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Post by Regina Phalange on Aug 28, 2014 19:36:03 GMT
I haven't read all the replies, but I'm going to stick my opinion in on this:
I don't think its anyone's business what someone does with their money. Bottom line, people who are receiving assistance are doing so because the law states that they are eligible.
It perplexes me that some people take issue with someone getting a pittance of government assistance and having the nerve to want to enjoy a few nice things in life (cell phone, internet, etc.) but yet they have no problem subsidizing huge corporations that use loopholes to get out of paying ANY taxes and yet they rake in billions in profits.
My other issue is with people who rail against the so-called welfare queens and vote against social safety nets, all while taking advantage of those same programs themselves.
(I can already feel the flames touching my butt...lol)
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Post by Darcy Collins on Aug 28, 2014 19:37:39 GMT
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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on Aug 28, 2014 19:47:06 GMT
The question I ask is whether rich people are entitled to those things when their fellow human beings are too poor to afford the basic needs of life. Can I like this twice?!
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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on Aug 28, 2014 19:49:23 GMT
I come at this from a different perspective. A relative, who has psychiatric problems as well as medical problems, cannot work or live alone and has been declared disabled so that he qualifies for Supplemental Security Income, Medicaid, and food stamps. (He had to be declared disabled by Social Security before he could qualify for Medicaid.) He lives with us, and, 5 years ago, his pharmacy costs alone ran to over $700 a month; I'm not sure what they would be now. Without any income, he was unable to afford the life-saving medications, so enrolling in Medicaid was a big blessing. The SSI income (predetermined according to a fixed schedule for a single male) and the food stamps were a bonus. There has been a cost of living increase each year. But, here's the thing: because of his psychiatric problems and personality, he won't spend any money on himself! He has just enough clothes to get by from one laundry day to another (we insist that he wear fresh clothing every day), and he refuses to buy anything new unless the old piece is in tatters (and, even then, it's a battle). He certainly won't buy any luxury items, not even a more comfortable chair, not to mention a magazine or a movie ticket. He does pay for his food (I shop and cook, he reimburses), but he doesn't pay us for living in our home or for utilities or transportation to doctor appointments, so he has very few expenses beyond his medical needs. We can't ask Social Security and the Dept of Social Services to adjust (downward) his monthly benefits; they can't do that. It's not individualized according to exact need and circumstances. If his bank balance is over $2000, they will stop the benefits, so the surplus cash piles up at home. (I know, I know, you wish you had this problem!) My husband and I want to take a trip to visit our adult kids, who live in another state. It would be a week's vacation, and we'd need to stay in a hotel. Since my relative is now "part of the family" (and we encouraged him to think that), we'd like him to come with us; otherwise, arrangements for his care that week would be complicated. We would use the cash that he has accumulated at home for his airfare, hotel, restaurants, etc. From the discussion above, I get it that many people would think he's not entitled to use his money for such a "luxury." But according to the rules and regs, he's allowed to use the money for travel, food, and recreation, among other things. So ... is it wrong to take him with us on the trip? Not wrong at all to use the money to take him on the trip.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Aug 28, 2014 19:49:38 GMT
You took the words out of my mouth. Here's a scenario - - Man leaves abusive (physical and emotional) marriage (mentally ill wife) with his daughter and some clothes. He was in business with his mother and step-dad. They embezzled a boatload of money from the business. He was able to take the business over and has been rebuilding. It's going to be a long process. He had been living with the "parents", but had to move due to the money stealing and subsequent poor situation at the house. As he has a daughter, he applied for, and they receive, food benefits and medical assistance. He works VERY hard and pays for her to do all the things a normal child does. He also does all kinds of side work to make more money. Can he not go on a vacation? Should he and his child suffer and she not be able to be in the band, play softball, have nice things? can he not have a girlfriend and take her places and buy her things? Nothing for himself? The people I know who are on assistance, even when one or both parents work, can't afford band, softball, vacations and other nice things. Not to be mean, but I would wonder if those side jobs are being included in the income that is reported to the county/state when applying for benefits.
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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on Aug 28, 2014 19:52:00 GMT
There are plenty of people from all walks of life who do exactly this. It's not something that is limited to those working in low paying jobs and those on food stamps. Now we all know that it does not apply to any of the peas here because everyone is debt free, not accepting public assistance and live perfect lives! You really have no way of knowing how they paid for that cruise. It could have been a gift, they could have won it in a contest, they could have scrapped together every spare cent for years on end. I think the gossiping neighbor ladies need to get a life and quit worrying about the neighbors. I completely agree the neighbors need to stop gossiping, and "those people" comment is reprehensible. But OP asked a generalized question, with her specifics hidden. I feel like most of us would tailor, or change, their general response once ALL details were known. I'm not saying OP was trying to start an argument, I assume she was genuinely offended by neighbors and came here to vent. Continuing to add details about the man being a "survivor" changes the question, at least in my mind. Bold mine. I included everything I had to say about the original situation in my OP. The spoiler part was part of the original OP. I didn't "continue to add details."
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Post by not2peased on Aug 28, 2014 19:53:13 GMT
What other people do with their money is no ones business. I've got enough to do to take care of my own. Best advice is not to listen to gossip. THIS
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Post by melanell on Aug 28, 2014 19:55:55 GMT
In what universe is taking a cruise basic needs? For freaking real? I never took my kids to Disney because we can't afford it. It' s not a basic need. I don't think she was saying that a cruise was a need at all. I think she was saying that if we are going to judge a "poor" person for taking a cruise, perhaps we should then also judge the "rich", who may take cruise after cruise without stopping to think that their money could go towards providing food & shelter for those in need.
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Post by kelbel827 on Aug 28, 2014 19:57:34 GMT
I'm replying without reading the spoiler and without reading the other posts.
I work 2 full time jobs. I live with my dad and adult son. I have a lot of student loan debt. I can't afford to buy or rent a house. I definitely can't afford vacation.
I see people with no job and no income going on vacations, buying new cars, buying houses. I would love to know how it's done. I know someone who gets food stamps and medical assistance and she goes on vacation every year. I have no idea who pays for it. It's always somewhere warm and tropical. It makes me crazy. I try not to judge but keep wondering where I went wrong. I work really hard and can't go on vacation. So it's not so much her vacationing on my dime, it's why can't I???
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Post by melanell on Aug 28, 2014 20:01:28 GMT
It makes me crazy. I try not to judge but keep wondering where I went wrong. I work really hard and can't go on vacation. So it's not so much her vacationing on my dime, it's why can't I??? I think at times when jealousy rears its head it is good to remember the entire picture. Not just the specific vacations. If someone is gifting her a vacation, they do it because they feel for her in her situation. People may not think to gift you a vacation because overall your situation is better. So basically, in order to have that same gifted vacation, you would need to take on the entire package....the vacation, but also the life that she lives the rest of the year. I would guess in that in most cases most of us would not wish to take on the life that comes with the vacation.
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Post by Regina Phalange on Aug 28, 2014 20:02:27 GMT
I'm replying without reading the spoiler and without reading the other posts. I work 2 full time jobs. I live with my dad and adult son. I have a lot of student loan debt. I can't afford to buy or rent a house. I definitely can't afford vacation. I see people with no job and no income going on vacations, buying new cars, buying houses. I would love to know how it's done. I know someone who gets food stamps and medical assistance and she goes on vacation every year. I have no idea who pays for it. It's always somewhere warm and tropical. It makes me crazy. I try not to judge but keep wondering where I went wrong. I work really hard and can't go on vacation. So it's not so much her vacationing on my dime, it's why can't I??? Sure, I'm sure everyone knows someone or has heard of someone like this. My point is, you have companies like GE who make 2-3 billion dollars in profits in a year, and yet, not only do they NOT pay any taxes, they get a 3 million dollar tax refund! Why is there no outrage about that? ETA - not asking you personally kelbel...lol.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Aug 28, 2014 20:02:32 GMT
The question I ask is whether rich people are entitled to those things when their fellow human beings are too poor to afford the basic needs of life. I think this is an important point to ponder as well. I am glad I'm not rich because the guilt would eat me alive.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 11, 2024 4:27:47 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 20:05:06 GMT
The question I ask is whether rich people are entitled to those things when their fellow human beings are too poor to afford the basic needs of life. I think this is an important point to ponder as well. I am glad I'm not rich because the guilt would eat me alive. On the flip side, tourism pays the bills for many living in those third-world tropical islands and countries. Tourism--presumably by the generally wealthy--employs the local populations. They survive on tourism.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Aug 28, 2014 20:05:37 GMT
I'm replying without reading the spoiler and without reading the other posts. I work 2 full time jobs. I live with my dad and adult son. I have a lot of student loan debt. I can't afford to buy or rent a house. I definitely can't afford vacation. I see people with no job and no income going on vacations, buying new cars, buying houses. I would love to know how it's done. I know someone who gets food stamps and medical assistance and she goes on vacation every year. I have no idea who pays for it. It's always somewhere warm and tropical. It makes me crazy. I try not to judge but keep wondering where I went wrong. I work really hard and can't go on vacation. So it's not so much her vacationing on my dime, it's why can't I??? Sure, I'm sure everyone knows someone or has heard of someone like this. My point is, you have companies like GE who make 2-3 billion dollars in profits in a year, and yet, not only do they NOT pay any taxes, they get a 3 million dollar tax refund! Why is there no outrage about that? ETA - not asking you personally kelbel...lol. I think you forgot what you posted above... let me help you out: Bottom line companies take advantage of tax credits, loopholes etc. because the law states that they are eligible.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Aug 28, 2014 20:19:17 GMT
I'm replying without reading the spoiler and without reading the other posts. I work 2 full time jobs. I live with my dad and adult son. I have a lot of student loan debt. I can't afford to buy or rent a house. I definitely can't afford vacation. I see people with no job and no income going on vacations, buying new cars, buying houses. I would love to know how it's done. I know someone who gets food stamps and medical assistance and she goes on vacation every year. I have no idea who pays for it. It's always somewhere warm and tropical. It makes me crazy. I try not to judge but keep wondering where I went wrong. I work really hard and can't go on vacation. So it's not so much her vacationing on my dime, it's why can't I??? Sure, I'm sure everyone knows someone or has heard of someone like this. My point is, you have companies like GE who make 2-3 billion dollars in profits in a year, and yet, not only do they NOT pay any taxes, they get a 3 million dollar tax refund! Why is there no outrage about that? ETA - not asking you personally kelbel...lol. Because it's not true. I was digging thru their 10K trying to figure out where in the world you got that info. I should have just started with factcheck link
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Post by anonrefugee on Aug 28, 2014 20:39:31 GMT
I completely agree the neighbors need to stop gossiping, and "those people" comment is reprehensible. But OP asked a generalized question, with her specifics hidden. I feel like most of us would tailor, or change, their general response once ALL details were known. I'm not saying OP was trying to start an argument, I assume she was genuinely offended by neighbors and came here to vent. Continuing to add details about the man being a "survivor" changes the question, at least in my mind. Bold mine. I included everything I had to say about the original situation in my OP. The spoiler part was part of the original OP. I didn't "continue to add details." Oh I'm sorry, I should have read more carefully. I thought you added part about "man rebuilding business" etc. That's what I get for reading between phone calls!
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Post by cbet on Aug 28, 2014 20:44:37 GMT
I haven't read all the replies, but I'm going to stick my opinion in on this:
I don't think its anyone's business what someone does with their money. Bottom line, people who are receiving assistance are doing so because the law states that they are eligible.
It perplexes me that some people take issue with someone getting a pittance of government assistance and having the nerve to want to enjoy a few nice things in life (cell phone, internet, etc.) but yet they have no problem subsidizing huge corporations that use loopholes to get out of paying ANY taxes and yet they rake in billions in profits.
My other issue is with people who rail against the so-called welfare queens and vote against social safety nets, all while taking advantage of those same programs themselves.
(I can already feel the flames touching my butt...lol)
Agree with so much of this . . . if you feel that taking a cruise while receiving food stamps is wrong, then logic says you should feel the same about any "fun" expenditures by anyone who is receiving any government $$. So the interest on your mortgage that you can deduct on your taxes? That's government money. You retire and you're on medicare? Government money. Federal student loan? Government money. Sure, it needs to be paid back, but the interest rate is lower than you could get at a bank. Therefore, logic follows that it should not be ok to spend fun money until that loan has been fully repaid. For the record, I don't feel this way. If your income is such that you qualify for assistance, and you aren't lying or hiding assets to qualify, and you are somehow able to save enough to take a trip, more power to you. Most of the people I've known who qualified for some sort of assistance weren't making enough to save much of anything, though - so I suspect that the cruise in question was either a gift or some sort of prize.
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Post by annabella on Aug 28, 2014 20:46:59 GMT
Everyone deserves a vacation, regardless of your income level. The dishwasher is working hard for his money, he did not get it free. Why shouldn't get some relaxation from his job and quality family time? Cruises aren't that expensive.
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Post by Regina Phalange on Aug 28, 2014 21:21:40 GMT
Sure, I'm sure everyone knows someone or has heard of someone like this. My point is, you have companies like GE who make 2-3 billion dollars in profits in a year, and yet, not only do they NOT pay any taxes, they get a 3 million dollar tax refund! Why is there no outrage about that? ETA - not asking you personally kelbel...lol. I think you forgot what you posted above... let me help you out: Bottom line companies take advantage of tax credits, loopholes etc. because the law states that they are eligible. And I think you are misunderstanding my point. People are quick to judge when someone who is eligible for assistance does anything they deem wrong because they receive that assistance (because their tax dollars go to that assistance) but they don't cry foul when big corporations are basically doing the same thing.
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Post by BuckeyeSandy on Aug 28, 2014 21:30:57 GMT
If they are on any kind of government assistance I don't think they should be going on cruises or expensive vacations. That's my "dime" they are traveling on. I do see the need for relaxation time for everyone but it should be a day at the local swimming pool or free concerts, etc. Now, if they are "poor" or in a lot of debt but NOT on any government assistance, that is their business IMHO. Bold mine. So, if they are on medical assistance, too? Also, does anyone know how many people qualify for food stamps? Many. Many more than you would think. So, all the military families on food stamps should NEVER spend they money on frivolous things because it's you "dime" right? Maybe it "isn't on their dime" our DD and her family are on assistance, AND getting support from parents as well. If one set of parents were to go on vacation, and take them too... it does not come out on "some one else's "dime." It comes from the the folks "hosting" the trip. Maybe in this situation, they have relatives that are doing okay or better and want to treat them. Is it really anyone else's business??? DD's in-laws own property, own a small boat and a camper. When they go places or do things they often take their son and his family with them. Is that a problem with anyone here?
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Post by M~ on Aug 28, 2014 21:41:45 GMT
How does anyone know that the person who is on welfare did not work to save for that cruise? Not everyone on welfare is a "moocher." True story: my first job as a lawyer paid so little that I qualified for food stamps AND welfare. Isn't that insane?
My family received welfare and Medicaid when we first came to this country and we worked our way out of poverty. It sucks to be poor. It sucks even more when you are poor (for whatever reason) and judgmental people look down on you and treat you like you are some subhuman species BECAUSE you are poor.
Having been on both sides of the coin, I make it a practice to NOT judge people for what they do and how they spend their money. I contribute to society with my taxes, but paying taxes does not give me the right to be a judgmental bitch. Why? Well, because BUT FOR THE GRACE OF GOD GO I. I've been there, on welfare. With only one pair of shoes for an entire 6 months and having to put kleenex or cardboard so that the screws on the heels stop digging into my foot. I've been hungry and desperately wanted some "nice things," which back in my childhood, primarily consisted of Hello Kitty stuff. I remember that exactly ONE person was kind to me, when other people treated me like I meant nothing. It doesn't feel good and I'll never make a person feel like they're nothing.
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Post by Spongemom Scrappants on Aug 28, 2014 21:41:52 GMT
Discussions like this get really circular after a while because there are as many examples of people who are considered to be "taking advantage" as there are stories about people whom everyone agrees "deserve or have earned" the right. I could argue either side of this issue given the right scenario as an example.
But at the end of the day, society has to have rules for how to deal with programs like food stamps and other government assistance. And there are always going to be people who fall at every point of the spectrum in between.
I can be pretty conservative about general policies... but I can also become a liberal pretty quick when faced with the story of someone who seemingly does all the right things and yet still needs assistance and can barely make ends meet in a fairly deprived life.
I have no idea what the ultimate answer is at the end of the day.
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on Aug 28, 2014 21:44:36 GMT
Cruises aren't that expensive.
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Post by gmcwife1 on Aug 28, 2014 21:45:03 GMT
I'm sorry for what he's going through, but in my opinion no, he should not go on a vacation he cannot afford. There have been plenty of years my husband & I have had to choose between a home repair and a vacation and guess what? We didn't go on vacation. Can he have a girlfriend? Sure. Take her places and buy her things? Again, in my opinion, no. If you can't afford it, then you can't have it or do it. He can afford it, because he's able to save money, because he qualifies for assistance. He pays for his apartment without assistance, (which he would qualify for) and does his best to provide for his daughter. And really, do you think a good woman is going to date a guy with a daughter and no money? Not that we're all money grubbing bitches, but c'mon. Do you think he'd even WANT to date if he couldn't afford to buy her a meal or a card for her birthday?
He doesn't have a home to repair, because the exwife let it go into foreclosure. I'm sure he'd LOVE to be able to make that decision...home repair versus vacation.
I'm guessing the peas who have such a hardline have never been in a situation that warranted help.
You'd be guessing wrong. I actually have been on assistance while I was a single parent, living in public housing and not getting any child support. Taking a vacation was never even a thought in my mind. Trying to entertain myself and my child for free were the only choices I had. We went to the library, the park, Barnes and Noble to sit in the chairs and read books. We went to the fancy pet store that had a lot of animals. Years later she told her brother she thought the pet store was the zoo. There is no way I could afford to 'save' a few hundred dollars for a vacation. I shopped at thrift stores and occassionally splurged on red tag clearence new items. No, you do not 'save' money for vacations while others are helping support you.
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Deleted
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Oct 11, 2024 4:27:47 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 21:47:36 GMT
Cruises aren't that expensive. As someone that lives thirty minutes from a major cruise port I can say that they truly aren't pricey. Or don't have to be. I can take last minute 3-5 day cruises in an inside cabin for $250-400 per person. I don't drink so really wouldn't have to have any extra expenses. I've done it several times in fact.
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Post by M~ on Aug 28, 2014 21:49:08 GMT
How does anyone know that the person who is on welfare did not work to save for that cruise? Not everyone on welfare is a "moocher." True story: my first job as a lawyer paid so little that I qualified for food stamps AND welfare. Isn't that insane?
My family received welfare and Medicaid when we first came to this country and we worked our way out of poverty. It sucks to be poor. It sucks even more when you are poor (for whatever reason) and judgmental people look down on you and treat you like you are some subhuman species BECAUSE you are poor.
Having been on both sides of the coin, I make it a practice to NOT judge people for what they do and how they spend their money. I contribute to society with my taxes, but paying taxes does not give me the right to be a judgmental bitch. Why? Well, because BUT FOR THE GRACE OF GOD GO I. I've been there, on welfare. With only one pair of shoes for an entire 6 months and having to put kleenex or cardboard so that the screws on the heels stop digging into my foot. I've been hungry and desperately wanted some "nice things," which back in my childhood, primarily consisted of Hello Kitty stuff. I remember that exactly ONE person was kind to me, when other people treated me like I meant nothing. It doesn't feel good and I'll never make a person feel like they're nothing.
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on Aug 28, 2014 21:51:15 GMT
As someone that lives thirty minutes from a major cruise port That must be very nice for you...however, for the rest of us that will need to fly into a port, possibly stay the night before or after, I can assure you, it is VERY pricey indeed. Money that will instead be going to my daughter's sports. C'est La Vie.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 11, 2024 4:27:47 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 21:52:25 GMT
As someone that lives thirty minutes from a major cruise port That must be very nice for you...however, for the rest of us that will need to fly into a port, possibly stay the night before or after, I can assure you, it is VERY pricey indeed. Money that will instead be going to my daughter's sports. C'est La Vie. I'm just saying that there are quite a few cruise ports and lots live within driving distance of them. So flights aren't always part of the equation.
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Post by rebelyelle on Aug 28, 2014 22:51:41 GMT
It's sort of mind boggling to me that there are many posters who are saying they have no problem with someone on assistance treating themselves every so often to an occasional splurge, but somehow it's NOT okay to skip all of those splurges, save that $5-$10 over time, and use those saved monies on what is most likely a once-in-a-lifetime experience. I really don't see the difference there.
There were also a few comments that those funds should be used to better their circumstances and get off assistance. Can some of these posters share how this could be achieve with, let's just say, a modest budget of $1,200. In the grand scheme of one's life, what is $1,200 going to do to pull them out of poverty? It's a drop in the bucket for things like further education. I'm not trying to be snarky, but I'm not connecting the dots here. If it (I'm assuming here) took them several years to amass that small fund, how does that $25/month make a life-changing difference for someone on public assistance?
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Post by stampbooker on Aug 28, 2014 22:57:43 GMT
It's sort of mind boggling to me that there are many posters who are saying they have no problem with someone on assistance treating themselves every so often to an occasional splurge, but somehow it's NOT okay to skip all of those splurges, save that $5-$10 over time, and use those saved monies on what is most likely a once-in-a-lifetime experience. I really don't see the difference there. There were also a few comments that those funds should be used to better their circumstances and get off assistance. Can some of these posters share how this could be achieve with, let's just say, a modest budget of $1,200. In the grand scheme of one's life, what is $1,200 going to do to pull them out of poverty? It's a drop in the bucket for things like further education. I'm not trying to be snarky, but I'm not connecting the dots here. If it (I'm assuming here) took them several years to amass that small fund, how does that $25/month make a life-changing difference for someone on public assistance? I was just about to post the same thing, so thanks for saving me the typing! Julie
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