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Post by Delta Dawn on Feb 15, 2018 0:24:47 GMT
If the shooter had mental health issues and he didn’t have money to pay for treatment not to mention the will to get treatment (not that it would have done any good now anyway) how do you get someone help? Where is this anger coming from in young people? Enough to want to shoot up a school and *act* on it. Does all judgment go out the window?
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Feb 15, 2018 0:25:03 GMT
Stricter gun control is NOT going to stop illegally obtained guns. I'll be interested to learn HOW this former kid got into the school when they were given warnings to not let him on school grounds again. How did he get in?? He apparently pulled the fire alarm. How do we know it won't though, when no one has taken a real crack at actually trying it? Its worked in other countries that tried it after mass shootings. The staggering and willful impotence by those elected that have the power to do something about it, after each and every single of one these is what angers me the most about them.
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scrappinmama
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,128
Member is Online
Jun 26, 2014 12:54:09 GMT
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Post by scrappinmama on Feb 15, 2018 0:26:24 GMT
17 families are getting calls right now, if they haven't already been notified. SEVENTEEN! Most of those victims were kids. The remaining victims were probably staff who pour their hearts and souls in to their jobs. This is beyond heart-breaking. Here is why thoughts and prayers mean nothing. I'm strong in my faith. I pray. But I also know that God counts on us to make this world a better place. We aren't puppets that bend to his will. We all have free will to do what is right, and some choose that free will to do wrong. It's up to us to make this world a better place. So no, I will not be just giving thoughts and prayers. I will be taking action. There are organizations out there fighting for gun control. This is one of them. everytown.org/ and another www.bradycampaign.org/. And vote for people who do not serve the interests of the NRA.
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Post by peano on Feb 15, 2018 0:28:26 GMT
What I would prefer is for the white house to make a statement something along the lines of "enough is enough...we've got to do something about the gun control in this country"
Then offer thoughts and prayers...I'd bet anything that all the victims old and new will be forever grateful knowing their child's death was not in vain.
My news coverage must be behind because I didn't realize that information had been released that this was something that would have been prevented by any sort of reasonable gun control - that this was a weapon that would have been one that is banned. The only thing I heard was that he also looked up or was in a chat room about building a bomb, which I'm sure is already illegal. Really? You are choosing to be snarky at a time like this? You are right. We don't know any details about this latest school shooting in a steady stream of school shootings which will be followed by a gazillion more school shootings because of this country's FUCKING love affair with guns. Yes we have gun laws on the books which sometimes are successful, many times not. We also have people in Washington who say, "It's a mental health problem." Who then overturn legislation aimed at keeping the mentally ill on SSD from obtaining guns. If we have gun laws on the books, and more and more and more and more of this country's children keep getting blown away at a place where they should be safe, then what's the next normal thing to say? It is not, "I didn't realize that information had been released that this was something that would have been prevented by any sort of reasonable gun control." That answer is wrong. That answer lacks basic human compassion. That answer is essentially saying "We as Americans love and care more about guns (inanimate objects!) than people." The thing is, I don't think you think that--I think it's a knee-jerk reaction and a deflection against the enormous pain of realizing that yet again, parents sent their children off to school today and they are not coming home again. Instead of distancing yourself from that image, try to imagine yourself in a similar scenario a few years ago with your own daughter, when you yourself were sending her off to school, secure in the knowledge that she would be returning to you in the afternoon. It's easy to throw out the time-honored 2nd amendment platitudes: guns don't kill people, people kill people, thoughts and prayers, yadda yadda yadda. It's a lazy way for people to stay in their heads and not have to confront reality. Because to confront reality would mean that we as a country need to feel uncomfortable in order to do what needs to be done to combat this problem.
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Post by mamakoala on Feb 15, 2018 0:41:02 GMT
As someone who lives outside of the US, I just can't fathom how these shootings are just another day in the life of your country and nobody is doing anything to stop it. What will it take for someone to have the balls to stand up and make changes? Tiny children in Sandy Hook wasn't able to, 17 high schoolers probably won't either. The "good people with guns" thing is just unfathomable here. Seriously, it is just so fucked that I can't evenThr get my head around it. The reason is that the fucking NRA controls the dialogue on guns, and they donate fuckloads of money to asshole politicians who do their bidding. THey donated something like 30 million dollars to trump's campaign, and millions more to smaller races around the country (our congressman got $75,000). No politician can deny being influenced by the NRA if they accept thousands or millions of dollars. It's disgusting. Fuck the NRA.
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IAmUnoriginal
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,894
Jun 25, 2014 23:27:45 GMT
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Post by IAmUnoriginal on Feb 15, 2018 0:43:39 GMT
My heart hurts. Another shooting. More lives gone or changed forever. I pray we decide that enough is enough and think that the time to start has long passed. We don't yet know all the details, but that does't mean we wait to take action for common sense measures. I volunteer with Moms Demand Action. You can find a local group if you'd like to get involved: Moms Demand ActionThank you for the link, we will make a donation today. Today marks 10 years since the shootings at NIU. My kids were students there at the time. 10 years and nothing has changed. 10 years and we still remember. Forward. Together. Forward. A decade later, NIU shooting survivors try to reclaim normalcyI didn’t realize that was already 10 years ago. The mother of one of the victims worked in the same insurance agency as me. We were at a meeting together that morning. Her daughter was such a neat girl. Hours later, her whole world crumbled. Time to reach out and let her know I haven’t forgotten her beautiful girl. I sure her heart is in a million pieces tonight for too many reasons. Dammit this needs to stop. It’s time to evolve. The 2nd amendment dates back to 1791. Our founding fathers did not intend it to allow these shootings to keep happening. Enough is enough.
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,036
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Feb 15, 2018 0:46:19 GMT
As the peas know, there was an attack at my kids' school several years ago and while no one was killed, many were grievously injured. It's been in the news a lot over the last couple weeks because he was finally sentenced last week. I don't think I have PTSD exactly but it's so strange the random and not so random things which make that sense of terror and confusion come back. It's been pretty ever present the last few weeks. Then something like this happens. There aren't enough words in the English language to express how offensive and profane and blasphemous I find the phrase "thoughts and prayers" coming from the very individuals who could do something (anything?) about this and choose to do nothing. Except accept campaign donations and endorsements from the NRA.
Anyway, my generalized sense of anxiety and despair this week has given way to abject horror tonight. I feel that what is broken in our country is irreparable.
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Post by Delta Dawn on Feb 15, 2018 0:54:08 GMT
As the peas know, there was an attack at my kids' school several years ago and while no one was killed, many were grievously injured. It's been in the news a lot over the last couple weeks because he was finally sentenced last week. I don't think I have PTSD exactly but it's so strange the random and not so random things which make that sense of terror and confusion come back. It's been pretty ever present the last few weeks. Then something like this happens. There aren't enough words in the English language to express how offensive and profane and blasphemous I find the phrase "thoughts and prayers" coming from the very individuals who could do something (anything?) about this and choose to do nothing. Except accept campaign donations and endorsements from the NRA. Anyway, my generalized sense of anxiety and despair this week has given way to abject horror tonight. I feel that what is broken in our country is irreparable. It is damaged but have hope your people can repair it. It has to start from the top but don’t give up home. Your children and your children’s new you to keep fighting for them.
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Feb 15, 2018 0:54:16 GMT
As someone who lives outside of the US, I just can't fathom how these shootings are just another day in the life of your country and nobody is doing anything to stop it. What will it take for someone to have the balls to stand up and make changes? Tiny children in Sandy Hook wasn't able to, 17 high schoolers probably won't either. The "good people with guns" thing is just unfathomable here. Seriously, it is just so fucked that I can't even get my head around it. Because the NRA is 100 times more powerful than the sporting shooters association. And they basically lack enough politicians with the fortitude John Howard had over this issue. Like him or not, that man went to the mattresses on that issue after Port Arthur.
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Post by whipea on Feb 15, 2018 0:54:27 GMT
This is local for me and I used to take the senior portraits at Douglas.
To me, this is more than guns, mental health or politics. This behavior is symptomatic of our seriously impaired society. How do we reboot and start valuing life again?
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 27, 2024 0:44:00 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 0:57:08 GMT
Did any of you see the video on CNN of the classroom footage? My God.....I don’t even know what to say.
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Post by Delta Dawn on Feb 15, 2018 0:58:39 GMT
As someone who lives outside of the US, I just can't fathom how these shootings are just another day in the life of your country and nobody is doing anything to stop it. What will it take for someone to have the balls to stand up and make changes? Tiny children in Sandy Hook wasn't able to, 17 high schoolers probably won't either. The "good people with guns" thing is just unfathomable here. Seriously, it is just so fucked that I can't evenThr get my head around it. The reason is that the fucking NRA controls the dialogue on guns, and they donate fuckloads of money to asshole politicians who do their bidding. THey donated something like 30 million dollars to trump's campaign, and millions more to smaller races around the country (our congressman got $75,000). No politician can deny being influenced by the NRA if they accept thousands or millions of dollars. It's disgusting. Fuck the NRA. The NRA is more terrorizing than ISIS could ever be yet they are legal and they recruit members on TV. I have seen the angry commercials for the NRA. There are actors I loved seeing their movies and now I see them as supporters of this kind of terrorism. It has to stop. It’s just a matter of time before someone up here does something bad after witnessing what goes on there.
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,036
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Feb 15, 2018 0:59:27 GMT
The NRA will fund raise on this. Tomorrow, this weekend, next week. Just wait for it.
As far as I'm concerned, they are a terrorist organization and they should be systematically dismantled by federal law enforcement.
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valincal
Drama Llama
Southern Alberta
Posts: 5,805
Jun 27, 2014 2:21:22 GMT
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Post by valincal on Feb 15, 2018 1:01:41 GMT
Did any of you see the video on CNN of the classroom footage? My God.....I don’t even know what to say. US media are fucking brutal and so sensationalistic. I won’t watch it.
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Post by utpea on Feb 15, 2018 1:02:23 GMT
Did any of you see the video on CNN of the classroom footage? My God.....I don’t even know what to say. It is horrific.
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Post by mamakoala on Feb 15, 2018 1:02:56 GMT
The NRA will fund raise on this. Tomorrow, this weekend, next week. Just wait for it. As far as I'm concerned, they are a terrorist organization and they should be systematically dismantled by federal law enforcement. I agree one billion zillion percent. I hate those fucking assholes more than Trump. Which is saying a lot.
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Feb 15, 2018 1:05:28 GMT
The NRA will fund raise on this. Tomorrow, this weekend, next week. Just wait for it. As far as I'm concerned, they are a terrorist organization and they should be systematically dismantled by federal law enforcement. I agree. Its frightening how much power they have.
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Post by peano on Feb 15, 2018 1:08:52 GMT
As the peas know, there was an attack at my kids' school several years ago and while no one was killed, many were grievously injured. It's been in the news a lot over the last couple weeks because he was finally sentenced last week. I don't think I have PTSD exactly but it's so strange the random and not so random things which make that sense of terror and confusion come back. It's been pretty ever present the last few weeks. Then something like this happens. There aren't enough words in the English language to express how offensive and profane and blasphemous I find the phrase "thoughts and prayers" coming from the very individuals who could do something (anything?) about this and choose to do nothing. Except accept campaign donations and endorsements from the NRA. Anyway, my generalized sense of anxiety and despair this week has given way to abject horror tonight. I feel that what is broken in our country is irreparable. Sarah, I don't think it would be a stretch to think you have PTSD as do many of us who have been through this experience in our towns. Especially because nothing is being done and it keeps happening and our superintendent has just sent out another email to parents which stirs up the awful feelings all over again: Dear Newtown Staff and Families,
It is with a heavy heart I write this message this evening. As you are now aware, another school shooting occurred today in Broward County, Florida at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School. These scenes have now become all too familiar, forever impacting the lives of families and communities.
I know for so many here in Newtown – staff, students, families, community members and leaders – tragedies like these continue to resonate in ways that others might not be able to imagine or comprehend in quite the same way. And we pray they never do.
I plan on reaching out to the Superintendent of Broward County Schools, Robert Runcie, to offer our support and any additional help he may need. In addition, I have already been contacted by staff and residents to ask what we can do as a district. In the days ahead, I will be working with groups to discuss possible additional actions we can take to convey our condolences and show our support from one district to another.
We will also ask our own building staff to be vigilante within our schools to speak to anyone who may need to talk. This news is most difficult for the Newtown community, and we need to take care of each other and our students.The year is young, but I could paper a fucking wall with these emails from the superintendent after mass shootings that I've been getting since Sandy Hook. I wish I could say something helpful to ease your anxiety and despair, but I'm right there with you.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Feb 15, 2018 1:09:50 GMT
Did any of you see the video on CNN of the classroom footage? My God.....I don’t even know what to say. I had just said that should be played over and over again... Listen, watch and see what happens to the kids in the class room! Yes it is horrific, but people NEED to see what happens to those kids, and tell me it is ok for them to go through that!
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edie3
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,686
Jun 26, 2014 1:03:18 GMT
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Post by edie3 on Feb 15, 2018 1:12:53 GMT
As someone who works in mental health in schools, it is NOT that easy. I can’t tell you how many kids teachers tell me they think “will shoot up the school one day.” It’s not as simple as what people think; and hindsight is amazing in these situations I’ve noticed. Spot on. 🙄 I’ve been saying for years when people take my job, social workers, and guidance counselors more seriously we will never prevent all school shootings but damnit, we sure can prevent one...but we are drowning in academics and unable to even touch mental health needs until something like this happens. I’ve been saying for years when people take my job, social workers, and guidance counselors more seriously we will never prevent all school shootings but damnit, we sure can prevent one...but we are drowning in academics and unable to even touch mental health needs until something like this happens. this is so sad. And not right.
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,036
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Feb 15, 2018 1:15:24 GMT
Your post brought tears to my eyes. What we went through was nothing like what you went through. And yet we're in this weird club together. I think everyone probably thinks they understand what it feels like but. But.
For me, a big trigger is the sound of helicopters. One after another after another after another.
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Post by Clair on Feb 15, 2018 1:15:46 GMT
Did any of you see the video on CNN of the classroom footage? My God.....I don’t even know what to say. US media are fucking brutal and so sensationalistic. I won’t watch it. It was one of the most horrifying things I’ve seen. The horror of it all - the gun fire and screams of kids almost made me physically sick.
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Post by Clair on Feb 15, 2018 1:19:45 GMT
Did any of you see the video on CNN of the classroom footage? My God.....I don’t even know what to say. I had just said that should be played over and over again... Listen, watch and see what happens to the kids in the class room! Yes it is horrific, but people NEED to see what happens to those kids, and tell me it is ok for them to go through that! I have mixed feelings on it being shown. Not every sees sees it as we do. Others may see it as a need for armed teachers or a right to carry at school.
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Post by Really Red on Feb 15, 2018 1:21:14 GMT
My news coverage must be behind because I didn't realize that information had been released that this was something that would have been prevented by any sort of reasonable gun control - that this was a weapon that would have been one that is banned. The only thing I heard was that he also looked up or was in a chat room about building a bomb, which I'm sure is already illegal. Really? You are choosing to be snarky at a time like this? You are right. We don't know any details about this latest school shooting in a steady stream of school shootings which will be followed by a gazillion more school shootings because of this country's FUCKING love affair with guns. Yes we have gun laws on the books which sometimes are successful, many times not. We also have people in Washington who say, "It's a mental health problem." Who then overturn legislation aimed at keeping the mentally ill on SSD from obtaining guns. If we have gun laws on the books, and more and more and more and more of this country's children keep getting blown away at a place where they should be safe, then what's the next normal thing to say? It is not, "I didn't realize that information had been released that this was something that would have been prevented by any sort of reasonable gun control." That answer is wrong. That answer lacks basic human compassion. That answer is essentially saying "We as Americans love and care more about guns (inanimate objects!) than people." The thing is, I don't think you think that--I think it's a knee-jerk reaction and a deflection against the enormous pain of realizing that yet again, parents sent their children off to school today and they are not coming home again. Instead of distancing yourself from that image, try to imagine yourself in a similar scenario a few years ago with your own daughter, when you yourself were sending her off to school, secure in the knowledge that she would be returning to you in the afternoon. It's easy to throw out the time-honored 2nd amendment platitudes: guns don't kill people, people kill people, thoughts and prayers, yadda yadda yadda. It's a lazy way for people to stay in their heads and not have to confront reality. Because to confront reality would mean that we as a country need to feel uncomfortable in order to do what needs to be done to combat this problem. Yes. The facts are very simple in this case. A teenager walked in the school and murdered at least 17 people and injured dozens more. The fact is have access to guns that normally are used in battle.
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pudgygroundhog
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,648
Location: The Grand Canyon
Jun 25, 2014 20:18:39 GMT
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Post by pudgygroundhog on Feb 15, 2018 1:23:09 GMT
Here's my main issue - we aren't even allowed to talk about guns and policies because the minute somebody utters the word "gun", the NRA shuts it down. The CDC isn't even allowed to study the issue. Can you imagine anything else that kills close to 35k people a year and we can't research it and study it and try to do better? And the problem is multifaceted - a huge chunk of the deaths are suicide, likely by law abiding citizens who purchased their guns legally. Further gun control in those situations likely won't help - but maybe better mental health screening and access to healthcare could help. What are the factors that contribute to kids having access to guns? Would a big push on a campaign about better storage of guns to reduce access to kids help? Maybe there situations where better regulation could help. But how do we even learn if we can't even talk about it?
And I'm tired of the attitude that "bad guys will always get guns, so let's just not even try". Where else do we even apply that same logic? "Illegal immigrants will always get in, so let's just open our borders" said no one ever. How do the guns get into their hands? I would be very interested in better understanding that. Are people selling guns they shouldn't be? Is it theft? Smuggling? I doubt manufacturers are selling directly to people who shouldn't have guns, so let's try to understand how legal guns become illegal ones and how we can change that.
And none of this means somebody is coming for your guns. I just don't get the obsession and excessive gun culture.
I listened to a story last week about a hard core right wing conservative that introduced a bill in Louisiana that would ban toy guns from schools and impose fines/penalties if somebody brings a toy gun to school. Why? The police chief had an incident at a school where a "toy" gun was found that took him a full five minutes to realize it was fake - that's how accurate some of these toy guns are. His concern was a police officer shooting a kid or person with one of these guns because by look they wouldn't be able to discern if a gun was real or not. I think they said 115 people are shot each year because an officer thinks a toy gun is a real gun. Anyway - most people thought this seemed like pretty common sense legislation and it was basically political suicide for the legislator because the NRA and other shooting groups thought this would somehow make it easier for somebody to come take away their real guns. Really? It seemed like such an overreaction.
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Post by donna on Feb 15, 2018 1:35:44 GMT
ginacivey as a former high school teacher I can tell you that speaking up about concerns often does no good. About 12 years ago I had a boy in my 9th grade class who got mad and made a threat of shooting up the school. It was reported and we were basically blown off. I actually went into his permanent record and saw that he had made threats in middle school as well. At most he would be suspended for a day or two. We had a conference with his parents in a classroom during our team planning period. The parents very quickly got upset with us and started yelling and cussing. They were so loud that a football coach next door came to see if we needed help. Thankfully, the admin that was present for the meeting ended it because of the parents behavior. It did let us see why the kid was the way he was. I graduated high school in 1983 from a rural high school. It was not uncommon at that time for boys to show up at school with their hunting guns in the gun rack of their pick-up truck because they were hunting either before or after school. All boys carried pocket knives as well. There would be occasional fist fights at school, but no one ever shot up the school or stabbed someone. What has changed? What is causing these young people to think this is okay?
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Feb 15, 2018 1:42:52 GMT
What I would prefer is for the white house to make a statement something along the lines of "enough is enough...we've got to do something about the gun control in this country"
Then offer thoughts and prayers...I'd bet anything that all the victims old and new will be forever grateful knowing their child's death was not in vain.
Exactly. When a brown person commits a crime, Trump is right there demanding legislative solutions. When a white kid shoots up a school again, it’s “thoughts and prayers.” It’s insulting. Ditto. The WH handing out “thoughts and prayers” rings so hollow and empty.
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Post by rebelyelle on Feb 15, 2018 1:44:53 GMT
What has changed? What is causing these young people to think this is okay? Because it was done once (Columbine) and then nobody did a damn thing about it. Not a single, freaking thing. Usually mass killers commit suicide, and if they survive, they aren't afraid of going to jail. There are no societal consequences to prevent acts of gun terror. On the flip side, we love guns. We celebrate them. It's disgusting.
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Post by peano on Feb 15, 2018 1:55:51 GMT
Your post brought tears to my eyes. What we went through was nothing like what you went through. And yet we're in this weird club together. I think everyone probably thinks they understand what it feels like but. But. For me, a big trigger is the sound of helicopters. One after another after another after another. Oh Sarah, I’m so sorry. I don’t think you can draw comparisons on these experiences. It’s such a shock to the system complicated by your own personal history, and people have to process the experience in their own time. Please give credence to your feelings. They are valid. For me, it’s driving past the firehouse where parents gathered after the murders. And, of course, each subsequent mass shooting.
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Feb 15, 2018 2:04:36 GMT
Stricter gun control is NOT going to stop illegally obtained guns. I'll be interested to learn HOW this former kid got into the school when they were given warnings to not let him on school grounds again. How did he get in?? He apparently pulled the fire alarm. How about we try stricter gun control laws before we jump to this conclusion? I am so sick of people saying what won't work, when we have tried NOTHING. Our children are dying at SCHOOL. When do we as humans get so outraged tht awe do somthing??
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