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Post by elaine on May 5, 2017 0:36:25 GMT
Okay. We disagree. I think it is common sense when all the last names on the tickets are the same and the parents purchased all of them for themselves and their children. Easily checked. If you think that is equivalent to handing out tickets to strangers "Willy-Nilly," that is your opinion. Certainly not mine. Can only people with the same last name travel together? There's a lot of people have different last names than their kids. Conversely, lots of people have the same last name who aren't related. To what degree should it be allowed? Only parents and kids? What about step-parents? Or foster parents? I don't know how to multi-quote but Cycworker also said, "Whether it's a movie ticket or a plane ticket, I should damn well be able to give it to whoever the hell I want. It's MINE. It BELONGS to ME." That seems to be indicating she thinks she has the right to give them out Willy-Nilly" to which I think is a terrible idea. In the 21st century, we have these amazing things called computers. If I book tickets for myself, my husband and our two foster children, and we all have different last names, but I book them all as part of the same reservation, they ALL come up on the Delta's computer when they scan ANY credit card with my name - not only the one I used to buy the tickets. Amazing things, computers. And it would have taken less time to check on a computer that all that family's tickets were purchased by one of the parents that was traveling with the kids than it would have to process a stand-by/oversold passenger. All passengers who are booked in the same reservation should be allowed to travel together if they want to, regardless of their last names. In this case, it was obvious that they were all in the same family. It might not be as obvious in other cases, but easily checked on a computer to see if they are together.
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Post by dnkmmw on May 5, 2017 0:53:26 GMT
Can only people with the same last name travel together? There's a lot of people have different last names than their kids. Conversely, lots of people have the same last name who aren't related. To what degree should it be allowed? Only parents and kids? What about step-parents? Or foster parents? I don't know how to multi-quote but Cycworker also said, "Whether it's a movie ticket or a plane ticket, I should damn well be able to give it to whoever the hell I want. It's MINE. It BELONGS to ME." That seems to be indicating she thinks she has the right to give them out Willy-Nilly" to which I think is a terrible idea. In the 21st century, we have these amazing things called computers. If I book tickets for myself, my husband and our two foster children, and we all have different last names, but I book them all as part of the same reservation, they ALL come up on the Delta's computer when they scan ANY credit card with my name - not only the one I used to buy the tickets. Amazing things, computers. And it would have taken less time to check on a computer that all that family's tickets were purchased by one of the parents that was traveling with the kids than it would have to process a stand-by/oversold passenger. All passengers who are booked in the same reservation should be allowed to travel together if they want to, regardless of their last names. In this case, it was obvious that they were all in the same family. It might not be as obvious in other cases, but easily checked on a computer to see if they are together. In the 21st century, we have these amazing things called computers. If I book tickets for myself, my husband and our two foster children, and we all have different last names, but I book them all as part of the same reservation, they ALL come up on the Delta's computer when they scan ANY credit card with my name - not only the one I used to buy the tickets. Amazing things, computers. And it would have taken less time to check on a computer that all that family's tickets were purchased by one of the parents that was traveling with the kids than it would have to process a stand-by/oversold passenger. All passengers who are booked in the same reservation should be allowed to travel together if they want to, regardless of their last names. In this case, it was obvious that they were all in the same family. It might not be as obvious in other cases, but easily checked on a computer to see if they are together. But the two year old who boarded didn't have his own ticket; he was listed as a lap child. When the new fangled, amazing computer checked the boarding, it came back with a result of "Mr X didn't check in. There is an extra seat to be filled." Those computers, amazing indeed, well, when the people expecting accommodations follow the rules.
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Post by elaine on May 5, 2017 0:57:32 GMT
In the 21st century, we have these amazing things called computers. If I book tickets for myself, my husband and our two foster children, and we all have different last names, but I book them all as part of the same reservation, they ALL come up on the Delta's computer when they scan ANY credit card with my name - not only the one I used to buy the tickets. Amazing things, computers. And it would have taken less time to check on a computer that all that family's tickets were purchased by one of the parents that was traveling with the kids than it would have to process a stand-by/oversold passenger. All passengers who are booked in the same reservation should be allowed to travel together if they want to, regardless of their last names. In this case, it was obvious that they were all in the same family. It might not be as obvious in other cases, but easily checked on a computer to see if they are together. In the 21st century, we have these amazing things called computers. If I book tickets for myself, my husband and our two foster children, and we all have different last names, but I book them all as part of the same reservation, they ALL come up on the Delta's computer when they scan ANY credit card with my name - not only the one I used to buy the tickets. Amazing things, computers. And it would have taken less time to check on a computer that all that family's tickets were purchased by one of the parents that was traveling with the kids than it would have to process a stand-by/oversold passenger. All passengers who are booked in the same reservation should be allowed to travel together if they want to, regardless of their last names. In this case, it was obvious that they were all in the same family. It might not be as obvious in other cases, but easily checked on a computer to see if they are together. But the two year old who boarded didn't have his own ticket; he was listed as a lap child. When the new fangled, amazing computer checked the boarding, it came back with a result of "Mr X didn't check in. There is an extra seat to be filled." Those computers, amazing indeed, well, when the people expecting accommodations follow the rules. What does that have to do with any of the questions you threw at me in the post of yours I first quoted? You asked how an airline would know people were in the same family/party. I answered. You didn't like the answer and changed the topic.
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Post by frenchie on May 5, 2017 0:57:41 GMT
When you fly, you have to have ID and be accounted for. Can you imagine if a plane crashes and people just decided to use their brother's or another family member's or anyone else's ticket for that flight--how do officials account for who is on that airplane? And can you imagine the clusterf!ck of lawsuits after that crash? "Hey, my uncle was on that flight, he was using his sister's ticket....." even though there is absolutely no record of him having been on the flight. You also can't ignore the possibility of a terrorist handing over a ticket to a relative with the same last name. One of whom might be on the no-fly list, the other not. It's just not the way an airline can handle those situations. They must have proof of the people who are actually on board.
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Post by elaine on May 5, 2017 0:59:27 GMT
When you fly, you have to have ID and be accounted for. Can you imagine if a plane crashes and people just decided to use their brother's or another family member's or anyone else's ticket for that flight--how do officials account for who is on that airplane? And can you imagine the clusterf!ck of lawsuits after that crash? "Hey, my uncle was on that flight, he was using his sister's ticket....." even though there is absolutely no record of him having been on the flight. You also can't ignore the possibility of a terrorist handing over a ticket to a relative with the same last name. One of whom might be on the no-fly list, the other not. It's just not the way an airline can handle those situations. They must have proof of the people who are actually on board. They never have proof/ID for passengers under 18 on domestic flights, even when they have their own seats.
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Post by dnkmmw on May 5, 2017 1:01:10 GMT
But the two year old who boarded didn't have his own ticket; he was listed as a lap child. When the new fangled, amazing computer checked the boarding, it came back with a result of "Mr X didn't check in. There is an extra seat to be filled." Those computers, amazing indeed, well, when the people expecting accommodations follow the rules. What does that have to do with any of the questions you threw at me in the post of yours I first quoted? You asked how an airline would know people were in the same family/party. I answered. You didn't like the answer and changed the topic. You said this, "And it would have taken less time to check on a computer that all that family's tickets were purchased by one of the parents that was traveling with the kids than it would have to process a stand-by/oversold passenger." To which I responded. Not sure how that's changing the topic.
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Post by elaine on May 5, 2017 1:05:27 GMT
What does that have to do with any of the questions you threw at me in the post of yours I first quoted? You asked how an airline would know people were in the same family/party. I answered. You didn't like the answer and changed the topic. You said this, "And it would have taken less time to check on a computer that all that family's tickets were purchased by one of the parents that was traveling with the kids than it would have to process a stand-by/oversold passenger." To which I responded. Not sure how that's changing the topic. "Can only people with the same last name travel together? There's a lot of people have different last names than their kids. Conversely, lots of people have the same last name who aren't related. To what degree should it be allowed? Only parents and kids? What about step-parents? Or foster parents?" I responded to this.
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Post by dnkmmw on May 5, 2017 1:08:07 GMT
You said this, "And it would have taken less time to check on a computer that all that family's tickets were purchased by one of the parents that was traveling with the kids than it would have to process a stand-by/oversold passenger." To which I responded. Not sure how that's changing the topic. "Can only people with the same last name travel together? There's a lot of people have different last names than their kids. Conversely, lots of people have the same last name who aren't related. To what degree should it be allowed? Only parents and kids? What about step-parents? Or foster parents?" I responded to this. At least we are in agreement on who changed the subject.
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Post by frenchie on May 5, 2017 1:09:16 GMT
Yes, the passengers who have tickets are named, regardless of age. Minors may not have ID for domestic flights, but essentially, as his or her parent, I am saying that the ticket is for the child/children who are flying with me. With regard to the family on Delta, it was reported that the son who didn't fly but had the ticket was 18. So he would have had to show ID when checking in at some point.
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happymomma
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,078
Aug 6, 2014 23:57:56 GMT
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Post by happymomma on May 5, 2017 1:24:34 GMT
What I am still trying to figure out is how they got the 2 year old on as a 'lap child', when Delta requires a purchased ticket (no discount either!) for anyone 24 months or older.
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Post by hollymolly on May 5, 2017 1:53:20 GMT
Most of those empty seats are filled by paying customers who didn't get to be in the original seat they paid for. If my flight is cancelled, there is a whole plane full of people who paid for seats they now don't have. So if someone on a later flight is a no-show, the airline gives me that seat to replace the seat I had already paid for on the cancelled flight. The seat on the new plane was paid for by the no-show, the seat I paid for never made it off the ground. Neither seat was paid for twice.
Between cancelled flights, missed connections, and just plain old missed flights because the ticket holder couldn't get themselves there in time, there are a lot of people not in the seats they paid for. The airline will now have to put those people in other seats that they had intended to sell to someone else. Unless the seat is available because the original purchaser is no-show, the airline is not making money on that seat.
Overbooking is a problem, but there are still a large number of people every day needing a seat on a flight that they did not pay for because they weren't on the flight they did pay for. Airlines are greedy, but they're not always the bad guy.
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Post by Darcy Collins on May 5, 2017 1:59:29 GMT
What I am still trying to figure out is how they got the 2 year old on as a 'lap child', when Delta requires a purchased ticket (no discount either!) for anyone 24 months or older. Pretty sure it's the obvious answer - lying. I've seen some really, really big lap "babies" - and as I have a son who's always been in the 90th to 97th percentile - I tend to think kids are younger than they appear. I'm not sure how big your child would have to be before they'd ask for proof. ETA based on elaine's comment and some conflicting news articles - I believe the couple purchased a ticket for their 2 year old and was only planning on their 1 year old being a lap baby.
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Post by jamielynn on May 5, 2017 12:28:16 GMT
What I am still trying to figure out is how they got the 2 year old on as a 'lap child', when Delta requires a purchased ticket (no discount either!) for anyone 24 months or older. Pretty sure it's the obvious answer - lying. I've seen some really, really big lap "babies" - and as I have a son who's always been in the 90th to 97th percentile - I tend to think kids are younger than they appear. I'm not sure how big your child would have to be before they'd ask for proof. You are not kidding here. I always pray I'm not by the "lap child" who appears to be the size of many preschoolers and is exceptionally fluent for the age combine with size. What a treat as a seat mate. I always bring my child's birth certificate and have never been asked to see it. Though I guess no one would question it when we've purchased a seat vs lap.
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Post by ferblover on May 5, 2017 13:32:07 GMT
We always had to show our kids birth certificates when they were flying as lap babies. In fact we had to argue with a ticket counter once because my daughter was due to turn 2 in two or three days(can't remember which) AFTER we arrived back home. Proof was right there on the birth certificate but she was doubting it. My kids are tiny and there was no way she passed for two when she was even two lol!
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 28, 2024 10:24:44 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2017 14:24:48 GMT
What I am still trying to figure out is how they got the 2 year old on as a 'lap child', when Delta requires a purchased ticket (no discount either!) for anyone 24 months or older. Pretty sure it's the obvious answer - lying. I've seen some really, really big lap "babies" - and as I have a son who's always been in the 90th to 97th percentile - I tend to think kids are younger than they appear. I'm not sure how big your child would have to be before they'd ask for proof. So I'm left wondering if both little kids were lap babies on the flight to Hawaii and they decided that was too much hassle; sent the teen home a day early and brought the car seat so one of the lap babies could occupy the seat. If that is the case, I think Delta acted appropriately and the family should be offering the apology for trying to capitalize on the bad airline narrative.
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tracylynn
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,899
Jun 26, 2014 22:49:09 GMT
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Post by tracylynn on May 5, 2017 14:42:14 GMT
They weren't booted for another paying passenger. Yes they were. That is why the airline told them they needed the seat in the first place. And then when they wouldn't put their baby on their lap, so another passenger could sit in the seat they paid for, they were told that the whole family had to deplane. The seat they were trying to sit their kid in wasn't their seat anymore. The 18 year old flew a different flight, they didn't cancel his ticket. They forfeited that seat. They were kicked off the plane for not complying with the rules.
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tracylynn
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,899
Jun 26, 2014 22:49:09 GMT
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Post by tracylynn on May 5, 2017 14:43:55 GMT
I think that there is a HUGE difference between a family that wants to use tickets it purchased for children in their own family and someone who hands out tickets "Willy-nilly." But, if it pleases people to expand this beyond common sense, by all means, go for it. It's not expanding beyond common sense. It's following the rules. You may not like the rules, but it doesn't change that this family was trying to get around the rules.
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tracylynn
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,899
Jun 26, 2014 22:49:09 GMT
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Post by tracylynn on May 5, 2017 14:46:01 GMT
A seat for a DIFFERENT passenger who was not on the plane. It is disingenuous at best to leave that out. I'm again disgusted by the media and so called "journalism" that it's being reported that their baby's seat that they'd paid for was taken away. No it wasn't. The passenger of the seat was a no-show and was reassigned. Their LAP baby who did not have a purchased seat was asked to be placed on their parents lap. And my opinion is that it is disingenuous to pretend that this wasn't a seat purchased by THIS family for THEIR personal use. Not for profit. Not for terrorism. I think that your spin is just as dishonest, if not more so, and is in the name of airline greed. Yes, Delta would get at least $200 extra for that seat to reissue it, if not the full cost. That is GREED, pure and simple. They care not a whit for safety, in this case. If $200 is so inconsequential to you, I have a long list of charities that I'd love you to send $200 checks to, and I think that they would be grateful. If they really cared about safety in the first place they would have bought the seat for the 2 year old to begin with. And did you miss the part where they carried the child on their lap on the way to Hawaii? Dad just wanted to be able to sleep on the red eye home and this was his way around having to hold a child.
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bethany102399
Pearl Clutcher
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Oct 11, 2014 3:17:29 GMT
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Post by bethany102399 on May 5, 2017 14:47:04 GMT
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tracylynn
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,899
Jun 26, 2014 22:49:09 GMT
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Post by tracylynn on May 5, 2017 14:47:59 GMT
At the end of video I watched the dad ask if they could remove the car seat & then he would just hold the 2yo so that the plane could leave. The lady told them no that the decision was made for them all to leave the plane. Right, because he'd gone too far at that point. Once the decision is made to remove them, the flight crew has no control over the situation, it's a done deal. He should have complied to begin with.
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Post by cmpeter on May 5, 2017 14:55:20 GMT
The das also couldn't hold the 2 year old on his lap because 2 and over requires a seat.
The family was completely in the wrong. Delta threatening them with jail time and their kids being removed was also wrong. But, they weren't wrong for removing them from the plane.
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used2scrap
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,077
Jan 29, 2016 3:02:55 GMT
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Post by used2scrap on May 5, 2017 15:06:10 GMT
amp.usatoday.com/story/101319634/Some excerpts below Delta apologizes after California family booted from flight Facebook Twitter Email Associated Press 1 hour ago LOS ANGELES - Delta Air Lines is offering refunds and compensation to a California family that says they were forced off a plane and threatened with jail after refusing to give up one of their seats on a crowded flight. “We are sorry for the unfortunate experience our customers had with Delta, and we’ve reached out to them to refund their travel and provide additional compensation,” the statement read. Delta said its goal is to work with customers to resolve travel issues, “that did not happen in this case and we apologize.”
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Post by elaine on May 5, 2017 15:30:43 GMT
And my opinion is that it is disingenuous to pretend that this wasn't a seat purchased by THIS family for THEIR personal use. Not for profit. Not for terrorism. I think that your spin is just as dishonest, if not more so, and is in the name of airline greed. Yes, Delta would get at least $200 extra for that seat to reissue it, if not the full cost. That is GREED, pure and simple. They care not a whit for safety, in this case. If $200 is so inconsequential to you, I have a long list of charities that I'd love you to send $200 checks to, and I think that they would be grateful. If they really cared about safety in the first place they would have bought the seat for the 2 year old to begin with. And did you miss the part where they carried the child on their lap on the way to Hawaii? Dad just wanted to be able to sleep on the red eye home and this was his way around having to hold a child. They had TWO kids - YOU must have missed that part. A 2 year old with her own seat and a 1 year old that they were using for the other seat they paid for.
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PaperAngel
Prolific Pea
Posts: 7,796
Jun 27, 2014 23:04:06 GMT
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Post by PaperAngel on May 5, 2017 16:24:33 GMT
Given the adult child had two tickets issued in his name, rather than one transferred to the earlier flight, I suspect the seat on this flight had already been flagged by the airline. Either this incident was a misunderstanding & the family didn't read the fine print OR they're overly entitled & thought the rules didn't apply or could be bended for them. When you fly, you have to have ID and be accounted for. Can you imagine if a plane crashes and people just decided to use their brother's or another family member's or anyone else's ticket for that flight--how do officials account for who is on that airplane? And can you imagine the clusterf!ck of lawsuits after that crash? "Hey, my uncle was on that flight, he was using his sister's ticket....." even though there is absolutely no record of him having been on the flight. You also can't ignore the possibility of a terrorist handing over a ticket to a relative with the same last name. One of whom might be on the no-fly list, the other not. It's just not the way an airline can handle those situations. They must have proof of the people who are actually on board. They never have proof/ID for passengers under 18 on domestic flights, even when they have their own seats. False. Our child has always flown first class & with a passport or state-issued ID; otherwise a birth certificate is required.
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Post by lucillebluth on May 5, 2017 16:27:56 GMT
If they really cared about safety in the first place they would have bought the seat for the 2 year old to begin with. And did you miss the part where they carried the child on their lap on the way to Hawaii? Dad just wanted to be able to sleep on the red eye home and this was his way around having to hold a child. They had TWO kids - YOU must have missed that part. A 2 year old with her own seat and a 1 year old that they were using for the other seat they paid for. I don't think that's right. According to the news report, they bought 3 tickets--for the parents and the older son. Neither of the younger children had a seat. They were going to put one of them in the older son's seat and hold the other one.
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Post by lucillebluth on May 5, 2017 16:29:46 GMT
They never have proof/ID for passengers under 18 on domestic flights, even when they have their own seats. False. Our child has always flown first class & with a passport or state-issued ID; otherwise, a birth certificate is required. We've never brought birth certificates for our kids and have never had a problem.
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Post by epeanymous on May 5, 2017 16:33:20 GMT
They never have proof/ID for passengers under 18 on domestic flights, even when they have their own seats. False. Our child has always flown first class & with a passport or state-issued ID; otherwise, a birth certificate is required. I have been flying with kids several times a year for 14+ years and, unless I am flying internationally, have never once been asked for any form of identification or birth certificate for any child, ever, at any airport.
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amom23
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,401
Jun 27, 2014 12:39:18 GMT
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Post by amom23 on May 5, 2017 16:36:37 GMT
False. Our child has always flown first class & with a passport or state-issued ID; otherwise, a birth certificate is required. I have been flying with kids several times a year for 14+ years and, unless I am flying internationally, have never once been asked for any form of identification or birth certificate for any child, ever, at any airport. Me either.
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PaperAngel
Prolific Pea
Posts: 7,796
Jun 27, 2014 23:04:06 GMT
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Post by PaperAngel on May 5, 2017 16:39:26 GMT
lucillebluth, epeanymous, & amom23: It appears the rules must have changed or was limited to the specific airport or airline (which has since merged). Before we first flew with our child over a decade ago, we were told children needed a birth certificate, state-issued ID, or passport, whether a lap rider or occupying an individual seat. He has always produced either his passport or state-issued ID, meaning the airlines/airports have a record of at least my minor!
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Post by Darcy Collins on May 5, 2017 16:40:36 GMT
They had TWO kids - YOU must have missed that part. A 2 year old with her own seat and a 1 year old that they were using for the other seat they paid for. I don't think that's right. According to the news report, they bought 3 tickets--for the parents and the older son. Neither of the younger children had a seat. They were going to put one of them in the older son's seat and hold the other one. Unfortunately the reporting on this is abysmal. Some articles say both were lap babies. One said they bought 4 tickets (which would mean the 2 year old who I think was actually the daughter, did have a paid for seat). Who the hell cares what the facts are, it's better to just put out the quick click bait of baby's kicked out of seat. You're guaranteed lots of outrage without most caring what the facts are and the family can get a check from the airline who just wants the whole thing to go away.
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