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Post by gmcwife1 on Apr 4, 2018 18:10:49 GMT
No matter what you think of Trump, it always amazes me when Trump says or does the exact same thing former presidents or other politicians have said or done and suddenly it's terrifying and means something entirely different. Because Trump. Liberal gently wading in here to comment - hope it’s okay. I think there here are many issues where the right and the left aren’t that far apart. I feel that with Trump’s seemingly lack of compassion, wanting the wall and his prejudices towards non Caucasians are what make his comments on immigration so different. Im also a Californian so I’ll chime in about our taxes... The liberals I know are unhappy with the current financial situation in California. I’m happy to pay taxes, in fact I have no issue with high taxes. What I’d like to see is some thought put in to where the money is spent. High vehicle and gas taxes are fine with me - but how come our roads and bridges are falling apart - let us see the benefits of our taxes -where is the money going. Taxes for schools - great - but repair the schools. I hope I didn’t overstep here. I’ve been enjoying reading this thread. Just wanted to share my thoughts. Nice to have you Clair, welcome
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2018 18:12:36 GMT
No matter what you think of Trump, it always amazes me when Trump says or does the exact same thing former presidents or other politicians have said or done and suddenly it's terrifying and means something entirely different. Because Trump. Liberal gently wading in here to comment - hope it’s okay. I think there here are many issues where the right and the left aren’t that far apart.
I feel that with Trump’s seemingly lack of compassion, wanting the wall and his prejudices towards non Caucasians are what make his comments on immigration so different. Im also a Californian so I’ll chime in about our taxes... The liberals I know are unhappy with the current financial situation in California. I’m happy to pay taxes, in fact I have no issue with high taxes. What I’d like to see is some thought put in to where the money is spent. High vehicle and gas taxes are fine with me - but how come our roads and bridges are falling apart - let us see the benefits of our taxes -where is the money going. Taxes for schools - great - but repair the schools. I hope I didn’t overstep here. I’ve been enjoying reading this thread. Just wanted to share my thoughts.
I think you are totally right about not being that far apart in some areas. Personally, I didn't vote for Trump, but those that did vote for him, knew his personality. He IS our president, and as such, he and his family should be treated with the respect of a president of the usa. I didn't care for Obama, but never ever called him the names our current president has been called, nor disrespected him in public forums the way this president and his family have been disrespected. I am not that happy to pay more taxes, as we're retired, and on a fixed income. So, when the taxes go up, we do without something else. And then when I see where the tax money is going (bullet train as was mentioned above) and see the condition of our schools and our roads, I don't like to pay taxes again! You didn't overstep here at all. You gave your opinion respectfully, and didn't cause a ruckus!! You are very welcome to return!! as is anybody that shares their concerns.
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
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Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Apr 4, 2018 18:22:00 GMT
anmore, I live in California, and for a fiscally conservative to live here, it's torture sometimes!! I hear you on priorities. Right now, California's priority seems to be tax the people until they become homeless! And we're stuck with "representatives" like Nancy Polosie and Dianne Feinstein!! They are the rich people that live in areas with no homeless around them, telling us "little people" to take care of them all. Taxation is the common lament by my sister who lives in Fremont. Practically every time we chat the issue of taxes comes up. She feels like so many other middle class residents that they’re being taxed to death. The recent gas tax (in addition to sales tax increase and transportation improvement fee) was an example. She said she can’t understand how this even got approved when the majority of Californians were opposed to it. She said all of the nickle-and-diming in addition to property tax amount to a huge sum for her and she’s a professional who has a decent income. She has one more year before she plans to retire and has made up her mind she’s done. She’ll be packing up, selling her house and moving to another state.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2018 18:24:43 GMT
But, but, but....we have a bullet train to pay for! I am so tired of being taxed to death in this state with nothing to show for it. Our roads are in desperate need of repair, we have dams breaking, our parks are in bad shape, schools are in poor condition, etc. Where in the heck are all of our taxes going to in this state? Other states with zero state income tax, but slightly higher property taxes (like Oregon) have roads that are wonderfully maintained, state parks are clean with beautiful facilities. You feel like their taxes are going to something! Or at least I do. We in NYS are being taxed to death as well. link And dear old Andrew Cuomo is upset the the Feds removed the deductibility of state and local taxes (which includes property taxes) but G_d forbid he lower taxes....nooooooo we can't do that. Thankfully we have a cap of 2% on school taxes. We are the #2 state for highest paid teachers link. And we pay annually about $20k per student in public school. Private school costs less in tuition. Unfortunately there was a measure to increase the # of SRO's in the schools but the democratic senators prefer more gun control. For perspective, my house is assessed in the mid $50's. I paid $5704 in property taxes last year. That does not include how much we pay in income tax. Or in my county, the 8.75% sales tax.
Our sales tax is 9.5%, which is about average for cities in Los Angeles County and higher than average for California (7.75%) Our teachers are paid is $61,621, as of March 01, 2018, with a range usually between $53,797-$71,143 not including bonus and benefit information and other factors that impact base pay. I don't know how that ranks nationally.
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Post by gar on Apr 4, 2018 18:30:32 GMT
but never ever called him the names our current president has been called, nor disrespected him in public forums the way this president and his family have been disrespected. Non American, neither Dem nor Rep pea here so I assume I'm permitted to post? At least one member here regularly called Barack Obama rude names and, if I may say so, no other president has ever been so openly disrespectful to others and this I believe makes people think "Well, if he can do it, why shouldn't I?" He's a leader, he should set the tone, lead by example, not loudly call people liars, disparage their businesses in public etc etc etc - it's honestly shocking how he behaves. Michelle Obama was certainly disrespected too - again here, I recall her being spoken about in appalling, racist terms. Respect is earned not automatically given. Be respectful, be respected.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2018 18:58:31 GMT
Even I told those with opposing views they were welcome to read and even ask questions here, but what I'd hoped to avoid was any personal insults, the kind of broad "you people" type insults, or the useless kind of bickering that doesn't discuss an idea but rather becomes about the people expressing the idea. Like I said to everyone before, if you're talking about the person typing the words, then you've lost sight of the point and I, personally, don't like those types of comments here. But, like I also said, it's an open message board and I(we) can't keep anyone from posting whatever they want. @gar - see above. Anyone is welcome.
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Post by LuvAgoodPaddle on Apr 4, 2018 19:01:03 GMT
But, but, but....we have a bullet train to pay for! I am so tired of being taxed to death in this state with nothing to show for it. Our roads are in desperate need of repair, we have dams breaking, our parks are in bad shape, schools are in poor condition, etc. Where in the heck are all of our taxes going to in this state? Other states with zero state income tax, but slightly higher property taxes (like Oregon) have roads that are wonderfully maintained, state parks are clean with beautiful facilities. You feel like their taxes are going to something! Or at least I do. Oregon roads suck. The freeways our woefully inadequate and dangerous. Potholes are a huge problem on surface streets and when citizens try to fix them themselves (because Portland) they are arrested. Portland Public schools are nothing to be proud of. I blame that on the district office though, they haven’t had a successful superintendent in eons. They actually paid one man 300,000 just to go away. Imagine what could have been done with that money in the classroom. Property taxes in Oregon are all over the place, Portland is the biggest city but neighboring cities (and I mean cities actually next to Portland) actually have higher property taxes then their neighbors in Portland. Schools buildings in Portland have lead in the drinking water and they are taking their own sweet time fixing it. In the meantime they are paying for bottled drinking water for each contaminated building. It is absurd. Give me Washington and their sales tax any day of the week. The problem isn’t funding it is how the funds are spent. And my word, don’t get me started on the homeless problem in Portland. I'm not trying to make this a "my state sucks more than your state", but in the last few years we've traveled to neighboring states quite a bit. Every single time as soon as we cross the border, both of us comment on how much better the roads are. You don't realize how bad they are here when driving on them everyday, until you drive on a decent road. Maybe we are just getting lucky on the highways we've traveled through OR, WA (Spokane side), NV, ID and AZ but it's a noticeable difference to us. I voted against raising the gas tax and vehicle registration costs because there is no way that money will be earmarked to where we were told it is going. If money was handled in this state correctly, then they wouldn't have to keep raise taxes. I will never vote for any new tax in this state.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2018 19:02:11 GMT
No matter what you think of Trump, it always amazes me when Trump says or does the exact same thing former presidents or other politicians have said or done and suddenly it's terrifying and means something entirely different. Because Trump. Liberal gently wading in here to comment - hope it’s okay. I think there here are many issues where the right and the left aren’t that far apart. I feel that with Trump’s seemingly lack of compassion, wanting the wall and his prejudices towards non Caucasians are what make his comments on immigration so different. Im also a Californian so I’ll chime in about our taxes... The liberals I know are unhappy with the current financial situation in California. I’m happy to pay taxes, in fact I have no issue with high taxes. What I’d like to see is some thought put in to where the money is spent. High vehicle and gas taxes are fine with me - but how come our roads and bridges are falling apart - let us see the benefits of our taxes -where is the money going. Taxes for schools - great - but repair the schools. I hope I didn’t overstep here. I’ve been enjoying reading this thread. Just wanted to share my thoughts. I agree with this. Here's where I disagree. I don't know anything about his lack of compassion, what are you basing that on? I think the "prejudices" are manufactured by the media, pushed by opposing politicians and picked up and run with by those that want it to be so. And I know (since we're already talking about past presidents and such) at least Hillary and Obama both called for a wall themselves and no one had a problem with it when THEY did. That makes no sense other than "but Trump".
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Post by LuvAgoodPaddle on Apr 4, 2018 19:06:35 GMT
I’m happy to pay taxes, in fact I have no issue with high taxes. What I’d like to see is some thought put in to where the money is spent. High vehicle and gas taxes are fine with me - but how come our roads and bridges are falling apart - let us see the benefits of our taxes -where is the money going. Taxes for schools - great - but repair the schools. This! We pay taxes out the wazhoo but where are the benefits? We were already paying very high vehicle and gas taxes, so where has that money all gone too where they had to raise them again?!?! Zero faith that it will be going to fix anything and will just be more wasted tax payer money.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2018 19:09:39 GMT
Liberal gently wading in here to comment - hope it’s okay. I think there here are many issues where the right and the left aren’t that far apart. I feel that with Trump’s seemingly lack of compassion, wanting the wall and his prejudices towards non Caucasians are what make his comments on immigration so different. Im also a Californian so I’ll chime in about our taxes... The liberals I know are unhappy with the current financial situation in California. I’m happy to pay taxes, in fact I have no issue with high taxes. What I’d like to see is some thought put in to where the money is spent. High vehicle and gas taxes are fine with me - but how come our roads and bridges are falling apart - let us see the benefits of our taxes -where is the money going. Taxes for schools - great - but repair the schools. I hope I didn’t overstep here. I’ve been enjoying reading this thread. Just wanted to share my thoughts. I agree with this. Here's where I disagree. I don't know anything about his lack of compassion, what are you basing that on? I think the "prejudices" are manufactured by the media, pushed by opposing politicians and picked up and run with by those that want it to be so. And I know (since we're already talking about past presidents and such) at least Hillary and Obama both called for a wall themselves and no one had a problem with it when THEY did. That makes no sense other than "but Trump".
According to this article, the wall has been talked about, and some built on and off since 1924. www.dailynews.com/2016/07/20/donald-trump-isnt-the-first-to-call-for-mexico-wall/
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,862
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Apr 4, 2018 19:10:45 GMT
Here's where I disagree. I don't know anything about his lack of compassion, what are you basing that on? I think the "prejudices" are manufactured by the media, pushed by opposing politicians and picked up and run with by those that want it to be so. And I know (since we're already talking about past presidents and such) at least Hillary and Obama both called for a wall themselves and no one had a problem with it when THEY did. That makes no sense other than "but Trump". I’m not Clair, but I’d like to chime in quickly. My main objection with the Wall is simply that we cannot afford it. I just about lost my mind when Repubs and Dems passed that obscene $1.3 trillion spending bill (which, btw, has billions in appropriations for other countries). We just keep spending money as if our children and grandchildren will magically be spared the pain of paying our growing debts! I recognize that Trump has taken a hardline position with illegal immigration and it’s one of his major campaign planks. At the end of the day, how will we pay for this?
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Post by LuvAgoodPaddle on Apr 4, 2018 19:15:21 GMT
And I know (since we're already talking about past presidents and such) at least Hillary and Obama both called for a wall themselves and no one had a problem with it when THEY did. That makes no sense other than "but Trump". Totally my opinion, but I think it's because he's the first that will probably follow through with it. That is scary to a lot of people. Edited to add: I agree with the poster above and I am not for it either. I just don't feel the benefits outweigh the costs. That is a crapton of money.
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Deleted
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Nov 24, 2024 21:50:33 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2018 19:34:41 GMT
Here's where I disagree. I don't know anything about his lack of compassion, what are you basing that on? I think the "prejudices" are manufactured by the media, pushed by opposing politicians and picked up and run with by those that want it to be so. And I know (since we're already talking about past presidents and such) at least Hillary and Obama both called for a wall themselves and no one had a problem with it when THEY did. That makes no sense other than "but Trump". I’m not Clair, but I’d like to chime in quickly. My main objection with the Wall is simply that we cannot afford it. I just about lost my mind when Repubs and Dems passed that obscene $1.3 trillion spending bill (which, btw, has billions in appropriations for other countries). We just keep spending money as if our children and grandchildren will magically be spared the pain of paying our growing debts! I recognize that Trump has taken a hardline position with illegal immigration and it’s one of his major campaign planks. At the end of the day, how will we pay for this? I can understand the objection to the high cost and how we'll pay for it. There have been studies that show if just a fraction of illegal immigrants are stopped by the wall, the savings of the costs incurred from having them in the country vs. not having them, would cover the wall. But really, the point being made is that it was okay for everyone else (who did) to call for a wall, but Trump doing it is wrong. That makes no sense.
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Deleted
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Nov 24, 2024 21:50:33 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2018 19:36:27 GMT
anmore, I live in California, and for a fiscally conservative to live here, it's torture sometimes!! I hear you on priorities. Right now, California's priority seems to be tax the people until they become homeless! And we're stuck with "representatives" like Nancy Polosie and Dianne Feinstein!! They are the rich people that live in areas with no homeless around them, telling us "little people" to take care of them all. Taxation is the common lament by my sister who lives in Fremont. Practically every time we chat the issue of taxes comes up. She feels like so many other middle class residents that they’re being taxed to death. The recent gas tax (in addition to sales tax increase and transportation improvement fee) was an example. She said she can’t understand how this even got approved when the majority of Californians were opposed to it. She said all of the nickle-and-diming in addition to property tax amount to a huge sum for her and she’s a professional who has a decent income. She has one more year before she plans to retire and has made up her mind she’s done. She’ll be packing up, selling her house and moving to another state. The taxpayers didn't vote for it. The Democratic led California State Legislature voted it in, and of course Jerry Brown, also a democrat, govenrnor signed it into law. I THINK it may be a ballot issue in the future though. Thankfully, this is the last term for Jerry Brown. He'll be out the next election (NOVEMBER 6, 2018) not that I'm counting the days, of course!
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Post by Skellinton on Apr 4, 2018 19:37:37 GMT
Oregon roads suck. The freeways our woefully inadequate and dangerous. Potholes are a huge problem on surface streets and when citizens try to fix them themselves (because Portland) they are arrested. Portland Public schools are nothing to be proud of. I blame that on the district office though, they haven’t had a successful superintendent in eons. They actually paid one man 300,000 just to go away. Imagine what could have been done with that money in the classroom. Property taxes in Oregon are all over the place, Portland is the biggest city but neighboring cities (and I mean cities actually next to Portland) actually have higher property taxes then their neighbors in Portland. Schools buildings in Portland have lead in the drinking water and they are taking their own sweet time fixing it. In the meantime they are paying for bottled drinking water for each contaminated building. It is absurd. Give me Washington and their sales tax any day of the week. The problem isn’t funding it is how the funds are spent. And my word, don’t get me started on the homeless problem in Portland. I'm not trying to make this a "my state sucks more than your state", but in the last few years we've traveled to neighboring states quite a bit. Every single time as soon as we cross the border, both of us comment on how much better the roads are. You don't realize how bad they are here when driving on them everyday, until you drive on a decent road. Maybe we are just getting lucky on the highways we've traveled through OR, WA (Spokane side), NV, ID and AZ but it's a noticeable difference to us. I voted against raising the gas tax and vehicle registration costs because there is no way that money will be earmarked to where we were told it is going. If money was handled in this state correctly, then they wouldn't have to keep raise taxes. I will never vote for any new tax in this state. I should have specified I was talking about Portland, specifically. Washington roads are very well maintained, but we also have hideous gas taxes compared to Oregon. I was just addressing the person who said that Oregon has higher property taxes but no sales tax. Portland is a freaking disaster for such a large city. I just don’t think Oregon should ever be held up as a paragon or example of money well spent. I also think the root of the problem is how money is spent, obviously.
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Post by katieanna on Apr 4, 2018 19:54:26 GMT
I voted against raising the gas tax and vehicle registration costs because there is no way that money will be earmarked to where we were told it is going. If money was handled in this state correctly, then they wouldn't have to keep raise taxes. I will never vote for any new tax in this state. This! We pay taxes out the wazhoo but where are the benefits? We were already paying very high vehicle and gas taxes, so where has that money all gone too where they had to raise them again?!?! Zero faith that it will be going to fix anything and will just be more wasted tax payer money. I think we all know where the bulk of our tax money goes...either into the deep pockets of our politicians or their cronies/supporters/buddies, etc. Until we institute a system where ALL government agencies are accountable for every cent that comes into their coffers via taxation, we will simply end up facing a future of increasing taxes, deplorable infrastructure, and devil-may-care politicians. I saw on the news a few weeks ago a lady who was divorced, made good money as a photographer, and lived in Los Angeles. The taxes were so high that she sold her home and bought a 5th wheel. She and her children (she had two or three) live in the 5th wheel and park it wherever they are able to...sometimes along open roads. She said that they stay there until an officer tells them to move on, and they do. She said that she is not the only one living like this - that there are many, many families living like that and they just move from place to place. Evidently, Los Angeles has a serious homeless problem because rent is outrageous, along with exorbitant housing costs, let alone the outlandish taxes. And it's getting like that everywhere. It's frightening what's happening to our country. It's so frightening that you have to wonder why people even want to immigrate here. True, there's "freedom" (what's left of it), but I guarantee you, we're heading toward becoming a third world country if we, as a nation, don't get our act together. The question is: where do we even begin?
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Post by LuvAgoodPaddle on Apr 4, 2018 19:54:38 GMT
I was just addressing the person who said that Oregon has higher property taxes but no sales tax. Portland is a freaking disaster for such a large city. I just don’t think Oregon should ever be held up as a paragon or example of money well spent. I have only spent a few days in Portland, so I only saw a very small portion of the city. I did mention earlier that OR seems to do ok with lower taxes and higher property taxes, but that was based on my time spent in Southern OR. The city and state parks we visited were so clean with nice facilities (especially in the Bend area) and all the roads we drove on seemed to be very well maintained, even with the winters they have. I know not 100% of any state is going to be great, but I only mentioned OR because the areas I have visited all seemed to be using their tax money more wisely compared to CA when it came to parks and roads. We did not see as many homeless as we do here (and I'm not in what I would call a big city), but I do understand they tend to gravitate towards the larger cities like Portland. The homeless have taken over all our local parks where they are completely unusable anymore. Who wants to enjoy a nice day at the park dodging human feces and smells of urine?
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Post by pierkiss on Apr 4, 2018 19:57:09 GMT
Here's where I disagree. I don't know anything about his lack of compassion, what are you basing that on? I think the "prejudices" are manufactured by the media, pushed by opposing politicians and picked up and run with by those that want it to be so. And I know (since we're already talking about past presidents and such) at least Hillary and Obama both called for a wall themselves and no one had a problem with it when THEY did. That makes no sense other than "but Trump". I’m not Clair, but I’d like to chime in quickly. My main objection with the Wall is simply that we cannot afford it. I just about lost my mind when Repubs and Dems passed that obscene $1.3 trillion spending bill (which, btw, has billions in appropriations for other countries). We just keep spending money as if our children and grandchildren will magically be spared the pain of paying our growing debts! I recognize that Trump has taken a hardline position with illegal immigration and it’s one of his major campaign planks. At the end of the day, how will we pay for this? Yes! We cannot afford it. And, it absolutely will do nothing to curb illegal immigration in this country. Esp since they’re not all coming from Mexico. There are ladders, tunnels, waterways, mountainways, cars, trucks, planes that can all get around that freaking wall. All it will do is drain us of a resource that would be better spent elsewhere (schools, infrastructure, etc), be an eyesore, and enrich those who are deemed worthy of the fat contracts that are sure to come should it ever get fully funded. We will still have an immigration problem here.
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,862
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Apr 4, 2018 20:25:47 GMT
The taxpayers didn't vote for it. The Democratic led California State Legislature voted it in, and of course Jerry Brown, also a democrat, govenrnor signed it into law. I THINK it may be a ballot issue in the future though. Thankfully, this is the last term for Jerry Brown. He'll be out the next election (NOVEMBER 6, 2018) not that I'm counting the days, of course! I certainly wouldn't be surprised if it does become a ballot issue. My understanding, too (I may be wrong), is that there will be subsequent increases until 2020. There's only so much tax burden any middle class population can bear. On a another matter - the homeless situation! I visited last year and practically everywhere we went it seemed to me that the homelessness has deteriorated even more so in L.A. We have our own homelessness problems in Chicago, but I've never seen that many as I have in L.A. I would imagine this has got to be a crisis there.
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Post by jlynnbarth on Apr 4, 2018 20:27:27 GMT
I am in agreement with those that are asking "Where does the money go"? I will say that the city I live in does a pretty good job of actually spending the money on the things they say they are going to. It's the things they spend it on that are questionable to me. Did we really need a city hall built brand new when we have buildings sitting vacant across the city that could have been re-done? Things like that make me crazy. They said it's cheaper to just build a new one. Um ok, but I would have been fine with them spending a bit more to fix up the eye sores we have vacant! They built the new one in the parking lot of one of the old eye sores! So we have a beautiful new building in front of a run down old mall. It's like lipstick on a pig.
Our school district asks for money in the form of property tax levies and we always pass them because we know that our district will do what it says it's going to with the money. We are very very lucky in this respect. In fact the elementary school has a message on the reader board thanking the voters for passing the recent levy and that new A/C will be installed over the summer break. My kids went to this elementary school back in the day and they would come home with sweaty little bodies the last month and first couple months of school. I'm so happy they are finally getting the a/c they truly need.
Now the STATE? They need to pull their heads out! It's like they completely forget that they have the 2nd largest city in the state on this side of the Mountains over here! We have ONE freeway. 1-90 that runs east/west through our city. We have had a north/south freeway slotted to be done dating back to 1946! It's 10 stupid miles of freeway that would completely help our road situation over here. (can you say pot holes the size of Delaware on almost every downtown street)? Let alone the traffic nightmares that people that live on the Northside face daily. It literally takes 45 mins to an hour to go 10 miles because you have to go through downtown and it's traffic lights at every block. They finally broke ground on the freeway in 2001. The first 5 miles was completed in 2012. It's of course on the furthest point north. So basically only helps a small percentage of people in half of their commute. Our wonderful Governor (not) finally signed something last year giving us the money to complete the last 5 miles. It should be done in 2029. So as long as that doesn't stall out again due to price increases in materials etc... It will have taken 83 years to get 10 miles of freeway done over here. They seem to forget that the coast is not the only part of the state growing! We've had an 81% increase in our population on the east side from 1969 to 2016. I guess we're not as important as the people on the west side that always have new road projects going on to try and keep up with their needs. So our gas taxes and property taxes have been going up every year for "Road Projects" that have nothing to do with us and we might see completion of a 10 mile freeway in another 11 years. This is only one item I have issues with. There are a whole slew of them including the Property tax increase we are seeing this year because the state wasn't funding schools at a high enough rate as per our state constitution and so they were sued because of it. WHERE WAS THE MONEY GOING? It infuriates me!
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,862
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Apr 4, 2018 20:41:14 GMT
I can understand the objection to the high cost and how we'll pay for it. There have been studies that show if just a fraction of illegal immigrants are stopped by the wall, the savings of the costs incurred from having them in the country vs. not having them, would cover the wall. But really, the point being made is that it was okay for everyone else (who did) to call for a wall, but Trump doing it is wrong. That makes no sense. It’s the divisiveness – one side pitted against another. It’s always been this way as far back as I can remember (and I’m old, lol). What’s different this time is that the division is even more stark, and it’s bitter hatred now, not just plain vanilla opposition or disagreement between two parties. I’ve seen some heinous political fights in my time, but I’ve never seen this level of acrimony by both parties. As a moderate (centre-left), I sometimes feel helpless almost because every single thing is a fight. Every single thing has to exact a winner and a loser. It's war.
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Post by peano on Apr 4, 2018 20:42:22 GMT
Liberal gently wading in here to comment - hope it’s okay. I think there here are many issues where the right and the left aren’t that far apart. I feel that with Trump’s seemingly lack of compassion, wanting the wall and his prejudices towards non Caucasians are what make his comments on immigration so different. Im also a Californian so I’ll chime in about our taxes... The liberals I know are unhappy with the current financial situation in California. I’m happy to pay taxes, in fact I have no issue with high taxes. What I’d like to see is some thought put in to where the money is spent. High vehicle and gas taxes are fine with me - but how come our roads and bridges are falling apart - let us see the benefits of our taxes -where is the money going. Taxes for schools - great - but repair the schools. I hope I didn’t overstep here. I’ve been enjoying reading this thread. Just wanted to share my thoughts. I agree with this. Here's where I disagree. I don't know anything about his lack of compassion, what are you basing that on? I think the "prejudices" are manufactured by the media, pushed by opposing politicians and picked up and run with by those that want it to be so. And I know (since we're already talking about past presidents and such) at least Hillary and Obama both called for a wall themselves and no one had a problem with it when THEY did. That makes no sense other than "but Trump". How quickly we forget. Here are just a few: "Shithole countries". Throwing rolls of paper towels at Puerto Ricans who just endured a devastating hurricane, not to mention an abominable "relief effort" for these people who pay into our federal tax system. Don't get me started on DACA. I saw with my own eyes the rolls of paper towels flung, and heard "shithole countries" with my own ears so you can just cut the "blame the media" crap.
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Post by ntsf on Apr 4, 2018 20:45:25 GMT
oregon parks are nice cause they have a dedicated vehicle tax that supports them (I believe). one problem with gas taxes/road repair is that with the increase in hybrid and electric vehicles, there are more cars driving miles and not paying any or little gas tax.
hey, it only took WA state over a 100 yrs to build the north cascades highway.... our city has local commissions that monitor bond funds.. to be sure that the bond money is spent wisely and on what it was promised for.. maybe the state could add such. our schools have all been upgraded to be earthquake safe, our hospitals are being rebuilt or replaced.. and all our libraries have been remodeled to be safe.. good use of my tax money.
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Nov 24, 2024 21:50:33 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2018 21:08:44 GMT
I agree with this. Here's where I disagree. I don't know anything about his lack of compassion, what are you basing that on? I think the "prejudices" are manufactured by the media, pushed by opposing politicians and picked up and run with by those that want it to be so. And I know (since we're already talking about past presidents and such) at least Hillary and Obama both called for a wall themselves and no one had a problem with it when THEY did. That makes no sense other than "but Trump". How quickly we forget. Here are just a few: "Shithole countries". Throwing rolls of paper towels at Puerto Ricans who just endured a devastating hurricane, not to mention an abominable "relief effort" for these people who pay into our federal tax system. Don't get me started on DACA. I saw with my own eyes the rolls of paper towels flung, and heard "shithole countries" with my own ears so you can just cut the "blame the media" crap. "Shithole countries" is just another example of one president saying it and... nothing. Trump says it and certain people lose their mind. The other examples, I didn't say the media makes up what we all know happened. What I said was the outrage is manufactured. They figure out a way to be upset about whatever it is (like throwing paper towels) and then report it into the ground until certain people say oh, yeah I hadn't thought about it that way, but now that you've mentioned it 750,001 times, yeah I guess that is something to consider. Something had Obama done it, wouldn't be mentioned at all or it would have had a different spin "Obama raises spirits of those who need it most right now after the hurricane, by playfully tossing out paper towels." and it would have been a fleeting thought with everyone and then specifics lost forever to another input of wonderful feelings of Obama. And the hurricane relief had so much praise from those involved that contradicted those who had an agenda. Facts came out that contradicted so much of the complaints.
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Nov 24, 2024 21:50:33 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2018 21:14:00 GMT
"Shithole countries" is just another example of one president saying it and... nothing. Trump says it and certain people lose their mind. Who else said it? Not being snarky, just never heard of another president saying it.
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Nov 24, 2024 21:50:33 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2018 21:14:37 GMT
oregon parks are nice cause they have a dedicated vehicle tax that supports them (I believe). one problem with gas taxes/road repair is that with the increase in hybrid and electric vehicles, there are more cars driving miles and not paying any or little gas tax. hey, it only took WA state over a 100 yrs to build the north cascades highway.... our city has local commissions that monitor bond funds.. to be sure that the bond money is spent wisely and on what it was promised for.. maybe the state could add such. our schools have all been upgraded to be earthquake safe, our hospitals are being rebuilt or replaced.. and all our libraries have been remodeled to be safe.. good use of my tax money. That probably is a factor in our increase in the gas tax and the vehicle registration fees here in California--which REALLY ticks me off because we drive a 1991 car that gets 54 mpg, and we are subsidizing these hybrid and electric vehicles with our tax money, and then we get slammed by the high taxes on our gasoline. Our other car is a 1994 bigger car that gets about 25 mpg, but we only drive that one on long trips because it's a bigger car--and more comfortable for trips. Our '91 has over 250,000 miles on it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2018 21:20:42 GMT
"Shithole countries" is just another example of one president saying it and... nothing. Trump says it and certain people lose their mind. Who else said it? Not being snarky, just never heard of another president saying it. Obama called Libya a shitshow.
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Post by peano on Apr 4, 2018 21:39:08 GMT
How quickly we forget. Here are just a few: "Shithole countries". Throwing rolls of paper towels at Puerto Ricans who just endured a devastating hurricane, not to mention an abominable "relief effort" for these people who pay into our federal tax system. Don't get me started on DACA. I saw with my own eyes the rolls of paper towels flung, and heard "shithole countries" with my own ears so you can just cut the "blame the media" crap. "Shithole countries" is just another example of one president saying it and... nothing. Trump says it and certain people lose their mind. The other examples, I didn't say the media makes up what we all know happened. What I said was the outrage is manufactured. They figure out a way to be upset about whatever it is (like throwing paper towels) and then report it into the ground until certain people say oh, yeah I hadn't thought about it that way, but now that you've mentioned it 750,001 times, yeah I guess that is something to consider. Something had Obama done it, wouldn't be mentioned at all or it would have had a different spin "Obama raises spirits of those who need it most right now after the hurricane, by playfully tossing out paper towels." and it would have been a fleeting thought with everyone and then specifics lost forever to another input of wonderful feelings of Obama. And the hurricane relief had so much praise from those involved that contradicted those who had an agenda. Facts came out that contradicted so much of the complaints. 1. The outrage comes from me. I don't need the media to tell me how I feel about something. The humiliation and embarrassment that I felt for us and our country at hearing "shithole countries" was instantaneous and probably one of the worst, if not the worst moments of this interminable presidency for me. 2. I guess you and I have extremely different ideas of what constitutes "raising spirits" and "playfully". You can cook up all the feverish fantasies of President Obama's behavior you want, but in the end, it is just all your fantasy. My direct experience with President Obama's behavior when he came to Newtown after the Sandy Hook murders suggests otherwise. Say what you will about his policies, he and wife behaved with a decency and decorum that didn't shame our country. 3. I guess somehow you missed news like this link about Puerto Rican hurricane "relief".
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Post by Clair on Apr 4, 2018 21:39:58 GMT
Who else said it? Not being snarky, just never heard of another president saying it. Obama called Libya a shitshow. Obama critized David Cameron for letting Libya turn into a shit show regarding violence there. Trump called the countries shitholes. Two completely different meanings.
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Post by peano on Apr 4, 2018 21:41:28 GMT
Who else said it? Not being snarky, just never heard of another president saying it. Obama called Libya a shitshow. Nice try, but nope. Completely different context. link
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