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Post by myshelly on May 8, 2017 16:10:17 GMT
I have always covered the accommodations and food for any child invited to travel along with us. If activities are planned (especially expensive ones), unless it was made crystal clear to the child's parents beforehand that they would pay, I'd cover that, too. I can see where the friend would never have assumed that would charge her for accommodations. It certainly wasn't clear from the wording you provided us. (And you do admit you should have been clearer on that.) This whole experience becomes a lesson learned for all parties. And, may I just add? The meticulous accounting of the child's expenses rubs me the wrong way. I'm betting you did it out of good intentions to show clearly what the reimbursements were for, but from her perspective it may seem different. It almost reads as if you don't want to be one extra cent out of pocket for taking her child along. I can see where she might have bristled at that. I agree with this completely. SaveSaveYes. I agree with this as well. It would have rubbed me the wrong way. I wouldn't expect that level of nickel and diming from a friend.
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on May 8, 2017 16:11:17 GMT
That was my thread. After reading the responses. I called the Mom and simply asked how much money she would like me to give her for the weekend. She said that the accommodation and transportation would not cost them any more than if my daughter didn't come, and they would be having a few meals out so to send her with some money for that. Which I did and the money was returned. I think in your type of situation, I might ask for any expenses that would occur if the child was not with you. I would expect the parents to pay for a flight and maybe help with the second hotel room but not the villas. I would pick up any meals out. If agreed to before hand I might ask the parents to pay for scuba diving etc. As those are direct expenses that you would not have occurred. If your intent in bringing the kid along was to have a friend for your kid.. then I am less likely to ask the other parent to pay. If it is more like let me help give your kid a vacation then I as the other parent would expect to pay. Tricky issue.
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Post by hollymolly on May 8, 2017 16:14:07 GMT
My opinion rests on whether you invited the child or the parents asked you to take him with you. There is quite a difference between the two.
If you brought up the vacation to her with the intention of asking her son to go along, and you extended an invitation, then you should have paid for everything except souvenirs. Possibly excepting extra activities, but only if the activity wasn't something already planned for your son. I could see accepting money for a major expense like airfare and/or multi-day Disney tickets, but that would be mentioned as part of the invitation: "If you could provide his airfare and Disney ticket, we would really love to have him join us."
If the other parent asked you to bring her son, or suggested that it might be fun, or in any way broached the topic of her son joining you without you expressly asking first, then you have the right to negotiate how much re-payment is acceptable to you in return for allowing him to join your vacation. If it's going to throw off your budget, then you say, "He can join us, but we would need help covering his expenses." Even then, I wouldn't ask them to cover every expense. You and your family, especially your son, benefited from having him along. That is worth extra expense on your part. It's up to you to decide how much. If it is going to be a chore to take him along, or your vacation budget is too tight to allow for any extra, then you say "I'm sorry but that's not going to work for us."
Personally, I avoid any kind of financial transactions between friends. People are funny about money. I don't like any kind of "pay me back" situation because there are always issues. If you find someone is always taking advantage of you financially, i.e. always letting you pay and never returning the favor, then you know that is not someone who respects your friendship and you limit your time with them. Friends do things for each other, and most of the time it balances out. If I've paid a little more over time, how is that different than buying a gift for my friend? When you keep careful track to make sure no one pays more than they owe, then you are saying that you value money over your friendship.
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Kerri W
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Jun 25, 2014 20:31:44 GMT
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Post by Kerri W on May 8, 2017 16:15:09 GMT
We have taken the kids' friends on trips. When we offer to take the friends, it's with the understanding that we will cover everything. I would never offer to take a child with and then expect reimbursement. I think if you did, then you should have been crystal-clear on the terms before you left. This has been our experience as well. Whether we are taking the friend on our vacation or our kids have gone on vacation with another family, the family takes care of basically everything but souvenirs. It they were doing a large excursion (or had an expensive ticket like Disney) I would definitely offer to pay, but it would definitely be discussed prior to going.
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Post by missbennet on May 8, 2017 16:23:40 GMT
I'll circle back here with a link if the BFF is indeed Japanese - adding to my previous comment. American directness and the Japanese - written by someone who is Japanese.I have experienced this and also had it explained to me by Japanese friends and colleagues - there's a lot of inference and unspoken "understandings" that are sometimes not very clear at all. Maybe even if the friend is not Japanese, some people communicate this way regardless of nationality.
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Post by hollymolly on May 8, 2017 16:28:24 GMT
And, may I just add? The meticulous accounting of the child's expenses rubs me the wrong way. I'm betting you did it out of good intentions to show clearly what the reimbursements were for, but from her perspective it may seem different. It almost reads as if you don't want to be one extra cent out of pocket for taking her child along. I can see where she might have bristled at that. From the kid's point of view: When I was about 13 or 14, a friend asked me to join her family on a vacation. Her parents, well mostly her mother, kept careful track of everything I cost them and made sure I paid my portion. They always pointed out to the waiter that there would be two checks, one for all of them and one for me. I did not feel like a guest, I felt like an unwanted tag-along. I know my friend was happy to have me there, but the rest of the family made me feel unwelcome and it was very uncomfortable.
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Deleted
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Sept 28, 2024 8:23:35 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2017 16:28:55 GMT
If I did the inviting, I'd expect to pay at least his lodging. And you wrote that he shared a room with your son. So that's an expense you were planning to incur already. Having her pay that expense comes across like you just want her to help you afford your vacation.
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The Birdhouse Lady
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Post by The Birdhouse Lady on May 8, 2017 16:29:57 GMT
I'm so sorry that you are having to deal with this and I hope you can work it out with your friend. Sounds like you both really enjoy your friendship.
As far as what I would have done is simply this...
If I invited the kid to go on vacation with us I would have fully expected to pay for all costs except spending money. It's not worth losing a friend over a few hundred bucks. When you invite someone to your house for dinner you don't expect them to pay for the cost of the groceries!
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georgiapea
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Post by georgiapea on May 8, 2017 16:35:54 GMT
I thought you meant she would reimburse you for the incidentals the boy bought - a surfboard or something. To learn you expected his mom to cover his meals and lodging costs was surprising. If you didn't specify that every expense in taking him along I am not surprised at her reaction. I wouldn't send my child with someone who was going to present me with a 700.00 bill for doing so.
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Deleted
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Sept 28, 2024 8:23:35 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2017 16:36:48 GMT
If I did the inviting, I'd expect to pay at least his lodging. And you wrote that he shared a room with your son. So that's an expense you were planning to incur already. Having her pay that expense comes across like you just want her to help you afford your vacation. Actually, I believe because the extra child was along, they had to spring for bigger accommodations than if just her, her dh and their child. Although, I'm really not quite sure why.
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AnotherPea
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Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
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Post by AnotherPea on May 8, 2017 16:44:58 GMT
If I did the inviting, I'd expect to pay at least his lodging. And you wrote that he shared a room with your son. So that's an expense you were planning to incur already. Having her pay that expense comes across like you just want her to help you afford your vacation. Actually, I believe because the extra child was along, they had to spring for bigger accommodations than if just her, her dh and their child. Although, I'm really not quite sure why. Just guessing here, but I suspect it is to avoid the guest spending the night in the same room as the father. I've taken my dd's friend with us as a girls trip and shared one room. Had my husband gone, we would have had two rooms.
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Post by MichyM on May 8, 2017 16:46:44 GMT
My son is an only child, so we took a friend with us on vacation many times. Parents paid for the plane ticket (if applicable), money for food, and incidentals (which I kept for the child but they had access to it any time they wanted). We always figured out beforehand what that cost was estimated to be, and stuck with it. I never kept detailed records of the costs, and I'd imagine that the parents portion never fully funded the cost of adding their child to our trip. We were always happy to have the child along.
For trips across the mountains to Lake Chelan (stayed in a condo and cooked most meals in) or up to Canada the costs were nominal. For trips to Disney, etc, it was higher. If I opted for a larger hotel room because of the additional child, I would not expect the other parents to pay.
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queenofkings
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Jun 26, 2014 15:26:41 GMT
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Post by queenofkings on May 8, 2017 16:50:40 GMT
If I did the inviting, I'd expect to pay at least his lodging. And you wrote that he shared a room with your son. So that's an expense you were planning to incur already. Having her pay that expense comes across like you just want her to help you afford your vacation. Actually, I believe because the extra child was along, they had to spring for bigger accommodations than if just her, her dh and their child. Although, I'm really not quite sure why. If I couldn't afford the extra expense for the extra room - and that is something you would know about beforehand - then I wouldn't have extended the invitation. To expect the other parent to cover half of an extra room cost seems excessive to me. Unless it was all spelled out for the parent at the time of the invitation what the expectation would be. I also agree that while an itemized 'bill' seems like you were trying to be helpful, it would come across a little petty.
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Post by Susie_Homemaker on May 8, 2017 16:53:48 GMT
. II explained that since her son came with us, we had to rent a 3 bedroom villa and two hotel rooms instead of one triple room. I'm curious why having an extra child increased the villa to 3 bedrooms? Did the boys not share a room? I think cultural differences might be a big factor in this misunderstanding. If you talk to her about it again I'd probably ask about that aspect of it. I don't think you should have asked for money for anything but his food (if that was agreed upon beforehand), souvenirs and activities. If you didn't talk about the food specifically beforehand then I would have paid for the friend's meals. I always send my DD with money and tell her to always offer to pay for her meal out but I don't think anyone has taken any money from her yet though.
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Post by Frazzled Mom on May 8, 2017 17:04:17 GMT
We've invited my children's friends on several vacations and never expected the other parents to pay us back for anything. The kids were only responsible for their own spending money.
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ginacivey
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Post by ginacivey on May 8, 2017 17:07:45 GMT
When I was about 13 or 14, a friend asked me to join her family on a vacation. Her parents, well mostly her mother, kept careful track of everything I cost them and made sure I paid my portion. They always pointed out to the waiter that there would be two checks, one for all of them and one for me. I did not feel like a guest, I felt like an unwanted tag-along. I know my friend was happy to have me there, but the rest of the family made me feel unwelcome and it was very uncomfortable. that's why i asked about 'noting' what the boy ate - a sixth grader is already feeling weird being on vaca with another family i sure hope this child didn't notice gina
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Deleted
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Sept 28, 2024 8:23:35 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2017 17:12:52 GMT
This is my thought too, specifically your reasoning for keeping track of his meals.
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Country Ham
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Jun 25, 2014 19:32:08 GMT
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Post by Country Ham on May 8, 2017 17:29:42 GMT
When I take my kids' friends with me anywhere any money I expect them to contribute is given to me up front. Anything above that I cover. For example... we take a van full of kids to the water park. Friend's parents give me the cost of the entrance ticket and food money up front. When we get there we decide to eat somewhere a bit more pricey then they gave money for. I am not going to nickle and dime them when I drop off their kids.
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Post by pealikecrazy on May 8, 2017 17:35:16 GMT
Don't cry and I'm sorry this happened. You have plenty of responses, but my thought is this... SOMETHING wasn't clear from the beginning. Is that her fault? Is that your fault? I'M NOT SURE and would never try to guess, but something was not clear. It is what it is (and I hate that saying). Learn from it? Tell her you are sorry for not clearly letting her know that she would be expected to pay for ALL of his expenses...regardless of what the Peas would do...you do YOU. Be honest with her. Tell her that you thought she understood the list would include the hotel. End of story. Blow it off. It's not a drama unless you make it one. Move forward. If she is angry, then re-think how you want to handle it.
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sharlag
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Jun 26, 2014 12:57:48 GMT
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Post by sharlag on May 8, 2017 17:36:38 GMT
I think it's just normal etiquette?! I don't. I haven't been in this situation, and therefore have no preconceived ideas about who should pay for what. This thread makes me think it's good to be VERY specific when making these sorts of plans.
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Post by anniefb on May 8, 2017 18:11:41 GMT
If it were me, I would not charge for the accommodations. I am not saying you are right or wrong. It's just what I would do. I would expect to be reimbursed for the cost of the activities and some of the food. You knew when he was invited, that you would need to book extra space. I am guessing your friend may not have realized that. It really was a miscommunication of expectations. Sorry you are in this predicament with your friend. That ^^
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scrappinmama
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Jun 26, 2014 12:54:09 GMT
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Post by scrappinmama on May 8, 2017 18:21:25 GMT
This is obviously going to vary by culture. Generally here, if you invite to take a friend on vacation, then you would pay. The invited friend would usually bring their own spending money. I'm sorry the misunderstanding happened. It does sound like you and the friend are talking, so hopefully you can patch this up.
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Post by kristi on May 8, 2017 18:28:31 GMT
We take the kids friends on vacation with us multiple times a year. I pay for everything but their souvenirs.
If someone takes my child, I offer to pay but the other families always cover it.
I liken it to having a birthday party and telling people to pay for their own food.
The host should cover all expenses or not invite.
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Post by Sam on May 8, 2017 18:32:02 GMT
Don't cry and I'm sorry this happened. You have plenty of responses, but my thought is this... SOMETHING wasn't clear from the beginning. Is that her fault? Is that your fault? I'M NOT SURE and would never try to guess, but something was not clear. It is what it is (and I hate that saying). Learn from it? Tell her you are sorry for not clearly letting her know that she would be expected to pay for ALL of his expenses...regardless of what the Peas would do...you do YOU. Be honest with her. Tell her that you thought she understood the list would include the hotel. End of story. Blow it off. It's not a drama unless you make it one. Move forward. If she is angry, then re-think how you want to handle it. I so agree with this - it's not an issue which can not be repaired. OP's husband may not agree, and clearly the OP was thinking in the same way initially, but this is just a bit of a lesson in communication and expectations, no matter what the culture given the responses from others. I'd probably contact the friend before lunch on Friday and just say 'so sorry about the misunderstanding, feel bad about it, didn't consider we hadn't talked thoroughly enough' - the friendship is obviously important and so I don't think it's worth losing over $200 and a few conciliatory words.
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Post by jassy on May 8, 2017 19:18:46 GMT
This is how it's done in our circle too.
We just did a trip to Chicago. We also had to get a bigger and more expensive hotel room (a family suite) to accommodate bringing an extra person along, but we did not charge the other family for that. The mom asked how much she should send with her son. I had a basic idea of how much different activities would cost, and I told her that $150 would cover it. We spent more than that on his food and admissions costs, but it was nice to have some money towards the extra expense. We are not high rollers - and neither are our friends - and it is helpful to pay something towards the child's expenses. The teen came with another $50 in his pocket for incidentals.
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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on May 8, 2017 19:26:03 GMT
And, may I just add? The meticulous accounting of the child's expenses rubs me the wrong way. I'm betting you did it out of good intentions to show clearly what the reimbursements were for, but from her perspective it may seem different. It almost reads as if you don't want to be one extra cent out of pocket for taking her child along. I can see where she might have bristled at that. From the kid's point of view: When I was about 13 or 14, a friend asked me to join her family on a vacation. Her parents, well mostly her mother, kept careful track of everything I cost them and made sure I paid my portion. They always pointed out to the waiter that there would be two checks, one for all of them and one for me. I did not feel like a guest, I felt like an unwanted tag-along. I know my friend was happy to have me there, but the rest of the family made me feel unwelcome and it was very uncomfortable. I'm sorry that happened to you. That's not a kind way to treat a kid.
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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on May 8, 2017 19:30:23 GMT
I'm so sorry that you are having to deal with this and I hope you can work it out with your friend. Sounds like you both really enjoy your friendship.
As far as what I would have done is simply this...
If I invited the kid to go on vacation with us I would have fully expected to pay for all costs except spending money. It's not worth losing a friend over a few hundred bucks. When you invite someone to your house for dinner you don't expect them to pay for the cost of the groceries! This.
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Post by brina on May 8, 2017 19:36:37 GMT
I am taking a girl on vacation to NY with my daughter and I next month. Her parents paid her plane ticket. We are staying at a house that my family owns, so no accommodation expense. Her parents tried to pay for play tickets and tours, etc, but I told them no, just send her with spending money. I would not expect to be reimbursed for meals.
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PrettyInPeank
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Jun 25, 2014 21:31:58 GMT
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Post by PrettyInPeank on May 8, 2017 20:12:05 GMT
Instead of beating a dead horse here and being the 47th person to say I wouldn't have expected reimbursement which is probably making you sick with tears and anxiety, I'll say what I would personally do from here on out.
First of all, it's okay! This will not ruin your friendship. Don't cry. You have such an easy-going friendship that is mutual that you thought this would be no different. Just an easy-going exchange. But she is probably taken aback and possibly offended, hence the delay in response. It has nothing to do with how well-off they are, but the undertones of what the exchange says. Keeping a log to the penny seems like you care about money, whereas you were just into keeping a good record so she knew where her money was going. The thing about that is it comes off as business, not friendship.
The good thing is this can all be explained so you can move on. I would tell her that I am sorry for my lack of clear communication (not her lack of understanding). Tell her I value her friendship and her son, and thought that keeping track would be the most reassuring for her, but now realize it could seem cold and business-like which was not my intention. I would also say I didn't realize it's a faux pas to invite and host and then expect reimbursement, and for that I'm sorry. Now this is just me, but if my friendship was this important and valuable, and I could afford it, I would refuse the money. All of it. She will probably insist, and maybe you will go back and forth, but I wouldn't accept more than half at $350.
I hope the wonderful memories of the trip overshadow this snafu, and you all move past this quickly.
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Post by originalvanillabean on May 8, 2017 20:12:27 GMT
The expenses should have been discussed with both parties in agreement, prior to the trip. That's the piece that made this situation bad. You weren't on the same page.
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