scorpeao
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,521
Location: NorCal USA
Jun 25, 2014 21:04:54 GMT
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Post by scorpeao on Jul 27, 2016 14:15:20 GMT
As an employer who does hiring, I require candidates to have a college degree. Why? Because getting through high school these days is as simple as showing up. Schools pass kids through, and kids graduate. The people who have gone on to college show some sort of determination, some personal growth, and want more in life. Those are the employees I want showing up to work daily. Until this mindset (not picking on you Kelly, I think this is commonplace among employers everywhere) changes everyone will need, or feel the need, to go to college. I know my husband has basically forced me back to college for this exact reason. If I ever need/want to work outside the home again I'll have a hard time getting anything paying more than $10/hr without a degree. I don't want to be in college at 40, but since I didn't go at 20 I don't really have a choice. And this is the point I'm arguing. There's so much "not everyone should go to college," but essentially kelly's mentality, and most other employers aside from retail or food service, is what is driving everyone to college. There aren't many opportunities to make much more than minimum wage without a college degree...not like it used to be. Yes, I realize there are plenty of trades that don't require college, but really, was anyone going to hire my dd to be a journeyman plumber, electrician, etc? Other trades require schooling that require a hefty price tag for jobs that don't pay much more than minimum wage. Kids today are damned if they do and damned if they don't.
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kelly8875
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,390
Location: Lost in my supplies...
Oct 26, 2014 17:02:56 GMT
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Post by kelly8875 on Jul 27, 2016 14:25:51 GMT
As an employer who does hiring, I require candidates to have a college degree. Why? Because getting through high school these days is as simple as showing up. Schools pass kids through, and kids graduate. The people who have gone on to college show some sort of determination, some personal growth, and want more in life. Those are the employees I want showing up to work daily. Until this mindset (not picking on you Kelly, I think this is commonplace among employers everywhere) changes everyone will need, or feel the need, to go to college. I know my husband has basically forced me back to college for this exact reason. If I ever need/want to work outside the home again I'll have a hard time getting anything paying more than $10/hr without a degree. I don't want to be in college at 40, but since I didn't go at 20 I don't really have a choice. Now, I will add, that if I see someone has years and years of work experience that is relevant to my open position, I do consider that time worked. But young candidates have to show me some drive and college is what I look for. My most recent hire has 20+ years of work experience, and put herself through online college. She's a go-getter. I liked her work experience enough alone, but the extra determination to get college in put her over the top for the position.
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kelly8875
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,390
Location: Lost in my supplies...
Oct 26, 2014 17:02:56 GMT
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Post by kelly8875 on Jul 27, 2016 14:29:56 GMT
Yes, it's paid. When they're working, they're paid. A pre-apprentice starts at $14/hour with no skills. They show they can grow, apply for the program, and can easily get in. Pay raises are every 6 months! The only time they aren't paid, is when they're at "school" for a week or two taking classes. But, if they've been working for our company and in good standing, they can draw unemployment for that time uncontested. Without the classes, they won't advance. "When they are working" is key here; one of my cousins is an apprentice millwright. He has endured long stretches of unemployment because there is no work for him. Nothing is guaranteed, but I don't think reality is quite as peachy as you're painting it. Well, for our company, there are MANY times in the year we can't man jobs because we need more Millwrights. Our regular employees are kept busy, because we trust them, they're dependable, and have skills. We are also the largest millwright company in the tri-state area, so that could be the major difference for my point of view.
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Post by DinCA on Jul 27, 2016 14:34:41 GMT
Until this mindset (not picking on you Kelly, I think this is commonplace among employers everywhere) changes everyone will need, or feel the need, to go to college. I know my husband has basically forced me back to college for this exact reason. If I ever need/want to work outside the home again I'll have a hard time getting anything paying more than $10/hr without a degree. I don't want to be in college at 40, but since I didn't go at 20 I don't really have a choice. And this is the point I'm arguing. There's so much "not everyone should go to college," but essentially kelly's mentality, and most other employers aside from retail or food service, is what is driving everyone to college. There aren't many opportunities to make much more than minimum wage without a college degree...not like it used to be. Yes, I realize there are plenty of trades that don't require college, but really, was anyone going to hire my dd to be a journeyman plumber, electrician, etc? Other trades require schooling that require a hefty price tag for jobs that don't pay much more than minimum wage. Kids today are damned if they do and damned if they don't. You're right. It is harder for girls who don't have an interest in college. There are some options, though. For instance, my manicurist has a Masters degree in teaching and is a few short credits away from a law degree and she makes more money doing nails. I'm not kidding. SaveSave
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,968
Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
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Post by AnotherPea on Jul 27, 2016 15:31:42 GMT
Are apprenticeships still a thing? I admit I have no idea. I do know I have concerns about the profusion of private, for-profit colleges that want to train kids to be plumbers and welders at tuition rates that rival the costs of four-year universities. There needs to be affordable, public institutions where people can learn those skills - and maybe there are, but I don't see them advertised like the expensive ones. My family business is Union. We are Union Millwrights, with a full 4 year apprenticeship program. There is hands on learning, classes, and requires steps to become a Journeyman. A Journeyman in our area earns at least $25/hours. Stick with it a little, show your worth, and you can earn more above that as a foreman or Master Millwright. Several of our guys make over $100,000 a year...sounds like a great career path of you ask me! But can we find enough people to hire? Nope. wn the trades. Because schools only talk college and talk down the trades. Our community college is working hard with area schools these days to show that the trades are valid career paths. Without these trade workers, we will be without employees who put this world together. They are just as important as doctors and lawyers and teachers.Please don't say this - it simply is not true. Schools work hard to make sure students graduate with opportunity. Whether it be college, trade school, jobs or the military.
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Post by rebelyelle on Jul 27, 2016 15:48:30 GMT
My family business is Union. We are Union Millwrights, with a full 4 year apprenticeship program. There is hands on learning, classes, and requires steps to become a Journeyman. A Journeyman in our area earns at least $25/hours. Stick with it a little, show your worth, and you can earn more above that as a foreman or Master Millwright. Several of our guys make over $100,000 a year...sounds like a great career path of you ask me! But can we find enough people to hire? Nope. Because schools only talk college and talk down the trades. Our community college is working hard with area schools these days to show that the trades are valid career paths. Without these trade workers, we will be without employees who put this world together. They are just as important as doctors and lawyers and teachers. That is good to know. Is the four-year apprenticeship program unpaid? How does that work? Sorry for my ignorance. My brother (23-year old) just finished his formal apprenticeship in plumbing. It was 4 years. If I recall correctly, the first year was very course-based, the second year was a balance between courses and work, and the last 2 years were full-time work plus evening classes. He worked the entire time, but I believe he was only required to have plumbing work the last two years. I know his first year he worked in a completely unrelated field, and only joined a plumbing company in year 2. I can ask him if you're interested. After 4 years, he's making an excellent income for a kid his age. He also said that there were men in his program who were 10-20 years older than him graduating with plumbing degrees because it was the best way for them to better their careers at that age. He's even talking about opening up his own business in a couple of years, and there is no shortage of work in my hometown. I'm actually trying to encourage him to move down where I live in the DC area because I think he would make a killing.
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Post by rebelyelle on Jul 27, 2016 15:55:08 GMT
Yes, it's paid. When they're working, they're paid. A pre-apprentice starts at $14/hour with no skills. They show they can grow, apply for the program, and can easily get in. Pay raises are every 6 months! The only time they aren't paid, is when they're at "school" for a week or two taking classes. But, if they've been working for our company and in good standing, they can draw unemployment for that time uncontested. Without the classes, they won't advance. "When they are working" is key here; one of my cousins is an apprentice millwright. He has endured long stretches of unemployment because there is no work for him. Nothing is guaranteed, but I don't think reality is quite as peachy as you're painting it. I have to agree with this. I have another brother who is a general contractor and specializes in custom windows. He goes through periods of unemployment yearly, and I know it's taken him awhile to get accustomed to the ebb and flow of his chosen work. He's working 60+ hours a week in the spring and summer, and barely scraping by in the winter. It all depends on the trade. I think my other brother made a very wise choice with plumbing, because it's very consistent. It also depends on the area where you live, and how much your trade if affected by the economy. People will always need plumbers - always. Custom windows are a luxury.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Jul 27, 2016 16:04:07 GMT
My DH and I have had a similar discussion numerous times over the last six years. I've been a small business owner for the past 20 years, and have been DH's part time bookkeeper/office assistant on and off for about half that time as well. I've more or less taken time away from my business as needed to care for my mom and his mom before they both died, and to have our DD and be here for her. Needless to say, I'm not making as much money as I probably could be at this stage of my life.
I went to college but didn't graduate because the school discontinued my major when I was halfway through the program and didn't give me the option to finish (I did however pay back all of my loans). Because I don't have a degree, there are many employers that won't even look at me for open positions. Even though I have the necessary skills, I don't have the paper to prove it.
DH seems to think that I should be able to go right out and get a $25-30 an hour job, but I just don't see how that could happen. I've had to explain to him that by my calculation, I could probably get about $15 an hour where we live as a bank teller, a retail supervisor or something similar with my work experience and the education I do have. I'm almost 50, have a bad back and arthritis so anything of a very physical nature is automatically out.
By the time I bought clothes for a new job (I live in jeans and t-shirts now), pay for gas to and from the workplace and childcare, pay for childcare before and after school and full time over the summer months for DD and pay income tax on what I do make, everything I earn would be burned up by the expenses incurred just to have that job. Not to mention I would have to work nights, weekends and holidays which would severely cramp the upper middle class suburban lifestyle he already enjoys. Plus, all of those jobs now are tied to sales quotas, so if I didn't meet the conversion targets I would probably end up getting canned anyway. Even cashiers at Target have to sell people credit cards these days. It never ends.
The whole situation is all very sobering when I stop to think about it. I'm just glad I'm not in a position where needing to work outside the home right now is my reality.
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Post by karen on Jul 27, 2016 16:26:33 GMT
My family business is Union. We are Union Millwrights, with a full 4 year apprenticeship program. There is hands on learning, classes, and requires steps to become a Journeyman. A Journeyman in our area earns at least $25/hours. Stick with it a little, show your worth, and you can earn more above that as a foreman or Master Millwright. Several of our guys make over $100,000 a year...sounds like a great career path of you ask me! But can we find enough people to hire? Nope. wn the trades. Because schools only talk college and talk down the trades. Our community college is working hard with area schools these days to show that the trades are valid career paths. Without these trade workers, we will be without employees who put this world together. They are just as important as doctors and lawyers and teachers.Please don't say this - it simply is not true. Schools work hard to make sure students graduate with opportunity. Whether it be college, trade school, jobs or the military. My district quit teaching a lot of vocational classes that they used to offer because they want the students to go to college. It's sad, but true.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jul 27, 2016 16:26:40 GMT
I do know I have concerns about the profusion of private, for-profit colleges that want to train kids to be plumbers and welders at tuition rates that rival the costs of four-year universities. There needs to be affordable, public institutions where people can learn those skills - and maybe there are, but I don't see them advertised like the expensive ones. This is one of my biggest, stand up on a soap box and scream to the heavens issues. You should be concerned-those for profit schools are a big problem. The latest statistic that I read is that is that 30% (give or take) of all student loans are given to students at those type schools and that those 30% are responsible for almost 60% of student loan defaults. The majority of those school are subpar, prey on the weak, and in some cases charge for a two year "degree" what a state college charges for a four year degree including costs associated with housing. A second insult occurs when some of those students decide they want to further their education and they learn that not only do their credits not transfer to an accredited college degree program, but in many cases have capped out their grant dollar amounts and are only eligible for more loans. It is HUGELY concerning. ^^^ some of those for-profit schools are working with the 'welfare-to-work' people to quote-unquote educate people to get them off the welfare rolls, as well... so those people, who in many cases already have many factors stacked against them (in terms of living arrangements, no reliable transportation, possibly small children who need care, no income, etc.) go to these schools to get a cosmetology certification, dental hygienist certification, etc. as part of receiving their benefits, and then they incur larger-than-necessary debt in the process which they may or may not be able to pay off later. But hey, they have to 'get to work, right?' and this is one of the ways that states are allowed to use their TANF funds under the " Reduce the dependency of needy parents by promoting job preparation, work and marriage" header. (There is a VERY well-done series of stories that have been broadcast recently during Marketplace Money on NPR- I've heard a few of them- related to TANF, from "the Uncertain Hour" podcast; it's been very educational and enlightening.)
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Post by sunraynnc on Jul 27, 2016 16:33:21 GMT
Even if they taxed that those rich 1% folks at the rate of 100% (meaning every dime confiscated from the 1%), it still wouldn't pay for what they are promising. YES! Let's talk about that rich 1%. It's $383,000. That's not "private jet" rich. That's comfortable in most parts of the country. The top 10% are $143,000 as a family. Look it up. The top 20% in America are already paying 80% of the tax bill.
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,968
Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
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Post by AnotherPea on Jul 27, 2016 17:02:32 GMT
Please don't say this - it simply is not true. Schools work hard to make sure students graduate with opportunity. Whether it be college, trade school, jobs or the military. My district quit teaching a lot of vocational classes that they used to offer because they want the students to go to college. It's sad, but true. My district dropped a lot too - because of funding. There were more students requesting AP classes and other electives. So when the numbers dropped we lost positions. Students were signing up for fewer of those classes so we have less of them available. We're very close to losing ROTC because we have to have 100 students enrolled each semester. Not our call - just the way the armed forces determines eligibility. But...we have great programs where students are GREATLY supported as they find internships, take vocational classes at a nearby tech school (on the district's dime), have vocational part-time jobs (apprenticeships in essence). Students are given all sorts of tests to help determine what their best path would be to be successful. We have guest speakers twice a week that come in and talk about pathways other than college. All of it is optional and students have to actually listen to the morning announcements to take advantage of a lot of the opportunities, but they are plentiful. This is not unusual for schools across the country. What *I* see are parents (in certain demographics) that expect their children to go to college. Parents that may not have even gone themselves. Because they assume that is the proper thing to do. Parents that have gone to college and have never used their degrees (mainly talking about the SAHMs that met their husbands while in college) are especially adamant that their children go to college too. Even if it is obvious to the teachers that these kids have no business going away to college immediately after graduation. I once got fussed at and had a parent email my big boss because I suggested her son attend a community college program. Mom is a SAHM, dad is a doctor. I didn't say that her son shouldn't go to a university, nor did I imply that he couldn't handle the rigor. He had simply stated how much he enjoyed electricity and that he had always wanted to be an electrician. I told him that our local community college had an excellent program for that and he should look into it. Community college was beneath him, according to the mother. He was going to go to medical school like his father did. There is a quiet shame associated with anything other than a 4 year university now. THAT is what needs to change. Allow kids to take courses that interest them instead of pressuring them to take AP courses as 14 year olds. Let them discover where their talents are.
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Post by anxiousmom on Jul 27, 2016 17:13:26 GMT
This is one of my biggest, stand up on a soap box and scream to the heavens issues. You should be concerned-those for profit schools are a big problem. The latest statistic that I read is that is that 30% (give or take) of all student loans are given to students at those type schools and that those 30% are responsible for almost 60% of student loan defaults. The majority of those school are subpar, prey on the weak, and in some cases charge for a two year "degree" what a state college charges for a four year degree including costs associated with housing. A second insult occurs when some of those students decide they want to further their education and they learn that not only do their credits not transfer to an accredited college degree program, but in many cases have capped out their grant dollar amounts and are only eligible for more loans. It is HUGELY concerning. ^^^ some of those for-profit schools are working with the 'welfare-to-work' people to quote-unquote educate people to get them off the welfare rolls, as well... so those people, who in many cases already have many factors stacked against them (in terms of living arrangements, no reliable transportation, possibly small children who need care, no income, etc.) go to these schools to get a cosmetology certification, dental hygienist certification, etc. as part of receiving their benefits, and then they incur larger-than-necessary debt in the process which they may or may not be able to pay off later. But hey, they have to 'get to work, right?' and this is one of the ways that states are allowed to use their TANF funds under the " Reduce the dependency of needy parents by promoting job preparation, work and marriage" header. (There is a VERY well-done series of stories that have been broadcast recently during Marketplace Money on NPR- I've heard a few of them- related to TANF, from "the Uncertain Hour" podcast; it's been very educational and enlightening.) I actually worked with a job training agency. It is true that the governmental agencies work closely with the for-profit schools. It has to do with the way the governmental rules are written-when you open up a contract you have to open it up to all. We had a list of about 25 different training partners, and of those only two were accredited institutions. As a person who guided the 'customers' I was under very strict rules about not steering a customer toward one school over another. I had one customer that went to a for-profit school to get an AS degree in business. Her final cost for this degree would be $35K (approximate) of which the training agency paid about $10K. The rest was made up loans and grants. When she completed her degree, not one single one of those classes would transfer to an accredited school. Not one. Not even the basic English or Math classes. If she wanted to continue, she would have to start completely over with over $20K in loans before she even registered for her first class. Or she would try to find work. Which is iffy because the reputation of those schools is such that it is difficult to find a reputable business that would consider it an actual degree. The likelihood of finding employment that paid enough to sustain her household is slim at best. Knowing all that, I still couldn't say 'you know what, if this is the direction you want to take, you really should consider attending the local community college instead...' To do so would get the agency I worked for in hot water as far as oversight of how government contracts worked. And those for-profit schools are SO slick in their sales that those who are less sophisticated in how higher education works fall for a pretty sales pitch and are in tens of thousands of dollars in debt with little hope to pay it back.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jul 27, 2016 17:42:43 GMT
^^^ the story I heard was from the viewpoint of a recruiter who worked for one of those schools, and finally realized what was going on when so many people who came in were receiving TANF assistance... I think she went on to become a sociologist. It's been a VERY eye-opening series to listen to. (here's the link to the specific story to which I'm referring, just in case anyone wants to read or listen to it)
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Jul 27, 2016 18:14:00 GMT
"When they are working" is key here; one of my cousins is an apprentice millwright. He has endured long stretches of unemployment because there is no work for him. Nothing is guaranteed, but I don't think reality is quite as peachy as you're painting it. Well, for our company, there are MANY times in the year we can't man jobs because we need more Millwrights. Our regular employees are kept busy, because we trust them, they're dependable, and have skills. We are also the largest millwright company in the tri-state area, so that could be the major difference for my point of view. My cousin lives in Northern California and I think his company is based out of there, too. Maybe he needs to move to your area (Not trying to be snarky.)
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Jul 27, 2016 18:22:39 GMT
Here are links to a few articles and sources on the correlation between student loans and the rise in tuition costs: Fed ReportSlateForbes
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 27, 2016 18:33:29 GMT
Please don't say this - it simply is not true. Schools work hard to make sure students graduate with opportunity. Whether it be college, trade school, jobs or the military. My district quit teaching a lot of vocational classes that they used to offer because they want the students to go to college. It's sad, but true. we quit teaching the vocational classes because of lack of funding and the testing requirements if NCLB.
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Post by anxiousmom on Jul 27, 2016 18:50:56 GMT
My district quit teaching a lot of vocational classes that they used to offer because they want the students to go to college. It's sad, but true. we quit teaching the vocational classes because of lack of funding and the testing requirements if NCLB. I always thought the way my kid's school did things was pretty cool. Every kid who went to the school, regardless of whether or not they were on the going to college track, was also put into a vocational track. For example, my youngest son's girlfriend just graduated. She graduated in the top 10 of their class, had enough AP and dual enrollment credit to college as a second semester sophomore and because she was in a health related vocational track, she also graduated with all the appropriate classes to become a CNA. So while she is going off to college in the fall, she also has a vocation that will allow her to work while in school. My younger son was also in a health track and has all the appropriate course work for a medical something (some kind of admin thing) that along with working in a law office for the last four years allows him to do paralegal work in a legal setting that deals with medical legalities. He is going off to school in August as a sophomore as well and is planning on working while in school. Everyone at his school graduates with some kind of vocational certification that allows them to go straight to work if they want. While they aren't high paying jobs, they are definitely considered stepping stone certifications that can be built on in the future if the student wants to.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jul 27, 2016 19:18:21 GMT
If only a dome would do that! I don't care why Trump wants a wall. I care why I want one. I've given our government more than enough time to do their job and secure that southern border. They have failed big time! It's a freakin' absurdity all the crying that's being done about this most basic duty. ETA - not you, Ramblin. There was a good segment on one of the news stations the other day regarding the southern border. They talked to border guards and also had a breakdown of how many people are entering (or being apprehended? Can't remember which) each year. It is actually very low right now. Eta that I am not explaining it very well. Trying to get ready for work but also reading the thread. . Basically, they were saying that the numbers that were entering illegally was much lower than in the past but the number being deported is highest. So, there IS some progress being made. I wish I could remember which network it was on so I could find a link. They also talked to border agents who said that additional wall is not necessary (they were in an area where there was a partial wall but that at the end of it you could just look around it into Mexico). They said that the technology that they have recently gotten is very helpful, and that the money they have asked for to increase their budget had NOT been to add on to the wall, as they don't see that as necessary. You explained just fine. I'd prefer an alternate to a physical wall, too. The feds haven't thought securing that border worth it to date. I've heard that the numbers entering are down. That's not good enough. Those who are desperate are selling their safety to coyotes who are more concerned with $ than human lives. If it comes down to saving the people or the drugs in a run, it's the drugs that win. Not to mention the horror of trusting children's lives into the hands of people who would have no qualms of selling those children into the sex trade. Security won't be better until Americans living right along the border are safe. They are far from safe now.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jul 27, 2016 19:21:34 GMT
My family business is Union. We are Union Millwrights, with a full 4 year apprenticeship program. There is hands on learning, classes, and requires steps to become a Journeyman. A Journeyman in our area earns at least $25/hours. Stick with it a little, show your worth, and you can earn more above that as a foreman or Master Millwright. Several of our guys make over $100,000 a year...sounds like a great career path of you ask me! But can we find enough people to hire? Nope. wn the trades. Because schools only talk college and talk down the trades. Our community college is working hard with area schools these days to show that the trades are valid career paths. Without these trade workers, we will be without employees who put this world together. They are just as important as doctors and lawyers and teachers.Please don't say this - it simply is not true. Schools work hard to make sure students graduate with opportunity. Whether it be college, trade school, jobs or the military. Just change out schools for politicians then.
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Post by compwalla on Jul 27, 2016 19:31:51 GMT
If we've found the money to fund continuous armed conflict from 1991 through today, we can find the money to rebuild our roads and bridges, invest in pre and post-secondary education, provide access to affordable health coverage for everyone, and prepare for and fight climate change. It's a matter of priorities.
As for vocational education, there are many fine public institutions that teach these skills. The local juco in my own town has several two year vocational programs that stay full. Welding, auto and diesel mechanics, HVAC, aviation maintenance, electrician training, petroleum technology, and truck driving are some of the programs they offer. What for-profit schools promise is *fast* education which isn't as sexy or easy as investing two or more years into your certification and training but local public JuCos do it at a fraction of the price.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jul 27, 2016 19:43:30 GMT
There is a quiet shame associated with anything other than a 4 year university now. THAT is what needs to change. Allow kids to take courses that interest them instead of pressuring them to take AP courses as 14 year olds. Let them discover where their talents are. Exactly! Not going to college isn't even considered an acceptable option! Ridiculous. Besides the extreme cost, there are a lot of kids, not adults, kids, who aren't there to learn. They are there to party and protest and basically not assume the responsibilities that will serve them and society in the future. Just what jobs are these new graduates actually qualified to do when they get those degrees? And what jobs do they think they should be getting? There's often a very wide gap there. The kids who go into the trades, on the other hand, often have a solid 4+ years of work experience when their peers get their diplomas. This is a free country. People can do both if they choose. Learn a trade and go to college as able if that's what they want.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jul 27, 2016 19:48:08 GMT
we quit teaching the vocational classes because of lack of funding and the testing requirements if NCLB. I always thought the way my kid's school did things was pretty cool. Every kid who went to the school, regardless of whether or not they were on the going to college track, was also put into a vocational track. For example, my youngest son's girlfriend just graduated. She graduated in the top 10 of their class, had enough AP and dual enrollment credit to college as a second semester sophomore and because she was in a health related vocational track, she also graduated with all the appropriate classes to become a CNA. So while she is going off to college in the fall, she also has a vocation that will allow her to work while in school. My younger son was also in a health track and has all the appropriate course work for a medical something (some kind of admin thing) that along with working in a law office for the last four years allows him to do paralegal work in a legal setting that deals with medical legalities. He is going off to school in August as a sophomore as well and is planning on working while in school. Everyone at his school graduates with some kind of vocational certification that allows them to go straight to work if they want. While they aren't high paying jobs, they are definitely considered stepping stone certifications that can be built on in the future if the student wants to. I love it!
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Post by anonrefugee on Jul 27, 2016 19:48:35 GMT
we quit teaching the vocational classes because of lack of funding and the testing requirements if NCLB. I always thought the way my kid's school did things was pretty cool. Every kid who went to the school, regardless of whether or not they were on the going to college track, was also put into a vocational track. For example, my youngest son's girlfriend just graduated. She graduated in the top 10 of their class, had enough AP and dual enrollment credit to college as a second semester sophomore and because she was in a health related vocational track, she also graduated with all the appropriate classes to become a CNA. So while she is going off to college in the fall, she also has a vocation that will allow her to work while in school. My younger son was also in a health track and has all the appropriate course work for a medical something (some kind of admin thing) that along with working in a law office for the last four years allows him to do paralegal work in a legal setting that deals with medical legalities. He is going off to school in August as a sophomore as well and is planning on working while in school. Everyone at his school graduates with some kind of vocational certification that allows them to go straight to work if they want. While they aren't high paying jobs, they are definitely considered stepping stone certifications that can be built on in the future if the student wants to. Our district is moving to a variation of this. Nice to read it's useful.
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MerryMom
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,538
Member is Online
Jul 24, 2014 19:51:57 GMT
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Post by MerryMom on Jul 27, 2016 19:50:38 GMT
By ending the billions and billions of tax breaks to the wealthy, end corporate welfare, tax the American companies that move their HQs to other countries...
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Jul 27, 2016 20:42:40 GMT
Not bad... We were able to go 145 posts before the "tax the rich" mantra made its entrance
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Post by ladytrisha on Jul 27, 2016 20:55:40 GMT
And end the oil subsidies. Stop funding a military plane that can't get off the ground ... billions later and they basically have a shiny new car with wings that can't move into first gear. Just end it. Of course that would mean, we'd get a glimpse of the military contract terms and we probably don't want to know how one-sided that all is do we? --------------- As an immigrant (many moons ago), I am bothered, bewildered and disgusted by the system in place to deal with immigration. While our government lives in some Alice in Wonderland world where we keep popping off amnesty programs left and right (literally some from the left, some from the right), there are real people that get affected by this fiasco.
Friend of mine - Dad has a work visa here and has for years so he works and his wife is a stay at home Mom. Both of their sons got kicked out because INS told them they had to go. Her oldest went back home first (England). Her youngest was enrolled in college so he could stay which was great as he has Aspergers and living without his parents would be hard. He had gone to the local schools and then went to the local junior college.
Said college charged him INTERNATIONAL student rates - $10k a year. Seriously, can't make this crap up. Despite his parents owning a home in the community, they own cars, they pay taxes. Nope - he pays the international fees. So parents suck it up, pay the fees and he's taking his units to constitute a full load, has tutors to help - because if he's in school as a full time student he can stay here.
THEN the JC had a problem with one of the teachers - found out not enough time was put in. So they wipe the ONE class out. Refund the money to the kids with an "we're sorry, take it again next semester". Only this young man is now in violation of immigration rules so it got reported and INS said he HAD to go back to England immediately.
THIS is what I have a problem with. Our government (all of it) cherry picks on what it chooses to do - illegals are hard to find, but kids who have had a legit problem? - who cares, off you go before you can figure out how to fix it.
His parents will most likely sell up and move back to England - we lose productive members of society, here legally and wanted here because of their skills (she can't work as a midwife which is her vocation) - but ya know, let's let the illegals stay cuz they're hard to find. SMH
And yes, I'm with her. My kid is with Bernie and now with her because he refuses to waste his vote. My hubby is with her too.
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 27, 2016 21:37:06 GMT
we quit teaching the vocational classes because of lack of funding and the testing requirements if NCLB. I always thought the way my kid's school did things was pretty cool. Every kid who went to the school, regardless of whether or not they were on the going to college track, was also put into a vocational track. For example, my youngest son's girlfriend just graduated. She graduated in the top 10 of their class, had enough AP and dual enrollment credit to college as a second semester sophomore and because she was in a health related vocational track, she also graduated with all the appropriate classes to become a CNA. So while she is going off to college in the fall, she also has a vocation that will allow her to work while in school. My younger son was also in a health track and has all the appropriate course work for a medical something (some kind of admin thing) that along with working in a law office for the last four years allows him to do paralegal work in a legal setting that deals with medical legalities. He is going off to school in August as a sophomore as well and is planning on working while in school. Everyone at his school graduates with some kind of vocational certification that allows them to go straight to work if they want. While they aren't high paying jobs, they are definitely considered stepping stone certifications that can be built on in the future if the student wants to. I would love this. It gives kids the opportunity to training both and keep both doors open
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Post by compwalla on Jul 27, 2016 22:21:12 GMT
There is a quiet shame associated with anything other than a 4 year university now. THAT is what needs to change. Allow kids to take courses that interest them instead of pressuring them to take AP courses as 14 year olds. Let them discover where their talents are. Exactly! Not going to college isn't even considered an acceptable option! Ridiculous. Besides the extreme cost, there are a lot of kids, not adults, kids, who aren't there to learn. They are there to party and protest and basically not assume the responsibilities that will serve them and society in the future. Just what jobs are these new graduates actually qualified to do when they get those degrees? And what jobs do they think they should be getting? There's often a very wide gap there. The kids who go into the trades, on the other hand, often have a solid 4+ years of work experience when their peers get their diplomas. This is a free country. People can do both if they choose. Learn a trade and go to college as able if that's what they want. My oldest son just graduated high school in May. He is wicked smart but he has decided not to go to four year school right now. He's enrolling in the local junior college here in their automotive program. He's crazy for cars, has pretty severe ADHD that make life sitting sitting sitting in a classroom and then a desk a really torturous prospect for him so he's doing something that will be a good living, will enable him to follow his passion, and if at some time later he wants to go back to school to get a four year degree he can do that. We are very proud of him for knowing himself well enough to make the best decision for him.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jul 27, 2016 22:29:39 GMT
Exactly! Not going to college isn't even considered an acceptable option! Ridiculous. Besides the extreme cost, there are a lot of kids, not adults, kids, who aren't there to learn. They are there to party and protest and basically not assume the responsibilities that will serve them and society in the future. Just what jobs are these new graduates actually qualified to do when they get those degrees? And what jobs do they think they should be getting? There's often a very wide gap there. The kids who go into the trades, on the other hand, often have a solid 4+ years of work experience when their peers get their diplomas. This is a free country. People can do both if they choose. Learn a trade and go to college as able if that's what they want. My oldest son just graduated high school in May. He is wicked smart but he has decided not to go to four year school right now. He's enrolling in the local junior college here in their automotive program. He's crazy for cars, has pretty severe ADHD that make life sitting sitting sitting in a classroom and then a desk a really torturous prospect for him so he's doing something that will be a good living, will enable him to follow his passion, and if at some time later he wants to go back to school to get a four year degree he can do that. We are very proud of him for knowing himself well enough to make the best decision for him. Good for him! My daughter took classes in the automotive program at a community college and learned so much. Working on cars turned out not to be her thing, but she had nothing but good things to say about the classes.
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