scrappinmama
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,019
Jun 26, 2014 12:54:09 GMT
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Post by scrappinmama on Jun 22, 2016 13:06:21 GMT
Thank you for posting that!
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Post by elaine on Jun 22, 2016 14:59:09 GMT
Both my senators voted YES for background checks, thank heaven. If only I had some clout to sway those who voted NO.
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Post by missmiss on Jun 22, 2016 14:59:48 GMT
See here is the thing about some guns becoming illegal. Will criminals still have them? The answer is yes.
Now when a criminal is caught with one that gun is now off the streets. As more criminals are caught with them there will be less of them. As there become less of them the black market price will become larger. When the black market price becomes larger the average criminal will not be able to buy them because the price will be to high.
Supply and Demand. Will it stop all criminals? Nope
But some lives will be saved by it.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 5, 2024 3:21:22 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2016 16:19:42 GMT
Both my senators voted YES for background checks, thank heaven. If only I had some clout to sway those who voted NO. You do-your vote. If enough people let them know this is an issue that matters, they'll listen. It won't do them any good to sit in the NRA's pocket if they're voted out of office.
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suzastampin
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,587
Jun 28, 2014 14:32:59 GMT
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Post by suzastampin on Jun 22, 2016 21:14:50 GMT
Better to err on the side of caution, than hand every terrorist a gun. There's errors on the no fly list and somehow they seem to work it out. I think it's better to get their shit together and do the NO Fly List right before they use it to take away innocent people's rights. The process to get off the no fly list has already been ruled unconstitutional. And how many more need to be killed while they are trying to get the perfect list?
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jun 22, 2016 23:39:09 GMT
See here is the thing about some guns becoming illegal. Will criminals still have them? The answer is yes. Now when a criminal is caught with one that gun is now off the streets. As more criminals are caught with them there will be less of them. As there become less of them the black market price will become larger. When the black market price becomes larger the average criminal will not be able to buy them because the price will be to high. Supply and Demand. Will it stop all criminals? Nope But some lives will be saved by it. Didn't work out that way for illegal drugs now did it?
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jun 22, 2016 23:40:35 GMT
I think it's better to get their shit together and do the NO Fly List right before they use it to take away innocent people's rights. The process to get off the no fly list has already been ruled unconstitutional. And how many more need to be killed while they are trying to get the perfect list? That's where mental health and changing hearts and minds comes in. The rights stay.
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Post by elaine on Jun 22, 2016 23:42:49 GMT
See here is the thing about some guns becoming illegal. Will criminals still have them? The answer is yes. Now when a criminal is caught with one that gun is now off the streets. As more criminals are caught with them there will be less of them. As there become less of them the black market price will become larger. When the black market price becomes larger the average criminal will not be able to buy them because the price will be to high. Supply and Demand. Will it stop all criminals? Nope But some lives will be saved by it. Didn't work out that way for illegal drugs now did it?Yeah, it has. Many more lives would have ended were drugs like heroin and meth legal and easy to buy. That is one of the stupider red herring comments you have made. Time to go fishing for a more sensible one.
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Post by elaine on Jun 22, 2016 23:43:32 GMT
And how many more need to be killed while they are trying to get the perfect list? That's where mental health and changing hearts and minds comes in. The rights stay.So your daughter can eat animal protein now? She's cured? As as long as she can't eat animal protein is as long as many mentally ill people won't be cured and shouldn't own guns.
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jun 23, 2016 0:21:00 GMT
Didn't work out that way for illegal drugs now did it? Yeah, it has. Many more lives would have ended were drugs like heroin and meth legal and easy to buy. That is one of the stupider red herring comments you have made. Time to go fishing for a more sensible one. Meth and heroin are very easy to get. Ridiculously easy to get.
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jun 23, 2016 0:22:22 GMT
That's where mental health and changing hearts and minds comes in. The rights stay. So your daughter can eat animal protein now? She's cured? As as long as she can't eat animal protein is as long as many mentally ill people won't be cured and shouldn't own guns. One has nothing to do with the other. You aren't even making sense.
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Post by JBeans on Jun 23, 2016 0:30:06 GMT
I'm still wondering some of the infinite reasons carrying a gun in populated spaces. Bonus points if reasons aren't based in concern.
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Jun 23, 2016 0:36:23 GMT
I think Americans would be surprised how many law-abiding citizens are carrying in populated areas. We will never know.
The problem is the nuts, the terrorists and the mentally ill. Banning law abiding citizens will have no impact on the nuts, the terrorists and the mentally ill killing people.
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Post by elaine on Jun 23, 2016 0:37:50 GMT
I think Americans would be surprised how many law-abiding citizens are carrying in populated areas. We will never know. The problem is the nuts, the terrorists and the mentally ill. Banning law abiding citizens will have no impact on the nuts, the terrorists and the mentally ill killing people. Hence the push for background checks, including for mental illness. Unlike what Rainbow is proposing.
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jun 23, 2016 0:38:47 GMT
I think Americans would be surprised how many law-abiding citizens are carrying in populated areas. We will never know. The problem is the nuts, the terrorists and the mentally ill. Banning law abiding citizens will have no impact on the nuts, the terrorists and the mentally ill killing people. This is why I like carrying concealed. No drama.
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Post by elaine on Jun 23, 2016 0:40:36 GMT
So your daughter can eat animal protein now? She's cured? As as long as she can't eat animal protein is as long as many mentally ill people won't be cured and shouldn't own guns. One has nothing to do with the other. You aren't even making sense.Most mental illness isn't "cured," making people with mental illness able to safely own guns. Just like your daughter won't be cured. The connection is clear to everyone but you. Some illnesses, including mental illnesses, aren't "cured" with a visit to a doctor. Many with illnesses suffer with them for the duration of their lifetimes, including your daughter, and many/most people with serious mental illnesses, i.e. those with illnesses that would preclude safely owning a gun, also will never be "cured" although they are being treated successfully enough to operate in society.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 5, 2024 3:21:22 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2016 1:00:03 GMT
I think it's better to get their shit together and do the NO Fly List right before they use it to take away innocent people's rights. The process to get off the no fly list has already been ruled unconstitutional. And how many more need to be killed while they are trying to get the perfect list? How many on that list have actually killed anyone here? They don't seem to be in any hurry to make it right for law abiding citizens. Make it so they can not use it to ban gun purchases and how fast will it become "the perfect list"?
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jun 23, 2016 5:57:09 GMT
One has nothing to do with the other. You aren't even making sense. Most mental illness isn't "cured," making people with mental illness able to safely own guns. Just like your daughter won't be cured. The connection is clear to everyone but you. Some illnesses, including mental illnesses, aren't "cured" with a visit to a doctor. Many with illnesses suffer with them for the duration of their lifetimes, including your daughter, and many/most people with serious mental illnesses, i.e. those with illnesses that would preclude safely owning a gun, also will never be "cured" although they are being treated successfully enough to operate in society. I haven't said anything about curing mental illness. I'm not sure where you got that idea from.
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Post by elaine on Jun 23, 2016 10:34:31 GMT
Most mental illness isn't "cured," making people with mental illness able to safely own guns. Just like your daughter won't be cured. The connection is clear to everyone but you. Some illnesses, including mental illnesses, aren't "cured" with a visit to a doctor. Many with illnesses suffer with them for the duration of their lifetimes, including your daughter, and many/most people with serious mental illnesses, i.e. those with illnesses that would preclude safely owning a gun, also will never be "cured" although they are being treated successfully enough to operate in society. I haven't said anything about curing mental illness. I'm not sure where you got that idea from.Then your cries for better mental health treatment as an alternative to background checks and other gun control legislation on all of these recent threads has absolutely nothing to do with the conversation. You keep proposing mental health treatment instead of passing legislation that ensures that the mentally ill don't get guns. If you aren't making the assumption that mental health treatment "cures" those with mental illness, thereby making them safe to own guns, then your argument has absolutely nothing to do with gun control discussions - it is a completely different topic with no bearing on the discussion at hand. Not that you ever throw out as many off-topic arguments as you can when threads aren't going your way.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 5, 2024 3:21:22 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2016 12:19:52 GMT
rainbow can I ask, if the government contacted you and said, give us a 5-10 point plan on how to administer the ownership of guns in the US, what would your points be? I've seen random comments as to what you are against but haven't been able to determine what it is you are for or think is sensible? Legitimate question above - no gotchas. I may have a second question later, but just wanted to hear your thoughts on the above first.
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Post by missmiss on Jun 23, 2016 13:17:54 GMT
See here is the thing about some guns becoming illegal. Will criminals still have them? The answer is yes. Now when a criminal is caught with one that gun is now off the streets. As more criminals are caught with them there will be less of them. As there become less of them the black market price will become larger. When the black market price becomes larger the average criminal will not be able to buy them because the price will be to high. Supply and Demand. Will it stop all criminals? Nope But some lives will be saved by it. Didn't work out that way for illegal drugs now did it?Well considering the average person can grow marijuana that would be hard to stop. Considering you can also make meth it as well would be hard to stop. Can the average person make an AR-15? Also would be hard to stop the war on drugs when the government has helped bring in those drugs. I also should state people are now able to easily build their own guns with 3d printers.
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Post by missmiss on Jun 23, 2016 13:27:25 GMT
I think Americans would be surprised how many law-abiding citizens are carrying in populated areas. We will never know. The problem is the nuts, the terrorists and the mentally ill. Banning law abiding citizens will have no impact on the nuts, the terrorists and the mentally ill killing people. This is why I like carrying concealed. No drama.When a law abiding citizen becomes a criminal. Generally people are law abiding until they break the law. fox43.com/2015/05/06/man-shot-in-the-face-during-road-rage-incident-in-warwick-township/
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Post by anxiousmom on Jun 23, 2016 14:02:29 GMT
It blows my mind that you and so many others think that's what they did. Could it have something to do with not wanting to take away people's rights based on a list that is so full of inaccuracies? Better to err on the side of caution, than hand every terrorist a gun. There's errors on the no fly list and somehow they seem to work it out. I am going to tiptoe into the watch list argument-and maybe surprise some people-but I am going to weigh in on the side that says until the list has a better system with clear cut procedures about who is placed on the list and a publicly available process of review to be taken off the list then I don't know if can be an accurate guideline. There have been issues and complaints about the no fly list since it's inception and up until recently it wasn't something most paid attention to. It was a knee jerk reaction to 9/11 and was not as well thought out as it should have been. If they can fix the gaps, have more clear set of guidelines for inclusion with a secondary review and evaluation process, have a comprehensive set of guidelines for outliers to be included (like the Orlando shooter) with secondary review and evaluation process (for oversight) and available access to a system (at no cost to the citizen) for removal, then maybe I will change my mind.
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jun 23, 2016 14:42:53 GMT
rainbow can I ask, if the government contacted you and said, give us a 5-10 point plan on how to administer the ownership of guns in the US, what would your points be? I've seen random comments as to what you are against but haven't been able to determine what it is you are for or think is sensible? Legitimate question above - no gotchas. I may have a second question later, but just wanted to hear your thoughts on the above first. What do you mean by administer ownership of guns? Dole them out? Like by the government?
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jun 23, 2016 14:45:10 GMT
Didn't work out that way for illegal drugs now did it? Well considering the average person can grow marijuana that would be hard to stop. Considering you can also make meth it as well would be hard to stop. Can the average person make an AR-15? Also would be hard to stop the war on drugs when the government has helped bring in those drugs. I also should state people are now able to easily build their own guns with 3d printers. It doesn't really matter how they get whatever it is, it's easy access.
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jun 23, 2016 14:47:06 GMT
That is how it works. People are considered to be law abiding until they break the law.
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Post by gypsymama on Jun 23, 2016 15:18:38 GMT
rainbow can I ask, if the government contacted you and said, give us a 5-10 point plan on how to administer the ownership of guns in the US, what would your points be? I've seen random comments as to what you are against but haven't been able to determine what it is you are for or think is sensible? Legitimate question above - no gotchas. I may have a second question later, but just wanted to hear your thoughts on the above first. What do you mean by administer ownership of guns? Dole them out? Like by the government?what do you gain from this obtuse act you love to perform?
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Post by missmiss on Jun 23, 2016 15:25:33 GMT
That is how it works. People are considered to be law abiding until they break the law. So I am supposed to trust citizens with guns when that wonderful road rage, or crazy attitude can make that "law abiding citizen" shoot someone and then we can call them a criminal.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 5, 2024 3:21:22 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2016 15:29:24 GMT
What do you mean by administer ownership of guns? Dole them out? Like by the government? what do you gain from this obtuse act you love to perform? Yes I was hoping for a convo but think I was a little naive and don't have the energy anymore.
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jun 23, 2016 16:20:22 GMT
That is how it works. People are considered to be law abiding until they break the law. So I am supposed to trust citizens with guns when that wonderful road rage, or crazy attitude can make that "law abiding citizen" shoot someone and then we can call them a criminal. I don't advise trusting anybody, you can't take their rights away because of that though.
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