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Post by mamakoala on Feb 15, 2018 2:32:15 GMT
the stupid argument that 'stricter gun control laws' won't work is just that--stupid. Do we say "People won't wear seat belts so why make wearing them a law?" or "people will drive cars anyway so why make them get licenses?" or "men will hit their wives so let's normalize domestic abuse?" or "children hate school so why make them go?" or "corporations will always try to make money so why regulate pesticide usage?" or "teens want to use alcohol so why not just let them?"
It's a fucking ridiculous, stupid, inane argument. You could say "cars don't kill people, people do" but that doesn't mean you don't have speed limits, stop signs, licensing requirements, and a mandatory one year permit period.
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Post by #notLauren on Feb 15, 2018 2:38:21 GMT
Stricter gun control is NOT going to stop illegally obtained guns. I'll be interested to learn HOW this former kid got into the school when they were given warnings to not let him on school grounds again. How did he get in?? He apparently pulled the fire alarm. How do we know it won't though, when no one has taken a real crack at actually trying it? Its worked in other countries that tried it after mass shootings. The staggering and willful impotence by those elected that have the power to do something about it, after each and every single of one these is what angers me the most about them. Has strict drug laws stopped the illegally drugs being sold and use in this country? No. What it's done is created even stronger and more vicious cartels. |
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Post by #notLauren on Feb 15, 2018 2:39:18 GMT
the stupid argument that 'stricter gun control laws' won't work is just that--stupid. Do we say "People won't wear seat belts so why make wearing them a law?" or "people will drive cars anyway so why make them get licenses?" or "men will hit their wives so let's normalize domestic abuse?" or "children hate school so why make them go?" or "corporations will always try to make money so why regulate pesticide usage?" or "teens want to use alcohol so why not just let them?" It's a fucking ridiculous, stupid, inane argument. You could say "cars don't kill people, people do" but that doesn't mean you don't have speed limits, stop signs, licensing requirements, and a mandatory one year permit period. Driving is a privilege; the right to bear arms is a Constitutional guarantee. Right there is the difference in the ability to regulate and the extent of regulation. |
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Feb 15, 2018 2:43:41 GMT
the stupid argument that 'stricter gun control laws' won't work is just that--stupid. Do we say "People won't wear seat belts so why make wearing them a law?" or "people will drive cars anyway so why make them get licenses?" or "men will hit their wives so let's normalize domestic abuse?" or "children hate school so why make them go?" or "corporations will always try to make money so why regulate pesticide usage?" or "teens want to use alcohol so why not just let them?" It's a fucking ridiculous, stupid, inane argument. You could say "cars don't kill people, people do" but that doesn't mean you don't have speed limits, stop signs, licensing requirements, and a mandatory one year permit period. Driving is a privilege; the right to bear arms is a Constitutional guarantee. Right there is the difference in the ability to regulate and the extent of regulation. It's time we put the lives of children above the rights of fucking gun owners. time to change the constitution so that people without a shred of human decency have to stop hiding behind it. I am fucking pissed off. At the people who keep defending gun ownership over the right for children to go to school without being killed. If you think that this argument is okay. Your priorities are seriously fucked up. |
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by AnotherPea on Feb 15, 2018 2:44:58 GMT
i heard someone, on a news report this evening, mention 'connecting the dots' people had said 'if anyone would shoot up a school...it's that kid' we also need more 'see something, say something' people don't like to speak up and voice concern we should start being more proactive about things that concern us - whether we are obligated or not Sometimes people do speak up and voice concern. But our laws make it so nothing can be done about it. This kid was expelled from school. It takes an act of Congress to get expelled. If he had an IEP or 504 it probably took two acts of Congress. We train our students to push the limits with very little consequences. When they do get consequences they will either push back harder, seeing if the limit is really there or lose their $hit and react explosively. I can name 20+ students that are capable of doing this at my school. Current or former students. What does my speaking up do? Can we kick them out? Ok, then what? This shooter was kicked out and it didn't stop him. Notify the law? What then? What can the cops do before a crime is committed? |
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Post by #notLauren on Feb 15, 2018 2:45:25 GMT
You are clueless about my position on the issue of gun control.
I'm merely pointing out the fallacy of her attempts to equate gun control with regulations about the operation of motor vehicles.
My priorities are just fine and I'm comfortable with them; thank you very much.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 2:46:25 GMT
Did any of you see the video on CNN of the classroom footage? My God.....I don’t even know what to say. US media are fucking brutal and so sensationalistic. I won’t watch it. I just saw a video shot by one of the kids. You could hear multiple gun shots, a pause and then a couple more shots than a pause all the while sounding louder/closer to where the kids were hiding. I can understand you not wanting to see that, too bad those kids didn’t have a choice and had to live it. Personally I think everyone in this country should see one of these videos, especially the ones where you actually hear the gun fire coming closer to where kids are hiding. Maybe seeing and hearing these events will spur this country to actually do something instead giving useless lip service. By the way these videos would only be “fucking brutal” if the videos actually showed the kids being shot. Thankfully they didn’t. |
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PLurker
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Post by PLurker on Feb 15, 2018 2:46:53 GMT
Stricter gun control is NOT going to stop illegally obtained guns. I'll be interested to learn HOW this former kid got into the school when they were given warnings to not let him on school grounds again. How did he get in?? He apparently pulled the fire alarm. How about we try stricter gun control laws before we jump to this conclusion?  I am so sick of people saying what won't work, when we have tried NOTHING. Our children are dying at SCHOOL. When do we as humans get so outraged tht awe do somthing?? Maybe, probably there are multiple causes at fault. There are many variables. But saying "Stricter gun control is NOT going to stop illegally obtained guns." fails to address an obvious one. Without trying, changing that one variable, what is the proof that it will not work? (damn science analogy) It may not stop all illegal obtained guns but some. If it makes it harder for some messed up kid who then doesn't follow through because of that hurdle, that's one. If it stops another who can't make that hurdle that was just made a little higher/harder that's two. or we can do nothing. That's zero. I say we damn well better start this experiment soon and find the offending variable(s) and fix this mess we are in. Killing children while they are in what should be a safe place of learning and then doing nothing is unfathomable to me. |
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Post by #notLauren on Feb 15, 2018 2:50:27 GMT
How about we try stricter gun control laws before we jump to this conclusion? I am so sick of people saying what won't work, when we have tried NOTHING. Our children are dying at SCHOOL. The same could be said about a Wall. We don't know it won't work and there are people who have died because of the actions of illegal immigrants. It seems people only want strict legislation and enforcement of laws on the issues they believe in and the heck with strict legislation and laws if it doesn't fit their agenda. |
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Post by annabella on Feb 15, 2018 2:52:12 GMT
When I was in high school, a long long time ago, we had to walk through a metal detector to enter school and put our backpack through an x-ray machine. I did not go to some dangerous school in a bad neighborhood, I don't think there was ever a fight in my school. There's been 18 shootings in schools just this year. Is security not the norm at schools around the country after so many shootings? I thought after Columbine, what 20 years ago, or even Sandy Hook every school in every small town would install security? I understand the one in FL happened outside the school, but why are there so many others?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 3:02:21 GMT
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AnotherPea
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Post by AnotherPea on Feb 15, 2018 3:03:00 GMT
ginacivey as a former high school teacher I can tell you that speaking up about concerns often does no good. About 12 years ago I had a boy in my 9th grade class who got mad and made a threat of shooting up the school. It was reported and we were basically blown off. I actually went into his permanent record and saw that he had made threats in middle school as well. At most he would be suspended for a day or two. We had a conference with his parents in a classroom during our team planning period. The parents very quickly got upset with us and started yelling and cussing. They were so loud that a football coach next door came to see if we needed help. Thankfully, the admin that was present for the meeting ended it because of the parents behavior. It did let us see why the kid was the way he was. I graduated high school in 1983 from a rural high school. It was not uncommon at that time for boys to show up at school with their hunting guns in the gun rack of their pick-up truck because they were hunting either before or after school. All boys carried pocket knives as well. There would be occasional fist fights at school, but no one ever shot up the school or stabbed someone. What has changed? What is causing these young people to think this is okay? I think you mentioned one of the causes in your post. Parents that can see no wrong in their kids. That will defend every misbehavior to the death and even blame the school for their child's actions. I gave a quiz today. The first hard one of the semester. The grades will go into the online grade book tomorrow and I will get no fewer than 10 emails from mothers telling me the quiz was too hard based on their children's grade alone. I already got two emails from mothers concerned about the possible grade because their daughters went home and complained about the quiz. With two requests for parent conferences. FTR, the class average was 87. One student failed, one earned a D but most got an A or a B. The Bs are what usually earn me emails from parents. These parents assume that since life has come easy thus far, for their kids, it should always be easy. They work hard to make their kids' lives easy. Not manageable, but easy. Parents want either superiority or built-in excuses. When they can't allow their kids to fail at anything, the kids think they can't do any wrong or face pressure for perfectionism. Some kids turn out ok but some don't. I also think excessive screen time, normalizing violence through video games or tv, over-scheduling with no down time for free play, movement away from nuclear and extended families, refusal of parents to allow adults to have authority over their kids and making excuses instead of insisting on grit and fortitude, has made this the go-to for some many young people. |
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Post by anniefb on Feb 15, 2018 3:03:02 GMT
I saw this earlier. Just horrible.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Feb 15, 2018 3:04:25 GMT
When I was in high school, a long long time ago, we had to walk through a metal detector to enter school and put our backpack through an x-ray machine. I did not go to some dangerous school in a bad neighborhood, I don't think there was ever a fight in my school. There's been 18 shootings in schools just this year. Is security not the norm at schools around the country after so many shootings? I thought after Columbine, what 20 years ago, or even Sandy Hook every school in every small town would install security? I understand the one in FL happened outside the school, but why are there so many others? Metal detectors and x-ray machines are not the norm at any suburban school my kids have attended. Locked doors during instruction hours where you have to be buzzed through into the office is the extent of security. |
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eleezybeth
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Post by eleezybeth on Feb 15, 2018 3:08:54 GMT
The right to bear arms was not written with a semi automatic or fully automatic weapon in mind. So give all the gun control fanatics a musket and it's win win in my mind. You can "bear your arm" and I might not hear about another massacre.
How about we put funding back into our schools and our mental health institutions instead of tax breaks for private jets?
It is crap that we as a nation can find a solution. We have a solution. We know what will solve this problem. Why won't we do it? Because of a law written before the technology existed? Please. That's just a stupid, foolish argument. Legal, sure... sigh... as long as we keep pushing off the problem what's the big deal? It's just a few more dead kids right?
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PLurker
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Post by PLurker on Feb 15, 2018 3:12:24 GMT
My DS is home sick from school today. I was just going to check to make sure he was ok and wanted anything if awake. Not the way I want to find out he is awake and up to a little online browsing - he just sent me this: #notLauren I'm not even going to argue/discuss/go there with you because in my heart I don't even find the two nearly comparable. |
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Post by #notLauren on Feb 15, 2018 3:15:29 GMT
That's fine. It won't be the first time the "but that's different" comment was used by liberals.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Feb 15, 2018 3:15:58 GMT
When I was in high school, a long long time ago, we had to walk through a metal detector to enter school and put our backpack through an x-ray machine. I did not go to some dangerous school in a bad neighborhood, I don't think there was ever a fight in my school. There's been 18 shootings in schools just this year. Is security not the norm at schools around the country after so many shootings? I thought after Columbine, what 20 years ago, or even Sandy Hook every school in every small town would install security? I understand the one in FL happened outside the school, but why are there so many others? Many schools around me have made changes in the last years in regards to how people can enter the building but there aren't metal detectors. There are typically cameras by the door that you have to look into and then the secretary pushes a button to let you in. So, basically they can control who comes in but there is no telling what wants to do when they are there. I have been to one school where you had to give them your drivers license when you came in, and they made a copy of it and put your picture on a sticker to wear while you were in the building. |
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Post by Karene on Feb 15, 2018 3:18:14 GMT
I was listening to a podcast a little while ago (possibly This American Life) and they were talking to a guy who was able to manufacture his own gun with a 3D printer and get it to fire successfully. He then put the blueprints online for everyone because he felt everyone should have be able to have a gun if they want. The most important piece of the gun that he was able to make was the part that was supposed to have the serial number. The ones he made had no serial number.
This is pretty scary. It means control over weapons could be seriously compromised all over the world if people are able to just 3D print a gun! He was being charged but I can't remember what happened.
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Post by Karene on Feb 15, 2018 3:19:38 GMT
Maybe let people have their guns. Just don't let them have any ammunition. Does the Constitution say that everyone has a right to ammunition?
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Post by #notLauren on Feb 15, 2018 3:20:03 GMT
Why aren't you on the horn with your legislators? Any gun control will need to start there.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 3:20:35 GMT
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AnotherPea
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Post by AnotherPea on Feb 15, 2018 3:21:38 GMT
A lot of schools have multiple entrances. Only one of the schools I attended had a single entrance.
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Post by megop on Feb 15, 2018 3:22:46 GMT
It's all so completely sad and I have no answers as I think it's so complex that there isn't one answer but a myriad of necessary things that have to happen before this gets better. It totally dawned on me how "routine" this had become, that when the department door where I work had a key code lock installed with no internal locking mechanism, that my first thought as the department head was to contact security for a device to secure the door against an active shooter. Makes me extremely depressed, sad and concerned for all our future.
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PLurker
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Post by PLurker on Feb 15, 2018 3:24:55 GMT
That's fine. It won't be the first time the "but that's different" comment was used by liberals. I didn't know I was a "liberal" until you just told me. Thanks for the label. Glad you have me all figured out- saves me the trouble.  |
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Post by Merge on Feb 15, 2018 3:27:05 GMT
It’s amazing to me how some people get their panties in a wad over the F word but speak so callously and flippantly about the deaths of children.
By all means, let’s use proper language and lift our little fingers while politely discussing the gun lobby and those who support it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 3:29:31 GMT
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Post by #notLauren on Feb 15, 2018 3:34:42 GMT
Gun violence and issues have been a problem since the 60s. No comprehensive legislation has been enacted; not by Republicans, not by Democrats. Each party has had opportunities and neither has done much of anything that actually worked to solve the problem. In the 1960s, 50% of households had at least one gun; today 45% of households have one. So why now is there so much more mass shootings. This is something that needs to be addressed and the answer is not the wholesale panic driven mantra we hear every time an incident occurs. Something in society or our culture has changed and we need to figure out what and address it. Why are people now committing these crimes? It's a positive step that can be taken that may actually have an effect. I guarantee you that no amount of screaming about banning guns is going to amount to anything . If 50+ years of attempts have no resulted in elected officials doing this, it's not happening.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 3:38:15 GMT
What I would prefer is for the white house to make a statement something along the lines of "enough is enough...we've got to do something about the gun control in this country"
Then offer thoughts and prayers...I'd bet anything that all the victims old and new will be forever grateful knowing their child's death was not in vain.
Exactly. When a brown person commits a crime, Trump is right there demanding legislative solutions. When a white kid shoots up a school again, it’s “thoughts and prayers.” It’s insulting. What specifically are you talking about? When and what crime was committed by a "brown person" that Trump demanded legislative solutions for? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 3:38:59 GMT
Senate 1. John McCain Ariz. “Cindy & I are praying for the victims of the terrible #LasVegasShooting & their families.” $7,740,521 from the N.R.A. 2. Richard Burr N.C. “My heart is with the people of Las Vegas and their first responders today. This morning’s tragic violence has absolutely no place here in America.” $6,986,620 from the N.R.A. 3. Roy Blunt Mo. “Saddened by the tragic loss of life in #LasVegas. My thoughts are with all of the families affected by this horrific attack.” $4,551,146 from the N.R.A. 4. Thom Tillis N.C. “Susan and I send our deepest condolences and prayers to the families of the victims of this horrific and senseless tragedy in Las Vegas.” $4,418,012 from the N.R.A. 5. Cory Gardner Co. “My family and I are praying for the families of those injured and killed in Las Vegas last night.” $3,879,064 from the N.R.A. 6. Marco Rubio Fla. “I’m praying for all the victims, their families, and our first responders in the #LasVegas #MandalayBay shooting.” $3,303,355 from the N.R.A. 7. Joni Ernst Iowa “My prayers are with all of the victims in Las Vegas, and their loved ones affected by this senseless act of violence.” $3,124,273 from the N.R.A. 8. Rob Portman Ohio “Jane & I mourn the loss of innocent lives in this horrific attack in Las Vegas last night. We are praying for those taken from us, their families & all those injured in this attack.” $3,061,941 from the N.R.A. 9. Todd Young Ind. “We must offer our full support to the victims and their families as our nation mourns.” $2,896,732 from the N.R.A. 10. Bill Cassidy La. “Following closely the horrendous act of violence in Las Vegas. Our prayers are with those who were injured, killed and their families.” $2,861,047 from the N.R.A. House: 1. French Hill Ark. “Martha and I are praying for the families and victims of this senseless act of evil. […] We must continue to work together to stop this kind of terror.” $1,089,477 from the N.R.A. 2. Ken Buck Co. “I'm praying for all of those impacted by the evil events in Las Vegas last night. Our country must stand together in support of the families of the victims and the community.” $800,544 from the N.R.A. 3. David Young Iowa “My thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families and friends of the horrific and evil tragedy in Las Vegas.” $707,662 from the N.R.A. 4. Mike Simpson Idaho “Though no words can heal our hurt, and no explanation will ever feel sufficient, I pray that all involved may find comfort as we process this devastating tragedy.” $385,731 from the N.R.A. 5. Greg Gianforte Mont. No statement released. $344,630 from the N.R.A. 6. Don Young Alaska “Anne and I are praying for all those involved or impacted by this heinous act of violence.” $245,720 from the N.R.A. 7. Lloyd Smucker Pa. “Horrific act of violence in Las Vegas. Cindy and I pray for the victims, their families, and the first responders.” $221,736 from the N.R.A. 8. Bruce Poliquin Maine “My thoughts are with all those effected in the horrifying attacks in Las Vegas. The nation is with you.” $201,398 from the N.R.A. 9. Pete Sessions Tex. “My deepest sympathies are with all who were harmed by this horrific tragedy.” $158,111 from the N.R.A. 10. Barbara Comstock Va. “I am heartbroken by the mass murder that took place last night in Las Vegas and I am praying for the victims, families, and first responders.” $137,232 from the N.R.A. www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/10/04/opinion/thoughts-prayers-nra-funding-senators.html |
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