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Post by snowsilver on Oct 22, 2020 22:08:38 GMT
So was this post just the attempt by the OP to profess that it never mattered what her cult leader did in relation to COVID? Pink Lady, I usually just ignore your posts. They are always mean spirited and ugly (at least to conservatives). Just yesterday, I think it was, Kristin was wondering where all the conservatives are and why they don't post their feelings about things. I started to answer her, but as I almost always do these days, I just shrugged it off. Of course we have ideas, and of course we would love to have a chance to debate them here. But it just isn't worth it at all. We can always count on YOU (and a couple others) coming back and making it ugly and making it personal. WHY DO YOU DO THAT?? Does it make you feel superior or something? This post had nothing to do with Trump. It was simply a commentary about a rather sobering article a university professor just made to my timeline. I thought it worthy of discussion. I've learned my lesson about politics. I just don't "go there" on this board anymore. Even though political discussions are my lifeblood. Certainly, we don't all agree on everything. But we don't have to make it nasty or personal.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Oct 22, 2020 22:14:19 GMT
Has anyone seen a country mortality rate adjusted for age of population? I'm going to do some looking, but age is such a huge risk factor, you really need to adjust country's numbers for not just per capita, but also relative age. There was an article in Technology Review a few weeks ago that looked at a city in South America that did nothing and they now estimate a huge portion - I want to say 40% of the population contracted COVID, their mortality rate is actually not that bad, many countries have much much higher rates with way more restrictions, but the city was greatly helped by a very relatively young population.
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Post by SockMonkey on Oct 22, 2020 22:16:49 GMT
And just because it’s not against “the rules” doesn’t mean it’s safe and responsible. We have a different assessment of the risks and that’s ok. I have to weigh our mental health against our Covid risk and make the decision that’s right for my family. Don’t particularly care what anyone else thinks of that. And people like you are the reason we're in this shitshow.
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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on Oct 22, 2020 22:17:02 GMT
But authorities are very concerned still that despite all the best efforts to contain the spread, it simply cannot be stopped. The government’s experts insist that the rate of contagion among schoolchildren is not the driving factor; but young people who feel confident they won’t get very sick and insist on gathering socially may be It's stoppable if people are willing to make sacrifices. I agree. But staying home isn't an option for those who depend on the income of going to work. Until the government subsidizes its citizens so they don't have to go out to work, the people who do go to work will shrug their shoulders with a "why bother" attitude about abstaining from gathering with others recreationally, reasoning that if it's okay to go to work, it's just as okay to go out with friends.
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pinklady
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,922
Nov 14, 2016 23:47:03 GMT
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Post by pinklady on Oct 22, 2020 22:19:14 GMT
So was this post just the attempt by the OP to profess that it never mattered what her cult leader did in relation to COVID? Pink Lady, I usually just ignore your posts. They are always mean spirited and ugly (at least to conservatives). Just yesterday, I think it was, Kristin was wondering where all the conservatives are and why they don't post their feelings about things. I started to answer her, but as I almost always do these days, I just shrugged it off. Of course we have ideas, and of course we would love to have a chance to debate them here. But it just isn't worth it at all. We can always count on YOU (and a couple others) coming back and making it ugly and making it personal. WHY DO YOU DO THAT?? Does it make you feel superior or something? This post had nothing to do with Trump. It was simply a commentary about a rather sobering article a university professor just made to my timeline. I thought it worthy of discussion. I've learned my lesson about politics. I just don't "go there" on this board anymore. Even though political discussions are my lifeblood. Certainly, we don't all agree on everything. But we don't have to make it nasty or personal. I don't give a flying fuck what you think of me. As for your post, just as with your cult leader, there is always an ulterior motive. You have aided in the demise of this country so yes, it's always going to be personal.
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Post by dewryce on Oct 22, 2020 22:21:41 GMT
Agreed. But it feels as though that’s never going to happen. We aren’t allowed anyone in our homes or yards here, all our restaurants are closed except for takeout, and our daily numbers continue to rise. Looking at the threads on this board about the upcoming holidays, it seems as though no one thinks the rules apply to them. I’m one of the people who said I’m just doing my normal thing in that thread. What you need to understand is that it’s not against any rules here. Just because something is against the rules where you are, doesn’t mean it’s against the rules everywhere. Those rules literally don’t apply to me 🤷🏻♀️ Don’t you live in Texas? We do not have it under control in many places, so I wouldn’t put too much stock in those rules. Now, perhaps you (and others) live in an area with zero cases, and only visit with a very small group who don’t have any other contact with anyone outside of the group or area at all. Maybe your circle is tight, tiny and completely safe. But the odds are, it’s not. I saw a great Venn diagram about this the other day, I wish I had saved it. Anyway, and sincerely not directed at you Shelly, I think we would all be safer and this would be controlled much better if people did the right thing (for themselves and the community at large) simply because it was the right thing to do. Not because there were laws dictating that they do so.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Oct 22, 2020 22:22:00 GMT
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Post by peasapie on Oct 22, 2020 22:22:13 GMT
It's so hard. I just had to tell my kids and grandkids that we won't be getting together for Thanksgiving or for Christmas. I see them to babysit but wear a mask. My 1-year-old grandson barely knows me because half his life has been quarantine. We heard Dr. Fauci say that people get together with "just family" for holidays, and then a few days later one person finds out they have covid and then everyone gets it.
But it sucks, it really does. And I'm angry.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 7, 2024 5:18:31 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2020 22:31:18 GMT
So was this post just the attempt by the OP to profess that it never mattered what her cult leader did in relation to COVID? Pink Lady, I usually just ignore your posts. They are always mean spirited and ugly (at least to conservatives). Just yesterday, I think it was, Kristin was wondering where all the conservatives are and why they don't post their feelings about things. I started to answer her, but as I almost always do these days, I just shrugged it off. Of course we have ideas, and of course we would love to have a chance to debate them here. But it just isn't worth it at all. We can always count on YOU (and a couple others) coming back and making it ugly and making it personal. WHY DO YOU DO THAT?? Does it make you feel superior or something? This post had nothing to do with Trump. It was simply a commentary about a rather sobering article a university professor just made to my timeline. I thought it worthy of discussion. I've learned my lesson about politics. I just don't "go there" on this board anymore. Even though political discussions are my lifeblood. Certainly, we don't all agree on everything. But we don't have to make it nasty or personal. There is nothing conservative about Trump. He's a dumpster fire. Stop excusing the POS and then, maybe, just maybe, you wouldn't be treated harshly. Until then, I'm perfectly fine with "conservatives" not posting here.
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Post by dewryce on Oct 22, 2020 22:31:27 GMT
It's stoppable if people are willing to make sacrifices. I agree. But staying home isn't an option for those who depend on the income of going to work. Until the government subsidizes its citizens so they don't have to go out to work, the people who do go to work will shrug their shoulders with a "why bother" attitude about abstaining from gathering with others recreationally, reasoning that if it's okay to go to work, it's just as okay to go out with friends.But they’re wrong. And if they really thought about it for a moment they would realize that. I suspect many don’t want to. Of course more contact is going to equal more spread. Yes, some people have to work, that is not an option. Most of these other activities are optional. I’ve seen a lot of mental gymnastics by people to make themselves feel better about all the places they are going and unsafe activities they are participating in. I’m not suggesting everyone should only stay home, that’s just not feasible. But there are safe ways to meet with others for our mental health, and some sacrifices do need to be made for the greater good. I’m lucky and in Texas where it won’t get freezing, so hopefully going to have Thanksgiving with my mom and brother. At a park. Each household at separate picnic tables. We are serving food from the back of the car and going up to load our plates separately and in masks. Yes, I realize we will look ridiculous But I’m excited and ordering melamine plates and getting a floral arrangement for each table, and have already purchased as much of our menu as possible!
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craftykitten
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,304
Jun 26, 2014 7:39:32 GMT
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Post by craftykitten on Oct 22, 2020 22:32:06 GMT
Two more things, this idea that you can’t stop a virus from infecting everyone (?) and secondly that a low mortality rate means it's not so bad.
1) You can and should be trying to reduce the number of infections. Social distancing, masks, sanitising, all work together to prevent infections. Just accepting that everyone is going to get it eventually is ridiculously blasé, because 2) it's not just about the mortality rate. They're currently estimating that 30% of people in the UK who have had it, have Long Covid. Months of ill health, inability to work, a hugely varying range of symptoms that mean people will be incapacitated for huge periods of time, maybe permanently. Apart from being irresponsible to expose people to this kind of risk, it doesn't make any sense for your economy because those are your workers, and your spenders. People being sick for months is bad for the economy too.
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Post by dewryce on Oct 22, 2020 22:37:41 GMT
And just because it’s not against “the rules” doesn’t mean it’s safe and responsible. We have a different assessment of the risks and that’s ok. I have to weigh our mental health against our Covid risk and make the decision that’s right for my family. Don’t particularly care what anyone else thinks of that. I appreciate you wanting to take care of your family, I really do. But you are part of a larger community and you bear responsibility there as well. Hopefully you care about that. You are not just putting your family at risk with your activities and your blaze attitude about being willing to put other people at risk is pretty upsetting. I know you probably don’t care, but at least acknowledge that you are putting others at risk and quit shrugging that off. It’s people’s lives we are talking about.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Oct 22, 2020 22:47:35 GMT
dewryce said: I’ve seen a lot of mental gymnastics by people to make themselves feel better about all the places they are going and unsafe activities they are participating in. I’m not suggesting everyone should only stay home, that’s just not feasible. But there are safe ways to meet with others for our mental health, and some sacrifices do need to be made for the greater good. I 100% agree. We are very fortunate that this happened at the period in history it has. We have more options for socializing and more platforms for doing so than ever before. And I'm getting really tired of the "I have to put everyone at risk by engaging in risky interaction because of my mental health." So if you read my other thread, here's me taking femalebusiness advice and losing my shit. What I would say to those people is that *you* truly do not understand at all what it is to live with a real mental health issue. Telling you to stay in your house and socialize with the people who live there only and zoom other people you want to talk to doesn't qualify as mental illness. It doesn't and it never will. That reason to justify putting your loved ones, friends, and neighbors at risk is the most hollow excuse I have ever heard. If you live completely alone, fine, add someone to your immediate circle but for the rest I'm really getting tired of using this an excuse.
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Post by dewryce on Oct 22, 2020 22:55:36 GMT
Exactly jeremysgirl! And no need to engage in risky behavior and put everyone else at risk when there are so many safe ways to visit. I recognize that it is going to become so much harder for much of the country this winter, and that truly does suck. Especially for those who aren’t fortunate enough to have easy access to options like FaceTime/zoom/Skype or an easily accessible safe place to go for a walk. But I am truly frightened for what our country is going to go through the rest of fall and winter.
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Post by pjaye on Oct 22, 2020 22:58:37 GMT
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Post by mellyw on Oct 22, 2020 22:58:48 GMT
dewryce said: I’ve seen a lot of mental gymnastics by people to make themselves feel better about all the places they are going and unsafe activities they are participating in. I’m not suggesting everyone should only stay home, that’s just not feasible. But there are safe ways to meet with others for our mental health, and some sacrifices do need to be made for the greater good. I 100% agree. We are very fortunate that this happened at the period in history it has. We have more options for socializing and more platforms for doing so than ever before. And I'm getting really tired of the "I have to put everyone at risk by engaging in risky interaction because of my mental health." So if you read my other thread, here's me taking femalebusiness advice and losing my shit. What I would say to those people is that *you* truly do not understand at all what it is to live with a real mental health issue. Telling you to stay in your house and socialize with the people who live there only and zoom other people you want to talk to doesn't qualify as mental illness. It doesn't and it never will. That reason to justify putting your loved ones, friends, and neighbors at risk is the most hollow excuse I have ever heard. If you live completely alone, fine, add someone to your immediate circle but for the rest I'm really getting tired of using this an excuse. Just here to profess my love of your post, and you.💕
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Post by anxiousmom on Oct 22, 2020 23:08:40 GMT
The problem, I think, is that some people when they are using their scales to balance the risk of all this is that they forget or are not mindful of those who are dependent also on their choices. Like we depend on group immunity to protect babies before vaccines are able to be given, the vulnerable population is depending on other people to help keep them safe until a vaccine can be mass produced.
I didn’t ask to be vulnerable. I didn’t do anything to make me this way. I can’t stay in all the time - I am single and I work, have to run to the store, get gas, whatever. Doc says you don’t want to catch it because for you it will be worse. My bubble is teeny. I haven’t seen my children in person once since spring and my parents twice when we met outside at a distance. It’s truly one of the more difficult times I’m my life.
For whatever reasons people have to not follow basic public health recommendations it is hard for me to think that there are those who consider me and so many others expendable. Just let it run it’s coutse or stay home quivering in fear shouldn’t be the only options. If everyone pulled together for the greater good then we could get through this.
(And I’m sorry for being ugly, but sometimes we have to delay gratification to get to that better place and I fear that there are a great many people who were never taught this lesson as children which is why we have so many people who don’t care much about helping others out by following the simple rules laid out to help other people who may be more likely to get sicker or worse than just you.)
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on Oct 22, 2020 23:22:29 GMT
It comes down to people not giving up things that they don't want to give up. People want to go to restaurants, sporting events, parties, etc. - and so they do.
You are never going to bring your risk down to 0%. But the actions you take DO lower the risk. Making one fewer trip to the grocery store. Having something delivered instead of going out for it Having one person in the family do the errands instead of 2 Shopping at times that are less busy Skipping things that aren't really essential Not going to gatherings of people outside of your family and, or course - wearing a mask when you DO go out
Let's say that each of those things lowers your risk of contracting the virus by 10% - put them all together and the risk becomes much lower. You may not get it to zero - but would 13% be better than 70%? For sure. And if you do get the virus, you will know that you did everything you could to avoid it.
The other thing to keep in mind - would you rather have the virus early or late? Early on, our medical workers don't have the same knowledge of what works and what doesn't. There's a huge difference between getting sick in the first wave vs. getting sick 18 months later. Maybe we have better treatments, medications, etc. We'll certainly have more experience.
It's crazy to see how many people are willing to go gather in large groups, with many not wearing a mask. But that's their lives, and if they choose to risk it that way I don't really care if they die or not. But what I DO care about is the people they are going to expose who didn't choose to go to those gatherings - the medical staff, the family members, the complete strangers they pass by as they go about their day.
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Post by elaine on Oct 22, 2020 23:23:32 GMT
Another benefit of flattening the curve is the availability of new and/or more effective treatments as time goes on.
People who died in the first wave may not have died were they to have contracted COVID in December or later, simply due to more medical expertise with the disease and treatments such as Remdesivir (which just got FDA approval today) and others we don’t even know about yet.
Being HIV+ and having AIDS was basically a death sentence in the 1980s; it is possible to live a long life with HIV now. When someone contracted HIV is a major factor in whether it was survivable because of how it was treated.
There is every reason to think that medical experts around the world will continue to develop treatments to help manage various facets of COVID-19, but they need time to do it.
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scrappinspidey2
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,511
Location: In the Parlor with the Fly
Mar 18, 2015 19:19:37 GMT
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Post by scrappinspidey2 on Oct 22, 2020 23:35:28 GMT
Let me just say that I avoid all the crowds. I haven't stepped foot on a beach in months because of the crowds. I wear a mask with the exception of my walking for exercise per my doc. I believe we should be doing everything we can to slow down transmission. Thought that needed clarification with my last statement
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Post by Basket1lady on Oct 22, 2020 23:38:10 GMT
The reality is that people are gathering at home. Or going to a neighboring town or even country. People in Europe are very mobile. Many work in one country and live in another. Or work in one country and travel home for the weekend. Or visited family in another EU country during holiday. Or went home to see parents they hadn’t seen in 6 months. My Facebook feed is FULL of people asking where to get Covid tests because they want to travel or are coming back from traveling and need a test. I’m constantly astonished by those who try to get too close to me and when I say something, they say they know me or they trust me. Sure, it’s not like you can get the virus from me or give it to me because we’re friends.
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Post by AussieMeg on Oct 22, 2020 23:46:04 GMT
Has anyone seen a country mortality rate adjusted for age of population? I'm going to do some looking, but age is such a huge risk factor, you really need to adjust country's numbers for not just per capita, but also relative age. There was an article in Technology Review a few weeks ago that looked at a city in South America that did nothing and they now estimate a huge portion - I want to say 40% of the population contracted COVID, their mortality rate is actually not that bad, many countries have much much higher rates with way more restrictions, but the city was greatly helped by a very relatively young population. This is not exactly what you're talking about, but here are some stats from Australia. The first graph shows cases by age/gender, and the second graph shows deaths by age/gender. The highest number of cases are in the 20-29yo age group, and the highest number of deaths by far are in the 80-89 and 90+ age group. I'm glad that these stats are not being shared widely in the news because they add weight to the argument that it's only/mainly old people who are dying, and could possibly lead to younger people not taking as many precautions. www.health.gov.au
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Post by Darcy Collins on Oct 23, 2020 0:09:38 GMT
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Oct 23, 2020 0:18:18 GMT
I’m one of the people who said I’m just doing my normal thing in that thread. What you need to understand is that it’s not against any rules here. Just because something is against the rules where you are, doesn’t mean it’s against the rules everywhere. Those rules literally don’t apply to me 🤷🏻♀️ Actually I think and I may be wrong, she was talking about the rules of the virus, not actual laws and policies. The virus here is setting forth the rules that need to be followed to stop the spread. And then there are dumbasses who think that that *those* rules don't apply to them and only manmade rules do (but there are some who don't even follow those) and that's why the virus keeps killing people. Exactly. The *rules* of science relating to the spread of this virus don’t care if a government enforces or mandates them. They exist no matter what.
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Oct 23, 2020 0:19:11 GMT
This article is from a month ago. Their death rate is terrible. Their daily deaths since August has been in single digits. Worldometer/Corona/SwedenFor now. Until people are driven indoors by winter.
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Post by pierkiss on Oct 23, 2020 0:23:06 GMT
If people are having private parties then “they” are not doing everything “right”. Just pointing that out.
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Post by megop on Oct 23, 2020 0:29:17 GMT
Has anyone seen a country mortality rate adjusted for age of population? I'm going to do some looking, but age is such a huge risk factor, you really need to adjust country's numbers for not just per capita, but also relative age. There was an article in Technology Review a few weeks ago that looked at a city in South America that did nothing and they now estimate a huge portion - I want to say 40% of the population contracted COVID, their mortality rate is actually not that bad, many countries have much much higher rates with way more restrictions, but the city was greatly helped by a very relatively young population. Here is the thing you have to understand when looking at other countries and mortality rate. We, in the U.S. by and large, are an unhealthy population. It isn't about just the elderly people, or "others" with "underlying conditions" what you think those may be. Yes, diabetes, any disease that makes you unhealthy IS a risk factor. Are you overweight? That's a disease risk factor. Sedentary? Risk factor. Family history of heart disease? Risk factor. Smoker or previous smoker? Risk factor. High stress? Yup, effects your health and could play a factor. Wear your mask, wash your hands, maintain social distance even with that "one trusted friend or family member."
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Post by megop on Oct 23, 2020 0:33:51 GMT
There's also genomics that comes into play with this virus.
I get it. People want answers. They want their lives back. They want the steps to keep them and their loved ones safe. But here is the dealio, until science knows more, the ONLY thing you can do is be diligent over the very simple steps already laid out. The way to win the war is not to play with this disease at all. Don't take chances. It's ok.
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Post by megop on Oct 23, 2020 0:37:15 GMT
And Darcy, I get it when looking at statistics etc. But here is my view. Statistics will only make us feel better, or worse. People feel better? They will take risks. Feel worse? They won't. There is just too much unknown to rely on that type of data to make personal decisions in my mind. I go back to the basics. Practice, always, what medical professionals know offers you the best protection to not contract. Masks, hands, distance.
Edited to add, and do your local health care workers a huge favor. Get your flu shot now. Just sayin.
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Post by gardengoddess on Oct 23, 2020 0:38:42 GMT
The "leadership" of our country made wearing a mask political. From that point on, it was nothing but a game with him and his supporters are playing along with him. I'm just going to go ahead and get myself used to masked society and make sure my family and I do everything we can not to endanger ourselves or anyone else. At least until there is a vaccine that we'll trust.
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