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Post by mellyw on Aug 30, 2016 15:25:50 GMT
I'll give a little of my background, just to show I understand the sacrifice & respecting the flag. My DH was Active Duty Air Force for 22 years. He served in every action during that time, stretching back to Panama, Gulf War, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Iraq. We were married the whole time, so I've been thru it all. Including being told I was a traitor, unpatriotic, insert nasty name of choice, because I didn't support going into Iraq. Including on the old pea board. Ahh, fun times.
Saying all that, I support his choice to not stand during the Anthem. He feels strongly enough that it's how he wants to protest, had to know the backlash that was coming. For me, my DH fighting for his country includes the right to protest peacefully in the form you choose.
I know that's not a popular opinion, that's why I gave my background. I do understand the mindset of respecting the flag, & I respect that opinion. I'm well aware of the history, & for me, that makes it a powerful, peaceful way to protest.
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basketdiva
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,661
Jun 26, 2014 11:45:09 GMT
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Post by basketdiva on Aug 30, 2016 15:31:39 GMT
Sitting during the national anthem is not a solution to the issue. He needs to get off his a#$ and get involved in some manner. Time for this story to go away.
FYI- I've seen many people either not take thier hats off, keep talking during the anthem or continue walking to and attempting to go down a row to get to their seats. Just as disrespectful.
There is a quote ( many arguments as to who really said it) "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
I do not like the new practice of ebing told to stand and remove my hat when God Bless America is played during the 7th inning stretch. It's a great song but not the national anthem.
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Post by gryroagain on Aug 30, 2016 15:34:43 GMT
I'm an Army veteran. If I wasn't so committed to keeping politics off my Facebook page I'd seriously lambast all the "veterans say" posts people keeping posting there in reference to this. Especially since only 1 has been from an actual veteran...we are not a monolithic entity, first if all! Don't presume to speak for me, especially if you never served yourself.
I would not want to live in, let alone defend, a country where forced acts of patriotism and no free speech are the expected behavior. That is t what America is about.
Is it kind of douchey? (or however you spell that!) Maybe. Is it my place to prohibit the free speech of another American? Nope.
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Post by kernriver on Aug 30, 2016 15:36:50 GMT
He doesnt agree with the government. Perfectly fine just like a group of people that didnt agree with the BRitish government a couple hundred years or so ago.
is he an ass? Yes. Is this a spectacularly meaningless gesture? Yes. But he's allowed to do it because thats what this country is all about. Freedom to speak out against the government.
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eleezybeth
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,784
Jun 28, 2014 20:42:01 GMT
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Post by eleezybeth on Aug 30, 2016 15:37:41 GMT
I literally just wrote something similar on a FB page. Also a military spouse with multiple deployments under my belt.
If that man wants to exercise every damn right he has, then do it! THAT honors my Soldier. THAT makes what my Soldier has been through not in vain. THAT reminds me WHY I should be okay with another deployment, PCS or any other random crap that comes our way. I'm supposed to be okay with the right that allows you to buy assault weapons because it is a RIGHT but this guy can't sit in protest? Dafuq? ALL rights. You don't want to give up your assault weapon, then he can sit his ass down. Don't be a hypocrite.
I have ALWAYS supported someone burning or stomping on a flag. You know why? Protest - it's your right. Don't agree with us? Good. Tell me more because making you just like me makes this country worse. We aren't in a dictatorship. You aren't going to be beheaded or stoned. Protest yourself all over this great country. ENJOY these rights that have been given to us.
So... let's just play a little devil's advocate. Let's say some sort of gun legislation goes through that Colin feels is against his beliefs and he THEN sits down to protest, do you support him then?
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Post by scraplette on Aug 30, 2016 15:38:21 GMT
He should stand, but I don't believe this decision by a ball player deserves attention. We should not consider them role models. I wish we'd stop glorifying those that provide entertainment, no matter how developed their skill.
ETA: I think he should stand, because his team does. It's a football game.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 24, 2024 19:06:41 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2016 15:41:34 GMT
Mine won't be popular either. I akin it to those who feel the confederate flag to be offensive. So many people protested the flying of the confederate flag over state buildings, etc. The stars and stripes flag that is flying today, is a flag that is a symbol to many Native American tribes, to be a flag of oppression, hate, murder, and every other negative action perpetrated by the American government during the settling of this country. To them, it is not a symbol to be respected and many do not stand for the anthem nor recite the pledge of allegiance in schools.
Colin Kaepernick has his reasons, and I do consider them valid. For him, the US flag represents oppression, hate, murder and every other negative action perpetrated by the American government towards the black community throughout history.
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Post by vspindler on Aug 30, 2016 15:42:36 GMT
I can't say I like it, but it is his right. I did like what Jim Wright had to say on the subject. Stone Kettle Station
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Post by compwalla on Aug 30, 2016 15:43:58 GMT
I would not want to live in, let alone defend, a country where forced acts of patriotism and no free speech are the expected behavior. That is t what America is about. That's where I'm at. Blind allegiance to a piece of fabric is fucking creepy. I saw a quote today that said that the people who think American isn't great anymore are the same people with their panties in a bunch when ColinK says he's not standing because American isn't great. So. He can do what he wants and express his view in this non-violent way. That is patriotism personified. I say keep on redressing your grievances, Colin.
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Post by not2peased on Aug 30, 2016 15:45:15 GMT
it's his choice, as is the folks that are protesting his action (or in this case, non action)
I find it a bit douchey but most definitely his choice and a perfect example of what our soldiers fight for-to give people the freedom to "say" what they want-even when what they "say" is annoying, offensive or disrespectful.
he isn't hurting anyone with his action so I really can't get all upset about it and am surprised how many people are absolutely losing their minds over this
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Post by mellyw on Aug 30, 2016 15:46:01 GMT
I literally just wrote something similar on a FB page. Also a military spouse with multiple deployments under my belt. If that man wants to exercise every damn right he has, then do it! THAT honors my Soldier. THAT makes what my Soldier has been through not in vain. THAT reminds me WHY I should be okay with another deployment, PCS or any other random crap that comes our way. I'm supposed to be okay with the right that allows you to buy assault weapons because it is a RIGHT but this guy can't sit in protest? Dafuq? ALL rights. You don't want to give up your assault weapon, then he can sit his ass down. Don't be a hypocrite. I have ALWAYS supported someone burning or stomping on a flag. You know why? Protest - it's your right. Don't agree with us? Good. Tell me more because making you just like me makes this country worse. We aren't in a dictatorship. You aren't going to be beheaded or stoned. Protest yourself all over this great country. ENJOY these rights that have been given to us. So... let's just play a little devil's advocate. Let's say some sort of gun legislation goes through that Colin feels is against his beliefs and he THEN sits down to protest, do you support him then? You said it so much better than I did. Love your post. Can't agree more. I've never had a problem with the burning of the flag or stomping on it either. Like most Americans (I think anyway), I feel we are a unique country, & in that uniqueness is the right to protest in these ways. My DH did fight for your right to do just that. And I do think saying he needs to do something else (whatever that *else* may be), is a little disingenuous. If his one form of protest is not standing, making people talk, why isn't that enough? What right do you have to demand more than that? And on the flip side, what makes you so sure he isn't doing more?
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Post by debmast on Aug 30, 2016 15:47:35 GMT
I can't say I like it, but it is his right. I did like what Jim Wright had to say on the subject. Stone Kettle StationI agree with this, and also found Jim Wright's take on it to be the best at explaining it.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 24, 2024 19:06:41 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2016 15:47:55 GMT
If it's a meaningful gesture to him, I support his choice. I don't care one way or another.
I understand why some people think it's disrespectful, but I have NO PATIENCE for the people who basically say "love it or leave it." I don't think people like that have any clue what actually makes this country great.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 24, 2024 19:06:41 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2016 15:48:21 GMT
I feel that the freedom to protest is essential to a free democracy. I don't agree with him, but that's the beauty of it. He has the right to disagree publicly.
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LeaP
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,939
Location: Los Angeles, CA where 405 meets 101
Jun 26, 2014 23:17:22 GMT
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Post by LeaP on Aug 30, 2016 15:48:51 GMT
Sitting during the national anthem is not a solution to the issue. He needs to get off his a#$ and get involved in some manner. Time for this story to go away. ^^^This is why I love it here. I was going to agree with mellyw, but basketdiva made me think. Sitting down in protest is his right, but if this is all he does nothing will change. He should get involved in some way. Rosa Parks' refusal to move was planned and part of a larger movement. It is like people who refuse to vote and then complain about who got elected. Write in your dog's name, exercise your right to vote, but don't sit at home. It is only a democracy if people participate. SaveSave
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ginacivey
Pearl Clutcher
refupea #2 in southeast missouri
Posts: 4,685
Jun 25, 2014 19:18:36 GMT
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Post by ginacivey on Aug 30, 2016 15:49:11 GMT
you know what i think.....i think he's a mediocre quarterback - who needs some attention
he might stand in solidarity with oppressed people - but he, himself, not so much
he was adopted by a family - that i know - good people from a town i grew up in
i think that he is influenced by fame, fortune, friends, and the media
i don't think he really thought this thru
and then i wonder about the Russell Wison 'blackish' issue that he went thru - some of his teammates gave him shit about being not 'black' enough
it makes me wonder....did this young man - worry that his black peers might feel the same about him?
did he feel that, by making this stand, he would put those worries to bed
or maybe, he thinks that blacks are oppressed in the US and is standing with them
it really doesn't matter why - he has the right to sit out the national anthem
he has the right - it's the amendment right above the 2d!
and it makes me furious that people, who cling to the 2d with a death grip, ignore the first
ETA - army veteran - who thinks it's weird that we are listing our 'status' - (vets, spouse - deployments) cos it doesn't matter if you 'fought' for the right - cos really - that fight was a long time ago and we weren't in it - we just reaped the rewards
gina
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 24, 2024 19:06:41 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2016 15:50:16 GMT
Does he have the right? Sure! Should he escape consequences? Nope.
This is a man who is calling attention to himself. He's not backing up his protest with actions. He's just running his mouth, and from a position that is completely detached and often opposite from the issue he protests.
I'm hearing that the 49ers plan to cut him. Gee, that's what he wanted at the end of last season, as I recall.
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Post by hop2 on Aug 30, 2016 15:53:10 GMT
Sitting during the national anthem is not a solution to the issue. He needs to get off his a#$ and get involved in some manner. Time for this story to go away. FYI- I've seen many people either not take thier hats off, keep talking during the anthem or continue walking to and attempting to go down a row to get to their seats. Just as disrespectful. There is a quote ( many arguments as to who really said it) "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." I do not like the new practice of ebing told to stand and remove my hat when God Bless America is played during the 7th inning stretch. It's a great song but not the national anthem. Yea it's not going to do much, I'd rather him get involved in a community solution in his community. Mentor someone, be there, show up, invest time and maybe even money in a community that needs it. BUT it's his right to peacefully protest so I'm not boycotting him or anything. But since I don't watch it play football that won't help him. Unfortunately for him, I think a large percentage of people who watch/follow football will care. Maybe I'm wrong, it's just my opinion based on who I know who follows football, no links or 'evidence' to back that up.
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Post by mellyw on Aug 30, 2016 15:54:02 GMT
I would not want to live in, let alone defend, a country where forced acts of patriotism and no free speech are the expected behavior. That is t what America is about. That's where I'm at. Blind allegiance to a piece of fabric is fucking creepy. I saw a quote today that said that the people who think American isn't great anymore are the same people with their panties in a bunch when ColinK says he's not standing because American isn't great. So. He can do what he wants and express his view in this non-violent way. That is patriotism personified. I say keep on redressing your grievances, Colin. Or I could have waited for Compwalla to post, cause that's pretty close to how I feel. Patriotism personified, gonna keep that in my back pocket, thanks Compwalla!
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ginacivey
Pearl Clutcher
refupea #2 in southeast missouri
Posts: 4,685
Jun 25, 2014 19:18:36 GMT
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Post by ginacivey on Aug 30, 2016 15:55:17 GMT
Does he have the right? Sure! Should he escape consequences? Nope. This is a man who is calling attention to himself. He's not backing up his protest with actions. He's just running his mouth, and from a position that is completely detached and often opposite from the issue he protests. I'm hearing that the 49ers plan to cut him. Gee, that's what he wanted at the end of last season, as I recall. he's been hurt, had multiple surgeries and just not performing as they expected and his gf is a VJ with MTV (or something like that) he'd like to be traded to the Jets to be closer to her - according to reports football fans are thinking this is an attention getter gina
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kelly8875
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,441
Location: Lost in my supplies...
Oct 26, 2014 17:02:56 GMT
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Post by kelly8875 on Aug 30, 2016 15:56:27 GMT
It's his right to not stand if that's how he chooses to protest. Just because the majority doesn't agree, doesn't make him wrong in his belief. It's an American right.
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Post by sunnyd on Aug 30, 2016 15:58:12 GMT
I'm sick of living in a country that oppresses people who can't catch a football. Yes, I'm making light of it but I think he's an ass & could actually take more productive action. Instead of protesting, drop a few of your $16 million net worth to actually do something that will help your cause. Now that you have our attention, put your money where you mouth is....do something that will actually help. I'm SO thankful to be an American and my freedom and I respect his right.
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Post by epeanymous on Aug 30, 2016 15:58:43 GMT
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Post by blondiec47 on Aug 30, 2016 15:59:00 GMT
He can do whatever he likes, he is not hurting anyone. BUT if he is so concerned is he doing anything about it. He lives in a huge house and makes millions of dollars, is he donating any time or money to help inner city programs for these oppressed people??? If the answer is no, then he can sit down and shut the hell up
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Post by hop2 on Aug 30, 2016 16:00:12 GMT
Sitting during the national anthem is not a solution to the issue. He needs to get off his a#$ and get involved in some manner. Time for this story to go away. ^^^This is why I love it here. I was going to agree with mellyw, but basketdiva made me think. Sitting down in protest is his right, but if this is all he does nothing will change. He should get involved in some way. Rosa Parks' refusal to move was planned and part of a larger movement. It is like people who refuse to vote and then complain about who got elected. Write in your dog's name, exercise your right to vote, but don't sit at home. It is only a democracy if people participate. SaveSaveI'm going to remember your request if we end up with a dog for president. It'll be all your fault Or maybe you should make the dogs name public so 'we' can all vote for the same dog.
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Post by mellyw on Aug 30, 2016 16:01:13 GMT
Can I ask those of you saying it, why you feel he must do something else? That a simple form of protest, sitting during the Anthem that he knows will garner attention, why is that not enough? How have you decided it's not good enough, more must be done of his part to make it a valid protest?
And Gina- I gave my background, cause I know the game by now. I'd immediately be told I don't understand patriotism, sacrifice, what the flag means. That's why I put the disclaimer.
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Post by bc2ca on Aug 30, 2016 16:03:17 GMT
I'll give a little of my background, just to show I understand the sacrifice & respecting the flag. My DH was Active Duty Air Force for 22 years. He served in every action during that time, stretching back to Panama, Gulf War, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Iraq. We were married the whole time, so I've been thru it all. Including being told I was a traitor, unpatriotic, insert nasty name of choice, because I didn't support going into Iraq. Including on the old pea board. Ahh, fun times. Saying all that, I support his choice to not stand during the Anthem. He feels strongly enough that it's how he wants to protest, had to know the backlash that was coming. For me, my DH fighting for his country includes the right to protest peacefully in the form you choose.I know that's not a popular opinion, that's why I gave my background. I do understand the mindset of respecting the flag, & I respect that opinion. I'm well aware of the history, & for me, that makes it a powerful, peaceful way to protest. the bolded above is how I feel. I think it is a little sad that there is more news coverage of fans burning Kaepernick's jersey that talking about why he is sitting. He sat for all the preseason games, but somehow it was only noticed/talked about at the last game. There is also an interesting history of flag/National Anthem protests that goes back to Jackie Robinson who wrote "I cannot stand and sing the anthem. I cannot salute the flag. I know that I am a black man in a white world."
For those that say his protest is meaningless, I disagree. I kind of applaud someone who is willing to stand up and take the backlash and hopefully force a discussion.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 24, 2024 19:06:41 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2016 16:07:03 GMT
He can do whatever he likes, he is not hurting anyone. BUT if he is so concerned is he doing anything about it. He lives in a huge house and makes millions of dollars, is he donating any time or money to help inner city programs for these oppressed people??? If the answer is no, then he can sit down and shut the hell up This is how I feel about it. I feel like his sitting down is right up there with the Facebook "activism". I get what he's saying and don't doubt he probably have experienced it at some point in his life. At the same time, he makes way more money than a good chunk of us and can do more with that money. If he wants to see change, why isn't he being part of that change? It's easy to be all talk but harder to be part of the action. If I see him working with a program to help the people he says are oppressed, then I'd more likely to say "good for him!" If he's not going to be a part of the solution, then yeah, it's all talk.
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Post by hop2 on Aug 30, 2016 16:07:33 GMT
I'll give a little of my background, just to show I understand the sacrifice & respecting the flag. My DH was Active Duty Air Force for 22 years. He served in every action during that time, stretching back to Panama, Gulf War, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Iraq. We were married the whole time, so I've been thru it all. Including being told I was a traitor, unpatriotic, insert nasty name of choice, because I didn't support going into Iraq. Including on the old pea board. Ahh, fun times. Saying all that, I support his choice to not stand during the Anthem. He feels strongly enough that it's how he wants to protest, had to know the backlash that was coming. For me, my DH fighting for his country includes the right to protest peacefully in the form you choose.I know that's not a popular opinion, that's why I gave my background. I do understand the mindset of respecting the flag, & I respect that opinion. I'm well aware of the history, & for me, that makes it a powerful, peaceful way to protest. the bolded above is how I feel. I think it is a little sad that there is more news coverage of fans burning Kaepernick's jersey that talking about why he is sitting. He sat for all the preseason games, but somehow it was only noticed/talked about at the last game. There is also an interesting history of flag/National Anthem protests that goes back to Jackie Robinson who wrote "I cannot stand and sing the anthem. I cannot salute the flag. I know that I am a black man in a white world."
For those that say his protest is meaningless, I disagree. I kind of applaud someone who is willing to stand up and take the backlash and hopefully force a discussion. It's not that his protest is meaningless. It's just that he has the means to do so much more. True he doesn't have to, but then does his protest mean anything to him?
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Post by bc2ca on Aug 30, 2016 16:09:12 GMT
I can't say I like it, but it is his right. I did like what Jim Wright had to say on the subject. Stone Kettle Stationthanks for sharing
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