Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2020 21:39:33 GMT
People may feel exhausted by the recent accusations of racism and bullying coming from the Tim Holtz camp but this drama is far from over!! It is clear to me that Lara Smith from Ink Road Stamps was forced to apologise, probably following threats of legal action. I commend Lara for her courage and for trying to speak out against racism. It simply isn't enough to just not be racist, you must be anti racist and Lara encompasses that message. It's easy to write her off as crazy but she is far from. She shed a light on systemic racism and bullying from a well known brand and they used all their power to crush a small business and a single woman working alone, and people stood by and applauded this!! I have watched as the admin of the Tim Holtz Addicts group, namely Zoe Hillman, (online handle igirlzoe), have silenced Black voices and removed Black members and Black art and Tim Holtz and his team stand idly by and allow her to do this. There have been multiple calls on Tim's Facebook posts to have Zoe Hillman removed as the admin of his group and no action has been taken. There was an email leaked where Tim stated that Zoe was being removed and this has not happened. Why?
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Post by mom on Aug 6, 2020 21:45:32 GMT
You are obviously wanting to stir shit. Why dont you tell us who YOU are and WHY youre so invested in this?
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Deleted
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Nov 19, 2024 0:37:32 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2020 21:56:28 GMT
You are obviously wanting to stir shit. Why dont you tell us who YOU are and WHY youre so invested in this? I appreciate that's what it looks like but I am a crafter who has been bullied and discriminated against by members of Tim's team and I have witnessed bullying and racism within the Tim Holtz Addicts group. The first ray of hope I have seen from someone who was courageous enough to shed light on these issues has been silenced by the big boys and I want to discuss it. Is that not allowed on this forum? I came here and joined because I saw a thread posted on Facebook to this forum. Other social media outlets, groups and companies heavily moderate and silence comments in opposition of Tim Holtz and I like that this doesn't seem to be the case here. I hope that answers your question and I'm sorry if my motives seem malicious, they are not. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2020 23:00:12 GMT
🤦♀️
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Elsabelle
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by Elsabelle on Aug 6, 2020 23:08:46 GMT
Here comes papercrafteradvocate to save the day for Tim  |
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msliz
Drama Llama
The Procrastinator
Posts: 6,419
Jun 26, 2014 21:32:34 GMT
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Post by msliz on Aug 6, 2020 23:09:16 GMT
You are obviously wanting to stir shit. Why dont you tell us who YOU are and WHY youre so invested in this? I appreciate that's what it looks like but I am a crafter who has been bullied and discriminated against by members of Tim's team and I have witnessed bullying and racism within the Tim Holtz Addicts group. The first ray of hope I have seen from someone who was courageous enough to shed light on these issues has been silenced by the big boys and I want to discuss it. Is that not allowed on this forum? I came here and joined because I saw a thread posted on Facebook to this forum. Other social media outlets, groups and companies heavily moderate and silence comments in opposition of Tim Holtz and I like that this doesn't seem to be the case here. I hope that answers your question and I'm sorry if my motives seem malicious, they are not. Okay, so putting aside Lara for the moment, how did they bully and discriminate against you personally? Specifically? You have our ear. |
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Post by scrapaddict702 on Aug 6, 2020 23:29:54 GMT
Lara is a liar. Even if her argument here is valid, she is the boy that cried wolf. She isn't believable and therefore anyone trying to further push her as someone to be listened to isn't going to be believable either. If you want to push forth an argument and have evidence or personal experiences that you wish to share, okay, but throwing out vague accusations while continuing to put a known liar on a pedestal isn't going to get people to believe you...neither is hiding behind a new account.
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Deleted
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Nov 19, 2024 0:37:32 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2020 23:41:13 GMT
I appreciate that's what it looks like but I am a crafter who has been bullied and discriminated against by members of Tim's team and I have witnessed bullying and racism within the Tim Holtz Addicts group. The first ray of hope I have seen from someone who was courageous enough to shed light on these issues has been silenced by the big boys and I want to discuss it. Is that not allowed on this forum? I came here and joined because I saw a thread posted on Facebook to this forum. Other social media outlets, groups and companies heavily moderate and silence comments in opposition of Tim Holtz and I like that this doesn't seem to be the case here. I hope that answers your question and I'm sorry if my motives seem malicious, they are not. Okay, so putting aside Lara for the moment, how did they bully and discriminate against you personally? Specifically? You have our ear. Yes they did. I have had multiple posts removed without explanation. All were BLM related art journal pages using Tim Holtz products. Any member standing in opposition of the All Lives Matter brigade are being silenced in that group. I contacted Tim Holtz and Mario Rossi on numerous occasions to ask why my art was being removed and I was blocked from their social media pages. I was polite and respectful in my correspondence with them. I have remained silent about this until I saw others speaking out. In my opinion, if you allow someone on your team to be racist and do nothing, you are saying it's okay. |
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Post by QueSeraSera on Aug 6, 2020 23:42:45 GMT
Here comes papercrafteradvocate to save the day for Tim 😂😂😁 |
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Deleted
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Nov 19, 2024 0:37:32 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2020 23:46:22 GMT
Lara is a liar. Even if her argument here is valid, she is the boy that cried wolf. She isn't believable and therefore anyone trying to further push her as someone to be listened to isn't going to be believable either. If you want to push forth an argument and have evidence or personal experiences that you wish to share, okay, but throwing out vague accusations while continuing to put a known liar on a pedestal isn't going to get people to believe you...neither is hiding behind a new account. I don't know Lara personally so she may be a liar and I have not put her on a pedestal. She shed light on systemic racism that has been happening within the Tim Holtz brand. I have tried to speak out under my own account on Facebook and Instgagram and have been blocked and other Tim Holtz fan girls have come for me. My comments and posts have been shut down. I am not hiding behind a new account, it is a new account because I am new. I saw links posted to this forum and another thread about this topic on other posts on Facebook and in the Tim Holtz Addicts group, they are talking about peas. I came here to try and find others who have shared my experience and hope not to be shut down. I don't need people to believe me, I just need people to hear me and if they have had the same experience, maybe they will share it here. |
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msliz
Drama Llama
The Procrastinator
Posts: 6,419
Jun 26, 2014 21:32:34 GMT
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Post by msliz on Aug 7, 2020 0:37:12 GMT
I forgot to welcome you to the board, @buttons, so welcome.
I'm sure you'll understand that the post-Lara Peas are going to be doubting your story, not because we worship Tim and crew, but because you have no evidence that this ever happened. Not that racism never happens, but you're accusing specific people with no proof. And if you did have screenshots, we'd still doubt that too at this point (because of Lara.)
I'm thinking that the only way to prove systemic racism (there) to me (here) would be for established Peas to create BLM projects to post there, and then see what happens. I don't own TH products. Anyone want to volunteer?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2020 0:57:53 GMT
I forgot to welcome you to the board, @buttons, so welcome. I'm sure you'll understand that the post-Lara Peas are going to be doubting your story, not because we worship Tim and crew, but because you have no evidence that this ever happened. Not that racism never happens, but you're accusing specific people with no proof. And if you did have screenshots, we'd still doubt that too at this point (because of Lara.) I'm thinking that the only way to prove systemic racism (there) to me (here) would be for established Peas to create BLM projects to post there, and then see what happens. I don't own TH products. Anyone want to volunteer? Thankyou for the welcome. I knew I would be doubted but I am simply relieved to be heard and not automatically silenced or shut down. I welcome your suggestion. |
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Post by quinmm14 on Aug 7, 2020 0:58:43 GMT
I think Lara Smith did a disservice to all people if she thinks that lying the way she did was a good method for shedding light on systemic racism.
I still can't wrap my brain around how she thought that was helpful?
And because of her, unfortunately, other voices speaking out are met with skepticism.
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Deleted
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Nov 19, 2024 0:37:32 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2020 2:19:22 GMT
Are you the person who contacted Lara and asked her to speak up?
If not, what can you show us of your art that was removed from the TH Addicts group?
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FurryP
Drama Llama
To pea or not to pea...
Posts: 7,273
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2014 19:58:26 GMT
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Post by FurryP on Aug 7, 2020 2:41:33 GMT
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pancakes
Drama Llama
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Post by pancakes on Aug 7, 2020 14:17:06 GMT
Just here with my popcorn. 🍿
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Post by sleepingbooty on Aug 7, 2020 16:20:04 GMT
It's a shame the title of this thread is almost a perfect copy + paste of the previous, extremely dramatic, handslappy and fangirling thread. If you wish to denounce racist behaviour in the THA group, that ought to have been the title rather than dragging the Lara drama back in the spotlight, especially if that's not what's being actually discussed.
You're welcome to post screenshots and whatever else to support your claims, @buttons. As a new member, you have no reputation or personal relationships in here that would vouch for your integrity and trustability but the General Scrapbooking side of 2PR is known for being a skeptic, not-all-unicorns-and-petals, free speech and *usually* pretty drama-free public scrappy forum, a rare thing in this insular and heavily policed craft/industry. Welcome aboard.
Personally, I would greatly appreciate if you could link us up to the places, messages and/or discussions where the crazy TH vs Lara thread that led you back here was posted. Many thanks in advance!
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Deleted
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Nov 19, 2024 0:37:32 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2020 19:07:54 GMT
I think Lara Smith did a disservice to all people if she thinks that lying the way she did was a good method for shedding light on systemic racism. I still can't wrap my brain around how she thought that was helpful? And because of her, unfortunately, other voices speaking out are met with skepticism. I can't wrap my brain around why Lara suddenly confessed? Forced to? |
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Deleted
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Nov 19, 2024 0:37:32 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2020 19:11:52 GMT
Are you the person who contacted Lara and asked her to speak up? If not, what can you show us of your art that was removed from the TH Addicts group? I would rather not identify myself. Look what happened to Lara. It's the point I am making. |
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Deleted
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Nov 19, 2024 0:37:32 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2020 19:20:01 GMT
It's a shame the title of this thread is almost a perfect copy + paste of the previous, extremely dramatic, handslappy and fangirling thread. If you wish to denounce racist behaviour in the THA group, that ought to have been the title rather than dragging the Lara drama back in the spotlight, especially if that's not what's being actually discussed. You're welcome to post screenshots and whatever else to support your claims, @buttons . As a new member, you have no reputation or personal relationships in here that would vouch for your integrity and trustability but the General Scrapbooking side of 2PR is known for being a skeptic, not-all-unicorns-and-petals, free speech and *usually* pretty drama-free public scrappy forum, a rare thing in this insular and heavily policed craft/industry. Welcome aboard. Personally, I would greatly appreciate if you could link us up to the places, messages and/or discussions where the crazy TH vs Lara thread that led you back here was posted. Many thanks in advance! Thank you sleepingbooty, on reflection I agree with you about the title. Maybe I should not have voiced this at all. I was very hesitant to post at all. I have experienced bullying from Tim Holtz, Mario Rossi, Zoe Hillman and have witnessed racism in the Tim Holtz Addicts group which is administered by Mario Rossi and Zoe Hillman and in Tim Holtz's name. Mario is his partner so I think there is a responsibility chain there. I sincerely hope that others have not suffered as I have. This has taken a real life emotional toll on me and my mental health and I still suffer because of how I have been made to feel and I have no voice. I don't have millions of followers like they do. I saw the link posted to this page in comments on the Tim Holtz Addicts group post with links to the youtube apology. The members were discussing this forum. I can't provide a link to it because the group is closed and not public. |
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Post by quinmm14 on Aug 7, 2020 20:38:45 GMT
I think Lara Smith did a disservice to all people if she thinks that lying the way she did was a good method for shedding light on systemic racism. I still can't wrap my brain around how she thought that was helpful? And because of her, unfortunately, other voices speaking out are met with skepticism. I can't wrap my brain around why Lara suddenly confessed? Forced to? I'm not sure she was "forced" to say anything. But reasoning out why she may have recanted, I'd assume there was more evidence that she wasn't speaking the truth than evidence that she was. She may have decided that she was backed into the corner so far there was simply no other way out than to admit she lied. With no way to save face, so to speak, she may have decided it made better business sense for her to fess up. I really have no idea, that's just my supposition. And I'm more likely wrong, than right. And while I understand your reluctance to identify yourself, or share anything here, saying "look what happened to Lara" when she spoke out isn't the same thing. The sharing of verifiable factual evidence is entirely different. She lied. She had information that she knew was not true and spoke it anyway. But again, that's just my opinion. |
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Post by hop2 on Aug 7, 2020 21:04:24 GMT
I forgot to welcome you to the board, @buttons, so welcome. I'm sure you'll understand that the post-Lara Peas are going to be doubting your story, not because we worship Tim and crew, but because you have no evidence that this ever happened. Not that racism never happens, but you're accusing specific people with no proof. And if you did have screenshots, we'd still doubt that too at this point (because of Lara.) I'm thinking that the only way to prove systemic racism (there) to me (here) would be for established Peas to create BLM projects to post there, and then see what happens. I don't own TH products. Anyone want to volunteer? Trust me all of us are not Tim Worshippers. And might had had our hands slapped for not being a Tim worshipper |
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Post by hop2 on Aug 7, 2020 21:05:38 GMT
Oh, we also have a ‘gallery’ so feel free to sign up and post your art. We like that
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Post by hop2 on Aug 7, 2020 21:07:55 GMT
It's a shame the title of this thread is almost a perfect copy + paste of the previous, extremely dramatic, handslappy and fangirling thread. If you wish to denounce racist behaviour in the THA group, that ought to have been the title rather than dragging the Lara drama back in the spotlight, especially if that's not what's being actually discussed. You're welcome to post screenshots and whatever else to support your claims, @buttons. As a new member, you have no reputation or personal relationships in here that would vouch for your integrity and trustability but the General Scrapbooking side of 2PR is known for being a skeptic, not-all-unicorns-and-petals, free speech and *usually* pretty drama-free public scrappy forum, a rare thing in this insular and heavily policed craft/industry. Welcome aboard. Personally, I would greatly appreciate if you could link us up to the places, messages and/or discussions where the crazy TH vs Lara thread that led you back here was posted. Many thanks in advance! Yes I have avoided this thread because I thought it was the last one brought up again and I wasn’t up for it anymore. |
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Post by BSideCrafter on Aug 7, 2020 23:15:18 GMT
Tim's group doesn't allow political posts and BLM posts are considered political in this world climate. I can understand him removing them.
I am pro-BLM, but it's his group and he can set the rules how he likes. You can always share your art on your Instagram page or create your own Facebook group with your own rules.
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msliz
Drama Llama
The Procrastinator
Posts: 6,419
Jun 26, 2014 21:32:34 GMT
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Post by msliz on Aug 7, 2020 23:30:36 GMT
Tim's group doesn't allow political posts and BLM posts are considered political in this world climate. I can understand him removing them. I am pro-BLM, but it's his group and he can set the rules how he likes. You can always share your art on your Instagram page or create your own Facebook group with your own rules. If that's clearly stated for all to see, then I guess that's that. And if that's the case, then I consider the whole lot of them racist. Issues of race are human rights issues. It's how we as nations choose to address human rights issues (or fail to address them) that makes it political. Stating on a piece of art that a human being deserves to be treated with dignity, respect, and equality is *not* a political issue. Do they have similar banned content policies regarding pro LGBT? pro religion of choice? pro feminism? No? Then this policy makes them racist. |
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Post by BSideCrafter on Aug 7, 2020 23:36:17 GMT
I understand it's a human rights issue. The problem is that unfortunately those sorts of posts cause drama and they're trying to remain drama free. And drama posts take a lot of time to admin. As someone who has done adminning for Facebook groups it is a pain to deal with and leaves everyone unhappy and divided
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msliz
Drama Llama
The Procrastinator
Posts: 6,419
Jun 26, 2014 21:32:34 GMT
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Post by msliz on Aug 7, 2020 23:57:42 GMT
I understand it's a human rights issue. The problem is that unfortunately those sorts of posts cause drama and they're trying to remain drama free. And drama posts take a lot of time to admin. As someone who has done adminning for Facebook groups it is a pain to deal with and leaves everyone unhappy and divided Thank you BSideCrafter for posting the policy. They need to do better. They need to choose a side on this one and make a clear statement. If they allow bible journaling, Pride, or even "girl power," they should allow support for BLM. That would be a consistant application of their board policy. Celebrating and supporting LGBT rights and women's rights is no different than celebrating and supporting the rights of POC. Without amending their policy, they can choose to allow art in support of BLM and still put their collective foot down banning racist comments from their members. Correcting their implementation of this policy would go a long way in healing the damage they've done in their own community. For them to continue on their current path is a bad PR move at the very least. ETA, I'm not a member of the FB group, I'm not claiming to have been discriminated against, and I'm basing my opinion solely on the policy as stated above and word of mouth regarding how the policy has been implemented (deleting or prohibiting BLM art.) If they are not in fact prohibiting art in support of BLM, then I withdraw my criticism. Obviously TH and crew can run their FB group and their business any way they see fit. It's my opinion that they have a big problem they need to address as this issue keeps surfacing, especially in light of the recent New York Times article on Diversity in Scrapbooking. I have to wonder what a follow-up article might have to say. |
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Deleted
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Nov 19, 2024 0:37:32 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2020 3:08:27 GMT
I understand it's a human rights issue. The problem is that unfortunately those sorts of posts cause drama and they're trying to remain drama free. And drama posts take a lot of time to admin. As someone who has done adminning for Facebook groups it is a pain to deal with and leaves everyone unhappy and divided Thank you BSideCrafter for posting the policy. They need to do better. They need to choose a side on this one and make a clear statement. If they allow bible journaling, Pride, or even "girl power," they should allow support for BLM. That would be a consistant application of their board policy. Celebrating and supporting LGBT rights and women's rights is no different than celebrating and supporting the rights of POC. Without amending their policy, they can choose to allow art in support of BLM and still put their collective foot down banning racist comments from their members. Correcting their implementation of this policy would go a long way in healing the damage they've done in their own community. For them to continue on their current path is a bad PR move at the very least. ETA, I'm not a member of the FB group, I'm not claiming to have been discriminated against, and I'm basing my opinion solely on the policy as stated above and word of mouth regarding how the policy has been implemented (deleting or prohibiting BLM art.) If they are not in fact prohibiting art in support of BLM, then I withdraw my criticism. Obviously TH and crew can run their FB group and their business any way they see fit. It's my opinion that they have a big problem they need to address as this issue keeps surfacing, especially in light of the recent New York Times article on Diversity in Scrapbooking. I have to wonder what a follow-up article might have to say.  |
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msliz
Drama Llama
The Procrastinator
Posts: 6,419
Jun 26, 2014 21:32:34 GMT
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Post by msliz on Aug 8, 2020 3:38:23 GMT
... If they allow bible journaling, Pride, or even "girl power," they should allow support for BLM. That would be a consistant application of their board policy. Celebrating and supporting LGBT rights and women's rights is no different than celebrating and supporting the rights of POC. ... Its against their rules to boost those themes as well. But I'd bet dollars to donuts they've allowed them. They don't "allow" religion either, but I'm sure there are plenty of Christmas and Easter projects up. My point is that none of these are more political in nature than the other. |
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