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Post by DinCA on Jul 27, 2016 4:02:04 GMT
We need to cut military spending and more effectively manage the budget they do have. It's popular to complain about entitlements but very few people complain about the tremendous waste in the defense sector. It's disgusting that most of our active service members and veterans receive so little in exchange for their service while military contractors rake in hundreds of millions of dollars while failing to do their jobs properly or well. You're the one who said we need to cut military spending. Not me. I do agree with you on one point, however. We could do a better job of spending what is currently allocated. But I am opposed to the general statement "We need to cut military spending." We just need to be smarter because the troops are being shortchanged already.
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Jul 27, 2016 4:03:28 GMT
We need to cut military spending and more effectively manage the budget they do have. It's popular to complain about entitlements but very few people complain about the tremendous waste in the defense sector. It's disgusting that most of our active service members and veterans receive so little in exchange for their service while military contractors rake in hundreds of millions of dollars while failing to do their jobs properly or well. You're the one who said we need to cut military spending. Not me. I do agree with you on one point, however. We could do a better job of spending what is currently allocated. But I am opposed to the general statement "We need to cut military spending." We just need to be smarter because the troops are being shortchanged already. I said cut, as in reduce, not stop funding the military. I'm sorry you didn't understand that. We could easily reduce our spending by at least 10 - 20% if resources were properly being allocated. There is no need for the chicken little "any cuts to military spending will make us so unsafe" line that people like you trot out anytime anyone dares say our defense budget is bloated. We are not using our resources wisely. If the billions in the defense buffet don't keep us safe now, what makes you think throwing more money at the problem will solve it?
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Jul 27, 2016 4:04:06 GMT
Im sorry - I am certain this will sound high and mighty, and I don't intend that - but since when should every job be available to everyone? And for the jobs where a degree is not needed - going to college teaches many things, not just what a job entails. What I'm saying is that jobs 30 years ago that only required a high school diploma now require degrees. I'm not saying that people who don't have degrees deserve jobs that traditionally required degrees. A college degree used to open so many doors....that isn't the case anymore. Now, to get those doors opened you need an advanced degree. And what I am saying is "so what"? Thirty years ago, we paid for our tuition or we took loans that we paid back. We didn't cry about how we couldn't move on to other stages of our lives because we have student loans. I had student loans in the 70's and 80's. I paid back every dime. I again had student loans in 2005 when I obtained a second advanced degree. I paid back every dime even though I do not use the degree at all and despite the fact that the second set of loans was almost triple what I had back in the 80's. I borrowed the money, I made the choice to get the degree, it was my obligation to repay the loans; not anyone else's obligation and not the government's obligation. Many students didn't go to college 30 years ago and despite what you may believe, many students today do not go to college. In fact, many people who do not go to college earn more than the students coming out of college. We need to stop encouraging teens to look at college as four years of extended teenage-hood on someone else's dime. You see it all the time. And then, we see people going to graduate school and incurring even more loans because they don't really want to go into the work force or they have nothing better to do. I just shake my head at my dh's daughter. She's borrowing money to go to grad school in Canada to study medieval Spanish History. WTF??? We're not giving her any money and I sure as heck don't want my taxpayer dollars giving her money or forgiving these loans. This was a stupid choice on her part. My friend's son graduated law school and is now borrowing more money to go on to get an LLM. Again, it's not necessary to get this degree but he's convinced himself and his parents that he'll be able to write his own ticket when he gets out (probably not true) but again, as long as the rest of us don't have to pay for these decisions, I have no problem with him going. If he gets out of this post-doctorate program and finds he can't make enough to pay for almost 10 years of student loans and wants the government (Ie the taxpayer) to step in an pay or forgive them, then I have a very big problem. We need to stop footing the bill for stupidity, laziness and irresponsible actions by adults.
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 27, 2016 4:05:33 GMT
My two cents is if you paid no taxes in this year that means no refund. None of this getting thousands back when paying nothing in. I get some it's a wash - I can swallow that. But getting what I paid in back while not working or working minimally - not okay. I'm okay with childcare assistance as it allows people to get out and work. In fact, I think if you are applying for any benefits that should be given along with a swift get a job. No claims of not affording daycare and needing to stay home with 4 kids. Staying home is for those who can both afford it then choose to do so upon affording the option to stay home. I'm not an accountant, so I could be waaay off base here (and definitely a little utopian in my thinking), but what about allowing only the standard deduction and the standard exemption for each dependant and stop withthe deductions there? No deductinos for interest, medical costs, charitable expensese... no credits for children or dependant care or...that way everybody pays what they are supposed to.
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Post by DinCA on Jul 27, 2016 4:05:38 GMT
You're the one who said we need to cut military spending. Not me. I do agree with you on one point, however. We could do a better job of spending what is currently allocated. But I am opposed to the general statement "We need to cut military spending." We just need to be smarter because the troops are being shortchanged already. I said cut, as in reduce, not stop funding the military. I'm sorry you didn't understand that. I do understand that. And I did the first time. I'm not trying to be argumentative. What I'm saying is that we cannot afford a reduction of any kind at this point. Smarter spending, yes, of course. SaveSave
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lindas
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,151
Jun 26, 2014 5:46:37 GMT
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Post by lindas on Jul 27, 2016 4:08:13 GMT
Who said anything about defunding the military? This kind of knee jerk reaction is one of the reasons our defense budget is so bloated. We need to ensure that the billions of dollars that go to the military are properly used. Do you realize that contractors grow fat and wealthy at the expense of our safety and the safety and well being of our service members? There is a huge difference between abolishing military spending and expecting the money that is spent to go to actually keeping us and our military members safe. I'd like to see them finish building the damn VA hospital in Denver. Somehow it got too big for its britches and has gone so far over budget it is pathetic and it keeps getting delayed due to needing more funding some of the costs special brazillian wood marble and granite throughout $10 million dollars for landscaping (this has been cut) a stupid ass aesthetically pleasing (to whom I don't know) design glass and steel So many others. This project needs to be done. WE need the VA hospital. It didn't have to cost this much and now it is costing even more. We are in the billions at this point for a hospital. That's disgusting since the only thing the vets care about is just having a hospital and being able to get to see a dr without waiting 6 months. My DH is a disabled vet so this is a hot topic for me.
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Post by DinCA on Jul 27, 2016 4:08:46 GMT
A good start would be putting the masive amounts of money spent on these campaigns to work for the American people instead. Yeah, like that's going to happen. Isn't that the truth!!! SaveSave
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Jul 27, 2016 4:09:11 GMT
My two cents is if you paid no taxes in this year that means no refund. None of this getting thousands back when paying nothing in. I get some it's a wash - I can swallow that. But getting what I paid in back while not working or working minimally - not okay. I'm okay with childcare assistance as it allows people to get out and work. In fact, I think if you are applying for any benefits that should be given along with a swift get a job. No claims of not affording daycare and needing to stay home with 4 kids. Staying home is for those who can both afford it then choose to do so upon affording the option to stay home. I'm not an accountant, so I could be waaay off base here (and definitely a little utopian in my thinking), but what about allowing only the standard deduction and the standard exemption for each dependant and stop withthe deductions there? No deductinos for interest, medical costs, charitable expensese... no credits for children or dependant care or...that way everybody pays what they are supposed to. I'm firmly in favor of a flat tax. No exemptions, no deductions. Everybody (and I mean everybody) pays the same tax rate on their income, including the 49% who currently pay nothing.
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 27, 2016 4:11:54 GMT
A good start would be putting the masive amounts of money spent on these campaigns to work for the American people instead. Yeah, like that's going to happen. None of those politcal flyer things that show up in my mailbox whether for or against a candidate or a proposal or whatever are going to change my mind. Save the money and the trees and do something else with it.
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Post by secondlife on Jul 27, 2016 4:12:25 GMT
A good start would be putting the masive amounts of money spent on these campaigns to work for the American people instead. Yeah, like that's going to happen. None of those politcal flyer things that show up in my mailbox whether for or against a candidate or a proposal or whatever are going to change my mind. Save the money and the trees and do something else with it. I'll co-sign that one.
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Jul 27, 2016 4:13:17 GMT
A good start would be putting the masive amounts of money spent on these campaigns to work for the American people instead. Yeah, like that's going to happen. None of those politcal flyer things that show up in my mailbox whether for or against a candidate or a proposal or whatever are going to change my mind. Save the money and the trees and do something else with it. Right? They go straight from my mailbox into the large garbage pail outside. They never even make it into the door of my house.
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Post by mom on Jul 27, 2016 4:15:05 GMT
Im sorry - I am certain this will sound high and mighty, and I don't intend that - but since when should every job be available to everyone? And for the jobs where a degree is not needed - going to college teaches many things, not just what a job entails. What you basically just said is, since when should financial and career success be available to everyone? No, this is not what I said. I said that some jobs shouldn't be available to everyone. If you don't have a degree or are qualified for a particular job, then you shouldn't get upset that those who do have a degree and/or are qualified to get that job. The idea that everyone is equal on every playing field is crazy.
Right after you said, we should be looking to ourselves for solutions. And I don't think that works. College opens doors. I think if we don't look at how to make college affordable and effective we run the very real risk of closing off success for those without the means to get those doors open, perpetuating a cycle in which those with financial means are more able to further obtain success than those without. I grew up poor as dirt in rural Appalachia. My husband did too. The only way we achieved anything is by going to college. The only way we went to college is with grants and loans. Of course every job should have been open to younger us, with a whole life full of possibilities waiting. We had potential, we had ability - and we had disadvantages. I'm not saying our education should have been free. Just that it should be affordable for all the kids just like us who fought tooth and nail to get anywhere in life. If success isn't open to every person who has the fortitude to work for it then that is not what I think this country should be.
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scorpeao
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,521
Location: NorCal USA
Jun 25, 2014 21:04:54 GMT
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Post by scorpeao on Jul 27, 2016 4:17:23 GMT
What I'm saying is that jobs 30 years ago that only required a high school diploma now require degrees. I'm not saying that people who don't have degrees deserve jobs that traditionally required degrees. A college degree used to open so many doors....that isn't the case anymore. Now, to get those doors opened you need an advanced degree. And what I am saying is "so what"? Thirty years ago, we paid for our tuition or we took loans that we paid back. We didn't cry about how we couldn't move on to other stages of our lives because we have student loans. I had student loans in the 70's and 80's. I paid back every dime. I again had student loans in 2005 when I obtained a second advanced degree. I paid back every dime even though I do not use the degree at all. I borrowed the money, I made the choice to get the degree, it was my obligation to repay the loans; not anyone else's obligation and not the government's obligation. Many students didn't go to college 30 years ago and despite what you may believe, many students today do not go to college. In fact, many people who do not go to college earn more than the students coming out of college. We need to stop encouraging teens to look at college as four years of extended teenage-hood on someone else's dime. You see it all the time. And then, we see people going to graduate school and incurring even more loans because they don't really want to go into the work force or they have nothing better to do. I just shake my head at my dh's daughter. She's borrowing money to go to grad school in Canada to study medieval Spanish History. WTF??? We're not giving her any money and I sure as heck don't want my taxpayer dollars giving her money or forgiving these loans. This was a stupid choice on her part. My friend's son graduated law school and is now borrowing more money to go on to get an LLM. Again, it's not necessary to get this degree but he's convinced himself and his parents that he'll be able to write his own ticket when he gets out (probably not true) but again, as long as the rest of us don't have to pay for these decisions, I have no problem with him going. If he gets out of this post-doctorate program and finds he can't make enough to pay for almost 10 years of student loans and wants the government (Ie the taxpayer) to step in an pay or forgive them, then I have a very big problem. We need to stop footing the bill for stupidity, laziness and irresponsible actions by adults. I hear what you are saying and some of it I agree. I instilled in my dd that she was to go to college. She decided she wanted to major in film, and I said that's fine, but you better double major because I'm not paying for a film degree. She then decided she would join the Navy. She picked a job that would be marketable job skill when she got out, and she plans on attending college, ironically on YOUR dime, to get a film degree. I think you have a bigger issue with the parent of these kids than the children themselves. Furthermore, I work at a university, and while some of the kids have a sense of entitlement, it's rare. I have yet to hear one student say they don't think they should have to pay their student loans back. What I DO hear is that they don't like the cost of tuition. And it's not fair to say that 40 years ago you paid back your loans. Take a look at what your tuition was compared to the minimum wage, and how many hours you had to work to pay it off. It's not equitable these days. College should be affordable and not for the elite.
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Post by jamielynn on Jul 27, 2016 4:20:30 GMT
My two cents is if you paid no taxes in this year that means no refund. None of this getting thousands back when paying nothing in. I get some it's a wash - I can swallow that. But getting what I paid in back while not working or working minimally - not okay. I'm okay with childcare assistance as it allows people to get out and work. In fact, I think if you are applying for any benefits that should be given along with a swift get a job. No claims of not affording daycare and needing to stay home with 4 kids. Staying home is for those who can both afford it then choose to do so upon affording the option to stay home. I'm not an accountant, so I could be waaay off base here (and definitely a little utopian in my thinking), but what about allowing only the standard deduction and the standard exemption for each dependant and stop withthe deductions there? No deductinos for interest, medical costs, charitable expensese... no credits for children or dependant care or...that way everybody pays what they are supposed to. I truly can't respond on this as I'm not well educated in how all those things work. That said, not everyone qualifies on the other end to even get a dependent tax credit or credit for childcare paid. For many of those people the only way to get any kind of kickback for kids is the $5,000 pre tax they can get in total for the entire family per year. Isnt the average value of that dependent care account something like $1,600? I have many friends with multiple children paying far more than that per month.
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Post by mom on Jul 27, 2016 4:21:00 GMT
I agree, college should be affordable.
So lets get rid of the football teams, the basketball teams and any other non-essential money sucker in colleges.
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 27, 2016 4:23:00 GMT
I'm not an accountant, so I could be waaay off base here (and definitely a little utopian in my thinking), but what about allowing only the standard deduction and the standard exemption for each dependant and stop withthe deductions there? No deductinos for interest, medical costs, charitable expensese... no credits for children or dependant care or...that way everybody pays what they are supposed to. I truly can't respond on this as I'm not well educated in how all those things work. That said, not everyone qualifies on the other end to even get a dependent tax credit or credit for childcare paid. For many of those people the only way to get any kind of kickback for kids is the $5,000 pre tax they can get in total for the entire family per year. Isnt the average value of that dependent care account something like $1,600? I have many friends with multiple children paying far more than that per month. I was thinking the credits. If we were going to get rid of the deductions, then I feel we should get rid of the credits. I think you are talking about the opportunity to have money pulled from your paycheck for childcare expenses, like the FSA for medical expenses. I don't have a proble with those. They are kind of like the pretax 401k dollars.
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Post by secondlife on Jul 27, 2016 4:24:08 GMT
I agree, college should be affordable. So lets get rid of the football teams, the basketball teams and any other non-essential money sucker in colleges. At many colleges, the football team brings in enough revenue to pay for itself plus all the other athletic programs including scholarships for other athletes. for example, at my DH's university, football pays for the entire athletic department. That program literally funds scholarships for the girls' track team and the golf team and all the rest. And I think football is annoying as hell so it's not like I'm a fangirl defending my favorite team.
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 27, 2016 4:25:45 GMT
I agree, college should be affordable. So lets get rid of the football teams, the basketball teams and any other non-essential money sucker in colleges. In many, many schools the sports teams are not money suckers at all and actually are self-sufficient or bring in money. Many donors donate to universities based on their teams. There is a wall at Memorial Stadium (Nebraska) that has the donors engraved. Some of them have donated millions of dollars to the school.
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Jul 27, 2016 4:27:06 GMT
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Post by mom on Jul 27, 2016 4:27:39 GMT
I agree, college should be affordable. So lets get rid of the football teams, the basketball teams and any other non-essential money sucker in colleges. At many colleges, the football team brings in enough revenue to pay for itself plus all the other athletic programs including scholarships for other athletes. for example, at my DH's university, football pays for the entire athletic department. That program literally funds scholarships for the girls' track team and the golf team and all the rest. And I think football is annoying as hell so it's not like I'm a fangirl defending my favorite team. But what about the schools where this isn't happening? Especially at smaller schools?
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Jul 27, 2016 4:30:47 GMT
Sadly, collegiate sports is big business. The players get free tuition, cars and stipends. The universities make big bucks off the players and the teams. That's not going to change.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jul 27, 2016 4:32:57 GMT
if all the other highly developed countries in the world have child care, health care, etc. we can do it too. we can tax ourselves and pay for it. we have the biggest economic engine in the world. heck..cut the military bands in half. somehow do we need an army larger than all other combine? we need to rethink what we are spending money on. maybe if we had medicare for all..it would save all that money spent on profit. we can pay for it if we are willing to make sure all americans have a certain level of support. You can do most of that if you trade your freedoms - freedom to choose where you live, freedom to decide how many children you have, freedom to choose where your children go to school, freedom to choose your own occupation - and submit to becoming a socialist country. But if you don't build that military back up, you won't even have that choice. Our enemies aren't going stop trying to murder our most innocent citizens in the most horrific ways they are able and just sit back and watch reruns of The Fresh Prince of the Middle East because we strip down our ability to defend ourselves.
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Jul 27, 2016 4:34:46 GMT
if all the other highly developed countries in the world have child care, health care, etc. we can do it too. we can tax ourselves and pay for it. we have the biggest economic engine in the world. heck..cut the military bands in half. somehow do we need an army larger than all other combine? we need to rethink what we are spending money on. maybe if we had medicare for all..it would save all that money spent on profit. we can pay for it if we are willing to make sure all americans have a certain level of support. You can do most of that if you trade your freedoms - freedom to choose where you live, freedom to decide how many children you have, freedom to choose where your children go to school, freedom to choose your own occupation - and submit to becoming a socialist country. But if you don't build that military back up, you won't even have that choice. Our enemies aren't going stop trying to murder our most innocent citizens in the most horrific ways they are able and just sit back and watch reruns of The Fresh Prince of the Middle East because we strip down our ability to defend ourselves. Do you remember the court in either Norway or Denmark refusing to allow people to name their babies if the names were not condoned? Can you imagine the outrage of people here were told they couldn't name their child some odd-ball name.? And yes, there are some real odd-ball names in this country. My friend teaches a student named "Jermajesty". LOL
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Post by leftturnonly on Jul 27, 2016 4:35:06 GMT
Take Donald's wall for example - he is telling his voters his philosophy is to shut out Mexicans. You do realize that radical terrorists from the other side of the world would be shut out as well, don't you? It doesn't seem like it from your words.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jul 27, 2016 4:44:32 GMT
And on that note, I do think the possibility of a free college education is possible. After all public schools are free so why can't that be extended to the college level somehow. Not saying it would be easy but the precedent of free education is not completely foreign at least. I'm assuming Donald thinks a wall is also not impossible given China has a big one that was built for the purposes of exclusion. I don't see how it would be possible. I live in Delaware and we have several colleges here but I'll just use the Univ of DE as an example. The president has a salary of $735,000, there are 388 professors making an average of $142,000 a year plus all the associate professors, staff, etc. This is just one small college, how much are our taxes going to have to go up to pay for this because I don't think these professors are going to go for a big pay cut. Go Blue Hens!
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Post by leftturnonly on Jul 27, 2016 4:48:40 GMT
You can do most of that if you trade your freedoms - freedom to choose where you live, freedom to decide how many children you have, freedom to choose where your children go to school, freedom to choose your own occupation - and submit to becoming a socialist country. But if you don't build that military back up, you won't even have that choice. Our enemies aren't going stop trying to murder our most innocent citizens in the most horrific ways they are able and just sit back and watch reruns of The Fresh Prince of the Middle East because we strip down our ability to defend ourselves. Do you remember the court in either Norway or Denmark refusing to allow people to name their babies if the names were not condoned? Can you imagine the outrage of people here were told they couldn't name their child some odd-ball name.? And yes, there are some real odd-ball names in this country. My friend teaches a student named "Jermajesty". LOL Denmark Worldwide Naming Laws
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Post by DinCA on Jul 27, 2016 4:54:28 GMT
Take Donald's wall for example - he is telling his voters his philosophy is to shut out Mexicans. You do realize that radical terrorists from the other side of the world would be shut out as well, don't you? It doesn't seem like it from your words. I'd like for there to be a wall but I would be just as happy if our current laws were upheld: Please come to our country legally. Don't be a sanctuary city for illegals. Deport illegals who have committed felonies. For me the wall is symbolic. I lock my doors. I don't want people to enter my home at will. I think most of us feel that way, if we're honest. So why shouldn't we expect that for our country. If you want to come here for a better life, then please come legally. But if you hate us and want to kill us, don't expect us to leave the door open. SaveSaveSaveSave
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 27, 2016 4:57:13 GMT
if all the other highly developed countries in the world have child care, health care, etc. we can do it too. we can tax ourselves and pay for it. we have the biggest economic engine in the world. heck..cut the military bands in half. somehow do we need an army larger than all other combine? we need to rethink what we are spending money on. maybe if we had medicare for all..it would save all that money spent on profit. we can pay for it if we are willing to make sure all americans have a certain level of support. You can do most of that if you trade your freedoms - freedom to choose where you live, freedom to decide how many children you have, freedom to choose where your children go to school, freedom to choose your own occupation - and submit to becoming a socialist country. But if you don't build that military back up, you won't even have that choice. Our enemies aren't going stop trying to murder our most innocent citizens in the most horrific ways they are able and just sit back and watch reruns of The Fresh Prince of the Middle East because we strip down our ability to defend ourselves. my cousin lives and teaches in Japan. He lives their system which seems very socialist. It sounds great, they have free health care, 1 year post natal leave (can't remember if it is paid or not), the husband gets leave too, but not as long...there is a huge list he loves. And I think it works there because the society is fairly homogeneous. The same values are taught, the same expectations are expected, the... Not here. We are far from homogeneous. Different areas, religions, families value different things.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jul 27, 2016 4:59:47 GMT
you cut the military in half and you could still defend our country. Maybe you could defend part of our country. Which states would you like to keep and which ones are you willing to let go?
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 5, 2024 4:56:00 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2016 5:07:55 GMT
Take Donald's wall for example - he is telling his voters his philosophy is to shut out Mexicans. You do realize that radical terrorists from the other side of the world would be shut out as well, don't you? It doesn't seem like it from your words. What you might have got from my words was me answering the OPs question about paying for promises. My words weren't about the purpose and effectiveness of walls. On the purpose of the wall though, from Donald's website, he says it will be in place to prevent Mexicans from entering and taking healthcare, education, housing, welfare and committing crime. Unless Mexicans are now terrorists as well as rapists and murders? www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/immigration-reformRegarding your statement to stop radical terrorists from the other side of the world, maybe there should be a dome built as well and ISIS can pay for that.
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