Deleted
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Jun 27, 2024 14:24:27 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2017 14:50:55 GMT
I would have thought accommodations, activities and food would have been covered by the host unless all were specifically addressed with the parents beforehand or they had offered to pay for these things. You mentioned that she agreed to pay for her son's share, but perhaps you weren't clear on what excursions that included and that you would have to rent a larger villa to accommodate her son. Also, was her son the only one to benefit from the use of that larger villa? A larger villa tends to benefit everyone staying there. Honestly, I think I would have been a bit shocked to receive a $700 bill, especially if I am frugal and never spend money on vacations. It was absolutely her fault for not asking how much it would cost to include her son, but I don't think I would take someone's child on a bunch of excursions and expect them to pay for that and a upgrade on the villa without letting them know they would be responsible for those costs.
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Deleted
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Jun 27, 2024 14:24:27 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2017 14:53:32 GMT
I don't think you're wrong and more so from this that was in your original post
She should have asked then what she was expected to pay for.
If I'm understanding this correctly you had to get an extra room to accommodate the friend's son which, if he wasn't with you, it wouldn't have been necessary. Did she not work this out herself?
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Post by Darcy Collins on May 8, 2017 14:54:03 GMT
This is where I sit, too, I think. It's uncomfortable to me when people start reconciling expenses very carefully and we're friends, unless we've agreed to exactly that prior to the excursion or event. Even then, that is something to do with strangers, not family or friends, in my opinion. (I also don't "sell" things to people I know, so I know I'm a bit different there.) To me, friends don't charge a BFF to take their child on vacation. However you guys did agree that money would be exchanged, and it sounds like your friend expected you to either not follow or ask for some small symbolic amount. I do know that sometimes there's a particular expensive activity and the hosting family will accept reimbursement for that cost - park fees and flights seem to be the ones that crop up in my circle. Friends of ours with an only child took a couple friends with them to Florida for a week, they invited my son, but he had other commitments. They were upfront that they were hoping he could join them and food and accommodation would be covered, but were asking that we pay for the flight and week long Disney ticket. I've heard of other friends and trips and the host often doesn't pick up airfare. But as always, everything should be communicated beforehand.
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Post by Really Red on May 8, 2017 14:56:17 GMT
Wow. I'd be sick, too. I'm sorry. It's always good to be absolutely sure up front, as you clearly now know.
I would have paid for the accommodations regardless. I probably would have paid for the food as well. I don't offer those things unless I am willing to pay for the whole thing. I'm a single parent with not a lot of money, so I'm careful about that stuff, but I do weigh the cost against my child having a better time because someone their age is present. Particularly that young age, when they don't eat so much.
OTOH, if I were your friend, no way in HELL would I argue over $200. I would pay it and think that is a very small sum for a lovely vacation for my child (I know there was more, but that's the disputed amount).
So I think she's wrong to do this to you and you should not have asked her. You've already apologized. I'd do it one more time and say it's a stupid amount to be think about (on your part) and her son was charming and you were happy to have him along.
Sorry about all this.
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Post by myshelly on May 8, 2017 14:56:49 GMT
If I invited a child to go on vacation, I would expect to pay for at least some of his costs, especially the accommodations. You invited him. He's your guest.
You say in the OP this child's mom was going to pay for "his expenses". I would not have thought that would include accommodations. To me that would mean food and activities.
I wonder if asking the mom to pay for accommodations doesn't seem to her like asking her to subsidize part of your vacation and that's why she's upset.
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bethany102399
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,560
Oct 11, 2014 3:17:29 GMT
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Post by bethany102399 on May 8, 2017 14:57:11 GMT
I am assuming that the friend is Japanese, if so then cultural differences need to be considered and her expectations may have been different to what has occurred. So it's just the accommodations she has an issue with? I'm not wondering if this is a cultural difference. Can you be blunt with her and explain that you were unaware of the expectation? or would that just make things worse?
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Post by bc2ca on May 8, 2017 14:57:33 GMT
I'm so sorry you were obviously on different pages about how expenses were being covered.
We've been on both sides of this situation and have never asked for reimbursement for accommodation or food. My view is that I'm making the decisions on where we stay and what we eat and include the cost of any extra child in my budget. TBH, I wouldn't have rented a 3 bedroom villa over a 2 bedroom because of an extra child - the kids would have shared a room.
I definitely offer to pay for activities and always send my child with money for souvenirs. We've never had to deal with airfare and I would definitely cover that expense for my child.
DD has vacationed a number of times with a single child family and the other mom jokes that she wants to pay me for letting my DD come along and entertain their DD.
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Post by elaine on May 8, 2017 15:01:03 GMT
If I invite the child, I expect to cover all the costs except souvenirs. I would never accept reimbursement.
Part of the reason you ask your son's friend is so that he has a better time on the vacation and so that you and your husband don't have to spend as much time trying to entertain him. So, you got something out of bringing the son too.
When you told her: "We agreed that we would buy everything he needed in Bali, and then we would let her know the total on our return and she would reimburse us." I would assume that you meant only souvenirs. It is a language thing - for me, one "pays" for accommodations and food and "buys" souvenirs. If you said you would "pay" for everything and then want reimbursement for all of it, that would mean something different - to me - than what you told us you said. Since apparently she speaks English, she may have misunderstood what you meant too.
Chalk it up as a learning experience and next time either expect to pay for the invited guest or be clear on what you expect to be reimbursed for ahead of time.
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Post by myshelly on May 8, 2017 15:05:36 GMT
If I invite the child, I expect to cover all the costs except souvenirs. I would never accept reimbursement. Part of the reason you ask your son's friend is so that he has a better time on the vacation and so that you and your husband don't have to spend as much time trying to entertain him. So, you got something out of bringing the son too. When you told her: "We agreed that we would buy everything he needed in Bali, and then we would let her know the total on our return and she would reimburse us." I would assume that you meant only souvenirs. It is a language thing - for me, one "pays" for accommodations and food and "buys" souvenirs. If you said you would "pay" for everything and then want reimbursement for all of it, that would mean something different - to me - than what you told us you said. Since apparently she speaks English, she may have misunderstood what you meant too. Chalk it up as a learning experience and next time either expect to pay for the invited guest or be clear on what you expect to be reimbursed for ahead of time. I agree with you about the buy/pay difference. I also think that cultural differences are at play here. If the friend is Japanese, they take being a host very seriously and would never expect to be reimbursed for anything by a guest. So it would seem offensive to her to ask for money after the fact for things that a host should have paid for. Remember that when you ask opinions on this board, you are getting opinions from mostly Americans and they might all mean diddly squat if your friend is Japanese.
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Post by Tammiem2pnc1 on May 8, 2017 15:08:14 GMT
I would think the host would pay for at least accommodations. I would not invite a child on vacation and then expect their parents to fully pay for everything. I would most likely pay for everything but souvenirs and if we couldn't afford that, then we wouldn't invite anyone to come along.
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likescarrots
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,879
Aug 16, 2014 17:52:53 GMT
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Post by likescarrots on May 8, 2017 15:10:30 GMT
Is your friend Japanese? If so, I would say it's a cultural thing. As host, you'd cover room and board. Anything else would be extra. We've been invited to Taiwan and while there, room and board was covered by the host.
from the responses it doesn't exactly look like a cultural thing, a number of US peas have agreed with the friend. I'm from the US and if i was inviting a kid on vacation i would expect to pay for everything except souvenirs.
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Post by gar on May 8, 2017 15:12:06 GMT
She probably didn't expect you to rent another room, assuming the children would share. Now we all know how dangerous assumptions are, and along with the vague discussions between you you're now in an unfortunate situation. I probably wouldn't expect a child I'd invited as a guest to have to pay for accommodation to be honest.
I hope you can work things out 🙂
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Post by compeateropeator on May 8, 2017 15:14:24 GMT
Unless specifically communicated I would not think that I would be paying for the accommodations if my child was invited to go on vacation with friends. I would expect to pay for excursions, souvenirs, transportation and possibly food.
If I thought I was responsible for accommodations I would expect a round number up front as that usually is something that is booked prior to. For example if I was inviting a friend to come with us I would say that it would be 200.00 for the room and then whatever other expenses were incurred.
I also would have expected the kids to share a room and if it wasn't possible and meant that we had to upgrade or rent another room, and I was not willing to pay the extra, I would not invite the friend or let them know upfront the cost of the room.
I think there was not great communication prior to the trip by both families and not enough questions were asked. I am sorry that your great vacation had to end on this note.
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queenofkings
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Jun 26, 2014 15:26:41 GMT
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Post by queenofkings on May 8, 2017 15:19:05 GMT
I don't know if you were right or wrong, but it sounds like miscommunication to me. If you value the friendship, I would find a way to let it go. I'd apologize for the misunderstanding and remember to be more direct the next time about expectations. I think it was reasonable for her to expect accommodations to be covered, though, honestly. For us, if we have invited someone along on vacation, I've only expected the other parents to cover souvenirs and spending money for extras. I would expect to cover accomadations and meals. The same has been expected when my son traveled with other families.
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Post by cmpeter on May 8, 2017 15:21:17 GMT
If I invite, then I would expect to pay all the costs associated with bringing the friend.
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ginacivey
Pearl Clutcher
refupea #2 in southeast missouri
Posts: 4,685
Jun 25, 2014 19:18:36 GMT
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Post by ginacivey on May 8, 2017 15:21:24 GMT
Part of the reason you ask your son's friend is so that he has a better time on the vacation and so that you and your husband don't have to spend as much time trying to entertain him. So, you got something out of bringing the son too. this - you got more than $200 in happiness for you son - him having a friend to hang out with and share experiences i have to ask tho - did you jot down every meal that the boy ate? i was the boy aware you were keeping track of his meals? i would have just asked for reimbursement for souvenirs and MAYBE the extra excursions - but if you son wanted to do them - it surely made it more fun to have a friend along for the ride gina
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Deleted
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Jun 27, 2024 14:24:27 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2017 15:22:58 GMT
As the host I would have paid for food and accommodations. I would think the other parents would give their kid some spending money for souvenirs and snacks. Or if they didn't that's what they would have reimbursed you for along with any per person activity costs. I agree with a couple of pp who said the itemization of every single thing seems kind of petty for friends.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2017 15:23:37 GMT
I wouldn't have expected someone to rent a villa with an extra bedroom for my child - I would have expected that they would just share the room with the friend - same with a hotel. I'd say it's not an unreasonable expectation on her part that the child would be sharing with yours and you wouldn't have incurred additional charges. I think I'm right in saying that the OP has a daughter as well which makes me think that was the reason for a 3 rather than a 2 bed villa and the extra hotel room. Brother and sister might have been quite happy to share a room but having another non-relative male in the same room might not be acceptable to the daughter. So from that aspect I think the friend should have realized there would have been extra accommodation cost if they took the friend's son along with them.
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Post by scrapmaven on May 8, 2017 15:23:39 GMT
When a kid is at my house then they are treated like one of my own. If we go out I pay for the meal and entertainment. So, I would expect that I will pay for everything except souvenirs on a vacation. However, I would discuss this w/the child's mother and have a concrete agreement before going. I think it's your responsibility to pay for everything except souvenirs. Explain your dilemma to your friend and hopefully you can iron this out and move fwd with your friendship.
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Post by missbennet on May 8, 2017 15:31:56 GMT
Airfare does make it a little different, yes, I agree. Your comment about communication is right on. Separate from that, I do want to mention that Japanese culture uses very indirect verbal communication. For example, apologizing for something as a means of smoothing an interaction, or offering something the other party is supposed to know to refuse - but this often only works if both parties are Japanese or understand the subtext. If the BFF is Japanese and the OP is not, that might explain 90% of this misunderstanding between them. And if that is the case, I would not recommend the blunt approach.
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Post by annie on May 8, 2017 15:34:18 GMT
i have to ask tho - did you jot down every meal that the boy ate? The OP said this: "So, we kept a very detailed list of the food he ate at restaurants and the cost" I just can't imagine doing this. ![:(](//storage.proboards.com/5645536/images/mYSUyHtG9Jrcmm_ydVcK.jpg)
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Post by gritzi on May 8, 2017 15:35:54 GMT
What expenses were discussed when the child was asked to go on vacation w/your family? Honestly, I cannot imagine expecting a parent to pay for the accommodations plus most of the food. I *might* expect the friend to pay for scuba diving or something extra, but even then would be hesitant to bill them. Sadly, I suspect this will negatively affect your friendship ![:(](//storage.proboards.com/5645536/images/mYSUyHtG9Jrcmm_ydVcK.jpg)
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Post by Spongemom Scrappants on May 8, 2017 15:39:19 GMT
I have always covered the accommodations and food for any child invited to travel along with us. If activities are planned (especially expensive ones), unless it was made crystal clear to the child's parents beforehand that they would pay, I'd cover that, too.
I can see where the friend would never have assumed that would charge her for accommodations. It certainly wasn't clear from the wording you provided us. (And you do admit you should have been clearer on that.)
This whole experience becomes a lesson learned for all parties.
And, may I just add? The meticulous accounting of the child's expenses rubs me the wrong way. I'm betting you did it out of good intentions to show clearly what the reimbursements were for, but from her perspective it may seem different. It almost reads as if you don't want to be one extra cent out of pocket for taking her child along. I can see where she might have bristled at that.
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Post by cindyupnorth on May 8, 2017 15:40:10 GMT
Is your friend Japanese? If so, I would say it's a cultural thing. As host, you'd cover room and board. Anything else would be extra. We've been invited to Taiwan and while there, room and board was covered by the host.
from the responses it doesn't exactly look like a cultural thing, a number of US peas have agreed with the friend. I'm from the US and if i was inviting a kid on vacation i would expect to pay for everything except souvenirs. yea, I'm not seeing the cultural thing at all! Most of us are saying she should have paid for everything. I don't think anyone is saying the OP was right?! so where is the cultural difference??
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Post by lisacharlotte on May 8, 2017 15:41:32 GMT
Unless spelled out upfront, I would expect the host to pay for the trip. Otherwise the parent has no clue how much the trip is going to cost and no control over the expenses.
I'm also a little put off by the tracking of all the meals and cost. It's petty and nitpicking from someone who wasn't that detailed with the invite.
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julieb
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,845
Jul 3, 2014 16:02:54 GMT
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Post by julieb on May 8, 2017 15:52:35 GMT
We've taken numerous extra kids on vacation with us. Never have we, nor would we expect reimbursement for any costs of meals or accomodations associated with it. One time was each of our kids brought a friend to Disney with us (so 6 kids/teenagers instead of 3). We camped and paid for their meals. The parents bought the park entry tickets, because that would have been too much $$ for us.
We also took one of my dd's friends on a cruise with us. Needless to say, that was all inclusive and the parents paid for the cruise, but we paid for any meal we ate while off the boat.
I think you are wrong if you didn't discuss ahead of time.
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Post by stargazer on May 8, 2017 15:54:56 GMT
I feel that if there were fixed costs like the accommodation that I was expected to pay then I would have expected to know about them up front. I can see her covering souvenirs & activity expenses later (or telling you how much she was willing to spend). Personally I would have covered his food & not passed on that cost.
As a teenager I went on a skiing holiday with another family & my parents paid all costs. I also went to America with a different family & my parents paid for flights & paid an agreed amount towards other costs.
As a parent we have taken friends on holiday & covered all costs but have only do so when that wouldn't incur extra accommodation costs.
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Post by frenchie on May 8, 2017 16:07:03 GMT
We have taken the kids' friends on trips. When we offer to take the friends, it's with the understanding that we will cover everything. I would never offer to take a child with and then expect reimbursement. I think if you did, then you should have been crystal-clear on the terms before you left. This.
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Post by mom on May 8, 2017 16:08:33 GMT
I have always covered the accommodations and food for any child invited to travel along with us. If activities are planned (especially expensive ones), unless it was made crystal clear to the child's parents beforehand that they would pay, I'd cover that, too. I can see where the friend would never have assumed that would charge her for accommodations. It certainly wasn't clear from the wording you provided us. (And you do admit you should have been clearer on that.) This whole experience becomes a lesson learned for all parties. And, may I just add? The meticulous accounting of the child's expenses rubs me the wrong way. I'm betting you did it out of good intentions to show clearly what the reimbursements were for, but from her perspective it may seem different. It almost reads as if you don't want to be one extra cent out of pocket for taking her child along. I can see where she might have bristled at that. I agree with this completely. SaveSave
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Post by mom on May 8, 2017 16:10:06 GMT
Unless spelled out upfront, I would expect the host to pay for the trip. Otherwise the parent has no clue how much the trip is going to cost and no control over the expenses. I'm also a little put off by the tracking of all the meals and cost. It's petty and nitpicking from someone who wasn't that detailed with the invite. All of this. SaveSave
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