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Post by leftturnonly on Aug 2, 2014 5:15:14 GMT
Another excellent article: linkIsrael has taken the idea of precautionary measures to an unmatched level. One case has been found of Israeli soldiers using a civilian as a shield, and these soldiers were convicted. The point here is that IDF knows the co-ordinates of a building that should be off limits for the purposes of conducting a war, but does not address whether or not Hamas was keeping it as such. That gives me a much better idea of the size of the area involved. It makes the whole rain of rockets by Hamas into Israel even more difficult to comprehend. Each time they make an aggressive attack - each and every time - the people responsible know that there is no place for their women and children to get away from the retaliation that must follow. Other Arab nations want Israel wiped off the map. They do not take Palestinians into their own countries and continue to weaponize Hamas. Have they no blame here? They give Palestinians weapons and lock them in this small space filling their hearts with hate against the Israelis they themselves have not been able to defeat during their own failed attempts. Now, they have primed these people to do the dirty work of fighting for them. The only reason to fight is to kill Jews and destroy the only nation in the world specifically set aside for Jews to live. That makes all those nations complicit in every death on both sides of this conflict. I missed that in your OP. I've missed that from lynm. What I did not miss was the specific vocabulary from lynm and her understanding of what is demeaning. Genocide - OK to use. Stupid - not OK.
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Post by jamieson on Aug 2, 2014 5:28:16 GMT
Acknowledging that disagreeing with Israel does not make one an anti-Semite would be a good start. I freely acknowledge that. What next? You lost me at "fuck you."
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Post by jamieson on Aug 2, 2014 6:06:10 GMT
Acknowledging that disagreeing with Israel does not make one an anti-Semite would be a good start. I freely acknowledge that. What next? 5,000 people showed up at a pro-Palestinian rally in Tel Aviv a couple of weeks ago. I'm pretty sure they were disagreeing with Israel, and since the vast majority of them were Jewish, I doubt they consider themselves anti-Semitic. I think the obvious answer here, based on your posts, is that you consider them anti-semitic whether they are Jews or not.
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Post by I-95 on Aug 2, 2014 6:39:52 GMT
I don't consider that much of a loss.
No, but based on your posts I do think you're an idiot.
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Post by jamieson on Aug 2, 2014 6:56:28 GMT
And you are a class act, I-95.
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BarbaraUK
Drama Llama
Surrounded by my yarn stash on the NE coast of England...............!! Refupea 1702
Posts: 5,961
Location: England UK
Jun 27, 2014 12:47:11 GMT
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Post by BarbaraUK on Aug 2, 2014 8:28:24 GMT
Incidentally, as much as some of you Brits can get me PO'ed, I do want to acknowledge that the soldier who was kidnapped this morning is a dual Israeli/British citizen, and for that, I'm sorry. He's a 23 year old kid, a year younger than my son, and he's not in for a good time. I hope the Israelis find him before he's tortured or killed. I realised late last night I-95 that my response to your post may have sounded a little abrupt. All day long here there had been intense speculation, started on social media, that the soldier had dual Israeli/British nationality. A government spokesman said they couldn't confirm that and/or he had British connections in some way and were urgently investigating. I hadn't heard an up to the minute news bulletin when I read your post so thought you had heard confirmation and you had been aware of the speculation beforehand. So the beginning of my post wasn't meant to sound abrupt - sorry. By the way, still no confirmation of if the soldier is dual nationality up to now. I have heard an interview with his father, and have read that he is a twin and that his twin is serving with the Israeli army. I cannot imagine how his twin feels right now.
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Post by I-95 on Aug 2, 2014 8:52:18 GMT
OMG. How horrible for him. That's devastating. Our news reports were saying that his father was/is a British doctor, but I hadn't heard he had a twin in the IDF. Everyone here knows how things turned out when Gilad Shalit was kidnapped and not released for 5 years. Hamas has made no secret of the fact they are looking for any opportunity to kidnap a soldier and it is a bonus if he should be either an American, or British dual National. They know both countries will stay focused on them if they have snatched a foreign citizen. It's another reason that ground campaign might get uglier than it's already been. The IDF is very focused on finding this boy, and they will not be politely knocking on doors asking if anyone knows his whereabouts.
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conchita
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,141
Jul 1, 2014 11:25:58 GMT
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Post by conchita on Aug 2, 2014 8:55:51 GMT
And you are a class act, I-95. I agree, she's pretty damn awesome! I've appreciated her input and point of view and I think she kept her cool considering what was said to her and the situation she's currently in. After reading the first thread you showed how reluctant you were in seeing any other perspective. Then you started this thread and it's been just as informative and helpful in getting people to open up and try to understand both sides. And because I feel like repeating myself, here's something I posted in the other thread: When anti-semitism is referred to in the news here it really is anti-semitism. They're not just talking about those who are protesting. And it wouldn't be advisable to actually report what hate speech was being shouted during the rallies. Protesting is one thing but calling out, "Death to Jews" is hate speech and is taken very seriously here in Germany. Attacking Jews in the streets is a hate crime. Attacking synagogues is a hate crime. Those are obvious. Being pro-Palestine doesn't make you anti-Semitic any more than being pro-Israel makes you anti-Palestine. But there has been an increase in anti-semitism speech and crimes from those who are also Palestinian supporters. And I have noticed a subtlety in some people's responses here that borders on anti-Semitism. They say just enough without crossing the line. That's been MY perception. I do not believe the majority of posters here who do support the Palestinian people are anti-Semitic. I think we are all agreeing that the deaths on both sides is horrific. But I do not blame Israel. I blame Hamas. And that's where we all seem to be disagreeing. Here's an example of what's going on in my neck of the woods: "DEUTSCHE NEWS: The Local website reports German police arrested a second suspect on Wednesday in connection with an attack in which Molotov cocktails were thrown at a synagogue in western Germany. Prosecutors in Wuppertal said they had arrested a 19-year-old from Syria on Wednesday in connection with the attack on the city's Bergische synagogue in the early hours of Tuesday morning. Police believe three young men threw a number of burning bottles into the synagogue entrance-way in an apparent attempt to burn it down."
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Post by Skypea on Aug 2, 2014 10:07:29 GMT
When you have Nancy Pelosi opining that her advisors in Qatar told her that Hamas are humanitarians it just makes you go Btw, isn't that the same place that the five Taliban from Gitmo were released to (exchange for Bergdahl). Yes, I am sure they are now part of the humanitarian effort too. I think Pelosi and Reid have both hit their expiration dates and curdled. yes, that is the same place. they both should be carted out of congress. maybe mummified. They look and sound like they are ready for that! neither one makes any sense anymore - haven't for many yrs.
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Post by Skypea on Aug 2, 2014 10:10:55 GMT
Frankly, I don't think Israel much cares what people think of them or care if others think they "look bad". I think Israel is so used to having to take care of themselves...on their own...and they can't be bothered worrying about what others think. And honestly, who could blame them? And in regards to the UN stepping in and doing something? Seriously? The UN couldn't find its own ass with a flashlight. The UN is worthless. you are right. They'll do what they need to do to protect their people and land. And they should!!
the UN is less than worthless...
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 8, 2024 20:24:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2014 10:20:45 GMT
OMG. How horrible for him. That's devastating. Our news reports were saying that his father was/is a British doctor, but I hadn't heard he had a twin in the IDF. All they've reported here so far is, he has a twin and that the family apparently lived in Cambridge for a few years. The source of that info was attributed to a Rabbi that knew them. An official government spokesman said they were trying to confirm the basis of these links to the UK.
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Post by Skypea on Aug 2, 2014 10:22:03 GMT
how would you feel if you lived there and Hamas was bombing your neighborhood? Coming into your country and killing people? maybe next it'd be you or one of your kids. You might want to think back to what the Jewish people have gone thru in the past too.
how about looking on youtube for an interview with the son of one of the founders of Hamas? He says that Hamas will never stop, their goal is to destroy Israel and its people. Groups like Hamas are out to destroy any people/country that won't be subject to them. Who will support you when they come to your neighborhood?
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Post by I-95 on Aug 2, 2014 11:37:50 GMT
Thank you. I had not been aware of any speculation going on. All I heard was that he was a dual citizen. I'm really surprised this hasn't been cleared up yet. The IDF would know and so should his parents. Anyway, I was not in any way offended by your post, but thank you for being so considerate Thanks Conchita. I appreciate that.
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Post by anxiousmom on Aug 2, 2014 11:42:21 GMT
That is true, but Jewish, or not, if my kids had been born in Israel they would have been required to serve anyway. The young man who was planning to leave the US and join the IDF would have been making Aliyah ('returning' to Israel under the right of return) which would make him a citizen and eligible for National Service. My next door neighbor is from Sweden, not Jewish, but both her Israeli born, non-Jewish children have done their National Service, and are now in the reserves. Thank youu...I am going to spend a few minutes with Mr. Google and learn a little more about it. I wish I had paid more attention to the interview, the young man was well spoken and had a definite passion.
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Post by jonda1974 on Aug 2, 2014 22:21:35 GMT
I don't understand the concept of not protecting yourself at all cost? Why would Israel not protect it's citizens. I have a feeling if they didn't have the iron dome, and their was more Israeli blood, they would not be getting blasted by the global community. But because they actually spent money to protect, and Palestine spent it on weapons, Israel is the bad guy. I ache for the loss of life. But if someone was shooting at my house everyday, I'd do everything necessary to stop,them as well. Hamas wants limitless access to the borders. They haven't earned that trust. They want a two state solution. They lost that war, and the territory they want would cut Israel in half and take Jerusalem. They are being unreasonable. The citizens are living in a no win situation. I feel horrible for them, but until they fight against their own government and join with Israel against Hamas and the PLO , I don't see how their situation can improve.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 8, 2024 20:24:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2014 0:41:28 GMT
I don't understand the concept of not protecting yourself at all cost? Why would Israel not protect it's citizens. I have a feeling if they didn't have the iron dome, and their was more Israeli blood, they would not be getting blasted by the global community. But because they actually spent money to protect, and Palestine spent it on weapons, Israel is the bad guy. I ache for the loss of life. But if someone was shooting at my house everyday, I'd do everything necessary to stop,them as well. Hamas wants limitless access to the borders. They haven't earned that trust. They want a two state solution. They lost that war, and the territory they want would cut Israel in half and take Jerusalem. They are being unreasonable. The citizens are living in a no win situation. I feel horrible for them, but until they fight against their own government and join with Israel against Hamas and the PLO , I don't see how their situation can improve. Yep...the US would never tolerate anyone shooting rockets into our cities and trying every day to kill our citizens. Why does the world expect Israel just sit there and take it?
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Post by anxiousmom on Aug 3, 2014 0:58:16 GMT
I don't understand the concept of not protecting yourself at all cost? Why would Israel not protect it's citizens. I have a feeling if they didn't have the iron dome, and their was more Israeli blood, they would not be getting blasted by the global community. But because they actually spent money to protect, and Palestine spent it on weapons, Israel is the bad guy. I ache for the loss of life. But if someone was shooting at my house everyday, I'd do everything necessary to stop,them as well. Hamas wants limitless access to the borders. They haven't earned that trust. They want a two state solution. They lost that war, and the territory they want would cut Israel in half and take Jerusalem. They are being unreasonable. The citizens are living in a no win situation. I feel horrible for them, but until they fight against their own government and join with Israel against Hamas and the PLO , I don't see how their situation can improve. Yep...the US would never tolerate anyone shooting rockets into our cities and trying every day to kill our citizens. Why does the world expect Israel just sit there and take it? This, this a thousand times this. And this is what I keep coming back to. Let's say...Cuba started lobbing rockets at Florida and Guantanamo . No tunnels, but submarines trying to sneak in troops to attack the citizens of Florida (the closest analogy I can think of.) Would the US sit back and take it? I can't see that happening. We (the US) would be ALL over it. There would be returning rockets, submarines, boats, jets, and all kinds of stealthy attacks.
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Post by I-95 on Aug 3, 2014 6:24:10 GMT
How sad Hadar Goldin, the Israeli soldier believed to have been abducted by Palestinian gunman, has been declared dead by the Israeli military, officials announced early Sunday. The 23-year-old's death was announced after Israel's defense minister, along with the chief rabbi, met with the soldier's family at their home in the town of Kfar Saba, the Associated Press reported. Military officials said that the Goldin, of the Givati infantry brigade was killed in battle on Friday.
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Post by mollycoddle on Aug 3, 2014 6:57:46 GMT
I don't understand the concept of not protecting yourself at all cost? Why would Israel not protect it's citizens. I have a feeling if they didn't have the iron dome, and their was more Israeli blood, they would not be getting blasted by the global community. But because they actually spent money to protect, and Palestine spent it on weapons, Israel is the bad guy. I ache for the loss of life. But if someone was shooting at my house everyday, I'd do everything necessary to stop,them as well. Hamas wants limitless access to the borders. They haven't earned that trust. They want a two state solution. They lost that war, and the territory they want would cut Israel in half and take Jerusalem. They are being unreasonable. The citizens are living in a no win situation. I feel horrible for them, but until they fight against their own government and join with Israel against Hamas and the PLO , I don't see how their situation can improve. Exactly. The points about Hamas are worth repeating. They ARE being unreasonable, and they have not proven themselves to be trustworthy.
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Post by jamieson on Aug 3, 2014 7:15:41 GMT
Oh no, no talk of anti-semitism or the like. Just post a dissenting opinion and I-95 will call you an idiot and tell you to fuck off.
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Post by *KatyCupcake* on Aug 3, 2014 15:58:56 GMT
Oh no, no talk of anti-semitism or the like. Just post a dissenting opinion and I-95 will call you an idiot and tell you to fuck off. That's not what you did to warrant I-95's response. You blamed Israel for the deaths of innocent children. Israel has been very careful to avoid those deaths and Hamas is more than eager to sacrifice them to make Israel out to be evil. Being upset over innocent deaths and asking hard questions about this war is normal. Blaming Israel for the deaths and demanding they stop defending their borders and citizens, well that warrants I-95's response.
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scrappammie
Junior Member
Posts: 78
Jun 25, 2014 21:31:40 GMT
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Post by scrappammie on Aug 3, 2014 16:30:37 GMT
Oh no, no talk of anti-semitism or the like. Just post a dissenting opinion and I-95 will call you an idiot and tell you to fuck off. I'm going to politely point out that being an idiot and anti-Semite are two different things. You could be one and not the other. It's also possible to be both. And, while I won't tell you to fuck off for expressing a dissenting opinion, I'm also not having rockets lobbed at me while you're doing so. If you can't understand why a person might post such a thing in that situation, I would call you an idiot.
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Post by *KatyCupcake* on Aug 3, 2014 16:59:42 GMT
Liz, that's not my name. Please call me Katy.
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conchita
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,141
Jul 1, 2014 11:25:58 GMT
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Post by conchita on Aug 3, 2014 18:52:05 GMT
Oh okay, Karalynn. I mean Katy. That's not cool Liz.
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Post by lucyg on Aug 3, 2014 18:59:44 GMT
Liz, pleeeeze stop trying to make liberals everywhere look bad.
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Post by Kymberlee on Aug 3, 2014 20:02:09 GMT
Apparently not, Karalynn. Apparently not. I see you are the same unpleasant person you were at the Bucket. Nice to see that some things never change.
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Post by mollycoddle on Aug 3, 2014 20:37:57 GMT
What does being a liberal have to do with anything, Lucy? What are you talking about? [ Not Lucy, but I think that she means that this one-sided blame of Israel is patently unfair. The only reason that Israel has relatively few casualties is because Israel has better technology. It isn't because Hamas is better or less deadly. Look, we all think that the casualties in Gaza are horrific. But you have to admit that Hamas has played a large part in the deaths of its citizens.
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Post by lucyg on Aug 3, 2014 21:42:29 GMT
What does being a liberal have to do with anything, Lucy? What are you talking about? [ Not Lucy, but I think that she means that this one-sided blame of Israel is patently unfair. The only reason that Israel has relatively few casualties is because Israel has better technology. It isn't because Hamas is better or less deadly. Look, we all think that the casualties in Gaza are horrific. But you have to admit that Hamas has played a large part in the deaths of its citizens. You have my complete permission to interpret my confusing comments any time you like. I don't think I've ever once disagreed with you on either pea board. BUT in this one instance ... my intention was actually much simpler. Liz is a screaming liberal, we all know that. When she insists on posting stalkerish stuff like "sure Karalynn, whatever you say Karalynn" (or whatever she said on the previous page ... I don't even remember anymore), I think it reflects badly on all of us. However, especially given the fact that no one even got what I was talking about, it was a dumb thing for me to involve myself in. Sorry, everyone.
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Post by mollycoddle on Aug 3, 2014 21:52:37 GMT
[ Not Lucy, but I think that she means that this one-sided blame of Israel is patently unfair. The only reason that Israel has relatively few casualties is because Israel has better technology. It isn't because Hamas is better or less deadly. Look, we all think that the casualties in Gaza are horrific. But you have to admit that Hamas has played a large part in the deaths of its citizens. You have my complete permission to interpret my confusing comments any time you like. I don't think I've ever once disagreed with you on either pea board. BUT in this one instance ... my intention was actually much simpler. Liz is a screaming liberal, we all know that. When she insists on posting stalkerish stuff like "sure Karalynn, whatever you say Karalynn" (or whatever she said on the previous page ... I don't even remember anymore), I think it reflects badly on all of us. However, especially given the fact that no one even got what I was talking about, it was a dumb thing for me to involve myself in. Sorry, everyone. Aw shucks, Lucy-sorry. I blame my bad interpretation. . However, both of us have valid points, IMO.
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Post by lucyg on Aug 3, 2014 22:01:22 GMT
Yes, that is quite true.
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