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Post by threegirls on Aug 29, 2014 13:02:06 GMT
My husband started his successful business with about $1,000.00, a used beat-up car and three suits.
ETA: I did something wrong with the quote. It should be attributed to lucyg - sorry about that, it was operator error.
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Post by melanell on Aug 29, 2014 13:06:57 GMT
melanell...can I please be Lana Walker? I have never been on public assistance, but neither have I lived a lifestyle where I felt I could spend $10 every week on a fancy coffee and a baked good, have a basic manicure every month for $20 and a haircut every other month costing $25! All that and food stamps too, sounds like she's got a great thing going! I think I want some of that! You know, I don't buy fancy coffees or go for manicures & regular haircuts, either, but I still definitely do not want to be Lana Walker.
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Aug 29, 2014 13:11:20 GMT
What if they have outstanding debts, like credit card bills that they are only making the minimum payment on, or even missing payments? There are plenty of people from all walks of life who do exactly this. It's not something that is limited to those working in low paying jobs and those on food stamps. Now we all know that it does not apply to any of the peas here because everyone is debt free, not accepting public assistance and live perfect lives! You really have no way of knowing how they paid for that cruise. It could have been a gift, they could have won it in a contest, they could have scrapped together every spare cent for years on end. I think the gossiping neighbor ladies need to get a life and quit worrying about the neighbors. Gypsy Girl Nailed it!
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Post by melanell on Aug 29, 2014 13:17:26 GMT
My sister lives in our basement with her 4 kids. She receives food stamps and several other forms of assistance. There have been times over the years that I have been frustrated by how she spends her money when she purchases things that I feel are luxury items, rather than needs. But, now I ask myself, "Would I want to trade lives with her?". And the answer is always no, and so my annoyance is quickly forgotten. I have had the exact same conversation with DS. He knows a child who lives in the projects, but who has a cell phone, a DS, etc. that my son doesn't have. And when he started to moan about that I told him that he could trade lives with this child if he really thought it would be so great, and he quickly insisted that he was fine without those things.
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Post by greenlegume on Aug 29, 2014 13:17:53 GMT
melanell...can I please be Lana Walker? I have never been on public assistance, but neither have I lived a lifestyle where I felt I could spend $10 every week on a fancy coffee and a baked good, have a basic manicure every month for $20 and a haircut every other month costing $25! All that and food stamps too, sounds like she's got a great thing going! I think I want some of that! Here's hoping you'll get your wish!
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Deleted
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Oct 11, 2024 4:23:31 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2014 13:35:49 GMT
You are going to love this: I worked with a very nice lady who was deeply in debt,lived in a mechanic' s shop with no shower or bathtub,retired at 62,cashed in her retirement and went to Hawaii. I don't know what kind of public assistance she had, maybe none, but she gets free groceries from the food bank and churches. She actually owns a home from a divorce, but cannot turn on the utilities. She loves to buy gifts rather than pay her bills. While I was working with her, she almost died because no Dr. would see her and had to wait until she was so sick, the er had to admit her for emergency surgery. She has been in debt so long that it is normal for her and she gave up on trying to do anything about it a long time ago.
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Post by PEArfect on Aug 29, 2014 13:37:45 GMT
What is 'poor?' Going through the school paperwork yesterday I noticed that the free lunch program is now "if you make $75,000 or less/annual family income, you could qualify for assistance." $75,000 or less/year, really? I'm not positive, but I thought in years past it was an annual family income of $35,000 or less.
Here's what I realized over the years. Everyone has different priorities. Not my bills, not my problem.
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Post by sisterbdsq on Aug 29, 2014 13:38:51 GMT
You are going to love this: I worked with a very nice lady who was deeply in debt,lived in a mechanic' s shop with no shower or bathtub,retired at 62,cashed in her retirement and went to Hawaii. I don't know what kind of public assistance she had, maybe none, but she gets free groceries from the food bank and churches. She actually owns a home from a divorce, but cannot turn on the utilities. She loves to buy gifts rather than pay her bills. While I was working with her, she almost died because no Dr. would see her and had to wait until she was so sick, the er had to admit her for emergency surgery. She has been in debt so long that it is normal for her and she gave up on trying to do anything about it a long time ago. Why would we love to hear of someone who has an apparent mental illness? I don't think that's the same thing we are talking about.
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Post by JustKim on Aug 29, 2014 13:43:13 GMT
Count me as another who thinks people need to MYOB and stop judging when they really don't have all the details of a persons personal and financial life. Yes, count me in too!! You will never know the actual financial picture of the couple. Was it a gift from someone. Did they receive an inheritance from a relative? Did they win the vacation? Did they get a last minute deal for cheap ($200)? Why are they on assistance? Do they have a lot of medical bills? Have they saved for 20 years to do this? Is someone ill and this is their last wish? We cannot judge someone because we are not in their shoes!!
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Post by not2peased on Aug 29, 2014 13:53:10 GMT
I agree to a certain extent - but then change that to one of the adults having medical problems (or whatever) and receiving assistant of sorts. Those children also grow up and become adults - does the assistance stop because they are no longer children? Probably not. I guess what I am trying to say is that the perception of what is considered government assistance seems to be determined by what your assistance is called and what your income level is. And those in the lower income levels sometimes seemed to be held to different standards than others. For someone working a low paying job and receiving some assistance, that may be all that they are able to achieve in life. Everyone does not have the opportunity or ability to better themselves in life. You always hear the stories where people say "my relative had nothing, and with nothing but hard work they are now living the high life". Well for every one of those stories I bet there are many that worked just as hard, scrimped just as much, and tried just as hard - but it did not make a difference. I would not have any ill will for someone who was working a low paying job and receiving some assistance who saved and went on a trip of a lifetime. And I certainly would not be saying that since they are receiving assistance they are taking that trip on "my dime". My dime pays for a lot of things for a lot of people, and I guarantee that it is not only the low income people who I am helping. I want to emphasize that I have no problem with my tax dollars funding programs (I would probably be considered one of those liberals ) for those who need it whether they earn 1000.00 a year or 100,000.00 a year - we all need help sometimes. I do however have a problem with those who think that only those on foodstamps or welfare are the only people receiving assistance and especially when they hold them to a higher expectation than others.
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SweetieBsMom
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,750
Jun 25, 2014 19:55:12 GMT
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Post by SweetieBsMom on Aug 29, 2014 13:55:49 GMT
I am bugged by the " people like them" comment that is just really insulting. The man is working hard and trying to earn a living and should be respected for that. But that aside no I don't think someone on public assistance should go on a cruise. If it was a prize or a gift ok but if they have enough left over to save hundreds it should go for something else they need something that will help get them off of assistance. Shouldn't that be the goal to get off of assistance ASAP. I know very judgrmental but well it doesn't make sense for someone to basically use food stamps to supplement their income so they can do fun things. I have know people that were on assistance and bettered themselves and it was temporary and used the way it was supposed to And then seen those that abuse have system and made monthly or more trips to Disneyland they had annual passes but it was still over 100 a month even if they took all their own food just for gas and parking plus extras as I know they went to trade pins and bought the special one every month plus the cost of passes. This was many years ago so passes were maybe half what they are today but seriously. If they had over 100 each month for this plus passes they shouldn't be getting food stamps. I understand wanting a few extras but when you see people on assistance going to Disney monthly and out to lunch and Starbucks multiple times a week there is something wrong with the system. I would rather see those that truly need help get more per month vs seeing abusers get anything. Work more jobs and pay off debt and try and better yourself. There are places you can take classes to help get a better job. No one is meant to work minimum wage forever. Is it easy no but that is just the way it is. Most young people have to work more than one job. I know I did, was it fun, no but it was the only way I knew to pay the bills and better myself. If you use assistance fine but do everything you can to improve your life while on it so that you can get off of it. Everyone should want to do better than living on assistance or living on minimum wage but it is hard and I respect those that work hard to better themselves. I don't look down on people that do these jobs don't get me wrong. If I see someone working hard I always think they are trying and that us what counts. The people I know that worked their butts off while on assistance are some if the best people I know. They now have good jobs and have degrees. They aren't rich but they have jobs and are happy. It took them longer to graduate but they did it and appreciate the degree a lot more than those whose mommy or daddy paid their way. Those are the ones that never appreciate anything they have and constantly think someone should give them something. If someone goes to Starbucks once s month that is one thing but going on a cruise even if it took a year to save up is wrong. I agree with this. Personally, I think there should be a time limit for assistance. I'm not sure what it should be but you shouldn't be allowed to be on it indefinitely. The system is broken.
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SweetieBsMom
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,750
Jun 25, 2014 19:55:12 GMT
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Post by SweetieBsMom on Aug 29, 2014 14:02:38 GMT
What is 'poor?' Going through the school paperwork yesterday I noticed that the free lunch program is now "if you make $75,000 or less/annual family income, you could qualify for assistance." $75,000 or less/year, really? I'm not positive, but I thought in years past it was an annual family income of $35,000 or less. Here's what I realized over the years. Everyone has different priorities. Not my bills, not my problem. Isn't the middle class now considered those who make $150k/year? Didn't I hear that during the last election? I work 2 jobs and I'm no where near middle class.
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Post by anxiousmom on Aug 29, 2014 14:32:56 GMT
What is 'poor?' Going through the school paperwork yesterday I noticed that the free lunch program is now "if you make $75,000 or less/annual family income, you could qualify for assistance." $75,000 or less/year, really? I'm not positive, but I thought in years past it was an annual family income of $35,000 or less. Here's what I realized over the years. Everyone has different priorities. Not my bills, not my problem. The guidelines for the free and reduced lunch program are laid out based on the the federal standard of poverty and how you fall within the percentages of how far below the poverty level. The $75K figure is not going to include the typical family of 4 but rather a very large family with a substantial number of children probably closer to the Duggars than anything else. For a family of four, annual income is closer to $24K/year. A source that can show better than I can explain: Federal Guidelines for Free/Reduced Lunch Program This information pertains to lunch programs, but it is the same poverty standard used by all assistance programs to determine eligibility.
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Post by I-95 on Aug 29, 2014 14:37:21 GMT
The question I ask is whether rich people are entitled to those things when their fellow human beings are too poor to afford the basic needs of life. I think this is an important point to ponder as well. I am glad I'm not rich because the guilt would eat me alive. That's taking social responsibility a little too far. If I'm part of the 1% it's more likely that I got there by working my ass off, building a company, working 7 days a week, 14 hours a day, not taking any vacations for years, missing milestones of the kids etc etc. By the time I am what society would consider 'rich' then believe me, I've earned it. I'm in complete favor of social safety nets but this country has a long and rich history of anybody being able to live the 'American Dream'. Rich people pay taxes too, often more in a year than someone on minimum wages makes in the same year. I don't think it matters how a person pays for their cruise, if they feel that's the best use of their money, more power to them. The rich deserve it because they earned it, the poor deserve it because if they can save enough for a cruise while being on public assistance, then they're doing without a lot of basics to save the money.
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Post by not2peased on Aug 29, 2014 14:50:58 GMT
My sister lives in our basement with her 4 kids. She receives food stamps and several other forms of assistance. There have been times over the years that I have been frustrated by how she spends her money when she purchases things that I feel are luxury items, rather than needs. But, now I ask myself, "Would I want to trade lives with her?". And the answer is always no, and so my annoyance is quickly forgotten. I have had the exact same conversation with DS. He knows a child who lives in the projects, but who has a cell phone, a DS, etc. that my son doesn't have. And when he started to moan about that I told him that he could trade lives with this child if he really thought it would be so great, and he quickly insisted that he was fine without those things. we spent 3 years in the projects and I am sure some thought we were scamming the system. we had a decent car (bought before my parent's divorce) and my dad used to pick us up in his porsche for visitation. we also had nicer furniture than what our neighbors typically had (again, purchased before the divorce) what they didn't know was that my dad was self employed and hid his income. he paid a pittance in child support-and my mom worked two jobs to support us. she saved every penny and 3 years later, we moved out of the project and into our own house-the financing through the FHA program. I wonder if some here count that as a handout as well? I also wonder how many here accepted that kind of handout? (FHA loan)lol I spent every other weekend swimming in his pool, hanging out in his hottub and waterskiing. we went home and barely had enough to eat. that's why I don't judge anyone's situation-things are not always what they seem-no matter what you think you see and know.
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Post by anonrefugee on Aug 29, 2014 16:10:23 GMT
rebelyelle, I don't disagree with you at all. My point was only that several people scoffed at the idea that $1000 could ever be enough to be useful in escaping poverty. I think it can be very useful to someone who wants to make changes and handles the money with mindfulness and care. For someone who isn't interested in making life changes, it wouldn't be necessary. I agree, when I was first out of college (1980s) I qualified for assistance. But I never in a million years would have thought to take it, and possibly prevent someone else from getting aid. Maybe it's the hopefulness of being young, single and childless but struggled and made life work. I got an unexpected bonus of less than $1000, don't remember exact windfall. But it felt like the lottery, it covered my $650/ month rent for efficiency appt and bought a new work appropriate suit, and probably a few dinners out and movie. I was sooo relieved. (My rent couldn't be any lower and stay safe, I was already in fringe neighborhood.) I recognize being in this situation is not the same as others, with deadend jobs, families and medical bills. But even now I remind myself how little it can take to change perspective.
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Post by LovMelrose on Aug 29, 2014 16:37:52 GMT
I think people can do what they want with their means and of course they deserve frivolous wants just as much as the next person.
Whoever worries about what a person on government assistance does with their money needs to mind their own business.
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scrapnnana
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,355
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Jun 29, 2014 18:58:47 GMT
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Post by scrapnnana on Aug 29, 2014 17:05:49 GMT
I think most of us object to the "people like that" comment in the spoiler. It is possible that it was a free trip, won by sitting through one of those time share sales where they browbeat you to buy a time share. But just for argument's sake, let's assume that they didn't get a free trip.
DH and I lived for a few years officially under the poverty threshold, and it's a little frustrating to think about a person getting food stamps but is somehow able to save up for a cruise, IF that is what the real story happened to be. Let's consider some math: $300/month for food multiplied by 12 months adds up to $3600. That is more than enough to pay for a cruise for two, and a pretty nice one at that, with quite a bit of money left over for small luxuries, too. If getting that much in government assistance is what allowed them to save up the money for a cruise, then yes, I think that is taking advantage and is not appropriate.
When DH and I lived in poverty, we would do free things for entertainment. A cruise was certainly never an option, nor was any other vacation. There is absolutely no way we could have saved up enough money for that when we could barely pay for necessities of life. We walked or rode the bus because we couldn't afford a car. It never occurred to us to apply for food stamps or government assistance. We managed to get by with a little help from parents. In order for DH to finish school, he worked part-time. Had he not been trying to pay for college, would we have been able to save up enough for a cruise? Maybe, but then we would have been stuck in poverty a lot longer.
Our DD and her DH are dirt poor. They get no benefits. They have never applied for any. They work hard to have enough to meet their needs, and a few very modest wants (we'll call them luxuries) because DD is very good at managing money. They have built up some savings for emergencies, but they would never dream of blowing it on a cruise. Her DH is taking one to two classes per semester to eventually get a degree that will lift them out of poverty. He has been doing this for years, and he still has one to two years till he will graduate, but at least he is doing everything he can to lift himself to a better situation. DD has her Bachelor's degree, but she couldn't get a job in her field (which was music related). She took what jobs she could get after graduating. Her first job after graduation was working for a deli. Now she works for Little Gym. Not exactly big bucks jobs. DSIL works at the college print shop. DD can pinch pennies till they scream for mercy, so they are managing. DH and I did the same thing when we were in the same situation. DD and her DH are probably in a somewhat similar financial situation right now as the dishwasher, except DD and DSIL don't get government benefits, and they are paying for DSIL's part-time college classes.
I agree that we have no right to tell someone how to spend their hard earned money, but if the dishwasher and his wife are able to save up for a cruise because they get $3600/year in free food and can save that money that would have otherwise been spent on food, that $3600 isn't really "their" money but was provided by taxpayers. Who honestly thinks that taxpayers should be paying for cruises? I don't. No one is "entitled" to a cruise, just because that is their dream, if other people are essentially being forced to pay for it. The same is true even of small luxuries. If it's your own hard earned money, you get to decide how to spend it. If it's taxpayer money, then you can expect some justifiable criticism and frustration from the taxpayers who can't afford a cruise or even small luxuries because they are surviving without help from Uncle Sam.
There are no easy answers. We cannot judge until we have sufficient information, and the situation the OP gave had too little info. We have no way to know how the trip was being paid for. But to say that they are "entitled" to such a cruise in spite of their poverty (or because of it), no, I do not feel they are entitled to it if they were able to pay for it as a result of getting government benefits.
I feel that military families are a completely different situation. They lay their lives on the line for this country, and their families make tremendous sacrifices. They have had benefits reduced that they were promised, and I think they are entitled to more from our government than what they are getting. If the dishwasher is a veteran who has had his benefits reduced, then that would completely change my viewpoint. Those who serve our country deserve a lot more than those who only serve themselves.
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Deleted
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Oct 11, 2024 4:23:31 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2014 19:05:51 GMT
sisterbdsq to: not sure how you came to the conclusion that my friend is mentally ill. I worked with her for 12 years and that diagnosis never occurred to me. She has some issues and many hurts in her life but she is not mentally ill.
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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on Aug 29, 2014 19:42:32 GMT
What is 'poor?' Going through the school paperwork yesterday I noticed that the free lunch program is now "if you make $75,000 or less/annual family income, you could qualify for assistance." $75,000 or less/year, really? I'm not positive, but I thought in years past it was an annual family income of $35,000 or less. Here's what I realized over the years. Everyone has different priorities. Not my bills, not my problem. Isn't the middle class now considered those who make $150k/year? Didn't I hear that during the last election? I work 2 jobs and I'm no where near middle class. $150K/year is middle class now? I'm absolutely destitute, eating rocks poor then.
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Post by sisterbdsq on Aug 29, 2014 20:13:59 GMT
sisterbdsq to: not sure how you came to the conclusion that my friend is mentally ill. I worked with her for 12 years and that diagnosis never occurred to me. She has some issues and many hurts in her life but she is not mentally ill. Because she chose to live with no running water or access to a way to adequately clean herself. Because she chose to give gifts rather than supply herself with basic needs. Those were choices she made, which seem counter intuitive for a person not struggling with a problem.
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Deleted
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Oct 11, 2024 4:23:31 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2014 20:31:25 GMT
"Problem" is not the definition of of mental illness. She had running water.
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Post by melanell on Aug 29, 2014 21:23:17 GMT
What is 'poor?' Going through the school paperwork yesterday I noticed that the free lunch program is now "if you make $75,000 or less/annual family income, you could qualify for assistance." $75,000 or less/year, really? I'm not positive, but I thought in years past it was an annual family income of $35,000 or less. We just received our forms for school in the mail today and the free/reduced lunch form was one of them. Ours says that the cut-off income for a family of four is just over $44K per year. $74K is the cut-off for a family of 8. Then they allow an additional $7500 (annual) per person after 8 people. So you'd have to have 9 people in your family in order for $75,000 to be an allowable amount of yearly income and still receive reduced lunch. And that chart is for both reduced and free. So I imagine if you make the cut-off you are eligible for reduced, and if you fall a certain % under the cut-off you would be eligible for free. (I have never used the free & reduced lunch program as a child or as a parent of a student, though, so the last part is a guess on my part.)
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