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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Mar 14, 2018 17:24:56 GMT
As do those who find offense at what trump and the rest of the GOP do!
I watched HRC answer the question of the interviewer/host. While her response was not representative of all women, unfortunately there are those who are influenced or brainwashed. It’s a sad sight to see. And they're plenty vocal about it. I'm missing your point I guess. What's the big deal about people bringing up HRC? I personally find Holder, Biden, and several others that I'll keep to myself irrelevant. People continue to bring them up, which I find annoying, but so what? Any time someone brings up HRC they get mocked or criticized. I know you didn't specifically mention HRC in this post, but I see it a lot on the political threads. I wasn’t criticizing or mocking anyone. I was just stating what I read & my thought on it. I think that there is confusion on the difference between mocking/criticism vs pointing out that it is not a valid excuse to bring up HRC (as irrelevant as she is now) to defend the actions of others. I believe that when peas had valid complaints about day trump and other gop members—and there was an aggressive move to change the conversation into HRC as a deflection, many of those speaking up felt shut down and silenced as it had nothing to do with what they were talking about—other than distraction/deflection. But then again, I’m stupid. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2018 17:25:59 GMT
I really don't care what snopes says. but you basically said 'just google it, and see what you get' when someone asked for specifics about where the quote came from. But now, you don't care what Snopes says- it's a Google result too, is it not? Just trying to understand the disconnect. I don't care what snopes says because I heard it, and if snopes says differently, then they are not correct. I don't put much faith in what snopes says most of the time anyhow. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Mar 14, 2018 17:27:35 GMT
story #410--why I lost. Just saw Hillary stating again why she lost--she NOW blames women that were coerced by their husbands, brothers, fathers to vote for Trump. Not too sure how many stories she's told since the election. 410 was just a guess. I didn't research it. Wasn't this latest one kind of a slap in the face of all females now? How many women here vote the way your husband or male in your life TELL you to vote. I've been married for 53 years, and can't remember ONE election that I voted for someone because my husband told me to. We have similar values, and often vote the same, but I've also voted for people that my husband hasn't voted for. It would be awesome if you would cite a source for this, otherwise, it's kind of like vaguebooking. I don't watch television during the day. Fox is all over it. So is the National Review, the Beacon... |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2018 17:35:18 GMT
It would be awesome if you would cite a source for this, otherwise, it's kind of like vaguebooking. I don't watch television during the day. Fox is all over it. So is the National Review, the Beacon... Well there was some talk on The View I think yesterday about some of her comments, and that show is FAR from right. I don’t watch the show but saw a clip. I had switched channels a bit this morning and there’s been other mention of her comments. |
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lizacreates
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Post by lizacreates on Mar 14, 2018 17:37:27 GMT
I have to say it’s rather disappointing for me. Her doing it once might be just a mistake, but doing it twice indicates to me that’s what she really believes.
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Post by cadoodlebug on Mar 14, 2018 18:04:48 GMT
I could be wrong but I think a lot of women would vote for not only a woman, but a black woman, if given the right candidate. I would support Condoleezza Rice in a heartbeat if she became a candidate. JMHO of course.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2018 18:04:57 GMT
and that facebook clip has been doing the rounds for nearly a year. Maybe check out SNOPES
It wasn't a clip. She's in India--it just happened this week--and it was her speaking. I heard it with my own ears. I really don't care what snopes says. When you hear it in her own words, and see the words coming out of her mouth, it's real. Not sure if this will work trying to embed the actual video rather than snipets taken from and posted elsewhere. Watch from 40.00 where she is asked a question and listen to her answer. Nope not working........ but here is the link to the whole interview. The video is long from the very beginning but she has a lot of interesting comments and not one of them can be taken as " she blames everyone but herself" in it. |
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Mar 14, 2018 18:15:08 GMT
I don't have time to concentrate on that right now, but thank you, @dottyscrapper, for posting the link to the entire speech. I do want to listen to it, so I'm marking my spot to find the link easier later.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2018 18:19:15 GMT
I have to say it’s rather disappointing for me. Her doing it once might be just a mistake, but doing it twice indicates to me that’s what she really believes. If you listen to her speech before she has a one to one interview on the link I posted. her thoughts on women is definitely not a reflection on what she actually said when discussing it at 40.00 ( time wise) in that video. In fact the whole video is very interesting but it is more than an hour long but well worth listening to. |
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Post by pierkiss on Mar 14, 2018 18:22:29 GMT
I could be wrong but I think a lot of women would vote for not only a woman, but a black woman, if given the right candidate. I would support Condoleezza Rice in a heartbeat if she became a candidate. JMHO of course. I would totally vote for a woman (and I did). Any age, any race, any whatever adjective you want to insert. Same thing goes for a man. But the woman has to be a person that I believe could competently do the job they’re running for. Their political beliefs and agendas need to line up with mine (mostly) or else their not getting my vote. Isn’t that the way it’s supposed to work? You vote for the person you think can do the best job? I don’t understand people refusing to vote for a qualified candidate based solely on their gender or skin color or ethnicity. I wish we could get past that as a society. |
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by lizacreates on Mar 14, 2018 18:30:56 GMT
I have to say it’s rather disappointing for me. Her doing it once might be just a mistake, but doing it twice indicates to me that’s what she really believes. If you listen to her speech before she has a one to one interview on the link I posted. her thoughts on women is definitely not a reflection on what she actually said when discussing it at 40.00 ( time wise) in that video. In fact the whole video is very interesting but it is more than an hour long but well worth listening to. Dotty, I know what her thoughts are on women. I voted for her. It doesn’t change the fact that in two instances, she supported the belief that (white) women defer to their husbands, etc. in voting and that had been one of the causes of her defeat. That’s why I said I was disappointed. If she wasn’t my candidate, there wouldn’t be a need for me to be disappointed. I’m not even bringing up another mistake she made in the India speech because that’ll really derail this thread. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2018 18:35:34 GMT
If you listen to her speech before she has a one to one interview on the link I posted. her thoughts on women is definitely not a reflection on what she actually said when discussing it at 40.00 ( time wise) in that video. In fact the whole video is very interesting but it is more than an hour long but well worth listening to. Dotty, I know what her thoughts are on women. I voted for her. It doesn’t change the fact that in two instances, she supported the belief that (white) women defer to their husbands, etc. in voting and that had been one of the causes of her defeat. That’s why I said I was disappointed. If she wasn’t my candidate, there wouldn’t be a need for me to be disappointed. I’m not even bringing up another mistake she made in the India speech because that’ll really derail this thread. But it isn't what it sounded like if you listen to the whole one to one though. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2018 18:38:48 GMT
Since HRC got 3 million more votes than Trump, I don't know how anyone can even make the argument that this country won't vote for a woman.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2018 18:40:28 GMT
Dotty, I know what her thoughts are on women. I voted for her. It doesn’t change the fact that in two instances, she supported the belief that (white) women defer to their husbands, etc. in voting and that had been one of the causes of her defeat. That’s why I said I was disappointed. If she wasn’t my candidate, there wouldn’t be a need for me to be disappointed. I’m not even bringing up another mistake she made in the India speech because that’ll really derail this thread.But it isn't what it sounded like if you listen to the whole one to one though. Yes, I heard that too, and passed on it- |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2018 18:45:49 GMT
Dang it, now I want to know what she said that I missed. Not enough to listen to an hour or so speech, lol.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2018 18:46:43 GMT
Dang it, now I want to know what she said that I missed. Not enough to listen to an hour or so speech, lol. Me, too! Someone spill it!  |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Mar 14, 2018 18:47:46 GMT
Fox is all over it. So is the National Review, the Beacon... Well there was some talk on The View I think yesterday about some of her comments, and that show is FAR from right. I don’t watch the show but saw a clip. I had switched channels a bit this morning and there’s been other mention of her comments. I’ve never seen The View, Ellen, Dr. Phil, or any of those other types of talk shows. I’ll read up to an episode of Dr. Oz, but only because I was not near the remote to turn the channel! If someone here talks about something seen on them, I might search out YouTube for a video replay. I just googled and those are all the top news outlets that came up first. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2018 18:48:05 GMT
Dang it, now I want to know what she said that I missed. Not enough to listen to an hour or so speech, lol. Me, too! Someone spill it! Yeah-bring it! |
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Post by redhead32 on Mar 14, 2018 18:50:18 GMT
If you listen to her speech before she has a one to one interview on the link I posted. her thoughts on women is definitely not a reflection on what she actually said when discussing it at 40.00 ( time wise) in that video. In fact the whole video is very interesting but it is more than an hour long but well worth listening to. Dotty, I know what her thoughts are on women. I voted for her. It doesn’t change the fact that in two instances, she supported the belief that (white) women defer to their husbands, etc. in voting and that had been one of the causes of her defeat. That’s why I said I was disappointed. If she wasn’t my candidate, there wouldn’t be a need for me to be disappointed. I’m not even bringing up another mistake she made in the India speech because that’ll really derail this thread. I didn't listen to the video (disclaimer) but many of the people who voted for Trump self-identify as Evangelical. And one of the beliefs of many of the Evangelical denominations/movements is that the husband is the head of the household. The woman's role is to complement and, in some denominations/movements, submit to his authority as the husband submits to God's authority. Also, in many Evangelical churches, the lead pastor is a white male and sets the tone without directly addressing politics. It was very clear to me that the only candidate it was permissible to vote for was Trump, and to vote otherwise meant I was not a good Christian. (PS: My husband doesn't pressure me to vote for anyone, and I made my own choices - just sharing what I have seen and heard and been exposed to.) In those situations, if the husband has determined that the Republican candidate is the correct candid and the message is echoed from the pulpit, I think there is an extreme amount of pressure placed upon women to vote as directed. I have no clue if this is what HRC was talking about, because I didn't watch the video. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2018 18:55:16 GMT
Dotty, I know what her thoughts are on women. I voted for her. It doesn’t change the fact that in two instances, she supported the belief that (white) women defer to their husbands, etc. in voting and that had been one of the causes of her defeat. That’s why I said I was disappointed. If she wasn’t my candidate, there wouldn’t be a need for me to be disappointed. I’m not even bringing up another mistake she made in the India speech because that’ll really derail this thread. I didn't listen to the video (disclaimer) but many of the people who voted for Trump self-identify as Evangelical. And one of the beliefs of many of the Evangelical denominations/movements is that the husband is the head of the household. The woman's role is to complement and, in some denominations/movements, submit to his authority as the husband submits to God's authority. Also, in many Evangelical churches, the lead pastor is a white male and sets the tone without directly addressing politics. It was very clear to me that the only candidate it was permissible to vote for was Trump, and to vote otherwise meant I was not a good Christian. (PS: My husband doesn't pressure me to vote for anyone, and I made my own choices - just sharing what I have seen and heard and been exposed to.) In those situations, if the husband has determined that the Republican candidate is the correct candid and the message is echoed from the pulpit, I think there is an extreme amount of pressure placed upon women to vote as directed. I have no clue if this is what HRC was talking about, because I didn't watch the video. I'm an evangelical Christian, and my husband has NEVER told me who to vote for --ever. (and I didn't vote for either of the leading candidates in last presidential election.) |
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Post by cadoodlebug on Mar 14, 2018 19:06:10 GMT
Unless the husband, boyfriend, boss, etc. goes into the voting booth with a gun to her head, how in the heck would anyone know who she voted for?
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Post by redhead32 on Mar 14, 2018 20:22:28 GMT
I didn't listen to the video (disclaimer) but many of the people who voted for Trump self-identify as Evangelical. And one of the beliefs of many of the Evangelical denominations/movements is that the husband is the head of the household. The woman's role is to complement and, in some denominations/movements, submit to his authority as the husband submits to God's authority. [ETA: This comes from the verses in 1 Corinthians, I think - I didn't look it up so I'm working from memory, but the verses about wives submitting to their husbands and parents not nagging their children.] Also, in many Evangelical churches, the lead pastor is a white male and sets the tone without directly addressing politics. It was very clear to me that the only candidate it was permissible to vote for was Trump, and to vote otherwise meant I was not a good Christian. (PS: My husband doesn't pressure me to vote for anyone, and I made my own choices - just sharing what I have seen and heard and been exposed to.) In those situations, if the husband has determined that the Republican candidate is the correct candid and the message is echoed from the pulpit, I think there is an extreme amount of pressure placed upon women to vote as directed. I have no clue if this is what HRC was talking about, because I didn't watch the video. I'm an evangelical Christian, and my husband has NEVER told me who to vote for --ever. (and I didn't vote for either of the leading candidates in last presidential election.) OK? I didn't say it held true for every Evangelical. But I AM saying that this is the mindset, or teaching, or culture, or whatever you want to call it that I have seen. IN GENERAL, Evangelicals follow the complementarian theology of the husband as head of the family and the one who makes the decisions. The wife is his helpmate and submits (what that means is obviously open to interpretation). If a woman grows up in this culture/theology and her husband is a strong Republican who believes Democrats hate God and country (like the PA Rep. said a couple days ago), then it is likely that she will vote as her husband wishes. And of course, no one is in the voting booth with the woman as she votes. But I don't think we need to search very deep to understand the psychological impact of being immersed in a culture that praises submission and doesn't necessarily favor independence and free thinking. That is all I was getting at. It isn't every Evangelical woman's experience, but it most definitely is true for some. Maybe many. Maybe even most. |
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Post by redhead32 on Mar 14, 2018 20:27:11 GMT
I didn't listen to the video (disclaimer) but many of the people who voted for Trump self-identify as Evangelical. And one of the beliefs of many of the Evangelical denominations/movements is that the husband is the head of the household. The woman's role is to complement and, in some denominations/movements, submit to his authority as the husband submits to God's authority. Also, in many Evangelical churches, the lead pastor is a white male and sets the tone without directly addressing politics. It was very clear to me that the only candidate it was permissible to vote for was Trump, and to vote otherwise meant I was not a good Christian. (PS: My husband doesn't pressure me to vote for anyone, and I made my own choices - just sharing what I have seen and heard and been exposed to.) In those situations, if the husband has determined that the Republican candidate is the correct candid and the message is echoed from the pulpit, I think there is an extreme amount of pressure placed upon women to vote as directed. I have no clue if this is what HRC was talking about, because I didn't watch the video. I'm an evangelical Christian, and my husband has NEVER told me who to vote for --ever. (and I didn't vote for either of the leading candidates in last presidential election.) One other thought on this. Do you know who your husband voted for? Do you have a male pastor/preacher? Have you been told - directly or indirectly - that Democrats are not Christian (usually because of the abortion issue, but I've heard it expressed other ways as well). I was explicitly told by men in my former church that I could not be Christian and vote for a Democrat. Not just HRC - this happened during the Obama/Romney election as well. Republican was the only option in order to fit into the church view of what Christian means, according to these men. So your husband (and mine) might not be forcing their views upon us, but that doesn't mean that other Evangelical men are not. I'd also like to point out that very very very few white Evangelical churches have female preachers. Either that denomination doesn't allow it, or even if it is allowed, they are rarely the lead pastor. Usually you find them in the office as an admin or in the kid's ministry. |
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Post by cadoodlebug on Mar 14, 2018 20:31:02 GMT
I'm an evangelical Christian, and my husband has NEVER told me who to vote for --ever. (and I didn't vote for either of the leading candidates in last presidential election.) OK? I didn't say it held true for every Evangelical. But I AM saying that this is the mindset, or teaching, or culture, or whatever you want to call it that I have seen. IN GENERAL, Evangelicals follow the complementarian theology of the husband as head of the family and the one who makes the decisions. The wife is his helpmate and submits (what that means is obviously open to interpretation). If a woman grows up in this culture/theology and her husband is a strong Republican who believes Democrats hate God and country (like the PA Rep. said a couple days ago), then it is likely that she will vote as her husband wishes. And of course, no one is in the voting booth with the woman as she votes. But I don't think we need to search very deep to understand the psychological impact of being immersed in a culture that praises submission and doesn't necessarily favor independence and free thinking. That is all I was getting at. It isn't every Evangelical woman's experience, but it most definitely is true for some. Maybe many. Maybe even most. Couldn't we make the same comparisons with unions voting for democrats? I'm sure there are many men who spout the union *way* of voting to their wives. Maybe it's different in other states but CA is pretty much run by the unions and democrats. |
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Post by Merge on Mar 14, 2018 20:44:32 GMT
OK? I didn't say it held true for every Evangelical. But I AM saying that this is the mindset, or teaching, or culture, or whatever you want to call it that I have seen. IN GENERAL, Evangelicals follow the complementarian theology of the husband as head of the family and the one who makes the decisions. The wife is his helpmate and submits (what that means is obviously open to interpretation). If a woman grows up in this culture/theology and her husband is a strong Republican who believes Democrats hate God and country (like the PA Rep. said a couple days ago), then it is likely that she will vote as her husband wishes. And of course, no one is in the voting booth with the woman as she votes. But I don't think we need to search very deep to understand the psychological impact of being immersed in a culture that praises submission and doesn't necessarily favor independence and free thinking. That is all I was getting at. It isn't every Evangelical woman's experience, but it most definitely is true for some. Maybe many. Maybe even most. Couldn't we make the same comparisons with unions voting for democrats? I'm sure there are many men who spout the union *way* of voting to their wives. Maybe it's different in other states but CA is pretty much run by the unions and democrats. Since the heavily union rust belt went for Trump, I don’t think the union has quite the same influence on voting patterns that religion does in the Bible Belt. We’re so messed up in our house that I tell my husband who to vote for. 😂 |
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Post by redhead32 on Mar 14, 2018 20:53:39 GMT
OK? I didn't say it held true for every Evangelical. But I AM saying that this is the mindset, or teaching, or culture, or whatever you want to call it that I have seen. IN GENERAL, Evangelicals follow the complementarian theology of the husband as head of the family and the one who makes the decisions. The wife is his helpmate and submits (what that means is obviously open to interpretation). If a woman grows up in this culture/theology and her husband is a strong Republican who believes Democrats hate God and country (like the PA Rep. said a couple days ago), then it is likely that she will vote as her husband wishes. And of course, no one is in the voting booth with the woman as she votes. But I don't think we need to search very deep to understand the psychological impact of being immersed in a culture that praises submission and doesn't necessarily favor independence and free thinking. That is all I was getting at. It isn't every Evangelical woman's experience, but it most definitely is true for some. Maybe many. Maybe even most. Couldn't we make the same comparisons with unions voting for democrats? I'm sure there are many men who spout the union *way* of voting to their wives. Maybe it's different in other states but CA is pretty much run by the unions and democrats. Sure. But I was talking about what I personally have seen/know, and men telling their wives not to vote for HRC. I've got nothing when it comes to union guys/vote dem. |
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River
Pearl Clutcher
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Location: Alabama
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Post by River on Mar 14, 2018 21:04:45 GMT
Unless the husband, boyfriend, boss, etc. goes into the voting booth with a gun to her head, how in the heck would anyone know who she voted for? I just want to point out that there's not a voting booth in a lot of rural or small towns. Most of the voting here takes place in an open community center with rows of tables. Unless you bring something to shield your ballot, anyone sitting close to you can easily see who you voted for. If a husband and wife goes together, they are likely to sit beside each other and therefore see ones vote. This has been my personal experience for my entire voting life. I've never seen a voting "booth" except on TV and have never had complete privacy as I voted. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2018 21:05:08 GMT
I'm an evangelical Christian, and my husband has NEVER told me who to vote for --ever. (and I didn't vote for either of the leading candidates in last presidential election.) One other thought on this. Do you know who your husband voted for? Do you have a male pastor/preacher? Have you been told - directly or indirectly - that Democrats are not Christian (usually because of the abortion issue, but I've heard it expressed other ways as well). I was explicitly told by men in my former church that I could not be Christian and vote for a Democrat. Not just HRC - this happened during the Obama/Romney election as well. Republican was the only option in order to fit into the church view of what Christian means, according to these men. So your husband (and mine) might not be forcing their views upon us, but that doesn't mean that other Evangelical men are not. I'd also like to point out that very very very few white Evangelical churches have female preachers. Either that denomination doesn't allow it, or even if it is allowed, they are rarely the lead pastor. Usually you find them in the office as an admin or in the kid's ministry. Yes I do know who my husband voted for. My male pastor voted for Hillary. (that did NOT come in a sermon, but our talks between my dh, his wife, and myself socially.) They did not urge us to vote any one way in private or in the service-ever. I don't attend a "white" evengelical church. We're about evenly numbered, white, hispanic, black. My pastor and his wife are Hispanic in fact. I attended a church growing up that had a female pastor. (it was Methodist Evangelical). |
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Post by redhead32 on Mar 14, 2018 21:07:24 GMT
OK? I didn't say it held true for every Evangelical. But I AM saying that this is the mindset, or teaching, or culture, or whatever you want to call it that I have seen. IN GENERAL, Evangelicals follow the complementarian theology of the husband as head of the family and the one who makes the decisions. The wife is his helpmate and submits (what that means is obviously open to interpretation). If a woman grows up in this culture/theology and her husband is a strong Republican who believes Democrats hate God and country (like the PA Rep. said a couple days ago), then it is likely that she will vote as her husband wishes. And of course, no one is in the voting booth with the woman as she votes. But I don't think we need to search very deep to understand the psychological impact of being immersed in a culture that praises submission and doesn't necessarily favor independence and free thinking. That is all I was getting at. It isn't every Evangelical woman's experience, but it most definitely is true for some. Maybe many. Maybe even most. Couldn't we make the same comparisons with unions voting for democrats? I'm sure there are many men who spout the union *way* of voting to their wives. Maybe it's different in other states but CA is pretty much run by the unions and democrats. Still thinking about this. Why can't women choose who to vote for? Why - either Evangelical or union - does a man need to tell them what to think? I don't have a lot of union experience. My husband's union and my husband himself are not anything at all like you are describing. The danger with Evangelical power over a wife is that it viewed as coming from God, and to disobey or question is a sin. I don't get that same sense from unions, even if they are powerful as influencers. Your immortal soul isn't in danger if you buck the union, so it feels different. I have yet to read an Evangelical pastor/preacher/theologian who doesn't adhere to complementarianism. This viewpoint means that women cannot stand up. In my opinion, it ties into the #metoo in churches, the abuse of power, and the extremes of Christianity where God's word is used as a bludgeon to force others to do the wielder's will. I know all Christianity has its abuses, and I've belonged to several denominations. I've never been told my place by a church in the same way as I was in an Evangelical setting, and to question it meant questioning God (in their view). |
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Post by redhead32 on Mar 14, 2018 21:11:30 GMT
One other thought on this. Do you know who your husband voted for? Do you have a male pastor/preacher? Have you been told - directly or indirectly - that Democrats are not Christian (usually because of the abortion issue, but I've heard it expressed other ways as well). I was explicitly told by men in my former church that I could not be Christian and vote for a Democrat. Not just HRC - this happened during the Obama/Romney election as well. Republican was the only option in order to fit into the church view of what Christian means, according to these men. So your husband (and mine) might not be forcing their views upon us, but that doesn't mean that other Evangelical men are not. I'd also like to point out that very very very few white Evangelical churches have female preachers. Either that denomination doesn't allow it, or even if it is allowed, they are rarely the lead pastor. Usually you find them in the office as an admin or in the kid's ministry. Yes I do know who my husband voted for. My male pastor voted for Hillary. (that did NOT come in a sermon, but our talks between my dh, his wife, and myself socially.) They did not urge us to vote any one way in private or in the service-ever. I don't attend a "white" evengelical church. We're about evenly numbered, white, hispanic, black. My pastor and his wife are Hispanic in fact. I attended a church growing up that had a female pastor. (it was Methodist Evangelical). Yeah. Not the same as what I'm talking about then, not at all. Predominantly white Evangelical churches have been in the news a lot lately. It might be worth it to read some of the articles, from the Atlantic and from Forbes (although that one got pulled and is not available on their site anymore) to get a different perspective. I was explicitly told I could not vote anything but Republican. I had an associate pastor put down Democrats, and a prominent church male put down liberals, in a meeting I was attending. And Methodists are mainline Protestant. Not the same. I'm not undercutting your experience, but it's like comparing Catholics and Congregationalists. There are similarities but they are different at their essence. |
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