossy. In fact I have to really watch myself sometimes. But my partner is not a victim of DV. Making this leap in thinking is kind of silly. While I would agree with you for almost anyone else, given this child's history with abuse, I think that the jump is more of a tiny step. It would take very little to push him back onto the victim side of the line - much less than anyone who doesn't have such a significant history of abuse as a child. I don't think the definition of DV is a static one.
|
|
|
Post by crazy4scraps on Apr 4, 2016 14:50:31 GMT
I think the jump I am seeing here from girlfriend is controlling to son is victim of DV is a pretty big one. I like to control things, and I am pretty bossy. In fact I have to really watch myself sometimes. But my partner is not a victim of DV. Making this leap in thinking is kind of silly. I don't know. I agree that there is a difference between someone who is just bossy vs. someone who is potentially abusive. The red flag that many are seeing in this instance is that the girlfriend seems to be doing what she can to prevent her guy from seeing or being around his family without her there. That is a classic early sign of domestic abuse, to separate the person from their safety net so they feel the abuser is the only one they have to turn to. That would worry me. My BIL did that with my sister not only with our family, but also with his extended family and he ran off all of her friends too. Now she's 35+ years in and completely brainwashed into thinking she's nothing without him. She's been totally beaten down emotionally and feels she has no resources of her own and nowhere to go if she left him. We tried to help her years ago and she just will not leave. The worst part is that their girls have made bad choices with the partners they have picked and their son is turning out to be an abusive thug too.
|
|
|
Post by gmcwife1 on Apr 4, 2016 15:53:07 GMT
I wouldn't be consigning a loan for him. He does not appear to be mature enough to figure out a way to make the payments. As far as all this drama, I would try my very best to bite my tongue and say nothing. This. However, I do think it's not unreasonable to ask that he occasionally come visit you, or you visit him somewhere, without the (very controlling) girlfriend present. ETA And I know I'd fail at biting my tongue, but I would be careful not to trashtalk the GF. There are ways to frame comments so that they're pointing out your concerns for him and his current happiness and future happiness/goals, and not about the GF and her actions and impact on his life/happiness/future.This is VERY important. My ds has been with someone for 8 yrs that the family doesn't really care for. He has no idea that we don't care for her. Like I tell family, as long as he is happy that is what matters. That we like her, that we like the choices she makes, etc. doesn't matter. What matters is my ds's happiness and he is happy with her baggage, bad choices and all.
|
|
|
Post by ilikepink on Apr 4, 2016 17:06:49 GMT
It's harder to parent young adults than toddlers! There are two things we need to give our children - roots and wings. It sounds like his roots were very, very difficult so it makes sense the wings would be difficult also.
We have to let them make their own mistakes. As hard as it is to stand by and watch the train about to wreck, that's what you have to do. He's obvious that he's susceptible to being controlled (mom, please take some ownership of that), and the GF is doing just what he/she wants. All you can really do is be open to them, and to him for one-on-one time, be patient and wait. As one other pea said, this may a good conversation for dad to have. He still has a lot of learning to do - just hope he learns a whole bunch of lessons with this GF.
Hugs.
|
|
|
Post by shevy on Apr 4, 2016 18:04:25 GMT
I think the jump I am seeing here from girlfriend is controlling to son is victim of DV is a pretty big one. I like to control things, and I am pretty bossy. In fact I have to really watch myself sometimes. But my partner is not a victim of DV. Making this leap in thinking is kind of silly. While I would agree with you for almost anyone else, given this child's history with abuse, I think that the jump is more of a tiny step. It would take very little to push him back onto the victim side of the line - much less than anyone who doesn't have such a significant history of abuse as a child. I don't think the definition of DV is a static one. You are correct, the definition of DV isn't static. A perpetrator may have some static issues, but certainly some issues that change, given the set of circumstances. A victim of abuse. if not actively using the tools they learned in counseling and at an unsure place in life, will easily slide right back into that victim role because it's easy.
needmysanity I can hear it in your posts. You love him and want to protect him. But I agree that you're going to have to be his safe place to fall. However, should it continue to become abusive/manipulative, consider changing your role for his safety.
|
|
|
Post by Spongemom Scrappants on Apr 4, 2016 18:37:18 GMT
So much has been said and I'm sure none of it is easy to read. I'm just here to give you a virtual hug and recognize how incredibly awful this is for you. As much as I agree with all the necessary "kick in the ass" advice given above, I know it's advice easier given than carried out. Wishing you strength and grace in spades. You can do this. What a gracious post. I'm sitting next to Julee. You've received plenty of feedback and advice. I'm just sending support.
|
|