Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
|
Post by Rainbow on Jun 21, 2016 14:43:31 GMT
It's very "funny" (not) that now we have gone from criminals having assault types of weapons to this week it being all about the mentally ill are the mass shooters and who should be focused on. ESPECIALLY when any attempts to provide for better mental health have been voted down by Republican's. Wonder who it's going to be next week... I don't know anyone who is against better mental health care. As a matter of fact, I think they should bring back the long term facilities to house those who cannot safely live in society at large.
|
|
|
Post by missmiss on Jun 21, 2016 14:48:39 GMT
We must have a lot of mentally ill people in the USA with all this gun violence.
|
|
|
Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 21, 2016 14:53:10 GMT
It's very "funny" (not) that now we have gone from criminals having assault types of weapons to this week it being all about the mentally ill are the mass shooters and who should be focused on. ESPECIALLY when any attempts to provide for better mental health have been voted down by Republican's. Wonder who it's going to be next week... I don't know anyone who is against better mental health care. As a matter of fact, I think they should bring back the long term facilities to house those who cannot safely live in society at large.You ignore anything and everything that others have ousted showing you that attempts for better mental health care are being talked down voted against, and funding cut. Many of Those same Republican's in Congress who are paid for by the NRA. You are playing word games again, purposefully being obtuse.
|
|
Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
|
Post by Rainbow on Jun 21, 2016 15:01:18 GMT
I don't know anyone who is against better mental health care. As a matter of fact, I think they should bring back the long term facilities to house those who cannot safely live in society at large. You ignore anything and everything that others have ousted showing you that attempts for better mental health care are being talked down voted against, and funding cut. Many of Those same Republican's in Congress who are paid for by the NRA. You are playing word games again, purposefully being obtuse. What makes you think anyone in the NRA is against better mental health care?
|
|
|
Post by katiejane on Jun 21, 2016 15:08:55 GMT
I still am no clearer in understanding the 'gun culture' in the US. I can't imagine living where you are so afraid of your safety that you 'need' to owe a gun. Or so suspicious of your elected government that you want a gun to.....not sure what you need one for. I find it heartbreaking that children have to practice drills incase a nutjob with a gun comes into their school. The deflection of its really about mental health rather than controls is confusing. Mental health is a different issue. Thats an issue that lots of countries are dealing with. It is complex and difficult to understand and treat. It seems from the outside that hanging it all one that one issue means that people can hide behind it and say its nothing to do with them, it's mental health and someone else needs to fix that. If that was sorted it would all be ok. The issue of strong and robust checks and controls on ownership and the decision of who can and can't own a gun. The types of guns that are appropriate for the different circumstances and the checks that are carried out, the schedule of when they are a carried out seems a more logical conversation. This doesn't appear to be happening as many of these mass shootings and 'accidents' seemed to be reported as happening with legally owned guns.
|
|
|
Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 21, 2016 15:14:04 GMT
You ignore anything and everything that others have ousted showing you that attempts for better mental health care are being talked down voted against, and funding cut. Many of Those same Republican's in Congress who are paid for by the NRA. You are playing word games again, purposefully being obtuse. What makes you think anyone in the NRA is against better mental health care?Already answered that unthread. Keep up.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 5, 2024 3:18:31 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2016 15:34:25 GMT
I still am no clearer in understanding the 'gun culture' in the US. I can't imagine living where you are so afraid of your safety that you 'need' to owe a gun. Or so suspicious of your elected government that you want a gun to.....not sure what you need one for. I find it heartbreaking that children have to practice drills incase a nutjob with a gun comes into their school. The deflection of its really about mental health rather than controls is confusing. Mental health is a different issue. Thats an issue that lots of countries are dealing with. It is complex and difficult to understand and treat. It seems from the outside that hanging it all one that one issue means that people can hide behind it and say its nothing to do with them, it's mental health and someone else needs to fix that. If that was sorted it would all be ok. The issue of strong and robust checks and controls on ownership and the decision of who can and can't own a gun. The types of guns that are appropriate for the different circumstances and the checks that are carried out, the schedule of when they are a carried out seems a more logical conversation. This doesn't appear to be happening as many of these mass shootings and 'accidents' seemed to be reported as happening with legally owned guns. This is definitely not the mindset of most people in the U.S. Just like in the media, those types just get all the attention here, and they constantly manage to derail real discussion. I totally agree with everything you posted.
|
|
Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
|
Post by Rainbow on Jun 21, 2016 15:40:06 GMT
I don't know anyone who is against better mental health care. As a matter of fact, I think they should bring back the long term facilities to house those who cannot safely live in society at large. You ignore anything and everything that others have ousted showing you that attempts for better mental health care are being talked down voted against, and funding cut. Many of Those same Republican's in Congress who are paid for by the NRA. You are playing word games again, purposefully being obtuse. So far nobody has shown me anything.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 5, 2024 3:18:31 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2016 15:42:34 GMT
|
|
|
Post by gar on Jun 21, 2016 15:43:23 GMT
papercrafteradvocate, you can see where this is going can't you? It's a huge game and I can see it even more clearly now sitting back and watching. Not engaging is much more satisfactory!
|
|
|
Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 21, 2016 15:57:43 GMT
papercrafteradvocate, you can see where this is going can't you? It's a huge game and I can see it even more clearly now sitting back and watching. Not engaging is much more satisfactory! Yes, totally! Like I said, she's predictable !! Back in the TwoPeas days, I posted on threads debunking her "crap" (as she often puts things) where she spouted off the same types of hate comments, propaganda, narrow minded radical views because I noticed that there were newer and young peas who were impressionable and they were following her down that uneducated abyss, as if what she wrote was the gospel truth. I felt it important to help educate that there were other places to seek information to make a better informed opinion. She's still the same as she was back then, predictable. It's sad to see someone who is hell bent on the game playing, and the only intelligence she's insulting is her own!
|
|
|
Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 21, 2016 15:59:50 GMT
This is what we are working on here now. It's amazing the amount of people, both gun owners and those who don't own guns assemble because both "sides" agree that changes need to be made.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 5, 2024 3:18:31 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2016 16:05:20 GMT
You can also sign up to get weekly emails on how your elected representatives are voting. From the sign-up page: Track your Senators' and Representative's votes by e-mail Each week (that Congress is in session) you will receive: • Key votes by your two Senators and U.S. Representative. • Links to send e-mail to your members of Congress using pre-addressed forms. • Upcoming votes for your review and a chance to offer e-mail input before they vote. Use this weekly vote monitor to track the decisions made by your elected officials on key issues.link
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 5, 2024 3:18:31 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2016 16:10:13 GMT
Interesting reading but not surprised at the results. It's pretty obvious from those results that they cast their votes, not on the topic in hand but "I'm going to vote the opposite to you whatever the topic" Very sad really that they don't much care for the well being and safety of the people that voted them into office or anyone else for that matter. Makes one wonder why they entered politics to begin with if they find it so difficult to vote for what is good for the country and its citizens.
|
|
|
Post by refugeepea on Jun 21, 2016 16:10:23 GMT
Back in the TwoPeas days, I posted on threads debunking her "crap" (as she often puts things) where she spouted off the same types of hate comments, propaganda, narrow minded radical views because I noticed that there were newer and young peas who were impressionable and they were following her down that uneducated abyss, as if what she wrote was the gospel truth. I think you are giving her more credit than she or anyone deserves. It's so easy to debunk most things or find half truths in posts with googling and checking sources. Nothing wrong with posting facts that discredit a comment, but I'd give more credit to adults on a message board.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 5, 2024 3:18:31 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2016 16:33:34 GMT
I don't see anyone proposing anything to help the mentally ill get better care, to expand those programs. Why not do that? Don't act like nothing can be done because you didn't restrict gun rights. Why don't you call my Republican Governor and ask HIM why he shut down two of our mental health hospitals in the past year? Because of that assholian move, the cuts he made to our state Medicaid budget and privatizing our Medicaid (which upped the admin costs of the program by 300%), Iowa now stands close to the bottom of the US in mental health care. WTG Governor Branstad! Something your legacy can be so proud of.....asshole.
|
|
|
Post by JBeans on Jun 21, 2016 18:06:55 GMT
You are absolutely right. You know what has to change? The entire gun culture. I just don't see that changing. I don't really know what a "gun culture" is, so would you explain? I do know that the evil in people's hearts and minds needs to change and we do need a better mental health system. Rainbow, see the last post I quoted on this thread. I want to say it is on page 2 But because you are picking and choosing what you are looking at here it is again.... Quote likePost Options ilovecookies said:Rainbow is the perfect example of why it's important to seek information from as many credible sources as possible, to be open to (real) discussion with people of differing views, and how important it is to use critical thinking skills so that you don't give in to unreasonable fear and paranoia. Shrieking about freedom while living a life paralyzed by fear and filled with a steady stream of doom, gloom, and paranoia has got to be a really miserable existence. Then there's the irony. How "free" are you when all you can talk about is "defending your freedom" ? The FUD is working on her and it's sad. This is how I see the US gun fundamentalists. People with a fear that something is lurking and the potential for their life to be in danger to the point that they feel the only remedy is to carry. I mean, as Canadians, we have guns. We love our guns. We love our hunting. Our pistols. Our gun clubs. We hated our long gun registry so much we scrapped it. So, frankly, we loosened our gun laws. The difference is, we have no want to carry them. We don't feel this fear. Correct me if I am wrong, but I see this gun culture in the US revolve around year upon year of conditioning of two things. 1. Pride. Pride in arming oneself. Pride in such an easy ability to own a gun. Pride in the sense that guns are sexy. Special. Pride in power. Guns give you power. Pride that there is some chance you could be the hero because you have a gun. Pride that gun ownership defines you. 2. Fear. Fear that not having a gun will make you powerless. Fear that not having a gun makes you less free. Fear that danger is lurking everywhere. Fear that someone is out to get you. Fear that the only thing that can reasonably protect you is a gun. How do you even begin to change a culture that is based around pride and fear?
|
|
|
Post by JBeans on Jun 21, 2016 18:47:15 GMT
papercrafteradvocate, you can see where this is going can't you? It's a huge game and I can see it even more clearly now sitting back and watching. Not engaging is much more satisfactory! Yep. Nice game of duck, dodge and dive.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 5, 2024 3:18:31 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2016 19:42:59 GMT
This is how I see the US gun fundamentalists. People with a fear that something is lurking and the potential for their life to be in danger to the point that they feel the only remedy is to carry. I mean, as Canadians, we have guns. We love our guns. We love our hunting. Our pistols. Our gun clubs. We hated our long gun registry so much we scrapped it. So, frankly, we loosened our gun laws. The difference is, we have no want to carry them. We don't feel this fear. Correct me if I am wrong, but I see this gun culture in the US revolve around year upon year of conditioning of two things. 1. Pride. Pride in arming oneself. Pride in such an easy ability to own a gun. Pride in the sense that guns are sexy. Special. Pride in power. Guns give you power. Pride that there is some chance you could be the hero because you have a gun. Pride that gun ownership defines you. 2. Fear. Fear that not having a gun will make you powerless. Fear that not having a gun makes you less free. Fear that danger is lurking everywhere. Fear that someone is out to get you. Fear that the only thing that can reasonably protect you is a gun. How do you even begin to change a culture that is based around pride and fear? Being prepared is not the same as being afraid. What was it that you hated about your long gun registry?
|
|
suzastampin
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,587
Jun 28, 2014 14:32:59 GMT
|
Post by suzastampin on Jun 21, 2016 22:23:32 GMT
Thanks for posting this. I had a thing come through my FB with the ones who voted against the two bills yesterday, but I couldn't figure out how to post it. It blows my mind how the Republicans, with the exception of a couple, think it's ok to sell a gun to somebody on a terrorist watch list! And, shame on those few Democrats that think it's ok also! I guess common sense isn't common any more. Crazy! And, there should be background checks on everybody. I am not against guns, and I know that criminals will get them anyway, but for these votes to go the way they did just shows how many pockets the NRA is in. Disgusting! ETA: the ban on assault weapons needs to be put in place again. The only people who should have them are law enforcement and the military. I have no clue how they would accomplish this at this point.
|
|
|
Post by JBeans on Jun 21, 2016 22:50:11 GMT
This is how I see the US gun fundamentalists. People with a fear that something is lurking and the potential for their life to be in danger to the point that they feel the only remedy is to carry. I mean, as Canadians, we have guns. We love our guns. We love our hunting. Our pistols. Our gun clubs. We hated our long gun registry so much we scrapped it. So, frankly, we loosened our gun laws. The difference is, we have no want to carry them. We don't feel this fear. Correct me if I am wrong, but I see this gun culture in the US revolve around year upon year of conditioning of two things. 1. Pride. Pride in arming oneself. Pride in such an easy ability to own a gun. Pride in the sense that guns are sexy. Special. Pride in power. Guns give you power. Pride that there is some chance you could be the hero because you have a gun. Pride that gun ownership defines you. 2. Fear. Fear that not having a gun will make you powerless. Fear that not having a gun makes you less free. Fear that danger is lurking everywhere. Fear that someone is out to get you. Fear that the only thing that can reasonably protect you is a gun. How do you even begin to change a culture that is based around pride and fear? Being prepared is not the same as being afraid. What was it that you hated about your long gun registry? We're as prepared as you are. Arsenal is stocked. The difference is our definition of ready. Ready for what? Gun violence? We barely have any. Why is that? We scrapped it because it was a waste of burocracy, tax payer money and we didn't need it. The only thing we register is pistols and you need another allowance on your FAC (we need a license to own, in our name) to own and use them. We can't carry in public, spaces and why? For what? It's pointless. We have very little gun violence. The thing I want to know is why do you think that is?
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 5, 2024 3:18:31 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2016 23:37:23 GMT
Being prepared is not the same as being afraid. What was it that you hated about your long gun registry? We're as prepared as you are. Arsenal is stocked. The difference is our definition of ready. Ready for what? Gun violence? We barely have any. Why is that? We scrapped it because it was a waste of burocracy, tax payer money and we didn't need it. The only thing we register is pistols and you need another allowance on your FAC (we need a license to own, in our name) to own and use them. We can't carry in public, spaces and why? For what? It's pointless. We have very little gun violence. That's kind of like saying we don't have as many hammers here anymore, so now our hammer violence is down. I was simply addressing your idea... "People with a fear that something is lurking and the potential for their life to be in danger to the point that they feel the only remedy is to carry." People don't carry because they live in fear.
|
|
|
Post by JBeans on Jun 21, 2016 23:48:43 GMT
We're as prepared as you are. Arsenal is stocked. The difference is our definition of ready. Ready for what? Gun violence? We barely have any. Why is that? We scrapped it because it was a waste of burocracy, tax payer money and we didn't need it. The only thing we register is pistols and you need another allowance on your FAC (we need a license to own, in our name) to own and use them. We can't carry in public, spaces and why? For what? It's pointless. We have very little gun violence. That's kind of like saying we don't have as many hammers here anymore, so now our hammer violence is down. I was simply addressing your idea... "People with a fear that something is lurking and the potential for their life to be in danger to the point that they feel the only remedy is to carry." People don't carry because they live in fear. No. It's Like saying our gun culture is very different from yours. You live in fear or you're too proud not to carry. Be ready for what? And like I said, we have plenty of guns to go round here.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 5, 2024 3:18:31 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2016 23:52:11 GMT
Thanks for posting this. I had a thing come through my FB with the ones who voted against the two bills yesterday, but I couldn't figure out how to post it. It blows my mind how the Republicans, with the exception of a couple, think it's ok to sell a gun to somebody on a terrorist watch list! And, shame on those few Democrats that think it's ok also! I guess common sense isn't common any more. Crazy! And, there should be background checks on everybody. I am not against guns, and I know that criminals will get them anyway, but for these votes to go the way they did just shows how many pockets the NRA is in. Disgusting! ETA: the ban on assault weapons needs to be put in place again. The only people who should have them are law enforcement and the military. I have no clue how they would accomplish this at this point. It blows my mind that you and so many others think that's what they did. Could it have something to do with not wanting to take away people's rights based on a list that is so full of inaccuracies?
|
|
suzastampin
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,587
Jun 28, 2014 14:32:59 GMT
|
Post by suzastampin on Jun 22, 2016 0:41:11 GMT
Thanks for posting this. I had a thing come through my FB with the ones who voted against the two bills yesterday, but I couldn't figure out how to post it. It blows my mind how the Republicans, with the exception of a couple, think it's ok to sell a gun to somebody on a terrorist watch list! And, shame on those few Democrats that think it's ok also! I guess common sense isn't common any more. Crazy! And, there should be background checks on everybody. I am not against guns, and I know that criminals will get them anyway, but for these votes to go the way they did just shows how many pockets the NRA is in. Disgusting! ETA: the ban on assault weapons needs to be put in place again. The only people who should have them are law enforcement and the military. I have no clue how they would accomplish this at this point. It blows my mind that you and so many others think that's what they did. Could it have something to do with not wanting to take away people's rights based on a list that is so full of inaccuracies? Better to err on the side of caution, than hand every terrorist a gun. There's errors on the no fly list and somehow they seem to work it out.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 5, 2024 3:18:31 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2016 1:59:40 GMT
It blows my mind that you and so many others think that's what they did. Could it have something to do with not wanting to take away people's rights based on a list that is so full of inaccuracies? Better to err on the side of caution, than hand every terrorist a gun. There's errors on the no fly list and somehow they seem to work it out. I think it's better to get their shit together and do the NO Fly List right before they use it to take away innocent people's rights. The process to get off the no fly list has already been ruled unconstitutional.
|
|
Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
|
Post by Rainbow on Jun 22, 2016 10:44:18 GMT
I don't see anyone proposing anything to help the mentally ill get better care, to expand those programs. Why not do that? Don't act like nothing can be done because you didn't restrict gun rights. Why don't you call my Republican Governor and ask HIM why he shut down two of our mental health hospitals in the past year? Because of that assholian move, the cuts he made to our state Medicaid budget and privatizing our Medicaid (which upped the admin costs of the program by 300%), Iowa now stands close to the bottom of the US in mental health care. WTG Governor Branstad! Something your legacy can be so proud of.....asshole. It seems that the closing of mental hospitals has been a trend for years. Some think they are outdated and that they could be better served in their communities. Unfortunately that isn't always the case. I am for more hospitals. I've seen here how hard it is to get a bed in an urgent situation.
|
|
Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
|
Post by Rainbow on Jun 22, 2016 10:47:49 GMT
I don't really know what a "gun culture" is, so would you explain? I do know that the evil in people's hearts and minds needs to change and we do need a better mental health system. Rainbow, see the last post I quoted on this thread. I want to say it is on page 2 But because you are picking and choosing what you are looking at here it is again.... Quote likePost Options ilovecookies said:Rainbow is the perfect example of why it's important to seek information from as many credible sources as possible, to be open to (real) discussion with people of differing views, and how important it is to use critical thinking skills so that you don't give in to unreasonable fear and paranoia. Shrieking about freedom while living a life paralyzed by fear and filled with a steady stream of doom, gloom, and paranoia has got to be a really miserable existence. Then there's the irony. How "free" are you when all you can talk about is "defending your freedom" ? The FUD is working on her and it's sad. This is how I see the US gun fundamentalists. People with a fear that something is lurking and the potential for their life to be in danger to the point that they feel the only remedy is to carry. I mean, as Canadians, we have guns. We love our guns. We love our hunting. Our pistols. Our gun clubs. We hated our long gun registry so much we scrapped it. So, frankly, we loosened our gun laws. The difference is, we have no want to carry them. We don't feel this fear. Correct me if I am wrong, but I see this gun culture in the US revolve around year upon year of conditioning of two things. 1. Pride. Pride in arming oneself. Pride in such an easy ability to own a gun. Pride in the sense that guns are sexy. Special. Pride in power. Guns give you power. Pride that there is some chance you could be the hero because you have a gun. Pride that gun ownership defines you. 2. Fear. Fear that not having a gun will make you powerless. Fear that not having a gun makes you less free. Fear that danger is lurking everywhere. Fear that someone is out to get you. Fear that the only thing that can reasonably protect you is a gun. How do you even begin to change a culture that is based around pride and fear? There are an infinite reasons that someone may want a weapon. Unless they are evil and planning to kill a bunch of people I don't really see a need to change them.
|
|
Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
|
Post by Rainbow on Jun 22, 2016 10:55:31 GMT
Thanks for posting this. I had a thing come through my FB with the ones who voted against the two bills yesterday, but I couldn't figure out how to post it. It blows my mind how the Republicans, with the exception of a couple, think it's ok to sell a gun to somebody on a terrorist watch list! And, shame on those few Democrats that think it's ok also! I guess common sense isn't common any more. Crazy! And, there should be background checks on everybody. I am not against guns, and I know that criminals will get them anyway, but for these votes to go the way they did just shows how many pockets the NRA is in. Disgusting! ETA: the ban on assault weapons needs to be put in place again. The only people who should have them are law enforcement and the military. I have no clue how they would accomplish this at this point. There are big problems with the terror watch list (no fly list). The problem with stripping the rights of someone on the list is that there is no due process. That is a basic fundamental right in this country. Someone should have to prove that stripping the rights of someone else is necessary in court. The fact that anyone could arbitrarily be put on this list for any random reason and their rights violated should be very disturbing to everyone. Babies have been on the list. Have you seen an infant terrorist?
|
|
|
Post by JBeans on Jun 22, 2016 12:47:25 GMT
I'm waiting to hear the infinite reasons why one should carry in public. Some solid reasons would be great. If those reasons would not centre around concern for something, I'd love to hear it.
|
|