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Post by elaine on May 9, 2017 3:28:24 GMT
FWIW, I think that psychologically/etiquette-wise there is a big difference between voluntarily fighting for a bill at a restaurant, or voluntarily forcing reimbursement on someone for a donut, and being handed the bill from the person who you went to dinner with or being handed a bill for a donut from another parent with the attached demand that the other person pay.
I don't think that there are cultural differences, as evidenced on this thread, between Japan and USA in terms of expectations regarding hosts paying for their kids' invited friends on vacation.
I do think that misstepping in terms of social etiquette regarding the dance of reimbursement may have cultural differences.
I hope that you will be able to have a heart-to-heart with your friend and since she has a Western husband, she will get it and you'll both move beyond it quickly.
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Post by worrywart on May 9, 2017 3:29:41 GMT
I'm sorry about the mixup. Yes, I would have paid for a friend of my child to go with us on a trip but at the same time the parent should at least send some spending money.
I would definitely apologize for the misunderstanding. Hopefully, you can stay friends and put it behind you. The fact that you are asking for opinions and feel worked up over it shows that your heart is in the right place. (((hugs)))
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Grom Pea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,944
Jun 27, 2014 0:21:07 GMT
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Post by Grom Pea on May 9, 2017 5:25:30 GMT
FWIW, I think that psychologically/etiquette-wise there is a big difference between voluntarily fighting for a bill at a restaurant, or voluntarily forcing reimbursement on someone for a donut, and being handed the bill from the person who you went to dinner with or being handed a bill for a donut from another parent with the attached demand that the other person pay. I don't think that there are cultural differences, as evidenced on this thread, between Japan and USA in terms of expectations regarding hosts paying for their kids' invited friends on vacation. I do think that misstepping in terms of social etiquette regarding the dance of reimbursement may have cultural differences. I hope that you will be able to have a heart-to-heart with your friend and since she has a Western husband, she will get it and you'll both move beyond it quickly. I agree, had my parents been the op, they would have paid the trip and insisted on not being reimbursed at least two times before reluctantly allowing the person insisting to reimburse them. By presenting the total up front that sidestepped the whole show of etiquette, e.g. My aunt had an 80th birthday and her sons planned it but they handed the bill straight to her. She was upset because even though she was planning to pay and would have insisted upon it, she wanted them to offer. Even though what they did had the same end result (mom pays) mom was upset that her kids didn't do the formal etiquette dance with her. I don't think what op did was wrong it was just very different that what her friend was used to handling. That is if Japanese and Chinese custom is similar.
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cycworker
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,378
Jun 26, 2014 0:42:38 GMT
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Post by cycworker on May 9, 2017 6:44:04 GMT
Grom Pea - thanks for that. Now you've got me second guessing my memory as to whether or not I gave my sister in law's mom money for my parent's 50th wedding anniversary cake. She ordered it for me, but I had said I wanted to pay for it. I know for sure I offered. I can't remember if I prevailed though in getting her to take the $. In all seriousness - their daughter just graduated from university. I was going to just send her a card, and now I'm thinking I need to send her $50-$100, because I have a feeling I never did pay for that cake, and I promised myself I would, as it was bad enough I couldn't afford the cost of all the party food (it was a group effort - aunts, brother's MIL, friend all brought things or ordered trays). My parents, my responsibility. I mean, technically our parents. But I'm the oldest.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 27, 2024 14:44:01 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2017 8:38:16 GMT
We have taken the kids' friends on trips. When we offer to take the friends, it's with the understanding that we will cover everything. I would never offer to take a child with and then expect reimbursement. I think if you did, then you should have been crystal-clear on the terms before you left. This. We've taken friends' kids before and I've never ever totaled up a detailed bill. If that was the plan, you should have agreed that upfront, but now you're too late. If you had to buy extra accommodation, then it would have been reasonable for them to pay for that, but you should have told them. If someone invites my kid to come along, I would never ever EVER expect to be handed a 700$ bill. My middle kid went along with another family. I offered to pay for his accommodation, they refused. I sent him off with money in his pocket to hand to the mom, and told her to it was to cover any possible expenses. He returned with the majority of it still in his wallet. I took a kid with us last year. We covered everything. I mean, we *invited* her.
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Post by gar on May 9, 2017 9:29:44 GMT
The thing is when you invite someone to something, it's as a treat/something nice for them, at your expense. That's inherent in the nature of an invitation in its simplest form. If you then ask them to pay for every little thing it's no longer you treating them.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 27, 2024 14:44:01 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2017 11:19:23 GMT
I forgot to say - I'm so sorry you're in this situation, Kokeshi. It was nice of you to take the kid along, and it sucks that this whole thing came up. Hugs to you!
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 27, 2024 14:44:01 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2017 11:47:14 GMT
Thanks again everyone. I've had a chance to sleep on it and discussed all your responses with DH. Although he's still not convinced we should cover all costs (which is odd because I'm the frugal one, and he's the big spender!!) He does concede that despite some casual communication beforehand, we committed a huge faux pas and need to make amends. I'm going to email her tomorrow with another heartfelt apology and take full responsibility for my mistake. I'm not going to take any money for the vacation at all - it's just not even worth accepting any. Rebuilding our friendship is far more important than the money.
I actually can't believe I've been a pea for 13 years, read so many tacky invites, and made such a big etiquette mistake myself. I wouldn't be surprised if she's on a Japanese message board complaining about her weird western friend!
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Post by elaine on May 9, 2017 11:52:08 GMT
Thanks again everyone. I've had a chance to sleep on it and discussed all your responses with DH. Although he's still not convinced we should cover all costs (which is odd because I'm the frugal one, and he's the big spender!!) He does concede that despite some casual communication beforehand, we committed a huge faux pas and need to make amends. I'm going to email her tomorrow with another heartfelt apology and take full responsibility for my mistake. I'm not going to take any money for the vacation at all - it's just not even worth accepting any. Rebuilding our friendship is far more important than the money. I actually can't believe I've been a pea for 13 years, read so many tacky invites, and made such a big etiquette mistake myself. I wouldn't be surprised if she's on a Japanese message board complaining about her weird western friend! I really admire you - you have shown so much grace on this thread. Your friend is lucky to have you in her life.
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Post by LisaDV on May 9, 2017 12:02:51 GMT
Agreeing with most peas, I would have expected to pay for accommodations, food, and any excursion fees. Spending money would be up to the child's family.
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Post by mellowyellow on May 9, 2017 12:11:59 GMT
Thanks again everyone. I've had a chance to sleep on it and discussed all your responses with DH. Although he's still not convinced we should cover all costs (which is odd because I'm the frugal one, and he's the big spender!!) He does concede that despite some casual communication beforehand, we committed a huge faux pas and need to make amends. I'm going to email her tomorrow with another heartfelt apology and take full responsibility for my mistake. I'm not going to take any money for the vacation at all - it's just not even worth accepting any. Rebuilding our friendship is far more important than the money. I actually can't believe I've been a pea for 13 years, read so many tacky invites, and made such a big etiquette mistake myself. I wouldn't be surprised if she's on a Japanese message board complaining about her weird western friend! Aww don't be so hard on yourself. You sound like an amazing friend and I am betting this will all blow over real soon! Big hugs!
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Post by gar on May 9, 2017 12:12:53 GMT
Good for you @kokeshidoll 🙂
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on May 9, 2017 12:24:44 GMT
@kokeshidoll You are a kind and thoughtful person. I am sure your friendship will weather this storm. Whenever money is involved it gets awkward.
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pudgygroundhog
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,646
Location: The Grand Canyon
Jun 25, 2014 20:18:39 GMT
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Post by pudgygroundhog on May 9, 2017 13:22:59 GMT
Thanks again everyone. I've had a chance to sleep on it and discussed all your responses with DH. Although he's still not convinced we should cover all costs (which is odd because I'm the frugal one, and he's the big spender!!) He does concede that despite some casual communication beforehand, we committed a huge faux pas and need to make amends. I'm going to email her tomorrow with another heartfelt apology and take full responsibility for my mistake. I'm not going to take any money for the vacation at all - it's just not even worth accepting any. Rebuilding our friendship is far more important than the money. I actually can't believe I've been a pea for 13 years, read so many tacky invites, and made such a big etiquette mistake myself. I wouldn't be surprised if she's on a Japanese message board complaining about her weird western friend! You've been very graceful in your responses here. I'm glad you are feeling better about the situation. You're a good friend and I'm sure your friendship will weather this - the open communication is a positive.
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Post by auntkelly on May 9, 2017 13:23:02 GMT
I hope everything works out between you and your friend. I've had issues with friends before and found that when you get those issues worked out the friendship becomes stronger than ever.
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Post by mikewozowski on May 9, 2017 14:21:15 GMT
we have taken other kids with us. we never have them pay for any part of the room, but if adding them would cause up to have to get another room, we wouldn't invite them.
if we are going somewhere where that activity costs a lot (ski rentals and lift tickets which this last trip was about 750 for one person) we do have them pay for their own but make this known at the time of invite. one kids mom just sent an envelope with money and i kept a tab. then i took out what her part was and sent the envelope home with the leftover money. no complaints.
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Post by chaosisapony on May 9, 2017 14:28:02 GMT
We have taken the kids' friends on trips. When we offer to take the friends, it's with the understanding that we will cover everything. I would never offer to take a child with and then expect reimbursement. I think if you did, then you should have been crystal-clear on the terms before you left. As a kid, whenever I went somewhere with my best friend's family, they always covered all the costs as I was their invited guest. So I would do the same thing if I invited someone's kid somewhere. Reimbursement for activities I can understand but accommodations and food I would never expect reimbursement for.
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PrettyInPeank
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,691
Jun 25, 2014 21:31:58 GMT
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Post by PrettyInPeank on May 9, 2017 15:10:51 GMT
I wish you the best! If you want help with your email, you know we're here to help. Good luck!
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Post by giatocj on May 9, 2017 15:23:41 GMT
I'm in the camp of "I pay accommodations and food". But in all honesty, I cover everything, except maybe an airline ticket if we were to fly somewhere. I do expect the parents to provide spending money for the kid for souvenirs and whatever, but that's about all I expect financially.
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Post by Susie_Homemaker on May 9, 2017 16:00:31 GMT
Rebuilding our friendship is far more important than the money. Be sure and say something like that to her- although I'm sure you will! You sound like a very kind and thoughtful friend. I hope that this will just a blip on the radar of your friendship and ya'll can put it behind you.
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Post by monicad on May 10, 2017 3:51:59 GMT
That's why I could never leave this board--I love the advice that comes from people of all different backgrounds and experiences. Thanks for the update @kokeshidoll...you're a good friend.
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