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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2017 13:50:26 GMT
For Spring Break at the end of March we took my friend's 6th grader on vacation with us. He is also best friends with my 5th grader son. I've been best friends with her for almost 4 years. We see each other every morning to walk our dogs, we talk about anything and everything. I have taught her to bake, decorate cookies, and sew quilts. In return she often translates things in Japanese for me (we live in Tokyo). They rarely go on vacation although they have a lot of money. They own 2 houses in NC and are contemplating buying a huge home in San Diego. Money is absolutely not an issue.
We spent 9 days at 3 locations in Bali. We had a three bedroom villa with private pool, then a budget hotel, and a nice high end hotel. I sent her links to the accommodation websites before we went. I did not send her the price of the accommodation for her son (which totaled about $200)
We agreed that we would buy everything he needed in Bali, and then we would let her know the total on our return and she would reimburse us.
So, we kept a very detailed list of the food he ate at restaurants and the cost, a couple of souvenirs, and the activities he did (scuba diving and dirt biking). We had a great time, and when we got back I emailed her the itemized list including food, accommodation and activities, so she could see exactly how the money was spent. The total came to $700.
She didn't reply to the email and I didn't hear from her for a couple of days. Her elderly mom is very ill, so I assumed she was busy visiting with her. Since then, I've texted her a number of times and she always replies. She told me she was sorry about the money and she would pay me soon. DH and I thought this was really strange as she usually pays any debts immediately - like if we go to Costco for her.
So, eventually she came over to my house today. We talked for a couple of hours and I gave her a gift I had brought from a weekend in Taipei.
Just as she was about to leave, she asked me if I expected her to pay all the money for the vacation. She assumed we would cover all the accommodation expenses and feels that I'm a terrible friend for including them in the bill. II explained that since her son came with us, we had to rent a 3 bedroom villa and two hotel rooms instead of one triple room. So our expenses increased and the cost for our child was exactly the same as hers. She insisted that when you take another child on vacation, the host covers all acccommodation costs and I should have told her this before the vacation.
Honestly, I was quite blindsided by this as I would absolutely expect to pay all costs for my son had they tables been turned. It never occurred to me that they would expect us to be out of pocket for taking their son on vacation with us. I thought I was being fair by splitting the bill for the rooms he stayed in with my son. I pay half, they pay half.
After a very awkward conversation, where I was made to feel like I was swindling her out of money, I apologized profusely for not discussing it first and explained is was a case of miscommunication and different sets of expectations and assumptions. She then took out an envelope with the whole amount in it, but I refused to accept it until she took out the money for accommodation which is causing the issue. She put it back in her bag and said she'd think about it. We arranged to meet for lunch on Friday and she left on good terms ( I think).
DH thinks she's 100% wrong and she should have sucked it up and paid it rather than avoiding me for a month and then confronting me - potentiality ruining the friendship.
I absolutely admit we should have talked about exactly what they would be expected to pay before we left. Lesson learned and I take full responsibility for that.
So, I know the peas won't hold back. Was I wrong to expect them to contribute the extra accommodation costs we incurred by taking their son, or was it an enormous faux pas on my part? Let me have it (gently). I've been crying since she left.
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imsirius
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Post by imsirius on May 8, 2017 13:56:14 GMT
I took my bffs son on vacation to a cottage and we covered all costs. However, we would have had to pay the amount for the cottage regardless if he came or not.
Hotel, different story. If she had asked you in the first place about costs, it would have been settled. For her to expect you fork out the cost for his room is a bit offensive.
She had agreed to an itemized list without being clear that she expected you to pay accommodation costs. That would have been my first question.
The fact that she had the money with her, tells me that she was willing to pay it. Then made you feel guilty for asking for it! That's not right.
Yes, communication could have been clearer, but if she had expectations, she shouldn't have agreed until she had all details.
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Post by candygurl on May 8, 2017 13:58:30 GMT
If she agreed to the deal beforehand she should've paid the whole amount.
If I took an extra child with me I would've included the 1/2 hotel price, excursion prices and souvenirs in the total but probably not food.
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garcia5050
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Post by garcia5050 on May 8, 2017 13:59:25 GMT
i would expect to pay it all, but I would be very up front about it (and have in the past). Communication went something like this:
I'll pay for hotel, we have a two bedroom suite, I'll pay for all food (meals and snacks) and excursions. If your child is into souvenirs, I suggest you provide some spending money.
If the parent at that time suggests something different, I probably wouldn't take it, and would probably give it to the kid as extra spending money.
But the friend makes the trip easier and more memorable for my child, so it's win-win in my eyes.
I just read that it is the accommodations she is complaining about. Yes, I would definitely expect to pay for accommodations as a host.
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Post by Zee on May 8, 2017 14:01:46 GMT
We have taken the kids' friends on trips. When we offer to take the friends, it's with the understanding that we will cover everything. I would never offer to take a child with and then expect reimbursement. I think if you did, then you should have been crystal-clear on the terms before you left.
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pudgygroundhog
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Post by pudgygroundhog on May 8, 2017 14:03:28 GMT
Sorry you are upset about it. The positive is that you are both willing to discuss it (after she avoided you for a month though - she could've talked to you sooner) and seem committed to finding a resolution that preserves your friendship.
I don't have strong feelings either way on this, but as I was reading this my first instinct was that I would have expected you would have picked up the accommodation. That reaction is based on what I would do in that situation. We haven't taken another kid on vacation with us, but it's something we've discussed (our daughter is an only child and for some trips it would be fun for her to have a friend along) and I assumed we would just pay for the accommodation (and maybe more depending on the financial situation of the friend). I think this stems from my upbringing and what my parents did - they were of the mind if you invited somebody, you paid the costs. But of course these weren't week long trips in Bali - more like weekend trips or day trips. $700 is significantly more than extra costs they would've paid.
I don't think there is a right or wrong in this case - I think you will get answers from the peas that span the spectrum varying on differences in where people live, their friend circles, etc. The crux of the matter is not discussing expectations beforehand - but you already know that. I hope you guys work it out!
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Post by dizzycheermom on May 8, 2017 14:05:23 GMT
Ugh so sorry this happened. We have taken kids many times on different vacations and cheer competition weekends. Normally they are fitting in with the accommodations I would have gotten for just my family. Meaning they don't get their own room, etc. So I have never asked them to chip in.
I can see how there is confusion, and I hope you guys are able to work it out! Hugs!
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Post by gotranch on May 8, 2017 14:06:07 GMT
If it were me, I would not charge for the accommodations. I am not saying you are right or wrong. It's just what I would do. I would expect to be reimbursed for the cost of the activities and some of the food. You knew when he was invited, that you would need to book extra space. I am guessing your friend may not have realized that. It really was a miscommunication of expectations. Sorry you are in this predicament with your friend.
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Post by Katie on May 8, 2017 14:10:46 GMT
I would never consider bringing a child's friend along on vacation and ask the parents to pay. Sorry, I think you are in the wrong here.
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Post by littlemama on May 8, 2017 14:12:13 GMT
I would not have charged for the accommodations.
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PaperAngel
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Post by PaperAngel on May 8, 2017 14:16:19 GMT
(((hugs))) I can understand why you are upset. A neighbor, who agreed to reimburse you for her son's expenses & appears to be financially secure, ignores & accuses you of being a bad friend as she continues to accept gifts from you & risks your & the boys' friendships over $200!
At lunch on Friday, I suggest that you propose splitting the $200/cost of accomodations; it's a fair solution for what was clearly a miscommunication between both parties. You may want to consider reducing future contact with her & expanding your friendship circle.
ETA: IMHO the expenses I or anyone else would pay as the host in a similiar situation is irrelevant. The OP stated, "We agreed that we would buy everything he needed in Bali, and then we would let her know the total on our return and she would reimburse us."
Obviously, he would need a place(s) to stay while on vacation (& the OP sent links showing they were paying for accomodations). Given no exceptions were noted in their agreement, the boy's mother should have communicated her expectation that the OP cover accommodations, & she would reimburse the rest, before the trip, NOT passive aggressively (with the full amount in hand) a month afterward!
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scrappert
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Post by scrappert on May 8, 2017 14:21:02 GMT
I am kind of with the PP pudgygroundhog, I would not have expected to be reimbursed for accommodations or food - if I invited the child along. If the parents asked if you could take the child, I would have expected reimbursement. I would have expected the child to bring spending money to buy souvenirs and such. It is a tough situation when it's past the fact. I hope you two will be able to work it out. |
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imsirius
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Post by imsirius on May 8, 2017 14:22:25 GMT
I would never consider bringing a child's friend along on vacation and ask the parents to pay. Sorry, I think you are in the wrong here. The friend,s mother knew that she would be paying for her kid in the first place. She agreed to it. I wouldn't say the OP is wrong when the other parent knew costs would be incurred. what was wrong was the communication. By both parties. |
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Post by leannec on May 8, 2017 14:23:50 GMT
We took dd#1's friend (age 16) with us on vacation last summer ... we rent a condo so we paid for the accommodation ... Because we were at our lake community I cook pretty much every night for my family there so the friend was included in that ... even when we went to restaurants we paid because she was our guest but that was only about four times ... She had access to her own money for souvenirs and snacks on top of what we paid for (credit card and cash)  Obviously I think that, at a minimum, the host pays for accommodation  |
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2017 14:23:50 GMT
Did you invite her child first? Or did she say something like it'd be nice for her son to go along with you guys. If you invited him, I'd think you would be expected to pay accommodations and food. Souvenirs or extra curricular activities like the scuba diving would be paid by his parents.
Now if she had suggested her son go with you guys and you agreed, then she'd be the one to pay for everything, including the accommodations.
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Post by JustCallMeMommy on May 8, 2017 14:24:41 GMT
My rule of thumb is that if I invite an extra kid, I pay expenses. I factor that into my decision on whether to invite or not. Frankly, when I invite another child, unless it is my niece, DD's enjoyment of the trip is the #1 factor - much more than the experience for the other child.
That said, I wouldn't expect other people to have the same rule, and I think you would have been better off laying out the expectations upfront.
Since you hadn't mentioned the hotel room cost, I can see why they didn't budget that money. Not everyone who appears well-off really is (or they could be over extended), and I kind of wonder by her reaction if her husband doesn't control the purse strings more than you realize. Or they could just have different priorities, especially since they don't take big vacations often. As an example, my friend and I are going on vacation together this summer with our DDs. To my friend, it is a no-brainer that we upgrade seats on the flight. Paying extra per flight to move to a seat with no extra legroom isn't a priority for me. I can afford the upgrade - but it isn't in my carefully crafted trip budget. I'm going to do it to keep the peace, and I'll probably be happy that I did, but I'm not happy to be spending $408 more on seats (and this is coming from someone who often pays for first class seats or the seats with better legroom because there is value in having more space to me).
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Post by Darcy Collins on May 8, 2017 14:25:16 GMT
There was a thread about how this was handled a few weeks ago - I'll try and find it. I posted there that in all the times someone has invited my child somewhere they pay for the accommodations - not that I expected them to - but they have done so. I also did not charge anyone for accommodations when I took their child. I think the huge issue here is communicating expectations. I wouldn't have expected someone to rent a villa with an extra bedroom for my child - I would have expected that they would just share the room with the friend - same with a hotel. I'd say it's not an unreasonable expectation on her part that the child would be sharing with yours and you wouldn't have incurred additional charges. As you changed your arrangements, I understand that you ARE out of pocket, but I definitely think that's something you should have discussed in detail first. Now if I was the friend, I would have just paid the bill, but I'm just providing info on why she might have been surprised by your including accommodations. I hope you can smooth things over with your friend.
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Post by annie on May 8, 2017 14:27:02 GMT
I think you're both guilty of not going in with clear expectations of who pays what.
I also think she is right about the accommodations.
If I invited a kid to go with my family, I would have paid the entire thing. Otherwise the whole "itemized bill" feels petty. It's like when I go out to eat with certain girlfriends and someone wants to figure out who owes what down to the penny. Drives me crazy. Are we friends, or not? My opinion: you invited him, you pay.
Sorry you are upset, and hope that you both can get past this so you keep your friendship intact.
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Post by Darcy Collins on May 8, 2017 14:30:20 GMT
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Sarah*H
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Post by Sarah*H on May 8, 2017 14:30:51 GMT
My son has been invited on vacation and the other family paid for everything, even though we offered to pay. We've taken other kids on vacation and done the same. I guess maybe it's a cultural difference but I would not have expected her to pay anything, much less the price of the accommodation. From your husband's perspective, is the $200 worth the loss of your friendship?
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Post by **GypsyGirl** on May 8, 2017 14:36:41 GMT
With an only child, we many times invited one of her friends along. We always picked up the accommodation and food costs, while the parents would send the child with some souvenir money. When our daughter was invited to travel with other families, we always offered to cover her costs, but the offer was always declined. We would send spending money with her though. Had a mother sent me the link to the accommodation with no mention of cost, my assumption would have been the link was an FYI on where my child would be staying and nothing more. Every family is different and if your family doesn't want to/can't cover the costs for another child, then the expectations for costs should be made crystal clear when the invitation is extended.
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anniebygaslight
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Post by anniebygaslight on May 8, 2017 14:36:48 GMT
We have always covered all accommodation, food bills and entrance fees to parks, museums etc when we have invited other people's children to come away with us. Spending money is another matter.
Maybe it is a cultural thing?
I do agree that absolute clarity from the outset is a must.
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Post by mellowyellow on May 8, 2017 14:41:16 GMT
If I had invited the friend along, I would not expect to get reimbursed.
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hannahruth
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Post by hannahruth on May 8, 2017 14:42:51 GMT
I am assuming that the friend is Japanese, if so then cultural differences need to be considered and her expectations may have been different to what has occurred.
My take on this situation is that I would pay for food and accommodation for the friend but spending money would have to be provided for other items.
Put it down as a life lesson and move on. If you value the friendship then let it go.
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Post by Rainy_Day_Woman on May 8, 2017 14:44:28 GMT
If I had invited a child along with us, it would have been with the expectation that I am covering everything.
I know most parents would send along money for spending, but I wouldn't think most would send money for accomodation.
Unless it was outlined ahead of time, I would think I would be a little put off about getting a bill for his share of the hotel room. I would pay it, but I would think it was odd- different definitions of "hosting" perhaps.
I know a couple who have had parties and then asked everyone for a "cover charge" to pay for them.
We will sometimes collaboratively plan an event and have it at Mike's house, so we all chip in and bring stuff or pay for alcohol etc. But if Mike invited me over for a BBQ and then asks me for $20 for the meat, I feel that is rude. Unless it is outlined ahead of time, I think it is strange to host something you either can't, or are not willing to pay for.
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Post by ~summer~ on May 8, 2017 14:44:56 GMT
I do think the host covers accommodation costs.
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Post by ToniW on May 8, 2017 14:45:29 GMT
Is your friend Japanese? If so, I would say it's a cultural thing. As host, you'd cover room and board. Anything else would be extra. We've been invited to Taiwan and while there, room and board was covered by the host.
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Post by missbennet on May 8, 2017 14:47:24 GMT
This is where I sit, too, I think. It's uncomfortable to me when people start reconciling expenses very carefully and we're friends, unless we've agreed to exactly that prior to the excursion or event. Even then, that is something to do with strangers, not family or friends, in my opinion. (I also don't "sell" things to people I know, so I know I'm a bit different there.)
To me, friends don't charge a BFF to take their child on vacation. However you guys did agree that money would be exchanged, and it sounds like your friend expected you to either not follow or ask for some small symbolic amount.
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Post by cindyupnorth on May 8, 2017 14:48:41 GMT
If you guys invited the child with, YOU should have paid for everything, besides extra gifts the child wanted. Now if the family asked you to take him with, that's another story. I can't imagine inviting someone else on vaca, and then expecting them to pay for it all!
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Post by cindyupnorth on May 8, 2017 14:50:38 GMT
Is your friend Japanese? If so, I would say it's a cultural thing. As host, you'd cover room and board. Anything else would be extra. We've been invited to Taiwan and while there, room and board was covered by the host I don't find it cultural at all!! I think it's just normal etiquette?! It's more like what is the OP? Russian? ha. |
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