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Post by anxiousmom on Jul 31, 2014 18:27:45 GMT
I just want to understand why today, why this circumstance ... Why do we (the global we) think that we should be able to dictate the way this war is fought? Because we want war to be civilized, when in fact it is savage. William Tecumseh Sherman knew of what he spoke when he said that war is hell. Civilians, even innocent children, die. It is tragic and horrible. There is nothing civilized about it. And no matter who wins, the children always lose. Always. Even those who are on the winning side. They will lose fathers, brothers, property, means of supporting themselves. Children will always suffer in war. That said, what is Israel supposed to do? No one has really answered that question. That is what I mean though. War is not, nor has it ever been civilized. I think I heard that something like 100,000 civilians have died in Syria in the most recent conflict. Most are noncombatants yet we are not hearing the same kind of comments at large. Where do the Syrians go? The Ukrainians in the conflict zone? They are dying in even larger numbers, but the question of where do they go isn't asked?
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lynm
Shy Member
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Jun 26, 2014 11:09:28 GMT
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Post by lynm on Jul 31, 2014 18:48:07 GMT
"quote from Freecharlie (sorry still cannot seem to get the correct post to quote) I don't know where they go and it is heartbreaking to think of all the innocent lives that not only are lost, but also injured and the emotional turmoil the survivors face.
Unfortunately, if the Hamas are using these places for cover, what is Israel supposed to do? Wait and see if the Hamas goes somewhere else? Let them develop a strong hold there next to that school?
War isn't pretty. There are casualties on both sides. Think of the bombings of England, France, Germany...Japan in WWII. "
When the IRA were bombing the UK and causing death and destruction you didn't see the British Army launching an outright attack on Northern Ireland, flattening it's entire infrastructure and killing thousands of civilians though did you ? To me it boils down to the same. How would we have even have thought of such a thing, we wouldn't, we couldn't - even though both those in the UK and N.Ireland lived in terror for many years - we didn't sink to that level - maybe the IDF should take a leaf out of this book. (Apologies if I offend any Brits and Irish in my analogy - it was not my intention)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2014 18:52:28 GMT
I don't know Sarah, all I know and want is for it to stop. Neither side is listening to anyone. The majority of Palestinians are just pawns in this. Why don't they send a UN peacekeeping force in there then they can open the borders ( which is one of the demands that Hamas wants) Let the UN control the borders rather than Israel.It worked in Cyprus for years between the Greek Cypriots and the Turks. Palestine have no borders, don't control their land in any shape or form, they have no access via sea or air. Not just in Gaza but the West Bank too. No other country in the world has these restrictions. It's just a large open air prison to anyone that lives in Gaza and the country itself is split in two. It bothers me that if it carries on the way it's going then the West Bank will also flare and it really will become more of a blood bath than it is now. I don't knowwhat the answer is. I think I'm clutching at straws.
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Post by myshelly on Jul 31, 2014 18:57:04 GMT
I don't know what the answer is.
But I do know that what Israel is doing right now isn't working, so continuing to do it seems like insanity.
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BarbaraUK
Drama Llama
Surrounded by my yarn stash on the NE coast of England...............!! Refupea 1702
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Post by BarbaraUK on Jul 31, 2014 19:15:12 GMT
That is what I mean though. War is not, nor has it ever been civilized. I think I heard that something like 100,000 civilians have died in Syria in the most recent conflict. Most are noncombatants yet we are not hearing the same kind of comments at large. Where do the Syrians go? The Ukrainians in the conflict zone? They are dying in even larger numbers, but the question of where do they go isn't asked? To answer your question from the UK point of view, the question of where they go is asked and reported in depth in the UK and I presume in the rest of Europe. The Syrian refugees are pouring across the border into Turkey, in the main, in their thousands and there are huge refugee camps there. We see pictures of the children and people, including casualties, in Syria and in the refugee camps in Turkey on our news almost every night, a lot of the children are without parents or family and showing the damage and stress of war. All the aid agencies are in Turkey and people from around Europe are helping out with humanitarian aid for these people and children. Our reporters also report from inside Syria. We also report on the Ukrainians in the conflict zone and the refugees from the conflict zone arriving in Ukraine with absolutely nothing. These reports are often shown alongside reports from Israel and the Gaza Strip. This is all shown as part of our TV news broadcasts every night, so we are well informed on the plight of the happenings in the trouble spots in the Mid East and Europe as well as around the world.
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Post by BeckyTech on Jul 31, 2014 19:27:26 GMT
The Israeli's have every reason to control their border. Suicide bombers and terrorists wish to enter their country to kill and kidnap their citizens. Those events were cut way back after they tightened control. Cause and effect. But what about the Egyptian border? Why is no one hammering the Egyptians over their control of their border with Gaza as much as they are Israel?
At most I might see one little sentence about the Egyptian border while people go on and on and on about Israel.
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Post by lucyg on Jul 31, 2014 19:30:59 GMT
That is what I mean though. War is not, nor has it ever been civilized. I think I heard that something like 100,000 civilians have died in Syria in the most recent conflict. Most are noncombatants yet we are not hearing the same kind of comments at large. Where do the Syrians go? The Ukrainians in the conflict zone? They are dying in even larger numbers, but the question of where do they go isn't asked? To answer your question from the UK point of view, the question of where they go is asked and reported in depth in the UK and I presume in the rest of Europe. The Syrian refugees are pouring across the border into Turkey, in the main, in their thousands and there are huge refugee camps there. We see pictures of the children and people, including casualties, in Syria and in the refugee camps in Turkey on our news almost every night, a lot of the children are without parents or family and showing the damage and stress of war. All the aid agencies are in Turkey and people from around Europe are helping out with humanitarian aid for these people and children. Our reporters also report from inside Syria. We also report on the Ukrainians in the conflict zone and the refugees from the conflict zone arriving in Ukraine with absolutely nothing. These reports are often shown alongside reports from Israel and the Gaza Strip. This is all shown as part of our TV news broadcasts every night, so we are well informed on the plight of the happenings in the trouble spots in the Mid East and Europe as well as around the world. Barbara, are there demonstrations at the Syrian ( not sure if one exists) and Russian embassies in London, as there was at the Israeli embassy with 45,000 angry protestors? Anti-Jewish slogans return to the streets in Germany as Mideast protests sweep Europe
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Pearl Clutcher
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Post by back to *pea*ality on Jul 31, 2014 19:51:04 GMT
I was listening to talk radio on Sirius this morning on the POTUS channel and also get the vibe from main stream liberal leaning news outlets that the sentiment that Americans have long held about Israel's right to defend itself is shifting towards more than just sympathy for innocent Palestinians but a softening towards Hamas. When you have Nancy Pelosi opining that her advisors in Qatar told her that Hamas are humanitarians it just makes you go Btw, isn't that the same place that the five Taliban from Gitmo were released to (exchange for Bergdahl). Yes, I am sure they are now part of the humanitarian effort too.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2014 19:51:55 GMT
Please forgive me if this makes no sense...I have been mulling over this question since last night and I am still not sure how to word this (also, I'm on an iPad and I gate typing on it. lol) i have a a history degree, this means, in part, that I have had to study wars. A number of the courses were in arenas that did not include, at least primarily, US involvement. Currently, there are at least three major areas of armed conflict in the world-all of which could have potential world effecting consequences. All of these conflicts are covered in the news venues. In my studies, and in my life-long desire to understand global politics, I try to read/understand current events. I think I spend additional effort to understand from more than just my ethnocentric view. In all that though, there are no "rules" of war. I can not recall a single war that had the type of scrutiny and demands from the media, public, or governments who are demanding that the Israelis change *how* the war is being fought. As some one else mentioned, there is not the same hue and cry over the deaths in Syria or even in the Ukraine. Or even the past actions of our own country who dropped bombs over two civilian filled cities in Japan. Why hey is this different? Why is Israel not afforded the exact same latitude to fight its war as it is appropriate for its country? My intent is not to diminish or be dismissive of the very real and very horrible lists of life. Not at all. It is awful. I just want to understand why today, why this circumstance ... Why do we (the global we) think that we should be able to dictate the way this war is fought? Some might not agree with it but this is my take on the points you've brought up. The difference between the Syrian and Ukraine situation is mainly that they are both civil wars. No other country is actually involved. I know Russia is " backing" the Ukraine one but they don't actually have Russian troops on the ground there and they haven't openly tried to overthrow the Ukraine government well on the surface they haven't. So care must be taken from that situation otherwise you're interfering in another country's " domestic" unrest. Same as Syria. The Hiroshima bomb was in fact dropped during World War 11 The Pacific War continued until September 1945 when Japan surrendered. Nazi Germany surrendered in Europe in the July of 1945. So technically the War that was declared in 1939 was still on going. It comes down to the legality of declaring you are at war with xyz. The difference between Palestine and Israel as far as I can see is that "war" has never been declared officially. Israel is defending itself against terrorism. They can't declare war on Palestine because Israel doesn't recognize it as a country. Apart from that they couldn't anyhow as Palestine has no official government controlled military. Don't forget there's two parties sharing the government of Palestine.Hamas id only one of them and only covers Gaza. The Geneva convention has been ratified a number of times since 1945 and in 1977 it included the International Humanitarian Law. linkThis is the part some are using to accuse Israel of "war" crimes.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2014 20:00:55 GMT
When you have Nancy Pelosi opining that her advisors in Qatar told her that Hamas are humanitarians it just makes you go Btw, isn't that the same place that the five Taliban from Gitmo were released to (exchange for Bergdahl). Yes, I am sure they are now part of the humanitarian effort too. I think Pelosi and Reid have both hit their expiration dates and curdled.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2014 20:04:39 GMT
Anyone who has a softening towards Hamas must be pretty sick.
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 31, 2014 20:19:29 GMT
I think part of the difference is that the IRA was not using schools, churches, residential areas as their point of attacks as the IRA used bombs and not missiles (usually). The IRA wanted England our of Ireland ; the Hamas want Israel gone off the map. In today's climate, with today's weapons if the IRA attacks were daily or even weekly, England might just fight back in the same way Israel is doing.
If they were shooting at my home, I'd want the government to flatten their resources as quickly as possible.
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scrappinmama
Drama Llama
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Jun 26, 2014 12:54:09 GMT
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Post by scrappinmama on Jul 31, 2014 20:26:10 GMT
I hate that we can't say we feel compassion for the victims, without being made to feel like we are anti Semitic. I'm angry that Hamas is using innocent people to hide behind. And I'm angry that Israel is killing innocent people. I'm angry that innocent people have to die in any war.
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BarbaraUK
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Surrounded by my yarn stash on the NE coast of England...............!! Refupea 1702
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Jun 27, 2014 12:47:11 GMT
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Post by BarbaraUK on Jul 31, 2014 20:29:59 GMT
To answer your question from the UK point of view, the question of where they go is asked and reported in depth in the UK and I presume in the rest of Europe. The Syrian refugees are pouring across the border into Turkey, in the main, in their thousands and there are huge refugee camps there. We see pictures of the children and people, including casualties, in Syria and in the refugee camps in Turkey on our news almost every night, a lot of the children are without parents or family and showing the damage and stress of war. All the aid agencies are in Turkey and people from around Europe are helping out with humanitarian aid for these people and children. Our reporters also report from inside Syria. We also report on the Ukrainians in the conflict zone and the refugees from the conflict zone arriving in Ukraine with absolutely nothing. These reports are often shown alongside reports from Israel and the Gaza Strip. This is all shown as part of our TV news broadcasts every night, so we are well informed on the plight of the happenings in the trouble spots in the Mid East and Europe as well as around the world. Barbara, are there demonstrations at the Syrian ( not sure if one exists) and Russian embassies in London, as there was at the Israeli embassy with 45,000 angry protestors? Anti-Jewish slogans return to the streets in Germany as Mideast protests sweep EuropeYes, there are Lucy - like Washington, London has regular protests about everything under the sun and the embassies are prime targets - but the protests at the Syrian embassy appear to have been put on the back burner at the moment because other things in the mid east are occupying the headlines. There have been some very large protests there about the situation in Syria. They will be back when this quietens down! So yes, huge gatherings have protested at both Russian and Syrian embassies quite regularly. However, the Syrian diplomats were expelled so the embassy is closed at present I think. I must point out one thing about the protest at the Israeli embassy in London because of the wording of the link. I did not hear, or read, about any anti-Jewish slogans being chanted. It was a pro-Palestinian protest and march which started at the Israeli embassy and then made it's way to our Parliament to protest to government there. What was being chanted and on placards was 'Free Gaza', 'Stop The Bombing', 'Free Palestine' and general pro-Palestinian slogans. I saw film and photographs and none of the placards had anti-Jewish slogans.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2014 20:36:27 GMT
I think part of the difference is that the IRA was not using schools, churches, residential areas as their point of attacks as the IRA used bombs and not missiles (usually). The IRA wanted England our of Ireland ; the Hamas want Israel gone off the map. In today's climate, with today's weapons if the IRA attacks were daily or even weekly, England might just fight back in the same way Israel is doing. If they were shooting at my home, I'd want the government to flatten their resources as quickly as possible. With respect freecharlie were bombs that were left in pubs, train stations and on the streets of London and elsewhere in England not forgetting what was happening in Northern Ireland, where they were guaranteed to kill a number of innocent people any less lethal than missiles fired at a country that has killed 3 people so far. There's also the difference that The British Government wasn't in Northern Ireland by force.It was there to protect the citizens of NI who by choice and a democratic ballot box voted to continue to be ruled by the British. Terrorist are terrorist wherever they are.
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conchita
Pearl Clutcher
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Jul 1, 2014 11:25:58 GMT
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Post by conchita on Jul 31, 2014 20:41:50 GMT
To answer your question from the UK point of view, the question of where they go is asked and reported in depth in the UK and I presume in the rest of Europe. The Syrian refugees are pouring across the border into Turkey, in the main, in their thousands and there are huge refugee camps there. We see pictures of the children and people, including casualties, in Syria and in the refugee camps in Turkey on our news almost every night, a lot of the children are without parents or family and showing the damage and stress of war. All the aid agencies are in Turkey and people from around Europe are helping out with humanitarian aid for these people and children. Our reporters also report from inside Syria. We also report on the Ukrainians in the conflict zone and the refugees from the conflict zone arriving in Ukraine with absolutely nothing. These reports are often shown alongside reports from Israel and the Gaza Strip. This is all shown as part of our TV news broadcasts every night, so we are well informed on the plight of the happenings in the trouble spots in the Mid East and Europe as well as around the world. Barbara, are there demonstrations at the Syrian ( not sure if one exists) and Russian embassies in London, as there was at the Israeli embassy with 45,000 angry protestors? Anti-Jewish slogans return to the streets in Germany as Mideast protests sweep EuropeThe article you linked Lucy is pretty much accurate about the surge in anti-semitism here in Germany. Last weekend in just about every major city they had pro-Palestinian rallies with a heavy polizei presence.
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Post by myshelly on Jul 31, 2014 20:46:08 GMT
I was listening to talk radio on Sirius this morning on the POTUS channel and also get the vibe from main stream liberal leaning news outlets that the sentiment that Americans have long held about Israel's right to defend itself is shifting towards more than just sympathy for innocent Palestinians but a softening towards Hamas. When you have Nancy Pelosi opining that her advisors in Qatar told her that Hamas are humanitarians it just makes you go Btw, isn't that the same place that the five Taliban from Gitmo were released to (exchange for Bergdahl). Yes, I am sure they are now part of the humanitarian effort too. I'm an extremely liberal democrat. I am not softening toward Hamas. But I am hardening toward Israel. The fact that Hamas is bad does not equal Israel is good. The fact that Hamas is wrong does not mean that Israel is right. I think there had been enough wrong and evil and violence on both sides. I'm tired of all of it. I don't want to be involved and don't want the US to be involved. I'm tired of the American = pro Israel status quo.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2014 20:48:38 GMT
Lucy here's a link to one of the Ukraine protest in London link
and here are some images of a Syrian protest link
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Post by *KatyCupcake* on Jul 31, 2014 20:54:54 GMT
I don't know what the answer is. But I do know that what Israel is doing right now isn't working, so continuing to do it seems like insanity. But if Israel does nothing, Hamas will continue firing rockets into Israel. If Israel does nothing, Hamas will continue to build tunnels into Israel to transport weapons and terrorists. There is absolutely NOTHING sensible about using your own children to shield your weapons. There is NOTHING sensible about turning places meant for civilian safety into warehouses for your rockets. There is NOTHING sensible about purposefully using your children as martyrs and fodder for propaganda. Hamas is to blame. Innocent civilians are sacrificed by their leaders to vilify Israel and further their terrorist objectives.
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lynm
Shy Member
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Jun 26, 2014 11:09:28 GMT
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Post by lynm on Jul 31, 2014 21:04:10 GMT
Yes, there are Lucy - like Washington, London has regular protests about everything under the sun and the embassies are prime targets - but the protests at the Syrian embassy appear to have been put on the back burner at the moment because other things in the mid east are occupying the headlines. There have been some very large protests there about the situation in Syria. They will be back when this quietens down! So yes, huge gatherings have protested at both Russian and Syrian embassies quite regularly. I must point out one thing about the protest at the Israeli embassy in London because of the wording of the link. I did not hear, or read, about any anti-Jewish slogans being chanted. It was a pro-Palestinian protest and march which started at the Israeli embassy and then made it's way to our Parliament to protest to government there. What was being chanted and on placards was 'Free Gaza', 'Stop The Bombing', 'Free Palestine' and general pro-Palestinian slogans. I saw film and photographs and none of the placards had anti-Jewish slogans. I was there and no, I didn't see or hear anything being chanted in an anti-Jewish manner - it wasn't about that. I have also protested about Syria on more than one occasion ( very close to home for me as we lived in Damascus many years ago)
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scrappammie
Junior Member
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Jun 25, 2014 21:31:40 GMT
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Post by scrappammie on Jul 31, 2014 21:11:23 GMT
I hate that we can't say we feel compassion for the victims, without being made to feel like we are anti Semitic. I'm angry that Hamas is using innocent people to hide behind. And I'm angry that Israel is killing innocent people. I'm angry that innocent people have to die in any war. (I don't mean to single you out scrappinmama - just using your quote as it's the most recent.) Where are people being called anti-semitic? I haven't seen anyone on the threads I've read calling out people for being upset at the loss of life. It IS terribly sad that people have died. No one disputes that - I feel just as sorry as you do. What I have seen is people who are trying to put some context out there and questioning why rockets and missiles going one direction don't seem to be as inflammatory as those going in the other. Is there disagreement about why that is? Sure. But, who's calling names?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2014 21:27:39 GMT
I was listening to talk radio on Sirius this morning on the POTUS channel and also get the vibe from main stream liberal leaning news outlets that the sentiment that Americans have long held about Israel's right to defend itself is shifting towards more than just sympathy for innocent Palestinians but a softening towards Hamas. When you have Nancy Pelosi opining that her advisors in Qatar told her that Hamas are humanitarians it just makes you go Btw, isn't that the same place that the five Taliban from Gitmo were released to (exchange for Bergdahl). Yes, I am sure they are now part of the humanitarian effort too. I'm an extremely liberal democrat. I am not softening toward Hamas. But I am hardening toward Israel. The fact that Hamas is bad does not equal Israel is good. The fact that Hamas is wrong does not mean that Israel is right. I think there had been enough wrong and evil and violence on both sides. I'm tired of all of it. I don't want to be involved and don't want the US to be involved. I'm tired of the American = pro Israel status quo. This is where I am as well. Too bad it automatically gets us labeled as anti-Semites.
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Pearl Clutcher
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Post by back to *pea*ality on Jul 31, 2014 21:32:46 GMT
I was listening to talk radio on Sirius this morning on the POTUS channel and also get the vibe from main stream liberal leaning news outlets that the sentiment that Americans have long held about Israel's right to defend itself is shifting towards more than just sympathy for innocent Palestinians but a softening towards Hamas. When you have Nancy Pelosi opining that her advisors in Qatar told her that Hamas are humanitarians it just makes you go Btw, isn't that the same place that the five Taliban from Gitmo were released to (exchange for Bergdahl). Yes, I am sure they are now part of the humanitarian effort too. I'm an extremely liberal democrat. I am not softening toward Hamas. But I am hardening toward Israel. The fact that Hamas is bad does not equal Israel is good. The fact that Hamas is wrong does not mean that Israel is right. I think there had been enough wrong and evil and violence on both sides. I'm tired of all of it. I don't want to be involved and don't want the US to be involved. I'm tired of the American = pro Israel status quo. This is pretty much the sentiment I heard today - and you have proved my point. Hamas is winning in the American court of public opinion. I heard someone say today that by shelling Palestine the Israelis are shooting at fish in a fishbowl. Also, that America is largely responsible because our funding of the iron dome gives Israel the leverage to dig their heels in and not negotiate. I am restating opinions that are not my own. I believe Israel has the right to defend itself. I also believe Muslim extremists will not be satisfied with anything less than wiping Israel off the face of the Earth. They will use innocent people to prove their point - that they love death, more than we love life.
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scrappammie
Junior Member
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Jun 25, 2014 21:31:40 GMT
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Post by scrappammie on Jul 31, 2014 21:34:40 GMT
WTF?
Again, I'm going to ask: Who is calling names?
The only people I've seen throwing labels around are doing so to themselves.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2014 21:34:55 GMT
The Israeli's have every reason to control their border. Suicide bombers and terrorists wish to enter their country to kill and kidnap their citizens. Those events were cut way back after they tightened control. Cause and effect. But what about the Egyptian border? Why is no one hammering the Egyptians over their control of their border with Gaza as much as they are Israel? At most I might see one little sentence about the Egyptian border while people go on and on and on about Israel. I wasn't implying that Israel didn't have the right to control THEIR border wherever that may be. I don't think they've declared where their border is with Palestine have they? Isn't that the reason it's being referred to as the occupied territories? I was referring to the fact that Gaza has no control over their own border. What other country in the world has to have permission from a neighbouring country to enter their own country....no one! We don't have to ask permission from our own border security to visit France....it's up to the the French who they let in into their own country not us. The system applies everywhere, you have one country's border agency at one point and the neighbouring border agency a little further on. It's not only Israel, I was including the Egyptian border in there too.......all borders into Gaza. If these were controlled by the UN it might work. Nothing is going to work if no one is prepared to try it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2014 21:43:53 GMT
WTF? Again, I'm going to ask: Who is calling names? The only people I've seen throwing labels around are doing so to themselves. It was said in the other big thread, many times over on the old board and implied time and time again. Again I am NOT softening on Hamas and never will. And Hamas is not winning. That is others placing words in my mouth. I only care about the innocents on both sides.
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Post by lucyg on Jul 31, 2014 21:50:06 GMT
I'm on my phone and can't respond to everything right now, but I did want to say I have to be honest ... I suggested "a streak of anti-semitism" re lynm, in the other thread. I don't remember why but it wasn't for anything like feelng compassion for innocent Palestinian victims.
oh yeah, I remember now. It was her insistence that Israel is committing genocide. My blood is boiling once again and I won't apologize for it.
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Pearl Clutcher
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Post by back to *pea*ality on Jul 31, 2014 21:53:49 GMT
My post was an observation about what I am seeing and hearing in the media. It was not directed at any one person. I think most clear headed reading this thread understood that. I have never accused anyone of being anti Semitic, not in this thread, not in the other thread, not on the other board.
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 31, 2014 21:55:53 GMT
I think part of the difference is that the IRA was not using schools, churches, residential areas as their point of attacks as the IRA used bombs and not missiles (usually). The IRA wanted England our of Ireland ; the Hamas want Israel gone off the map. In today's climate, with today's weapons if the IRA attacks were daily or even weekly, England might just fight back in the same way Israel is doing. If they were shooting at my home, I'd want the government to flatten their resources as quickly as possible. With respect freecharlie were bombs that were left in pubs, train stations and on the streets of London and elsewhere in England not forgetting what was happening in Northern Ireland, where they were guaranteed to kill a number of innocent people any less lethal than missiles fired at a country that has killed 3 people so far. There's also the difference that The British Government wasn't in Northern Ireland by force.It was there to protect the citizens of NI who by choice and a democratic ballot box voted to continue to be ruled by the British. Terrorist are terrorist wherever they are. I know they left bombs on public places and killed numerous people. What is was trying to get to (and apparently failed) is that, as tar as I know ( which is not a large sum, but basic understanding) the Ira hadn't set up shop next to a school and fired their bombs from there expecting England not to fight back. They were terroristic as Hamas is when they bomb a farmers market or cafe, not miltitaristic as they are when they fire rockets from civilian places.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2014 21:55:58 GMT
My post was an observation about what I am seeing and hearing in the media. It was not directed at any one person. I think most clear headed reading this thread understood that. I have never accused anyone of being anti Semitic, not in this thread, not in the other thread, not on the other board. I'm perfectly clear headed but thanks for that. When you directly quote someone and say that proves your point what else conclusion should one make?
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