scrappinmama
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,015
Jun 26, 2014 12:54:09 GMT
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Post by scrappinmama on Apr 4, 2016 18:42:57 GMT
I remember following your troubles with your son last year, op. What a stressful situation for everyone. You have received some really good advice on this thread. While I think a "come to Jesus" conversation can be effective, it has to be one that you are fully prepared to follow through, and that you know the pressure on the child will push them to make changes. For example, an adult child that refuses to get a job can be given a deadline to get one or more out. Then you need to stick to your guns on that deadline. In this case, I'm not sure a come to Jesus moment will work. What will you say? Get a full time job or get out isn't going to work. He's already out of your home, and he has proven that he will cut ties with you.
You really need to think carefully about this. In this case, you might need to just sit back and watch him learn the hard way. Be there for him if this relationship doesn't work out. Know that the more you push, the deeper her grip will be on your son.
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J u l e e
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,531
Location: Cincinnati
Jun 28, 2014 2:50:47 GMT
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Post by J u l e e on Apr 4, 2016 19:04:50 GMT
So much has been said and I'm sure none of it is easy to read. I'm just here to give you a virtual hug and recognize how incredibly awful this is for you. As much as I agree with all the necessary "kick in the ass" advice given above, I know it's advice easier given than carried out. Wishing you strength and grace in spades. You can do this. What a gracious post. I'm sitting next to Julee. You've received plenty of feedback and advice. I'm just sending support. Thank you! As I reread this, I feel the word necessary shouldn't be there. It reads like I think you needed a kick in the ass. I meant more along the lines of many posts written like they were a kick in the ass. And I agree with a lot that was written but not like we were kicking you in the ass. Anyway, I hope you take it the way I meant it. ((hugs))
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Post by twinks on Apr 4, 2016 21:12:58 GMT
I was an adult making good decisions/choices for most of my adult life. I was totally self supporting. I then got married, to someone that I loved and pictured living the rest of my life with. However, he wasn't all that he made himself out to be. I think that in relationships, when times get tough, you turn to what you know. I found myself in an abusive relationship. My family knew, as I had to have some assistance a couple of times when I needed to seek medical care. The one thing that I remember the most and admire my mother the most is - she was always there! She listened, she helped out when I asked for help and she never, never bad mouthed my spouse. (Well, as long as I was married to him.) She was also very non-judgmental of me. She never past judgment on my decisions - whether right or wrong.
What my Mom became was my "safe" person - never really offering advise or her thoughts about my situation. What she did say was that "if I ever decided that I needed out, that I couldn't handle things anymore, I had a place to live and all the support that I would need." I am positive that it was extremely hard for my mother to stand back and watch her daughter emotionally and physically abused. I will always remember her coming to pick me up and I had a broken nose, blood all over my white maternity shirt, broken glasses, a cut lip and a swollen eye. She just looked at me and remarked she was "glad I called" and drove me to the doctor's office.
Behind the scenes, my mother was keeping a log. She wrote down the times I called and what had happened. She kept track of the times she or my sister took me for medical care (she didn't know all of them). She had the times she invited us and we cancelled. She wrote down the facts - no emotion - only the facts. She then sought legal council on my behalf (without my knowledge) and had a good attorney on retainer. She had rallied the troops behind my back. No one in my family talked about my situation to anyone outside the family unless (like the attorney and a therapist) they needed to. She increased her invitations, but, was not over the top. She was always understanding when I cancelled.
Those things, even the ones that I didn't know about, meant the world to me when I finally decided to leave. My mother had even purchased a crib and baby equipment under the "I need these things at my home to make it easier for when you visit" excuse. She had been purchasing things for me as well. The moment I said to my Mom, "I can't go back. I can't handle this any longer" my Mom clarified and then called the attorney. It was amazing because within a couple of hours, my entire family, along with a Church official, and my attorney were sitting in my Mom's living room. When I was ready, I was able to apply and get a job working for my sister's friend. No one knew my story until afterwards. When there were problems with him stalking me and it was apparent my safety was at risk, my family was able to ask/tell people to protect me. I had a therapist, paid for by my family, for as long as I wanted/needed him.
I guess my point is, you need to be supportive, non-judgmental of both DS and his GF. Share the story with your DS carefully. You never know when you might need someone to employee your DS. But, you don't need to sit idle. You can decide how you and your DH are going to handle things when DS decides he has had enough. You can put things in place. Instead of giving him $ now for her Disney trips and Justin Bieber tickets, put that into a savings account. Trust me, he is going to need it. You can make decisions and control your actions. Do not attempt to control their/his decisions.
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momto4kiddos
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,153
Jun 26, 2014 11:45:15 GMT
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Post by momto4kiddos on Apr 4, 2016 21:25:04 GMT
I know how difficult it is to not be on great terms with your kid and I know you are very concerned about him. My situation was different, but I do know the heartbreak. With that said, I think you need to let him live the life he's chosen to live. He's choosing to let the girlfriend call the shots, he's choosing the job, the car situation, etc. I think you should stop offering him help and let him figure things out. You've offered co-signing loans, wedding money, etc., - stop offering. The best way for him to figure things out is to have to figure things out himself. Relying on girlfriend for car will get old, which may just make him realize he needs to make a few decisions for himself.
My ds was out on his own at a friends house (friend was a big factor in the issues) and I bit my tongue a lot. I was also smart about inviting ds to things when I knew the friend was in school and ds was hanging around by himself. And when we did something together I bit my tongue more if need be. I always treated him to meals if we went out, but I didn't offer more. And some days my heart just broke - like when he left after the Christmas holidays. But I think he's a much better person for it today. And our relationship is much improved now. I hate what we went through, but I think we needed to go there to get here.
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Post by jenjie on Apr 4, 2016 21:41:11 GMT
twinks it is very kind and compassionate for you to make yourself vulnerable and share your personal story. Your mom is a very wise woman. And I'm so glad you got out.
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Post by gmcwife1 on Apr 4, 2016 22:00:17 GMT
twinks it is very kind and compassionate for you to make yourself vulnerable and share your personal story. Your mom is a very wise woman. And I'm so glad you got out. I agree. twinks your mom was/is a very wise woman and has raised someone that is also very wise and compassionate.
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Post by hop2 on Apr 4, 2016 22:31:43 GMT
I think the jump I am seeing here from girlfriend is controlling to son is victim of DV is a pretty big one. I like to control things, and I am pretty bossy. In fact I have to really watch myself sometimes. But my partner is not a victim of DV. Making this leap in thinking is kind of silly. I don't know. I agree that there is a difference between someone who is just bossy vs. someone who is potentially abusive. The red flag that many are seeing in this instance is that the girlfriend seems to be doing what she can to prevent her guy from seeing or being around his family without her there. That is a classic early sign of domestic abuse, to separate the person from their safety net so they feel the abuser is the only one they have to turn to. That would worry me. My BIL did that with my sister not only with our family, but also with his extended family and he ran off all of her friends too. Now she's 35+ years in and completely brainwashed into thinking she's nothing without him. She's been totally beaten down emotionally and feels she has no resources of her own and nowhere to go if she left him. We tried to help her years ago and she just will not leave. The worst part is that their girls have made bad choices with the partners they have picked and their son is turning out to be an abusive thug too. I was your SIL. The isolation is a huge part of destroying someone's self esteem and keeping them down. I'd never have taken the baby steps one at a time to rebuild myself if I had allowed myself to remain isolated. Though I agree with others that, it could go either way, I mean he could use her as an excuse not to go, or maybe she really is that controlling. We aren't really going to know from here
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bethany102399
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,619
Oct 11, 2014 3:17:29 GMT
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Post by bethany102399 on Apr 5, 2016 17:44:43 GMT
twinks Please give your mom a hug from me. May I have the grace to be that pulled together while my child is hurting. and Hugs to you for getting out and staying safe.
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Post by not2peased on Apr 5, 2016 22:12:40 GMT
I think you have gotten some good advice about letting him handle his own life. you told him what you thought and he is going to do whatever it is he feels he has to do. anytime you tell him what to do, or she FEELS like you are telling him what to do, she is going to squash it, or put her own spin on it. for example, when you brought up the job and asked him if he was going to apply, just say, let me know if there is anything I can do to help, or "let me know if you need some help working out the logistics of the job/commute" and then just leave it at that. Do not tell him what he "has" to do. you offered your help and advice if he needs it and then wait for him to come to you. if he doesn't, then you need to let it go, and let the chips fall where they may. as hard as that is to do, you can't expect him to stand up for himself when it;s either you or his GF directing and controlling his decisions and behavior.you would be guilty of doing the exact same thing you are accusing the GF of doing.
I think part of the joy this girlfriend gets is showing you how she "owns" him now. you are playing right into her manipulative hands. don't present her with opportunities to rub her control in your face-when robbed of her ability to rub your noses in how much of a puppet master she is, she will likely back off somewhat. of course, someone who is controlling and manipulative isn't going to just give up, but as long as she knows it bothers you, you are playing right into her hands.
also, if you are thinking you are having an "offline" conversation with him when she isn't around-I wouldn't bet on it. Everything you talk to him about is likely being reported, verbatim to the GF. Keep that in mind in your communications.
<edited to add> you can also help him LEARN how to be more assertive by bolstering his confidence in his own decision making. make it a point to say, "I know you are intelligent and capable, and also confident enough to seek advice when you need it. No one expects you to know everything, and while you are too old for me to tell you what to do, you are old enough to know that advice from people who care about you, and have been there/done that can be valuable"
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bethany102399
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,619
Oct 11, 2014 3:17:29 GMT
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Post by bethany102399 on Apr 6, 2016 14:46:14 GMT
"I know you are intelligent and capable, and also confident enough to seek advice when you need it. No one expects you to know everything, and while you are too old for me to tell you what to do, you are old enough to know that advice from people who care about you, and have been there/done that can be valuable" LOVE this. I've been pondering on this as I totally get the "mom is telling me what to do" part of the equation, though none of the larger burden you both carry. From the point of view of the adult child listening to her mother tell her how poorly I'm raising my kids, poorly keeping my house, not to mention how I married wrong I can tell you at a certain point you just tune it all out. She's coming over today as we have access to the new house for the inspection, and I'm more nervous about how she's going to rip the house to shreds than the inspection itself! She has really made an effort especially as we have worked the steps to make this house a reality, to say how proud she is of me and how she sees that we've really worked hard to make this dream work. It's very difficult for me to receive and hold onto that sentiment. Too many years of you've screwed up. That's coming from a place with a normal, happy childhood. I can't begin to imagine the "armor" he's got in place against anyone telling him what to do. I agree with the others, he's shown you he's willing to walk away if you push too hard, be very very careful. That being said, I would also agree that this could escalate into an abusive situation, emotional at least if it's not already there. Maybe he'd be more willing to work with a counselor or therapist to see the path he's on rather than mom and dad. I pray for all of you, that you can find the grace to be what he needs you to be, and that he can see his way to a better situation.
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Post by whopea on Apr 6, 2016 17:55:54 GMT
I was an adult making good decisions/choices for most of my adult life. I was totally self supporting. I then got married, to someone that I loved and pictured living the rest of my life with. However, he wasn't all that he made himself out to be. I think that in relationships, when times get tough, you turn to what you know. I found myself in an abusive relationship. My family knew, as I had to have some assistance a couple of times when I needed to seek medical care. The one thing that I remember the most and admire my mother the most is - she was always there! She listened, she helped out when I asked for help and she never, never bad mouthed my spouse. (Well, as long as I was married to him.) She was also very non-judgmental of me. She never past judgment on my decisions - whether right or wrong. What my Mom became was my "safe" person - never really offering advise or her thoughts about my situation. What she did say was that "if I ever decided that I needed out, that I couldn't handle things anymore, I had a place to live and all the support that I would need." I am positive that it was extremely hard for my mother to stand back and watch her daughter emotionally and physically abused. I will always remember her coming to pick me up and I had a broken nose, blood all over my white maternity shirt, broken glasses, a cut lip and a swollen eye. She just looked at me and remarked she was "glad I called" and drove me to the doctor's office. Behind the scenes, my mother was keeping a log. She wrote down the times I called and what had happened. She kept track of the times she or my sister took me for medical care (she didn't know all of them). She had the times she invited us and we cancelled. She wrote down the facts - no emotion - only the facts. She then sought legal council on my behalf (without my knowledge) and had a good attorney on retainer. She had rallied the troops behind my back. No one in my family talked about my situation to anyone outside the family unless (like the attorney and a therapist) they needed to. She increased her invitations, but, was not over the top. She was always understanding when I cancelled. Those things, even the ones that I didn't know about, meant the world to me when I finally decided to leave. My mother had even purchased a crib and baby equipment under the "I need these things at my home to make it easier for when you visit" excuse. She had been purchasing things for me as well. The moment I said to my Mom, "I can't go back. I can't handle this any longer" my Mom clarified and then called the attorney. It was amazing because within a couple of hours, my entire family, along with a Church official, and my attorney were sitting in my Mom's living room. When I was ready, I was able to apply and get a job working for my sister's friend. No one knew my story until afterwards. When there were problems with him stalking me and it was apparent my safety was at risk, my family was able to ask/tell people to protect me. I had a therapist, paid for by my family, for as long as I wanted/needed him. I guess my point is, you need to be supportive, non-judgmental of both DS and his GF. Share the story with your DS carefully. You never know when you might need someone to employee your DS. But, you don't need to sit idle. You can decide how you and your DH are going to handle things when DS decides he has had enough. You can put things in place. Instead of giving him $ now for her Disney trips and Justin Bieber tickets, put that into a savings account. Trust me, he is going to need it. You can make decisions and control your actions. Do not attempt to control their/his decisions. Thank you for sharing this. You are incredibly brave and your mom incredibly strong. We have a sibling who is going through something similar and it is hard. OP: You've gotten lots of advice. Hugs to you on this journey with your ds. I can't imagine how hard this is for you. Peace and strength to you.
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Post by mellowyellow on Apr 6, 2016 18:04:06 GMT
I read all of the replies and I will tell you what happened to me. I dated and married a guy that my dad did not like AT ALL! DH never did anything to me or my dad but dad thought he wasn't good enough for his "baby girl". My dad said and did some absolutely horrible things to my DH that has forever changed our relationship. He's apologized and sees now that he was wrong about all of it. Now, I'm not saying that you are wrong to feel the way you do about your son's gf. What I am saying is that you can never, ever take back your actions or your words....EVER. Tread lightly especially if your relationship is already fragile.
I've been married to DH for almost 22 years and I can still hear the words my dad said when we told him we were getting married. My whole experience including proposal, engagement and wedding was ruined because my dad thought he new better than me. I can't ever get that time back. Even though I have forgiven him, it still makes me sad sometimes.
Good luck and big hugs to you!
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Post by Belia on Apr 6, 2016 18:36:43 GMT
twinks- Is there anything your mom or anyone else in your family could have said to help facilitate you leaving your situation earlier?
I so admire your courage.
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Post by twinks on Apr 6, 2016 20:23:34 GMT
Thanks everyone for the kind compliments - especially regarding the strength and grace of my Mom. She was a very remarkable lady. I don't know how she did it when I was going through everything. I think my "Mother Bear" would be coming out frequently.
Belia - This happened many years ago when DV was a "couples problem." It was so unlike how I was raised and how my Dad treated my Mom - even my extended family. The whole situation was shocking to me. I think for a while (at least a year), I felt that if I only were good enough, or didn't make any mistakes, catered to him more, etc. that the marriage would be happy. Leaving him or divorce wasn't an option, I wasn't raised to give in. I felt like I was a failure. I was seeing a therapist until my XDH decided that he didn't like my going and one time totally beat me up and took away the car keys prior to my appointment. My family and my therapist knew that leaving had to be my decision. They knew it was going to be hard, but, they totally respected that it was my decision. I think I had to get to the point where I was totally beaten down both physically and emotionally and I had changed into a non-person (if that makes sense). I was literally scared and frightened all of the time. I really don't think they could have said or done anything to have me leave sooner. I just came to the conclusion that the life I was living wasn't life at all.
While that may have been a defining time in my life, it doesn't define who I am. I am not a victim. That is why I am very careful to share my story. I see the red flags and I am reading the advise and I know the history the OP has with her DS and his GF. It is heartbreaking and worrisome. I wanted to offer any help and insight that I could.
Okay, too much hijacking. My point in telling my story is that the OP needs to be supportive, be careful what she says and to whom, and allow her DS to make his own decisions.
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Post by jenjie on Apr 7, 2016 1:10:22 GMT
"While that may have been a defining time in my life, it doesn't define who I am. I am not a victim. " Yessss! So proud of you twinks
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Post by wallyagain on Apr 7, 2016 1:40:38 GMT
I read all of the replies and I will tell you what happened to me. I dated and married a guy that my dad did not like AT ALL! DH never did anything to me or my dad but dad thought he wasn't good enough for his "baby girl". My dad said and did some absolutely horrible things to my DH that has forever changed our relationship. He's apologized and sees now that he was wrong about all of it. Now, I'm not saying that you are wrong to feel the way you do about your son's gf. What I am saying is that you can never, ever take back your actions or your words....EVER. Tread lightly especially if your relationship is already fragile. I've been married to DH for almost 22 years and I can still hear the words my dad said when we told him we were getting married. My whole experience including proposal, engagement and wedding was ruined because my dad thought he new better than me. I can't ever get that time back. Even though I have forgiven him, it still makes me sad sometimes. Good luck and big hugs to you! DH's mom was like this when we got engaged, I cried so much the night we told his parents. We've been married almost 33 years and it still hurts. She's gone now but we never had a good relationship. Whatever you may think of her (not saying she's not a scrag), don't put him in that position. It was tough on my husband, he had to make a choice that no one his age should have to make.
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