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Post by miominmio on Oct 23, 2020 5:53:20 GMT
Why Sweden Is Doing Better With Coronavirus Pandemic Than Other CountriesNoteable excerpts: Unlike other countries, Sweden left its pandemic strategy up to public health officials rather than politicians. Sweden's chief epidemiologist says the country looks at coronavirus as a long-term problem, not something that can be wiped out “You can’t open and close schools. That is going to be a disaster. And you probably can’t open and close restaurants and stuff like that either too many times. Once or twice, yes, but then people will get very tired and businesses will probably suffer more than if you close them down completely,” he* said. (Anders Tignell, Sweden’s top epidemiologist) This article is from a month ago. Their death rate is terrible. As it has been from the start.
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Post by miominmio on Oct 23, 2020 5:54:44 GMT
Has anyone seen a country mortality rate adjusted for age of population? I'm going to do some looking, but age is such a huge risk factor, you really need to adjust country's numbers for not just per capita, but also relative age. There was an article in Technology Review a few weeks ago that looked at a city in South America that did nothing and they now estimate a huge portion - I want to say 40% of the population contracted COVID, their mortality rate is actually not that bad, many countries have much much higher rates with way more restrictions, but the city was greatly helped by a very relatively young population. Yes.
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lesley
Drama Llama
My best friend Turriff, desperately missed.
Posts: 7,295
Location: Scotland, Scotland, Scotland
Jul 6, 2014 21:50:44 GMT
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Post by lesley on Oct 23, 2020 6:38:16 GMT
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Oct 23, 2020 11:17:53 GMT
And people are putting my family’s life at risk by sending their kids to in person school. Nothing I can do about it. I’m not going to stop doing the things I want to do when I’m exposed to risk through school anyway. If school can be open, I can do whatever I want. If it’s not safe, shut down school and I’ll have an actual choice to lock down. No way am I missing out on anything fun as long as risk is forced on my house anyway. You know we have memories, right? Absent that, the forum has a search function. You’ve consecutively relied on a series of excuses for your behavior - from suicide ideation to an insistent reliance on your area’s low numbers to Americans-won’t-wear-masks-anyway to family mental health to adherence to your state’s not-based-in-science rules. Now your posture is that your only rationale is your husband’s employment circumstances, a stance which, in addition to being fraught on its own merits, implies that your behavior was very different until that event. And if that event didn’t happen, there’s an abundance of evidence, including this thread, that you’d climb back on the family mental health wagon. You and yours. Your behavior will be your behavior because you are you. The rest is just noise.
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Post by sabrinae on Oct 23, 2020 11:34:11 GMT
I appreciate you wanting to take care of your family, I really do. But you are part of a larger community and you bear responsibility there as well. Hopefully you care about that. You are not just putting your family at risk with your activities and your blaze attitude about being willing to put other people at risk is pretty upsetting. I know you probably don’t care, but at least acknowledge that you are putting others at risk and quit shrugging that off. It’s people’s lives we are talking about. And people are putting my family’s life at risk by sending their kids to in person school. Nothing I can do about it. I’m not going to stop doing the things I want to do when I’m exposed to risk through school anyway. If school can be open, I can do whatever I want. If it’s not safe, shut down school and I’ll have an actual choice to lock down. No way am I missing out on anything fun as long as risk is forced on my house anyway. You weren’t missing out on anything before in person school started. You were going to Disney and NASCAR events and anywhere else you could find things open. At least be honest, you don’t give a damn about anyone but you and your immediate family. You are going to find a way to justify doing whatever you want. Then your going to whine about your husband teaching in person.
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keithurbanlovinpea
Pearl Clutcher
Flowing with the go...
Posts: 4,302
Jun 29, 2014 3:29:30 GMT
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Post by keithurbanlovinpea on Oct 23, 2020 12:25:25 GMT
Agreed. But it feels as though that’s never going to happen. We aren’t allowed anyone in our homes or yards here, all our restaurants are closed except for takeout, and our daily numbers continue to rise. Looking at the threads on this board about the upcoming holidays, it seems as though no one thinks the rules apply to them. I’m one of the people who said I’m just doing my normal thing in that thread. What you need to understand is that it’s not against any rules here. Just because something is against the rules where you are, doesn’t mean it’s against the rules everywhere. Those rules literally don’t apply to me 🤷🏻♀️ To me this is what is wrong with politicians setting policy. People don't think logically about the virus from a scientific standpoint. They simply think that if the government says it's ok to gather, eat in a restaurant, not wear a mask, etc. then it much be ok.
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Post by elaine on Oct 23, 2020 12:25:42 GMT
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Post by mikklynn on Oct 23, 2020 13:23:36 GMT
And just because it’s not against “the rules” doesn’t mean it’s safe and responsible. We have a different assessment of the risks and that’s ok. I have to weigh our mental health against our Covid risk and make the decision that’s right for my family. Don’t particularly care what anyone else thinks of that. That is fine, except what you do affects my family. You may work in health care or spread it to someone who does. DH has no choice about getting treatment in person for his cancer.
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Post by mikklynn on Oct 23, 2020 13:28:55 GMT
The reality is that people are gathering at home. Or going to a neighboring town or even country. People in Europe are very mobile. Many work in one country and live in another. Or work in one country and travel home for the weekend. Or visited family in another EU country during holiday. Or went home to see parents they hadn’t seen in 6 months. My Facebook feed is FULL of people asking where to get Covid tests because they want to travel or are coming back from traveling and need a test. I’m constantly astonished by those who try to get too close to me and when I say something, they say they know me or they trust me. Sure, it’s not like you can get the virus from me or give it to me because we’re friends. OMG - that is the attitude of one of my best friends. She is someone intelligent, but I don't think she pays any attention to the news. We Zoomed this week and she had friends visiting from Utah for a week. They drove from Utah to Missouri to pick up a puppy, then drove to Minnesota to visit a parent in a senior living facility. They had the parent and his friend over for dinner! She also babysits her 2 grandchildren once a week. She can't understand that those are risky activities.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Oct 23, 2020 13:30:27 GMT
We have a different assessment of the risks and that’s ok. I have to weigh our mental health against our Covid risk and make the decision that’s right for my family. Don’t particularly care what anyone else thinks of that. That is fine, except what you do affects my family. You may work in health care or spread it to someone who does. DH has no choice about getting treatment in person for his cancer. And her teacher husband is putting his students and coworkers at higher risk because of the family's actions.
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Post by anxiousmom on Oct 23, 2020 13:48:39 GMT
So my intention is to not pile on but rather to explain how someone’s care free travel impacts my bubble.
Disney. The lifeblood of central Florida’s economy.
A huge number of people in my area live here but work at Disney. They go to work then come home to shop, to send their kids to school, etc. The same place I go. At least two of my coworkers have spouses that work at Disney.
When you (the global you) come to Disney you potentially expose ME. You go to the parks, shops, restaurants...and every person you interact with interacts with a wide range of people.
The rules say you can go to Disney. My governor does not care. He has the state open completely and says there is no going back. Our numbers are going up. But you can visit.
So some one who comes from other states may not consider just how many people you have just forced to be included in your bubble. So someone else’s risk assessment may work in thier favor, but really the burden now is spread out to include so many other people that didn’t ask for it.
It is frustrating for sure.
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Post by dewryce on Oct 23, 2020 13:50:52 GMT
That is fine, except what you do affects my family. You may work in health care or spread it to someone who does. DH has no choice about getting treatment in person for his cancer. And her teacher husband is putting his students and coworkers at higher risk because of the family's actions. This. DH has to work too, as an OT working closely with patients in a nursing home. But we feel a responsibility (and compassion) for those he works with and recognize that our actions could harm them, and so we both act accordingly.
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Post by mikklynn on Oct 23, 2020 13:53:03 GMT
And her teacher husband is putting his students and coworkers at higher risk because of the family's actions. This. DH has to work too, as an OT working closely with patients in a nursing home. But we feel a responsibility (and compassion) for those he works with and recognize that our actions could harm them, and so we both act accordingly. Thank you for that!
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Post by dewryce on Oct 23, 2020 13:59:03 GMT
This. DH has to work too, as an OT working closely with patients in a nursing home. But we feel a responsibility (and compassion) for those he works with and recognize that our actions could harm them, and so we both act accordingly. Thank you for that! Of course! It actually feels a little silly (for lack of a better word) to even accept praise for something like this because it seems like the only decent/logical thing to do. We are all in this together and if we can’t all care about the other people in our communities then I’m at a loss.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Oct 23, 2020 14:27:51 GMT
Of course! It actually feels a little silly (for lack of a better word) to even accept praise for something like this because it seems like the only decent/logical thing to do. We are all in this together and if we can’t all care about the other people in our communities then I’m at a loss. Yes! Thank you for saying this. It's just what you do because it's the right thing to do.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Oct 23, 2020 15:02:25 GMT
That is fine, except what you do affects my family. You may work in health care or spread it to someone who does. DH has no choice about getting treatment in person for his cancer. And her teacher husband is putting his students and coworkers at higher risk because of the family's actions. Exactly. He gets it from running around doing all the things and hanging out with extended family and friends, then inadvertently spreads it along to all the kids in his class(es), many of whom are probably there because there is no one at home to care for them during the day if they had to do 100% online school. Now all of *their* families are exposed, even if they are trying to be careful and school and work are the ONLY things their families are doing. Having said that, I will acknowledge that the fatigue is real and affects different people in different ways. For me, I could continue on like this for a pretty long time, but I don’t mind being by myself not really going out a lot and FWIW I’m with my DD all the time anyway. My DH not so much. He is way more social than I am and not doing all his things is getting to him. But that doesn’t mean he should have free reign to just do whatever the hell he wants because he’s bored.
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Post by gizzy on Oct 23, 2020 15:20:57 GMT
It saddens and scares me to read that though it's been evident that the only way out of this is thru therapeutics and/or vaccine.
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kibblesandbits
Pearl Clutcher
At the corner of Awesome and Bombdiggity
Posts: 3,305
Aug 13, 2016 13:47:39 GMT
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Post by kibblesandbits on Oct 23, 2020 15:54:46 GMT
It's stoppable if people are willing to make sacrifices. I agree. But staying home isn't an option for those who depend on the income of going to work. Until the government subsidizes its citizens so they don't have to go out to work, the people who do go to work will shrug their shoulders with a "why bother" attitude about abstaining from gathering with others recreationally, reasoning that if it's okay to go to work, it's just as okay to go out with friends. Staying home isn't an option for millions. Almost every high school I know of is hosting sporting events. Hell, even posters here in Perfect Pea Land are going to watch their kids play sports. National teams are playing. Malls are open. Movie theaters are open. Restaurants are open. We are so far past the "stay home you selfish bastard" phase. Honestly. These threads are just ways to show superiority and please yourself by bludgeoning those who are acting differently than "you". So ridiculous. But, we can focus on fighting with each other over behaviors and levels of compliance while Rome burns . . .
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Post by Really Red on Oct 23, 2020 16:26:04 GMT
So was this post just the attempt by the OP to profess that it never mattered what her cult leader did in relation to COVID? Pink Lady, I usually just ignore your posts. They are always mean spirited and ugly (at least to conservatives). Just yesterday, I think it was, Kristin was wondering where all the conservatives are and why they don't post their feelings about things. I started to answer her, but as I almost always do these days, I just shrugged it off. Of course we have ideas, and of course we would love to have a chance to debate them here. But it just isn't worth it at all. We can always count on YOU (and a couple others) coming back and making it ugly and making it personal. WHY DO YOU DO THAT?? Does it make you feel superior or something? This post had nothing to do with Trump. It was simply a commentary about a rather sobering article a university professor just made to my timeline. I thought it worthy of discussion. I've learned my lesson about politics. I just don't "go there" on this board anymore. Even though political discussions are my lifeblood. Certainly, we don't all agree on everything. But we don't have to make it nasty or personal. While I agree with much of what you said above, I think sometimes it's difficult for me (I do not know about others) when someone posts something a bit controversial and then leaves the conversation. Personally, I don't like it. If you can start the conversation, you should be able to comment or finish it, not just ignore it. So you posted something interesting and valid and you clearly wanted conversation about it. I know I gave you very valid reasons. I am European and while not Italian, close enough that I can give some introspective. Do you disagree with what others wrote? Agree with it? FWIW, I agree 100% with you that no one should be nasty. But that includes the president.
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Post by Merge on Oct 23, 2020 16:31:56 GMT
I agree. But staying home isn't an option for those who depend on the income of going to work. Until the government subsidizes its citizens so they don't have to go out to work, the people who do go to work will shrug their shoulders with a "why bother" attitude about abstaining from gathering with others recreationally, reasoning that if it's okay to go to work, it's just as okay to go out with friends. Staying home isn't an option for millions. Almost every high school I know of is hosting sporting events. Hell, even posters here in Perfect Pea Land are going to watch their kids play sports. National teams are playing. Malls are open. Movie theaters are open. Restaurants are open. We are so far past the "stay home you selfish bastard" phase. Honestly. These threads are just ways to show superiority and please yourself by bludgeoning those who are acting differently than "you". So ridiculous. But, we can focus on fighting with each other over behaviors and levels of compliance while Rome burns . . . Yes, our desire to not catch or spread a dangerous virus is totally about superiority. Just because things are open doesn’t mean you have to go to them. It’s not an option to go to work, but movie theaters, malls and Disney are totally optional. Choosing not to go to those places isn’t an act of superiority. It’s what you do if you value the lives of others as much as your own. It’s a sad day when citing simple care and concern for human lives is “showing our superiority.”
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kibblesandbits
Pearl Clutcher
At the corner of Awesome and Bombdiggity
Posts: 3,305
Aug 13, 2016 13:47:39 GMT
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Post by kibblesandbits on Oct 23, 2020 17:09:22 GMT
Staying home isn't an option for millions. Almost every high school I know of is hosting sporting events. Hell, even posters here in Perfect Pea Land are going to watch their kids play sports. National teams are playing. Malls are open. Movie theaters are open. Restaurants are open. We are so far past the "stay home you selfish bastard" phase. Honestly. These threads are just ways to show superiority and please yourself by bludgeoning those who are acting differently than "you". So ridiculous. But, we can focus on fighting with each other over behaviors and levels of compliance while Rome burns . . . Yes, our desire to not catch or spread a dangerous virus is totally about superiority. Just because things are open doesn’t mean you have to go to them. It’s not an option to go to work, but movie theaters, malls and Disney are totally optional. Choosing not to go to those places isn’t an act of superiority. It’s what you do if you value the lives of others as much as your own. It’s a sad day when citing simple care and concern for human lives is “showing our superiority.” You are proving my point. I think you - the collective "you" - are going to have to get past the idea that "staying home" is what is going to fix this pandemic. it's just not going to happen. But, keep advocating for it, even when you don't do it yourself. Again, general "you".
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Post by anxiousmom on Oct 23, 2020 17:13:59 GMT
I agree. But staying home isn't an option for those who depend on the income of going to work. Until the government subsidizes its citizens so they don't have to go out to work, the people who do go to work will shrug their shoulders with a "why bother" attitude about abstaining from gathering with others recreationally, reasoning that if it's okay to go to work, it's just as okay to go out with friends. Staying home isn't an option for millions. Almost every high school I know of is hosting sporting events. Hell, even posters here in Perfect Pea Land are going to watch their kids play sports. National teams are playing. Malls are open. Movie theaters are open. Restaurants are open. We are so far past the "stay home you selfish bastard" phase. Honestly. These threads are just ways to show superiority and please yourself by bludgeoning those who are acting differently than "you". So ridiculous. But, we can focus on fighting with each other over behaviors and levels of compliance while Rome burns . . . My particular position isn’t to beat people about the head and shoulders to force them into staying home. Even in my own life that is simply not feasible. But I don’t think it’s unreasonable to request that we be mindful about how we chose our destinations and to follow simple guidelines while we do it. And consider the opposite. For every time I’m scorned for following those guidelines as laid out by my physician, I am trying to protect myself in an environment where I can potentially have a life altering out come to the virus. I feel sometimes that my life and wellbeing are being dismissed. I understand that not everyone thinks like me. I really do. I live in a state that hasn’t taken this seriously from the start. But why is it so difficult to understand that basic virus mitigation requires us all to do our part? Asking for that makes me the bad guy?
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Post by Merge on Oct 23, 2020 17:25:47 GMT
Yes, our desire to not catch or spread a dangerous virus is totally about superiority. Just because things are open doesn’t mean you have to go to them. It’s not an option to go to work, but movie theaters, malls and Disney are totally optional. Choosing not to go to those places isn’t an act of superiority. It’s what you do if you value the lives of others as much as your own. It’s a sad day when citing simple care and concern for human lives is “showing our superiority.” You are proving my point. I think you - the collective "you" - are going to have to get past the idea that "staying home" is what is going to fix this pandemic. it's just not going to happen. But, keep advocating for it, even when you don't do it yourself. Again, general "you". That’s quite a leap from “don’t go to crowded places unnecessarily” to “stay home to completely fix the pandemic.” You’re going to have to point out to me where that was said. The failure of people like “you” to realize that we can do things to slow the spread while acknowledging that we’re not able to fix it entirely is the whole problem here. If mask mandates had been made and enforced, and if people had taken distancing seriously during the last 7 months, we wouldn’t be where we are now. But no, we have folks who think that since we can’t have zero deaths, we might as well throw up our hands and accept hundreds of thousands. Ridiculous.
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kibblesandbits
Pearl Clutcher
At the corner of Awesome and Bombdiggity
Posts: 3,305
Aug 13, 2016 13:47:39 GMT
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Post by kibblesandbits on Oct 23, 2020 17:35:59 GMT
You are proving my point. I think you - the collective "you" - are going to have to get past the idea that "staying home" is what is going to fix this pandemic. it's just not going to happen. But, keep advocating for it, even when you don't do it yourself. Again, general "you". That’s quite a leap from “don’t go to crowded places unnecessarily” to “stay home to completely fix the pandemic.” You’re going to have to point out to me where that was said. The failure of people like “you” to realize that we can do things to slow the spread while acknowledging that we’re not able to fix it entirely is the whole problem here. If mask mandates had been made and enforced, and if people had taken distancing seriously during the last 7 months, we wouldn’t be where we are now. But no, we have folks who think that since we can’t have zero deaths, we might as well throw up our hands and accept hundreds of thousands. Ridiculous. "If" "If" "If" If wishes were dimes, I'd be rich. We had a period of time in the US where EVERYBODY stayed home. It was unreal the compliance. What good did it do? Not much. You know, it's not like I'm zooming around hanging out in crowds and swapping germs with all and sundry. I don't know anyone that is doing that. I'm staying home as much as I can possibly, do, I am washing my hands and wearing my freaking mask. It's what I see everyone do. In my area, compliance is quite high. And guess what? STILL our cases are climbing. As they are everywhere - compliant and non-compliant areas alike. This is all out of our hands, for the most part. I know it's scary to acknowledge that.
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Oct 23, 2020 17:58:44 GMT
And people are putting my family’s life at risk by sending their kids to in person school. Nothing I can do about it. I’m not going to stop doing the things I want to do when I’m exposed to risk through school anyway. If school can be open, I can do whatever I want. If it’s not safe, shut down school and I’ll have an actual choice to lock down. No way am I missing out on anything fun as long as risk is forced on my house anyway. You know we have memories, right? Absent that, the forum has a search function. You’ve consecutively relied on a series of excuses for your behavior - from suicide ideation to an insistent reliance on your area’s low numbers to Americans-won’t-wear-masks-anyway to family mental health to adherence to your state’s not-based-in-science rules. Now your posture is that your only rationale is your husband’s employment circumstances, a stance which, in addition to being fraught on its own merits, implies that your behavior was very different until that event. And if that event didn’t happen, there’s an abundance of evidence, including this thread, that you’d climb back on the family mental health wagon. You and yours. Your behavior will be your behavior because you are you. The rest is just noise. The whole philosophy is bizarre. It’s like being handed a gun ready for Russian roulette, and saying oh well there is *a* bullet in there anyway, may as well add a few more. 🤷🏼♀️
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Post by Merge on Oct 23, 2020 18:42:12 GMT
That’s quite a leap from “don’t go to crowded places unnecessarily” to “stay home to completely fix the pandemic.” You’re going to have to point out to me where that was said. The failure of people like “you” to realize that we can do things to slow the spread while acknowledging that we’re not able to fix it entirely is the whole problem here. If mask mandates had been made and enforced, and if people had taken distancing seriously during the last 7 months, we wouldn’t be where we are now. But no, we have folks who think that since we can’t have zero deaths, we might as well throw up our hands and accept hundreds of thousands. Ridiculous. "If" "If" "If" If wishes were dimes, I'd be rich. We had a period of time in the US where EVERYBODY stayed home. It was unreal the compliance. What good did it do? Not much. You know, it's not like I'm zooming around hanging out in crowds and swapping germs with all and sundry. I don't know anyone that is doing that. I'm staying home as much as I can possibly, do, I am washing my hands and wearing my freaking mask. It's what I see everyone do. In my area, compliance is quite high. And guess what? STILL our cases are climbing. As they are everywhere - compliant and non-compliant areas alike. This is all out of our hands, for the most part. I know it's scary to acknowledge that. All out of our hands? What do you think causes disease? Magic? Bad luck? Divine intervention? That would be scary indeed. If cases are climbing in your area, as they are in mine, it’s likely because people are not complying. Bars are open here in contravention of local shutdown orders, and people continue to have house parties, weddings, etc. That is not compliance. And at least in my state, we never had it fully even when we were first “locked down,” because from the first, our president and GOP leadership repeated the lie that the whole thing was a big hoax to hurt Trump. ETA: you’re clearly feeling defensive about your decision to do something or go somewhere. I can’t help you with that. If your conscience is bothering you, good. If you don’t like having it pointed out, too bad.
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kibblesandbits
Pearl Clutcher
At the corner of Awesome and Bombdiggity
Posts: 3,305
Aug 13, 2016 13:47:39 GMT
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Post by kibblesandbits on Oct 23, 2020 18:51:34 GMT
"If" "If" "If" If wishes were dimes, I'd be rich. We had a period of time in the US where EVERYBODY stayed home. It was unreal the compliance. What good did it do? Not much. You know, it's not like I'm zooming around hanging out in crowds and swapping germs with all and sundry. I don't know anyone that is doing that. I'm staying home as much as I can possibly, do, I am washing my hands and wearing my freaking mask. It's what I see everyone do. In my area, compliance is quite high. And guess what? STILL our cases are climbing. As they are everywhere - compliant and non-compliant areas alike. This is all out of our hands, for the most part. I know it's scary to acknowledge that. All out of our hands? What do you think causes disease? Magic? Bad luck? Divine intervention? That would be scary indeed. If cases are climbing in your area, as they are in mine, it’s likely because people are not complying. Bars are open here in contravention of local shutdown orders, and people continue to have house parties, weddings, etc. That is not compliance. And at least in my state, we never had it fully even when we were first “locked down,” because from the first, our president and GOP leadership repeated the lie that the whole thing was a big hoax to hurt Trump. Cases are climbing all over the world, and the US. Even in areas that are doing most things right. 100% compliance is not an achievable goal. It's a highly unrealistic expectation. I know what caused THIS disease lol but that's a whole 'other can of worms. Bioterrorism for $500, Alex? Joking, but not really . . . It was not created by us, was within our ranks weeks before we even had a chance to begin to respond, and had spread like wildfire because of subterfuge and disinformation from our leaders and the leaders of China. And you, YOU, seem to think that just the average joe can stop it by sticking a mask over his piehole? What ego. This has been a job for the professionals from the very beginning. But again, since we're all busy fighting each other we sure aren't looking at what's really going on. It's working.
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Post by dewryce on Oct 23, 2020 19:04:57 GMT
When we locked down there was a good corresponding decrease in spread and number of fatalities. I’ve seen numbers/graphs for us, Asia, Europe that all reflect the same thing. It did help. It didn’t stop it. THAT is out of our hands. But slowing it down? Not killing as many people? We can do that. Conversely, we also see the same graphs that show a rise in cases 2-3 weeks after a holiday where people safe “fuck it” and gather unsafely.
I haven’t seen anyone advocating for not going anywhere. But if everyone would just be a bit more considerate and make smarter choices then less people would die. For me, that’s an easy choice to make.
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Post by snowsilver on Oct 23, 2020 19:08:37 GMT
Pink Lady, I usually just ignore your posts. They are always mean spirited and ugly (at least to conservatives). Just yesterday, I think it was, Kristin was wondering where all the conservatives are and why they don't post their feelings about things. I started to answer her, but as I almost always do these days, I just shrugged it off. Of course we have ideas, and of course we would love to have a chance to debate them here. But it just isn't worth it at all. We can always count on YOU (and a couple others) coming back and making it ugly and making it personal. WHY DO YOU DO THAT?? Does it make you feel superior or something? This post had nothing to do with Trump. It was simply a commentary about a rather sobering article a university professor just made to my timeline. I thought it worthy of discussion. I've learned my lesson about politics. I just don't "go there" on this board anymore. Even though political discussions are my lifeblood. Certainly, we don't all agree on everything. But we don't have to make it nasty or personal. While I agree with much of what you said above, I think sometimes it's difficult for me (I do not know about others) when someone posts something a bit controversial and then leaves the conversation. Personally, I don't like it. If you can start the conversation, you should be able to comment or finish it, not just ignore it. So you posted something interesting and valid and you clearly wanted conversation about it. I know I gave you very valid reasons. I am European and while not Italian, close enough that I can give some introspective. Do you disagree with what others wrote? Agree with it? FWIW, I agree 100% with you that no one should be nasty. But that includes the president. Thank you, and yes, I agree that usually the OP should be willing to take part in a conversation. I had planned to, but I just always get turned off with ugliness. And to top it off Stitch (I think it was) said she would be just fine if no conservatives posted on this forum anymore. I know that isn't the prevailing attitude of many of the liberals, but it is a bit offputting. You are right--I thought this was interesting information and I have been reading all the responses. And about your comment that no one should be nasty "including the president"--I agree with that too, but I don't have any control over what the president says OR the vice-president either for that matter. Thank you for your nice reply.
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Post by chlerbie on Oct 23, 2020 19:45:23 GMT
That’s quite a leap from “don’t go to crowded places unnecessarily” to “stay home to completely fix the pandemic.” You’re going to have to point out to me where that was said. The failure of people like “you” to realize that we can do things to slow the spread while acknowledging that we’re not able to fix it entirely is the whole problem here. If mask mandates had been made and enforced, and if people had taken distancing seriously during the last 7 months, we wouldn’t be where we are now. But no, we have folks who think that since we can’t have zero deaths, we might as well throw up our hands and accept hundreds of thousands. Ridiculous. "If" "If" "If" If wishes were dimes, I'd be rich. We had a period of time in the US where EVERYBODY stayed home. It was unreal the compliance. What good did it do? Not much. You know, it's not like I'm zooming around hanging out in crowds and swapping germs with all and sundry. I don't know anyone that is doing that. I'm staying home as much as I can possibly, do, I am washing my hands and wearing my freaking mask. It's what I see everyone do. In my area, compliance is quite high. And guess what? STILL our cases are climbing. As they are everywhere - compliant and non-compliant areas alike. This is all out of our hands, for the most part. I know it's scary to acknowledge that. I just read a report today that the original lockdown/stay at home orders likely saved 130,000 lives. I guess it actually DID do some good.
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