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Post by #notLauren on Oct 4, 2018 21:48:58 GMT
Why no complaints about Feinstein holding on to Ford's report for 60 or more days and only pulling it out in an attempt to delay the vote?
Had she immediately brought this forward, there would have been more than enough time to devote to an investigation. But the whole point was to use this to delay the vote and hopefully suspend it until after the mid-term elections. That wouldn't happen if she came forward with Ford's claim too soon.
She played with fire and now the Dems are burned. Of course, they won't look to the person at fault because she's from their own party. Instead, they'll play the sad old games; again.
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Post by 950nancy on Oct 4, 2018 22:19:19 GMT
Why no complaints about Feinstein holding on to Ford's report for 60 or more days and only pulling it out in an attempt to delay the vote? Had she immediately brought this forward, there would have been more than enough time to devote to an investigation. But the whole point was to use this to delay the vote and hopefully suspend it until after the mid-term elections. That wouldn't happen if she came forward with Ford's claim too soon. She played with fire and now the Dems are burned. Of course, they won't look to the person at fault because she's from their own party. Instead, they'll play the sad old games; again. She thanked Feinstein for not sharing the report. I think this has been mentioned many times. It was Dr. Ford's choice.
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Post by #notLauren on Oct 4, 2018 22:29:57 GMT
It was also Dr. Ford's choice to have her name kept out of it. But that didn't happen did it? That explanation just doesn't wash.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Oct 5, 2018 0:50:11 GMT
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imsirius
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Post by imsirius on Oct 5, 2018 12:44:44 GMT
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imsirius
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Post by imsirius on Oct 5, 2018 12:45:28 GMT
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Post by Skellinton on Oct 5, 2018 12:49:25 GMT
It was also Dr. Ford's choice to have her name kept out of it. But that didn't happen did it? That explanation just doesn't wash. Taking the accusation out of the equation, what do you say about the fact that Kavanaugh perjured himself during the hearing? Do you think he should be confirmed even though he lied under oath?
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imsirius
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Post by imsirius on Oct 5, 2018 12:49:58 GMT
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imsirius
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Post by imsirius on Oct 5, 2018 14:23:56 GMT
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by lizacreates on Oct 5, 2018 14:53:18 GMT
Cloture vote 51 YES, 49 NO. Debate now limited to 30 hrs. (Noteworthy that Murkowski voted No.) This is NOT the confirmation vote - full senate confirmation voting tomorrow.
(edited to correct name)
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Oct 5, 2018 15:35:46 GMT
This made me laugh!
headless_snowman @hockeyhoose15 1h1 hour ago More Replying to @mkraju @rhuibers1 So we might have our first Supreme Court Justice who is disbarred? Or at least has a less than stellar rating? The @gop must be so proud!
2 replies 5 retweets 15 likes Reply 2 Retweet 5 Like 15
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Oct 5, 2018 15:41:05 GMT
Cloture vote 51 YES, 49 NO. Debate now limited to 30 hrs. (Noteworthy that McCaskill voted No.) This is NOT the confirmation vote - full senate confirmation voting tomorrow. Also waiting to see what Collins has to say at 3PM...... Guessing Manchin didn't read the list of lies I sent him when I unsubscribed to his donation request emails!! Told him I would wait to see how he voted.
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by lizacreates on Oct 5, 2018 15:54:11 GMT
Cloture vote 51 YES, 49 NO. Debate now limited to 30 hrs. (Noteworthy that McCaskill Murkowski voted No.) This is NOT the confirmation vote - full senate confirmation voting tomorrow. Also waiting to see what Collins has to say at 3PM...... Guessing Manchin didn't read the list of lies I sent him when I unsubscribed to his donation request emails!! Told him I would wait to see how he voted. Collins? I think she'll be a Yes. (Btw, I corrected the name in my post - it should be Murkowski, not McCaskill.)
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Oct 5, 2018 16:11:32 GMT
Collins? I think she'll be a Yes Collins has a large group of people in Maine who want a NO....
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Post by dewryce on Oct 5, 2018 16:13:18 GMT
Also waiting to see what Collins has to say at 3PM...... Guessing Manchin didn't read the list of lies I sent him when I unsubscribed to his donation request emails!! Told him I would wait to see how he voted. Collins? I think she'll be a Yes. (Btw, I corrected the name in my post - it should be Murkowski, not McCaskill.) Yes, isn't she the one that (lied to herself and everyone else) and said she thought the FBI investigation was "very thorough?"
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lizacreates
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Post by lizacreates on Oct 5, 2018 16:30:15 GMT
Collins? I think she'll be a Yes. (Btw, I corrected the name in my post - it should be Murkowski, not McCaskill.) Yes, isn't she the one that (lied to herself and everyone else) and said she thought the FBI investigation was "very thorough?" Yes. I think it's over. It's time to move on. We just keep at it on other challenges, especially Nov. Arizona SenatorJeff Flake just told reporters that barring a big change, he will be a yes vote on Kavanaugh’s confirmation tomorrow.
Flake and Alaska Senator Lisa Murkowski have now both confirmed that their cloture votes today- Flake yes, Murkowski no- will be their confirmation votes tomorrow.
That means Kavanaugh’s confirmation will come down to Susan Collins and Joe Manchin, who both voted yes for cloture this morning. Either one voting yes for confirmation will secure Kavanaugh’s place on the court.
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Post by thundergal on Oct 5, 2018 17:46:24 GMT
I think so too, @lizcreates. We move on the the next fight.
This has been such a disheartening few weeks.
Ignoring all the reasons presented as to why Kavanaugh is not a good choice for our Supreme Court, Collins certainly can't call herself a pro-choice proponent if she follows through with a "yes" vote.
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
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Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Oct 5, 2018 18:46:14 GMT
I think so too, @lizcreates. We move on the the next fight. This has been such a disheartening few weeks. Ignoring all the reasons presented as to why Kavanaugh is not a good choice for our Supreme Court, Collins certainly can't call herself a pro-choice proponent if she follows through with a "yes" vote. One thing for sure is that I cannot fault any of the Dem senators, especially those in the judiciary committee. They gave it their all and more, and that's good enough for me. I'm, of course, devastated by the outcome but that's the way it works - sometimes we win, sometimes we lose, eh? My mama used to tell me when I was young, "When you're walking through hell, you just keep on walking." (That was her take on Winston Churchill's quote, lol.)
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Post by dewryce on Oct 5, 2018 19:39:45 GMT
I think so too, @lizcreates. We move on the the next fight. This has been such a disheartening few weeks. Ignoring all the reasons presented as to why Kavanaugh is not a good choice for our Supreme Court, Collins certainly can't call herself a pro-choice proponent if she follows through with a "yes" vote. One thing for sure is that I cannot fault any of the Dem senators, especially those in the judiciary committee. They gave it their all and more, and that's good enough for me. I'm, of course, devastated by the outcome but that's the way it works - sometimes we win, sometimes we lose, eh? My mama used to tell me when I was young, "When you're walking through hell, you just keep on walking." (That was her take on Winston Churchill's quote, lol.) I appreciate what you're saying, and know we have no choice but to accept the outcome. (But do hope Dems and others keep looking into Kavanaugh's issues). And the Dems did fight the good fight, but that's not good enough for me. For me, it boils down to feeling like the Rs & WH broke the rules (of ethics if nothing else) and exposed a big hole that needs to be fixed. The FBI not investigating the accuser and accused is unfathomable.
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lindas
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by lindas on Oct 5, 2018 20:11:55 GMT
One thing for sure is that I cannot fault any of the Dem senators, especially those in the judiciary committee. They gave it their all and more, and that's good enough for me. I'm, of course, devastated by the outcome but that's the way it works - sometimes we win, sometimes we lose, eh? My mama used to tell me when I was young, "When you're walking through hell, you just keep on walking." (That was her take on Winston Churchill's quote, lol.) I appreciate what you're saying, and know we have no choice but to accept the outcome. (But do hope Dems and others keep looking into Kavanaugh's issues). And the Dems did fight the good fight, but that's not good enough for me. For me, it boils down to feeling like the Rs & WH broke the rules (of ethics if nothing else) and exposed a big hole that needs to be fixed. The FBI not investigating the accuser and accused is unfathomable. I ask this in all sincerity, what more do you think would have been gained by the FBI questioning Ford and Kavanaugh? The republicans asked the questions they wanted answers to and if the democrats didn't get all their questions answered then maybe, just maybe, they should have used their time to ask more and grandstand/campaign less.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Oct 5, 2018 20:39:33 GMT
I appreciate what you're saying, and know we have no choice but to accept the outcome. (But do hope Dems and others keep looking into Kavanaugh's issues). And the Dems did fight the good fight, but that's not good enough for me. For me, it boils down to feeling like the Rs & WH broke the rules (of ethics if nothing else) and exposed a big hole that needs to be fixed. The FBI not investigating the accuser and accused is unfathomable. I ask this in all sincerity, what more do you think would have been gained by the FBI questioning Ford and Kavanaugh? The republicans asked the questions they wanted answers to and if the democrats didn't get all their questions answered then maybe, just maybe, they should have used their time to ask more and grandstand/campaign less. I say this with all sincerity—You must not have been watching. Kavanaugh did not answer the questions Democrats asked. He also turned around and asked questions instead of answering. He dicked around wasting the Democratic Senators time. The entire clusterfuck was due to the Republicans. Grassley Graham Collins all stood up and LIED. Lied to put their guy in place. They lied on national tv. So you must not have been watching. It appears that the Republicans/conservatives are perfectly fine installing a liar to the highest court, as well as are perfectly fine having republican senators purposely and willingly lie to the American people.
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Post by thundergal on Oct 5, 2018 21:07:32 GMT
I ask this in all sincerity, what more do you think would have been gained by the FBI questioning Ford and Kavanaugh? The republicans asked the questions they wanted answers to and if the democrats didn't get all their questions answered then maybe, just maybe, they should have used their time to ask more and grandstand/campaign less. Preet Bharara said in his podcast last week that people are significantly likely to change their stories to avoid lying to the FBI. Also, Senators and their staffers are not law enforcement officials.
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Post by dewryce on Oct 5, 2018 21:13:01 GMT
I appreciate what you're saying, and know we have no choice but to accept the outcome. (But do hope Dems and others keep looking into Kavanaugh's issues). And the Dems did fight the good fight, but that's not good enough for me. For me, it boils down to feeling like the Rs & WH broke the rules (of ethics if nothing else) and exposed a big hole that needs to be fixed. The FBI not investigating the accuser and accused is unfathomable. I ask this in all sincerity, what more do you think would have been gained by the FBI questioning Ford and Kavanaugh? The republicans asked the questions they wanted answers to and if the democrats didn't get all their questions answered then maybe, just maybe, they should have used their time to ask more and grandstand/campaign less. I think that since an FBI agent is actually trained to do these investigations and Senators are not there was a possibility they could have uncovered new information or found an inconsistency. Sort of like seeing a specialist rather than only a GP when you're having a major health issue. Sure, they both give you an examination. But one went through specialized study to learn how to handle this particular problem and has frequent and recent experience in the matter at hand and the other doesn't. The specialist is going to look at the records from your GP, but they're going to go over the results with you and then ask more detailed questions based on their more extensive knowledge base and experience. If my husband was having heart problems and he went to his GP and the exam uncovered more potential problems and gave no confirmation that his heart was okay, I am not going to shrug my shoulders and say that's good enough. He's going to see a specialist and I'm going to be there with him to make sure all questions are answered and I am confident in the results. Everyone is complaining about partisan politics on both sides. Okay, another reason to let the FBI handle it. There was enough time as the week given didn't end until today. There is also the matter of the other allegations, all of the women weren't questioned by the Senate. So there was much more potential for finding new information by questioning the new accusers/witnesses. What is the phrase, 'leave no stone unturned'? Boulders. We left boulders unturned. There might not have been anything there. But we can't say with confidence either way since the attempt wasn't even made. I guess what it boils down to is that I can not think of a single valid reason the FBI questioning the key players in the investigations would have hurt anything. (Unless there are more severe consequences for lying to the FBI than during the Senate hearings, and that would hold true for both the accusers and the accused.) It could have helped at the least the appearance of legitimacy of the investigation and lent weight to the findings. Which would have only helped the GOP, not hurt them. So I have to wonder why it is they/WH didn't want them questioned. What was the benefit? So, yes, I feel very strongly that the attempt should have been made, regardless of the likelihood of new information. We should know we did our very best to uncover the whole truth. The Democrats could ask questions until they were blue in the face, he wasn't answering or was talking around many of them. And some of the answers he did give were not truthful. Kavanaugh was grandstanding and wasting time as well. Would it have gone differently if he was questioned by the FBI? We have no way of knowing now.
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lindas
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 26, 2014 5:46:37 GMT
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Post by lindas on Oct 5, 2018 21:37:24 GMT
dewryce, thanks for your non-attacking reply. I must admit I was a bit surprised when neither were questioned by the FBI and that they ended so quickly. I expected the FBI to carry it right through to at least Thursday. After the beating the FBI took over the Clinton email thing I figured they would play this one strictly by the book. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't, the only sure thing known is that they did face to face interviews with 10 people who's names came out during the hearing. Although they would be heavily redacted I would love to see the report they gave to the Senate.
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Post by megop on Oct 5, 2018 21:43:37 GMT
One thing I’m also completely curious about is just who exactly leaked Dr. Ford’s letter to the press? I hope journalists are still on that trail too.
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Just T
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Post by Just T on Oct 5, 2018 21:48:07 GMT
dewryce , thanks for your non-attacking reply. I must admit I was a bit surprised when neither were questioned by the FBI and that they ended so quickly. I expected the FBI to carry it right through to at least Thursday. After the beating the FBI took over the Clinton email thing I figured they would play this one strictly by the book. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't, the only sure thing known is that they did face to face interviews with 10 people who's names came out during the hearing. Although they would be heavily redacted I would love to see the report they gave to the Senate. And according to someone I can't remember who spoke today, there were 24 other witnesses who said they had information to offer, but they were not interviewed.
I do not blame the FBI. I think they were given explicit instructions as to who they could talk to and who they couldn't. Why else would they not talk to potential witnesses? I was hoping that I would feel better about this whole situation after the FBI investigation, but I don't. I think there is still much out there that will eventually come to light, and it will be much harder to remove him if he is appointed than it would have been for Trump to withdraw his support and choose someone else.
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Post by dewryce on Oct 5, 2018 21:54:24 GMT
dewryce , thanks for your non-attacking reply. I must admit I was a bit surprised when neither were questioned by the FBI and that they ended so quickly. I expected the FBI to carry it right through to at least Thursday. After the beating the FBI took over the Clinton email thing I figured they would play this one strictly by the book. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't, the only sure thing known is that they did face to face interviews with 10 people who's names came out during the hearing. Although they would be heavily redacted I would love to see the report they gave to the Senate. That's yet another reason I feel so strongly that full transparency was needed here (with names redacted to protect privacy when needed). No one can/will tell us exactly what the scope was, what limitations were placed on the FBI by the WH. There is no way for them (the FBI) to win here. If information is turned up by reporters that is pertinent to the investigation, I fully believe the blame will fall directly on the shoulders of the FBI, when chances are their hands were tied. The way this whole thing was handled has really damaged the faith many had in all 3 branches of government, myself included. How is that good for anyone?
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Post by birdgate on Oct 5, 2018 22:10:06 GMT
One thing for sure is that I cannot fault any of the Dem senators, especially those in the judiciary committee. They gave it their all and more, and that's good enough for me. I'm, of course, devastated by the outcome but that's the way it works - sometimes we win, sometimes we lose, eh? My mama used to tell me when I was young, "When you're walking through hell, you just keep on walking." (That was her take on Winston Churchill's quote, lol.) I appreciate what you're saying, and know we have no choice but to accept the outcome. (But do hope Dems and others keep looking into Kavanaugh's issues). And the Dems did fight the good fight, but that's not good enough for me. For me, it boils down to feeling like the Rs & WH broke the rules (of ethics if nothing else) and exposed a big hole that needs to be fixed. The FBI not investigating the accuser and accused is unfathomable. When the Democrats get power they’ll subpoena every FBI document in the investigation including Chris Wray’s memos with the WH. Hopefully he can be impeached. Why would the republicans go down this rabbit hole? Would it have killed them to have picked a woman to replace him? But I guess that can’t be done when you’re already paid for. It will bite them in the ass. Watch.
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Post by Merge on Oct 5, 2018 22:19:07 GMT
I appreciate what you're saying, and know we have no choice but to accept the outcome. (But do hope Dems and others keep looking into Kavanaugh's issues). And the Dems did fight the good fight, but that's not good enough for me. For me, it boils down to feeling like the Rs & WH broke the rules (of ethics if nothing else) and exposed a big hole that needs to be fixed. The FBI not investigating the accuser and accused is unfathomable. When the Democrats get power they’ll subpoena every FBI document in the investigation including Chris Wray’s memos with the WH. Hopefully he can be impeached. Why would the republicans go down this rabbit hole? Would it have killed them to have picked a woman to replace him? But I guess that can’t be done when you’re already paid for. It will bite them in the ass. Watch. I hope you’re right, but I’m losing confidence that Democrats will be able to make any meaningful difference while Trump is still in office.
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Post by frenchie on Oct 5, 2018 22:21:55 GMT
Amy Coney Barrett was supposedly on Trump's short list. I know that Chuck Schumer said she would be the vote that would overturn Roe vs Wade. She is apparently very religious. The idea of another female Justice sounds great, but I'm not so sure she would've been any better.
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