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Nov 24, 2024 23:28:44 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2016 22:48:43 GMT
Freedom of speech doesn't mean that there won't be consequences for exercising it. My thoughts exactly.I support his right to peacefully protest. I don't support him doing it on his employer's time. He looks like a big whiner in my opinion. And the NFL and/or 49ers will totally be within their rights if they punish him for it. He knew that when he decided to do this. I don't think anyone has said he should be immune from consequences. |
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Post by Merge on Aug 30, 2016 22:55:23 GMT
Freedom of speech doesn't mean that there won't be consequences for exercising it. My thoughts exactly.I support his right to peacefully protest. I don't support him doing it on his employer's time. He looks like a big whiner in my opinion. Maybe his employer should stop requiring an overt expression of nationalism at the beginning of each game. Why the heck do we play the anthem before these events anyway? It's entertainment. We don't sing the anthem before plays or concerts, or at the beginning of other forms of entertainment. The teams and players are not representing our country. Why then the anthem? |
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Post by snowsilver on Aug 30, 2016 22:58:39 GMT
You know, this young man lives in a country of privilege. HE has been the recipient of the privileges of this country most of his life. I guarantee every single one of us posting here would change many things in our country if we could. ALL of us think some things about America are wrong and we would "fix" them if only we could. Frequently those things are in direct opposition to what the guy sitting next to us on the bus would change if HE could. It is just the way things are.
Personally, I think Mr. Kaepernick has an absolute right to protest anything he likes. Lucky him--he lives in a country that allows him to say what he likes, protest what he likes! Maybe he ought to think a little bit about his freedoms instead of how "oppressed" he is. There are things that should be changed in this country (and I guarantee many of us would disagree hotly with each other about just what those things should be), but when all is said--we should be grateful every second of our lives that we can express our views without losing our lives or being put in jail. The very country that he is protesting is the very country that gives him the right to be a jerk.
Again--I would fight for his right to do say what he likes. But I think he's a bit of an idiot.
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Post by freecharlie on Aug 30, 2016 22:59:37 GMT
My thoughts exactly.I support his right to peacefully protest. I don't support him doing it on his employer's time. He looks like a big whiner in my opinion. Maybe his employer should stop requiring an overt expression of nationalism at the beginning of each game. Why the heck do we play the anthem before these events anyway? It's entertainment. We don't sing the anthem before plays or concerts, or at the beginning of other forms of entertainment. The teams and players are not representing our country. Why then the anthem? I like the anthem and I like it played at sporting events and I go to many. It is tradition at games it signals the start of the game. Obviously they don't require it as he hasn't been fired, but it is part of the tradition. Why change it for a bately-was player? |
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Post by mellyw on Aug 30, 2016 23:01:52 GMT
My thoughts exactly.I support his right to peacefully protest. I don't support him doing it on his employer's time. He looks like a big whiner in my opinion. Maybe his employer should stop requiring an overt expression of nationalism at the beginning of each game. Why the heck do we play the anthem before these events anyway? It's entertainment. We don't sing the anthem before plays or concerts, or at the beginning of other forms of entertainment. The teams and players are not representing our country. Why then the anthem? Now, my cynicism says money. Since the Gulf War, the NFL saw an opportunity to exploit patriotism. Cause nothing says I stand by our troops like having the military pay you millions to have "special" military days. As to how it started, well I'm off to Google. |
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Post by SockMonkey on Aug 30, 2016 23:02:50 GMT
It's a peaceful protest. Considering that the general public has been somewhat less outraged by rapists, domestic abusers, drug users and animal abusers in the NFL than a man who peacefully protests, I'd say we have our priorities a bit jacked up.
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Post by SockMonkey on Aug 30, 2016 23:06:15 GMT
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Aug 30, 2016 23:09:00 GMT
I don't think Merge is saying to stop playing the anthem just because of Colin Kapernick (spelled wrong, I know) but more like, what's the point of playing it at all?? It's tradition, but so?? The conductor of an orchestra taps his baton on the music stand, or raises his hand; the lights dim in a theater; the anthem isn't played before a symphony performance or a pop concert. The referee does the coin toss at the start of a football or basketball game; the green flag gets waved at a car race-- why do sporting events get the National Anthem?? I don't see that it's necessary to play it (or sing it) for sporting events, either. I wonder, did the tradition start during WWII, perhaps?? For an overt display of patriotism during wartime?? The announcer does seem to usually say something about honoring our service men and women... etc. ...now that I've thought about that some more, I think his protest of sitting to protest police brutality (or whatever his exact words were) means even LESS to me. Like snowsilver said, it's the NATIONAL FLAG; it's a symbol of the country that's given him all his opportunities. There is no 'national police force' or anything like that, so protesting the way he did makes even less sense to me, now. (but then again, I am STILL of the mindset that he did it as a media-attention-grab, not as a 'true' protest.) |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2016 23:12:48 GMT
It's a peaceful protest. Considering that the general public has been somewhat less outraged by rapists, domestic abusers, drug users and animal abusers in the NFL than a man who peacefully protests, I'd say we have our priorities a bit jacked up. AMEN |
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Post by freecharlie on Aug 30, 2016 23:15:00 GMT
I don't think Merge is saying to stop playing the anthem because of Colin Kapernick (spelled wrong, I know) but just what's the point of playing it at all?? It's tradition, but so?? The conductor of an orchestra taps his baton on the music stand, or raises his hand; the lights dim in a theater; the anthem isn't played before a symphony performance. The referee does the coin toss at the start of a football or basketball game; the green flag gets waved at a car race-- why do sporting events get the National Anthem?? I don't see that it's necessary to play it (or sing it) for sporting events, either. I wonder, did the tradition start during WWII, perhaps?? For an overt display of patriotism during wartime?? The announcer does seem to usually say something about honoring our service men and women... etc. ...now that I've thought about that some more, I think his protest of sitting to protest police brutality (or whatever his exact words were) means even LESS to me. Like snowsilver said, it's the NATIONAL FLAG; it's a symbol of the country that's given him all his opportunities. There is no 'national police force' or anything like that, so protesting the way he did makes even less sense to me, now. (but then again, I am STILL of the mindset that he did it as a media-attention-grab, not as a 'true' protest.) of course it isn't necessarily, nothing in sports really is. It reminds us that your team or there team we are all Americans. I personally think patriotism is a good thing. Then again, I grew up around a whole lot of Vietnam vets who still had mental issues due to not only the the war, but the way they were treated when they returned. They taught me to respect the flag, the anthem, and the pledge, and outhe of respect for them and our country I will continue to do so, to teach my children to do so, and to judge those who don't allow the respect to take place (sitting is fine, talking during to me is not). |
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Post by Merge on Aug 30, 2016 23:15:54 GMT
Maybe his employer should stop requiring an overt expression of nationalism at the beginning of each game. Why the heck do we play the anthem before these events anyway? It's entertainment. We don't sing the anthem before plays or concerts, or at the beginning of other forms of entertainment. The teams and players are not representing our country. Why then the anthem? I like the anthem and I like it played at sporting events and I go to many. It is tradition at games it signals the start of the game. Obviously they don't require it as he hasn't been fired, but it is part of the tradition. Why change it for a bately-was player? Well, my response was to the comment that his protest was "on his employer's time," which to me suggests that this demonstration is part of what the employer requires. Which wouldn't seem entirely fair. To draw a parallel, the pledge of allegiance is said daily at my place of employment and probably yours, but I am not required to stand, recite it, or require my students to stand or recite it. If I choose to exercise my right to sit quietly instead of reciting the pledge "on my employer's time," is that wrong? |
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Post by Merge on Aug 30, 2016 23:19:35 GMT
I don't think Merge is saying to stop playing the anthem just because of Colin Kapernick (spelled wrong, I know) but more like, what's the point of playing it at all?? It's tradition, but so?? The conductor of an orchestra taps his baton on the music stand, or raises his hand; the lights dim in a theater; the anthem isn't played before a symphony performance or a pop concert. The referee does the coin toss at the start of a football or basketball game; the green flag gets waved at a car race-- why do sporting events get the National Anthem?? I don't see that it's necessary to play it (or sing it) for sporting events, either. I wonder, did the tradition start during WWII, perhaps?? For an overt display of patriotism during wartime?? The announcer does seem to usually say something about honoring our service men and women... etc. ...now that I've thought about that some more, I think his protest of sitting to protest police brutality (or whatever his exact words were) means even LESS to me. Like snowsilver said, it's the NATIONAL FLAG; it's a symbol of the country that's given him all his opportunities. There is no 'national police force' or anything like that, so protesting the way he did makes even less sense to me, now. (but then again, I am STILL of the mindset that he did it as a media-attention-grab, not as a 'true' protest.) Thank you - I'm not saying it should not be played because of this guy (who I'd never heard of before yesterday), but rather questioning why it is played at all. IMO we have unhealthily conflated sports and patriotism in this country, but that's probably another topic for another thread.  |
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Aug 30, 2016 23:22:46 GMT
" It reminds us that your team or there team we are all Americans."
^^^ not picking on you, but this phrase bothers me a bit-- there are foreign-born or foreign-national players on most professional sports teams, are there not?? and there are more than likely foreign-born or foreign-national fans watching the sporting event?? Sporting events aren't a particularly 'American' thing.
--and honestly, I personally don't even like to even use the term 'American' like this any more, myself. Because Canada is part of North America, and there is also a Central America, and a South America. Are we not ALL American? Sporting events are held all over the world- I don't see anything particularly patriotic about them.
Perhaps they are just a good OPPORTUNITY to present 'United States patriotism' to the world via televising them, I guess... but the more I think about the whole thing, the more I agree with the person who wrote the post about 'patriot humping' and public displays of patriotism more as a way to possibly point out how un-patriotic someone ELSE is for NOT doing it.
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Post by hop2 on Aug 30, 2016 23:29:22 GMT
It's a peaceful protest. Considering that the general public has been somewhat less outraged by rapists, domestic abusers, drug users and animal abusers in the NFL than a man who peacefully protests, I'd say we have our priorities a bit jacked up. I could never believe any team took Vick back! People were so up in arms about that, but then again I'm not sure how many of the up in arms people were/are NFL fans. And it is all about the money. I don't think the rapist or the domestic abusers were convicted were they? So they'll ( the NFL ) stick with the excuse that they weren't. Or they will as long as they are bringing money in. Drug users? Aren't most of them? In some form or another? They did suspend that guy in NE on trial for murder before he was convicted. So there's that. Sarcasm |
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Post by mellyw on Aug 30, 2016 23:33:52 GMT
" It reminds us that your team or there team we are all Americans." ^^^ not picking on you, but this phrase bothers me a bit-- there are foreign-born or foreign-national players on most professional sports teams, are there not?? and there are more than likely foreign-born or foreign-national fans watching the sporting event?? Sporting events aren't a particularly 'American' thing. --and honestly, I personally don't even like to even use the term 'American' like this any more, myself. Because Canada is part of North America, and there is also a Central America, and a South America. Are we not ALL American? Sporting events are held all over the world- I don't see anything particularly patriotic about them. Perhaps they are just a good OPPORTUNITY to present 'United States patriotism' to the world via televising them, I guess... but the more I think about the whole thing, the more I agree with the person who wrote the post about 'patriot humping' and public displays of patriotism more as a way to possibly point out how un-patriotic someone ELSE is for NOT doing it. Reminds me of watching a MLS match Sunday (Major League Soccer), & I'm watching the beginning when the anthem is played. And I'm fairly certain most of the players aren't American. First time it really hit me like that, being a hockey fan, also a sport with a lot of players outside the U.S, I feel like I should have noticed. Then again, I'm a Detroit Red Wings fan, & I believe we consider the anthem to be Journeys Don't Stop Believing.  |
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AmandaA
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by AmandaA on Aug 30, 2016 23:34:04 GMT
Maybe if he feels sooooo strongly about this issue, he should put up and shut up. Perhaps a gesture a la Pat Tillman.... You want to make a difference, then leave the nfl and go pursue a career in law enforcement. Be the change you want to see in the world instead of making an apparent ass of yourself over this. He should get in touch with Matt Overton, who plays for our NFL franchise. He is planning his post NFL career in law enforcement and is the son of a cop who has retired but ironically is working for UCSF. He is a stand up guy that CK would learn a few things from instead of just running his mouth. Do you apply this standard to everyone who protests, or just NFL players/Colin Kaepernick? Cause I'll be honest & say I read your post with my jaw hanging open a little. It's sounds like your saying the only legitimate form of protest comes from those who join the military/police, & that's one hell of a standard that the majority of us won't achieve. No, not at all. If you saw his locker room interview he specifically called out law enforcement. So to that I say... If you think you know how it should be done (or want to criticize the way they do their job) then go do it yourself. It is the same thing I probably mutter to my husband when we watch the nightly news and see people griping about the police, healthcare workers, road construction crews, you get the idea. Don't you imagine that when a fan yells at him for missing a pass, throwing an interception, etc... That it doesn't go through his mind to think "hey, if you think you can do it better then you do it!" That was my point. So if indeed he feels so strongly about this issue to stir up such a hullabaloo... Then do something besides just stirring up crap. In the current climate of this country, I think plenty of people are "aware" of the things that he is upset about. The world needs people of prominence to do something about it not just make everyone else aware that they need to do something about it. That was my point. |
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Post by mellyw on Aug 30, 2016 23:41:39 GMT
Do you apply this standard to everyone who protests, or just NFL players/Colin Kaepernick? Cause I'll be honest & say I read your post with my jaw hanging open a little. It's sounds like your saying the only legitimate form of protest comes from those who join the military/police, & that's one hell of a standard that the majority of us won't achieve. No, not at all. If you saw his locker room interview he specifically called out law enforcement. So to that I say... If you think you know how it should be done (or want to criticize the way they do their job) then go do it yourself. It is the same thing I probably mutter to my husband when we watch the nightly news and see people griping about the police, healthcare workers, road construction crews, you get the idea. Don't you imagine that when a fan yells at him for missing a pass, throwing an interception, etc... That it doesn't go through his mind to think "hey, if you think you can do it better then you do it!" That was my point. So if indeed he feels so strongly about this issue to stir up such a hullabaloo... Then do something besides just stirring up crap. In the current climate of this country, I think plenty of people are "aware" of the things that he is upset about. The world needs people of prominence to do something about it not just make everyone else aware that they need to do something about it. That was my point. Thank you for explaining, I get your point now. Though we will have to disagree on that he needs to do something else besides his current protest method. |
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AmandaA
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by AmandaA on Aug 30, 2016 23:43:04 GMT
Maybe if he feels sooooo strongly about this issue, he should put up and shut up. Perhaps a gesture a la Pat Tillman.... You want to make a difference, then leave the nfl and go pursue a career in law enforcement. Be the change you want to see in the world instead of making an apparent ass of yourself over this. He should get in touch with Matt Overton, who plays for our NFL franchise. He is planning his post NFL career in law enforcement and is the son of a cop who has retired but ironically is working for UCSF. He is a stand up guy that CK would learn a few things from instead of just running his mouth. Do you apply this standard to everyone who protests, or just NFL players/Colin Kaepernick? Cause I'll be honest & say I read your post with my jaw hanging open a little. It's sounds like your saying the only legitimate form of protest comes from those who join the military/police, & that's one hell of a standard that the majority of us won't achieve. CK made some very uneducated comments about police and their training, which is why I suspect she is telling him to get into law enforcement so he can learn about the issues he is claiming to protest against. I have no problems with protests that are peaceful and nonviolent. I have no problems with protests that are respectful and I realize there are times when my version of respect may not agree with someone else. He did not hurt anyone by this protest. His disrespect is a matter of opinion. My issue with his protest is that of timing and wondering exactly when he discovered this was a problem? Yes and thank you, you got the point I was making. It was the same point that the Dallas police chief made after the shootings there.... If you don't like the way your neighborhood is being policed then become a police officer and be part of making it better instead of just complaining about it (or something to that point). |
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Post by freecharlie on Aug 30, 2016 23:48:18 GMT
I like the anthem and I like it played at sporting events and I go to many. It is tradition at games it signals the start of the game. Obviously they don't require it as he hasn't been fired, but it is part of the tradition. Why change it for a bately-was player? Well, my response was to the comment that his protest was "on his employer's time," which to me suggests that this demonstration is part of what the employer requires. Which wouldn't seem entirely fair. To draw a parallel, the pledge of allegiance is said daily at my place of employment and probably yours, but I am not required to stand, recite it, or require my students to stand or recite it. If I choose to exercise my right to sit quietly instead of reciting the pledge "on my employer's time," is that wrong? we say yhat a pharmacist should dispense medication prescribe regardless of religious objection, same with same sex marriage licenses. Employers have the right to chose and right now, the NFL does the anthem. Now they day it isn't required, but that doesn't mean there isn't a backlash. Don't like a job requirement? Find a different job. Ftr, we don't do the pledge at the high school. I know they do at the elementary. We do do it or the anthem before all sports, events, graduations...etc |
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Post by SockMonkey on Aug 30, 2016 23:50:15 GMT
Well, my response was to the comment that his protest was "on his employer's time," which to me suggests that this demonstration is part of what the employer requires. Which wouldn't seem entirely fair. To draw a parallel, the pledge of allegiance is said daily at my place of employment and probably yours, but I am not required to stand, recite it, or require my students to stand or recite it. If I choose to exercise my right to sit quietly instead of reciting the pledge "on my employer's time," is that wrong? we say yhat a pharmacist should dispense medication prescribe regardless of religious objection, same with same sex marriage licenses. Employers have the right to chose and right now, the NFL does the anthem. Now they day it isn't required, but that doesn't mean there isn't a backlash. Don't like a job requirement? Find a different job. Ftr, we don't do the pledge at the high school. I know they do at the elementary. We do do it or the anthem before all sports, events, graduations...etc Colin Kaepernick, by not standing, is not denying anyone health care or human rights. His protest impacts only him. You cannot make that comparison. I mean, you can, but it doesn't hold water. SaveSave |
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Post by littlefish on Aug 30, 2016 23:53:39 GMT
Maybe if he wasn't already a tool people would be reacting a little differently.
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Post by cmpeter on Aug 31, 2016 0:06:31 GMT
I agree a bit with littlefish...I think if Kapernick didn't already have a reputation as a bit of a jerk (at least that's his rep in my area of the country), the response would have been a lot different. Him choosing to take a stand on this matter (he had to know there would be a lot of hate and disagreement with his decision to protest in this matter), actually makes me respect him a bit more. I am glad that we live in a country strong enough to allow him to protest in this matter.
From what I heard in a BBC news story and have read online, he has been involved in Black Lives Matter since last year. He's called out Donald Trump on Twitter in December for his policies.
The NFL doesn't require, they just encourage players to stand during the anthem. |
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Post by christine58 on Aug 31, 2016 0:26:48 GMT
That's really exciting, christine58. I hope he makes it. My first love in College Football, then NFL. I always find it a little weird people who are mostly NFL fans, not so much college. Those players come from somewhere! I converted my DD's boyfriend, who watched mainly NFL. And wouldn't you know, he's always kind of followed Oklahoma (where he was born) & goes to Clemson. So not fair!!! I do too. He's very smart...dual undergrad degrees in bio and chemistry with a master's. He's coaching for his college team--first year!! Looking forward to watching some games |
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Post by lindywholoveskids on Aug 31, 2016 0:34:41 GMT
Freedom of speech. He maybe should say what he is doing to help the many problems we have.
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Post by freecharlie on Aug 31, 2016 0:46:27 GMT
we say yhat a pharmacist should dispense medication prescribe regardless of religious objection, same with same sex marriage licenses. Employers have the right to chose and right now, the NFL does the anthem. Now they day it isn't required, but that doesn't mean there isn't a backlash. Don't like a job requirement? Find a different job. Ftr, we don't do the pledge at the high school. I know they do at the elementary. We do do it or the anthem before all sports, events, graduations...etc Colin Kaepernick, by not standing, is not denying anyone health care or human rights. His protest impacts only him. You cannot make that comparison. I mean, you can, but it doesn't hold water. SaveSaveI'm not sure why it doesn't hold water. If it is a requirement for your job, you do it or you get another job or get somenough of exemption from your boss. If there was a dress code at work and an employee didn't want to follow it, they would be terminated. I have to go to graduation as part of my job. If I don't go, they can not renew me the next year. |
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Post by lindywholoveskids on Aug 31, 2016 0:54:21 GMT
Repeatedly the Coach has stated the standing isn't required by the team. Apparently it's not required by the NFL
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Post by freecharlie on Aug 31, 2016 1:01:33 GMT
Repeatedly the Coach has stated the standing isn't required by the team. Apparently it's not required by the NFL agreed, which is why he still has a job. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2016 1:09:51 GMT
I think we should take notice of peaceful civic protest by our fellow citizens, not denigrate it. It made us sit up and take notice. Unfortunately, the discussion is "he sat during the anthem" not "racism is systemic in our society."
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Post by mirabelleswalker on Aug 31, 2016 1:43:28 GMT
What people? White people? What does it matter? Anyone I have heard speak about it, anyone on tv who I have seen speak about it, anyone I have seen post or write about it is talking about the fact that his "protest" is not doing anything to change anything, nor is it getting people to talk about what he is protesting. Everything I have heard has been about him and the fact that he was disrespecting the country and the flag, and that it is inappropriate according to the rules of his employer. That's it. I don't think it's a "fact" that he is disrespecting the country and flag. One person's disrespect is another person's conscientious objection. Most of the criticism I have seen for him is from white people, so yes, it matters. White people do not have a longstanding history of oppression in this country. Maybe he just hit the breaking point. I have also seen criticism that he is not in a position to protest because he is not "black enough." I'm so glad we're living in a post-racial society. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2016 1:44:38 GMT
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