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Post by jennifercw on Oct 23, 2020 0:39:17 GMT
dewryce said: I’ve seen a lot of mental gymnastics by people to make themselves feel better about all the places they are going and unsafe activities they are participating in. I’m not suggesting everyone should only stay home, that’s just not feasible. But there are safe ways to meet with others for our mental health, and some sacrifices do need to be made for the greater good. I 100% agree. We are very fortunate that this happened at the period in history it has. We have more options for socializing and more platforms for doing so than ever before. And I'm getting really tired of the "I have to put everyone at risk by engaging in risky interaction because of my mental health." So if you read my other thread, here's me taking femalebusiness advice and losing my shit. What I would say to those people is that *you* truly do not understand at all what it is to live with a real mental health issue. Telling you to stay in your house and socialize with the people who live there only and zoom other people you want to talk to doesn't qualify as mental illness. It doesn't and it never will. That reason to justify putting your loved ones, friends, and neighbors at risk is the most hollow excuse I have ever heard. If you live completely alone, fine, add someone to your immediate circle but for the rest I'm really getting tired of using this an excuse. No one should use their own mental health as an excuse to engage in risky interaction that puts others in jeopardy. But I'm not sure what is meant by "Telling you to stay in your house and socialize with the people who live there only and zoom other people you want to talk to doesn't qualify as mental illness." Perhaps I am interpreting that statement incorrectly, but I don't think we get to tell others that whatever they are experiencing and feeling "doesn't qualify as mental illness." Or decide that pandemic mitigating measures aren't ever a contributing factor of some diagnosable disorders. This is coming from a mom whose daughter has recently come to the realization that she could benefit from seeing a therapist right now. Isolation is 100% one of her issues. So I absolutely believe the pandemic is having an effect on mental health and think we should be very mindful of how we talk about that and how we care for others who are finding this situation extra challenging. But again, I am NOT advocating that people self-diagnose depression and use that as a reason to go eat Thanksgiving dinner with 27 members of their extended family, including granny who is 85 and uncle dave who has diabetes.
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seaexplore
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Apr 25, 2015 23:57:30 GMT
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Post by seaexplore on Oct 23, 2020 0:41:45 GMT
Agreed. But it feels as though that’s never going to happen. We aren’t allowed anyone in our homes or yards here, all our restaurants are closed except for takeout, and our daily numbers continue to rise. Looking at the threads on this board about the upcoming holidays, it seems as though no one thinks the rules apply to them. I’m one of the people who said I’m just doing my normal thing in that thread. What you need to understand is that it’s not against any rules here. Just because something is against the rules where you are, doesn’t mean it’s against the rules everywhere. Those rules literally don’t apply to me 🤷🏻♀️ BUT just because it's not against the rules doesn't mean it should be done.
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Post by myshelly on Oct 23, 2020 0:43:01 GMT
I’m one of the people who said I’m just doing my normal thing in that thread. What you need to understand is that it’s not against any rules here. Just because something is against the rules where you are, doesn’t mean it’s against the rules everywhere. Those rules literally don’t apply to me 🤷🏻♀️ Don’t you live in Texas? We do not have it under control in many places, so I wouldn’t put too much stock in those rules. Now, perhaps you (and others) live in an area with zero cases, and only visit with a very small group who don’t have any other contact with anyone outside of the group or area at all. Maybe your circle is tight, tiny and completely safe. But the odds are, it’s not. I saw a great Venn diagram about this the other day, I wish I had saved it. Anyway, and sincerely not directed at you Shelly, I think we would all be safer and this would be controlled much better if people did the right thing (for themselves and the community at large) simply because it was the right thing to do. Not because there were laws dictating that they do so. Oh I don’t think and didn’t say that we have it under control. Just that the things I am doing aren’t against any rules here.
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seaexplore
Prolific Pea
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Apr 25, 2015 23:57:30 GMT
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Post by seaexplore on Oct 23, 2020 0:43:38 GMT
In about four weeks after all the "it's just a few close friends" Halloween parties and "it's outside so it's safe trick-or-treating", the numbers are going to go off the charts... The "the rules only apply to everyone else" attitude makes me want to move to mountain top and become a hermit. Don't be silly... it's going to just magically go away after the election and we'll all be able to see our families and carry on with life as it was in the before time. (I TOTALLY do NOT believe this!)
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Post by jeremysgirl on Oct 23, 2020 0:44:34 GMT
dewryce said: I’ve seen a lot of mental gymnastics by people to make themselves feel better about all the places they are going and unsafe activities they are participating in. I’m not suggesting everyone should only stay home, that’s just not feasible. But there are safe ways to meet with others for our mental health, and some sacrifices do need to be made for the greater good. I 100% agree. We are very fortunate that this happened at the period in history it has. We have more options for socializing and more platforms for doing so than ever before. And I'm getting really tired of the "I have to put everyone at risk by engaging in risky interaction because of my mental health." So if you read my other thread, here's me taking femalebusiness advice and losing my shit. What I would say to those people is that *you* truly do not understand at all what it is to live with a real mental health issue. Telling you to stay in your house and socialize with the people who live there only and zoom other people you want to talk to doesn't qualify as mental illness. It doesn't and it never will. That reason to justify putting your loved ones, friends, and neighbors at risk is the most hollow excuse I have ever heard. If you live completely alone, fine, add someone to your immediate circle but for the rest I'm really getting tired of using this an excuse. No one should use their own mental health as an excuse to engage in risky interaction that puts others in jeopardy. But I'm not sure what is meant by "Telling you to stay in your house and socialize with the people who live there only and zoom other people you want to talk to doesn't qualify as mental illness." Perhaps I am interpreting that statement incorrectly, but I don't think we get to tell others that whatever they are experiencing and feeling "doesn't qualify as mental illness." Or decide that pandemic mitigating measures aren't ever a contributing factor of some diagnosable disorders. This is coming from a mom whose daughter has recently come to the realization that she could benefit from seeing a therapist right now. Isolation is 100% one of her issues. So I absolutely believe the pandemic is having an effect on mental health and think we should be very mindful of how we talk about that and how we care for others who are finding this situation extra challenging. But again, I am NOT advocating that people self-diagnose depression and use that as a reason to go eat Thanksgiving dinner with 27 members of their extended family, including granny who is 85 and uncle dave who has diabetes. I'm not saying people aren't struggling. I get it. And talking to a therapist I stand behind always. I think it's a huge benefit. But there is a certain poster who even pulled the suicide card over not being able to go to Disney and Nascar. That's a whole lot more extreme than I have to stand outside six feet away and talk to my friend. As dewryce said and I agreed with, there are creative ways to socialize that don't put people at risk.
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Post by myshelly on Oct 23, 2020 0:46:26 GMT
We have a different assessment of the risks and that’s ok. I have to weigh our mental health against our Covid risk and make the decision that’s right for my family. Don’t particularly care what anyone else thinks of that. I appreciate you wanting to take care of your family, I really do. But you are part of a larger community and you bear responsibility there as well. Hopefully you care about that. You are not just putting your family at risk with your activities and your blaze attitude about being willing to put other people at risk is pretty upsetting. I know you probably don’t care, but at least acknowledge that you are putting others at risk and quit shrugging that off. It’s people’s lives we are talking about. And people are putting my family’s life at risk by sending their kids to in person school. Nothing I can do about it. I’m not going to stop doing the things I want to do when I’m exposed to risk through school anyway. If school can be open, I can do whatever I want. If it’s not safe, shut down school and I’ll have an actual choice to lock down. No way am I missing out on anything fun as long as risk is forced on my house anyway.
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Deleted
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Oct 7, 2024 5:14:36 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2020 0:47:58 GMT
The problem, I think, is that some people when they are using their scales to balance the risk of all this is that they forget or are not mindful of those who are dependent also on their choices. Like we depend on group immunity to protect babies before vaccines are able to be given, the vulnerable population is depending on other people to help keep them safe until a vaccine can be mass produced. I didn’t ask to be vulnerable. I didn’t do anything to make me this way. I can’t stay in all the time - I am single and I work, have to run to the store, get gas, whatever. Doc says you don’t want to catch it because for you it will be worse. My bubble is teeny. I haven’t seen my children in person once since spring and my parents twice when we met outside at a distance. It’s truly one of the more difficult times I’m my life. For whatever reasons people have to not follow basic public health recommendations it is hard for me to think that there are those who consider me and so many others expendable. Just let it run it’s coutse or stay home quivering in fear shouldn’t be the only options. If everyone pulled together for the greater good then we could get through this. (And I’m sorry for being ugly, but sometimes we have to delay gratification to get to that better place and I fear that there are a great many people who were never taught this lesson as children which is why we have so many people who don’t care much about helping others out by following the simple rules laid out to help other people who may be more likely to get sicker or worse than just you.)This. All. Of. This. People are so god damn selfish, it is sickening.
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Post by megop on Oct 23, 2020 0:51:00 GMT
Another benefit of flattening the curve is the availability of new and/or more effective treatments as time goes on. People who died in the first wave may not have died were they to have contracted COVID in December or later, simply due to more medical expertise with the disease and treatments such as Remdesivir (which just got FDA approval today) and others we don’t even know about yet. Being HIV+ and having AIDS was basically a death sentence in the 1980s; it is possible to live a long life with HIV now. When someone contracted HIV is a major factor in whether it was survivable because of how it was treated. There is every reason to think that medical experts around the world will continue to develop treatments to help manage various facets of COVID-19, but they need time to do it. YES!!!! This, this, this. Let's not forget the entire hydroxy thing. Absolutely debunked as covid positive treatment and a huge number of studies that you can see via clinicaltrails.gov have been cancelled over it. Guess what happened? Current patients with diseases who needed that drug such as acute RA patients, couldn't get it because it created a shortage being redirected to hot zone areas.
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Post by megop on Oct 23, 2020 0:53:22 GMT
The problem, I think, is that some people when they are using their scales to balance the risk of all this is that they forget or are not mindful of those who are dependent also on their choices. Like we depend on group immunity to protect babies before vaccines are able to be given, the vulnerable population is depending on other people to help keep them safe until a vaccine can be mass produced. I didn’t ask to be vulnerable. I didn’t do anything to make me this way. I can’t stay in all the time - I am single and I work, have to run to the store, get gas, whatever. Doc says you don’t want to catch it because for you it will be worse. My bubble is teeny. I haven’t seen my children in person once since spring and my parents twice when we met outside at a distance. It’s truly one of the more difficult times I’m my life. For whatever reasons people have to not follow basic public health recommendations it is hard for me to think that there are those who consider me and so many others expendable. Just let it run it’s coutse or stay home quivering in fear shouldn’t be the only options. If everyone pulled together for the greater good then we could get through this. (And I’m sorry for being ugly, but sometimes we have to delay gratification to get to that better place and I fear that there are a great many people who were never taught this lesson as children which is why we have so many people who don’t care much about helping others out by following the simple rules laid out to help other people who may be more likely to get sicker or worse than just you.)This. All. Of. This. People are so god damn selfish, it is sickening. You are not being ugly, and oh hell no are you expendable to me. You are IMPORTANT girl. And you deserve your fellow humanity to cooperate because we truly, most certainly, all in this together.
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Post by ghislaine on Oct 23, 2020 0:54:48 GMT
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Post by Merge on Oct 23, 2020 0:55:26 GMT
My depression and anxiety have most definitely been exacerbated by isolation and the other effects of all of this *waves hands around to encompass pretty much everything about this year*.
Rather than cozying up with my family and friends, I went back to my doctor and therapist and sought help in a way that wouldn’t get anyone sick. Particularly now that I’m back at school, I wouldn’t want to take the virus to anyone I know if I get it there.
AND I have no patience for teachers’ families (ahem) who freak out about school reopening AND continue to have gatherings with friends and family. You give all of us, with our valid concerns, a bad name. I have stated my concerns about the school environment here many times, but I’m at the point now where I can’t control that. What I can control is my social behavior and seeking help in dealing with my own mental health issues. As my principal pointed out earlier this week, she can’t tell us what to do outside of school, but she feels we have a responsibility to each other to make responsible choices. None of us can help that we have to be at school in tight spaces with lots of people. The least we can do is try hard not to be the one who brings the virus in.
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Post by megop on Oct 23, 2020 0:59:39 GMT
What truly fascinates me from national political leadership, is the supreme fail of expressing one key point that I personally think would cross party lines and this, the best way to protect the economy is to wear a mask, wash your paws and keep a distance. It's so freaking simple to me and such an opportunity lost, yet here are.
And thanks, you all. I know I'm on a soapbox, but I have to tell you, I'm tired. The nurses are tired. The doctors are tired. The leadership is tired. Yet, there's no way I'm not going into work tomorrow to fight the good fight to support the effort to serve. I really thank your indulgence today over it all. I don't vent often, so thank for letting me do so.
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Post by megop on Oct 23, 2020 1:03:39 GMT
My depression and anxiety have most definitely been exacerbated by isolation and the other effects of all of this *waves hands around to encompass pretty much everything about this year*. Rather than cozying up with my family and friends, I went back to my doctor and therapist and sought help in a way that wouldn’t get anyone sick. Particularly now that I’m back at school, I wouldn’t want to take the virus to anyone I know if I get it there. AND I have no patience for teachers’ families (ahem) who freak out about school reopening AND continue to have gatherings with friends and family. You give all of us, with our valid concerns, a bad name. I have stated my concerns about the school environment here many times, but I’m at the point now where I can’t control that. What I can control is my social behavior and seeking help in dealing with my own mental health issues. As my principal pointed out earlier this week, she can’t tell us what to do outside of school, but she feels we have a responsibility to each other to make responsible choices. None of us can help that we have to be at school in tight spaces with lots of people. The least we can do is try hard not to be the one who brings the virus in. Preach girl!!! I do want to say that one positive I'm seeing is the intense focus on investment into support for resilience and mindfulness tools for health care workers. Sadly, as a teacher, I don't think you'll get those from an industry level until later. We just got to start first. Kudos to you Merge, for taking care of you and staying mindful of your physical and mental health for sure. Hugs girl!
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Post by Darcy Collins on Oct 23, 2020 1:15:56 GMT
And Darcy, I get it when looking at statistics etc. But here is my view. Statistics will only make us feel better, or worse. People feel better? They will take risks. Feel worse? They won't. There is just too much unknown to rely on that type of data to make personal decisions in my mind. I go back to the basics. Practice, always, what medical professionals know offers you the best protection to not contract. Masks, hands, distance. Edited to add, and do your local health care workers a huge favor. Get your flu shot now. Just sayin. No worries - my entire family has already had their flu shot. I think the statistics do more than that though - I think the more we learn the better we can do to with our own policies - the OP is a good example - you really cannot look at Italy's statistics without factoring in their aged population. They're high mortality rate ISN'T because masks don't work, it's because they have a higher number of vulnerable population. I wish I was confident that a vaccine was imminent - but fear we will be living with this virus way longer than people will like. And I also agree with you that the masks backlash is idiotic - people want to both not have shutdowns but also not implement the easiest way to cut down on transmission.
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Post by megop on Oct 23, 2020 1:30:40 GMT
And Darcy, I get it when looking at statistics etc. But here is my view. Statistics will only make us feel better, or worse. People feel better? They will take risks. Feel worse? They won't. There is just too much unknown to rely on that type of data to make personal decisions in my mind. I go back to the basics. Practice, always, what medical professionals know offers you the best protection to not contract. Masks, hands, distance. Edited to add, and do your local health care workers a huge favor. Get your flu shot now. Just sayin. No worries - my entire family has already had their flu shot. I think the statistics do more than that though - I think the more we learn the better we can do to with our own policies - the OP is a good example - you really cannot look at Italy's statistics without factoring in their aged population. They're high mortality rate ISN'T because masks don't work, it's because they have a higher number of vulnerable population. I wish I was confident that a vaccine was imminent - but fear we will be living with this virus way longer than people will like. And I also agree with you that the masks backlash is idiotic - people want to both not have shutdowns but also not implement the easiest way to cut down on transmission. I hate to share, but from what I'm being told, "prepare your team for at least 2022."
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Oct 23, 2020 1:31:54 GMT
I appreciate you wanting to take care of your family, I really do. But you are part of a larger community and you bear responsibility there as well. Hopefully you care about that. You are not just putting your family at risk with your activities and your blaze attitude about being willing to put other people at risk is pretty upsetting. I know you probably don’t care, but at least acknowledge that you are putting others at risk and quit shrugging that off. It’s people’s lives we are talking about. And people are putting my family’s life at risk by sending their kids to in person school. Nothing I can do about it. I’m not going to stop doing the things I want to do when I’m exposed to risk through school anyway. If school can be open, I can do whatever I want. If it’s not safe, shut down school and I’ll have an actual choice to lock down. No way am I missing out on anything fun as long as risk is forced on my house anyway. I read an article about risk and it made a lot of sense. Just because kids are in school, or we have to go to work, or whatever we do—doesn’t mean that we should just let loose and do what we what. As someone said above, risk is cumulative (at least I think that is the right way to say it). We can reduce the risk that we encounter by making calculated risks. What is potentially worth the risk and what isn’t? That doesn’t mean that everything is worth it.
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Post by epeanymous on Oct 23, 2020 2:02:52 GMT
And people are putting my family’s life at risk by sending their kids to in person school. Nothing I can do about it. I’m not going to stop doing the things I want to do when I’m exposed to risk through school anyway. If school can be open, I can do whatever I want. If it’s not safe, shut down school and I’ll have an actual choice to lock down. No way am I missing out on anything fun as long as risk is forced on my house anyway. I read an article about risk and it made a lot of sense. Just because kids are in school, or we have to go to work, or whatever we do—doesn’t mean that we should just let loose and do what we what. As someone said above, risk is cumulative (at least I think that is the right way to say it). We can reduce the risk that we encounter by making calculated risks. What is potentially worth the risk and what isn’t? That doesn’t mean that everything is worth it. I have heard it referred to as a risk budget, but similar concept.
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paigepea
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Post by paigepea on Oct 23, 2020 2:06:37 GMT
Ugh. I’m sorry to hear the news about Europe. I’m in Canada and we were just removed from the safe list of countries allowed to enter the EU. We’re I am we’re not as bad as the rest of Canada but it will come. Yesterday our province officially declared us to be in our 2nd wave. We are 2 weeks post thanksgiving and today our cases went up a lot. Our positive rate jumped to 2.6%. Cases can be traced to gatherings over the thanksgiving weekend. Hopefully we can flatten the curve yet again.
We are currently allowed gatherings of 50 indoors. I can see that being reduced to 10 or 25 soon. We have a provincial election on the 24th. I think our province will wait until after that date and then hit us with new measures.
Luckily schools are not having major issues. The spread is from gatherings. I can stay inside all day without complaining if it means my kids can still go to school. They’re so happy to be back. I believe the province has said they’ll make school a priority. If schools were closed but bars were open I’d be pissed.
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paigepea
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Post by paigepea on Oct 23, 2020 2:20:33 GMT
I appreciate you wanting to take care of your family, I really do. But you are part of a larger community and you bear responsibility there as well. Hopefully you care about that. You are not just putting your family at risk with your activities and your blaze attitude about being willing to put other people at risk is pretty upsetting. I know you probably don’t care, but at least acknowledge that you are putting others at risk and quit shrugging that off. It’s people’s lives we are talking about. And people are putting my family’s life at risk by sending their kids to in person school. Nothing I can do about it. I’m not going to stop doing the things I want to do when I’m exposed to risk through school anyway. If school can be open, I can do whatever I want. If it’s not safe, shut down school and I’ll have an actual choice to lock down. No way am I missing out on anything fun as long as risk is forced on my house anyway. Sorry I don’t get this. Can’t your kids go to school in a safe way? Aren’t they being taught how to protect themselves? Aren’t you teaching them how to protect themselves out in the world? School closed last year because we didn’t know enough. Now we know that school can open in a safer way. That doesn’t mean we should be participating in risky behaviour and do whatever we want outside of school. In fact it means we should be more careful so that it doesn’t spread within our community and cause school to close again. Pandemic protocol states that schools are closed to get everyone’s attention. When our schools closed we thought ‘wow - I better pay attention’. It’s more of an alarm bell for society then because of risk that can’t be minimized. In retrospect I bet governments are pissed they closed schools because they’ve received so much push back in going back. I’m sorry this is your attitude. In my head I see it as part of the problem. But I agree that if bars and clubs are open it’s a signal that that type of behaviour is ok.
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Post by Merge on Oct 23, 2020 2:22:45 GMT
My depression and anxiety have most definitely been exacerbated by isolation and the other effects of all of this *waves hands around to encompass pretty much everything about this year*. Rather than cozying up with my family and friends, I went back to my doctor and therapist and sought help in a way that wouldn’t get anyone sick. Particularly now that I’m back at school, I wouldn’t want to take the virus to anyone I know if I get it there. AND I have no patience for teachers’ families (ahem) who freak out about school reopening AND continue to have gatherings with friends and family. You give all of us, with our valid concerns, a bad name. I have stated my concerns about the school environment here many times, but I’m at the point now where I can’t control that. What I can control is my social behavior and seeking help in dealing with my own mental health issues. As my principal pointed out earlier this week, she can’t tell us what to do outside of school, but she feels we have a responsibility to each other to make responsible choices. None of us can help that we have to be at school in tight spaces with lots of people. The least we can do is try hard not to be the one who brings the virus in. Preach girl!!! I do want to say that one positive I'm seeing is the intense focus on investment into support for resilience and mindfulness tools for health care workers. Sadly, as a teacher, I don't think you'll get those from an industry level until later. We just got to start first. Kudos to you Merge, for taking care of you and staying mindful of your physical and mental health for sure. Hugs girl! Same to you. I appreciate your perspective and can’t imagine how tired you must be. Re: mindfulness tools, etc. for teachers. We joke a lot that the district is always saying, make time for yourself, take care of yourself - but also please teach a full load in person AND provide robust asynchronous learning modules for those at home (two sets of plans and prep each week for six grade levels, plus grading for the online stuff), disinfect everything anyone touches after every class, do all the same paperwork and nonsense that you normally do, keep the kids safe and watch for signs of stress in them ... I’d like to know when we’re supposed to have time for mindfulness! I’m sure your situation is much the same. I’m very fortunate that my admin has made it clear that “surviving” is a sufficient and even laudable goal for our individual performance plans this year. Not every teacher is so lucky.
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Post by myshelly on Oct 23, 2020 2:33:41 GMT
And people are putting my family’s life at risk by sending their kids to in person school. Nothing I can do about it. I’m not going to stop doing the things I want to do when I’m exposed to risk through school anyway. If school can be open, I can do whatever I want. If it’s not safe, shut down school and I’ll have an actual choice to lock down. No way am I missing out on anything fun as long as risk is forced on my house anyway. I read an article about risk and it made a lot of sense. Just because kids are in school, or we have to go to work, or whatever we do—doesn’t mean that we should just let loose and do what we what. As someone said above, risk is cumulative (at least I think that is the right way to say it). We can reduce the risk that we encounter by making calculated risks. What is potentially worth the risk and what isn’t? That doesn’t mean that everything is worth it. School is not worth the risk. Disney is worth the risk. That’s my assessment 🤷🏻♀️
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Post by myshelly on Oct 23, 2020 2:35:09 GMT
And people are putting my family’s life at risk by sending their kids to in person school. Nothing I can do about it. I’m not going to stop doing the things I want to do when I’m exposed to risk through school anyway. If school can be open, I can do whatever I want. If it’s not safe, shut down school and I’ll have an actual choice to lock down. No way am I missing out on anything fun as long as risk is forced on my house anyway. Sorry I don’t get this. Can’t your kids go to school in a safe way? Aren’t they being taught how to protect themselves? Aren’t you teaching them how to protect themselves out in the world? School closed last year because we didn’t know enough. Now we know that school can open in a safer way. That doesn’t mean we should be participating in risky behaviour and do whatever we want outside of school. In fact it means we should be more careful so that it doesn’t spread within our community and cause school to close again. Pandemic protocol states that schools are closed to get everyone’s attention. When our schools closed we thought ‘wow - I better pay attention’. It’s more of an alarm bell for society then because of risk that can’t be minimized. In retrospect I bet governments are pissed they closed schools because they’ve received so much push back in going back. I’m sorry this is your attitude. In my head I see it as part of the problem. But I agree that if bars and clubs are open it’s a signal that that type of behaviour is ok. My kids are homeschooled. My DH is a teacher. If he has to take the risk of in person students, we will not stop doing things we want to do.
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paigepea
Drama Llama
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Posts: 5,609
Location: BC, Canada
Jun 26, 2014 4:28:55 GMT
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Post by paigepea on Oct 23, 2020 2:38:29 GMT
Sorry I don’t get this. Can’t your kids go to school in a safe way? Aren’t they being taught how to protect themselves? Aren’t you teaching them how to protect themselves out in the world? School closed last year because we didn’t know enough. Now we know that school can open in a safer way. That doesn’t mean we should be participating in risky behaviour and do whatever we want outside of school. In fact it means we should be more careful so that it doesn’t spread within our community and cause school to close again. Pandemic protocol states that schools are closed to get everyone’s attention. When our schools closed we thought ‘wow - I better pay attention’. It’s more of an alarm bell for society then because of risk that can’t be minimized. In retrospect I bet governments are pissed they closed schools because they’ve received so much push back in going back. I’m sorry this is your attitude. In my head I see it as part of the problem. But I agree that if bars and clubs are open it’s a signal that that type of behaviour is ok. My kids are homeschooled. My DH is a teacher. If he has to take the risk of in person students, we will not stop doing things we want to do. I feel you’ve missed the point. My husband is a dr in the ER and his office and is at risk every day yet I don’t feel like I have some free pass to do what I want to do because he is now allowed to see certain patients in person (before it had to be zoom). In fact I feel i should be safer in an effort to help protect him at work by reducing exposure / cases. I’m sorry for your community if that is the attitude circulating in your area.
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Post by mollycoddle on Oct 23, 2020 2:43:40 GMT
I am going from memory here, but didn’t something similar happen during the 1918 pandemic?
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Post by mollycoddle on Oct 23, 2020 2:50:25 GMT
The problem, I think, is that some people when they are using their scales to balance the risk of all this is that they forget or are not mindful of those who are dependent also on their choices. Like we depend on group immunity to protect babies before vaccines are able to be given, the vulnerable population is depending on other people to help keep them safe until a vaccine can be mass produced. I didn’t ask to be vulnerable. I didn’t do anything to make me this way. I can’t stay in all the time - I am single and I work, have to run to the store, get gas, whatever. Doc says you don’t want to catch it because for you it will be worse. My bubble is teeny. I haven’t seen my children in person once since spring and my parents twice when we met outside at a distance. It’s truly one of the more difficult times I’m my life. For whatever reasons people have to not follow basic public health recommendations it is hard for me to think that there are those who consider me and so many others expendable. Just let it run it’s coutse or stay home quivering in fear shouldn’t be the only options. If everyone pulled together for the greater good then we could get through this. (And I’m sorry for being ugly, but sometimes we have to delay gratification to get to that better place and I fear that there are a great many people who were never taught this lesson as children which is why we have so many people who don’t care much about helping others out by following the simple rules laid out to help other people who may be more likely to get sicker or worse than just you.) You’re not being “ugly;” you’re speaking the truth. It is disheartening to see so many selfish, thoughtless people in our communities. And really-to be so self-centered that you don’t give a damn about the vulnerable folks around you is so revealing and sad.
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Post by sam9 on Oct 23, 2020 2:50:27 GMT
And that’s exactly why I fear it is unstoppable. People are just too selfish. All over the world it seems.
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seaexplore
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,804
Apr 25, 2015 23:57:30 GMT
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Post by seaexplore on Oct 23, 2020 3:01:50 GMT
I read an article about risk and it made a lot of sense. Just because kids are in school, or we have to go to work, or whatever we do—doesn’t mean that we should just let loose and do what we what. As someone said above, risk is cumulative (at least I think that is the right way to say it). We can reduce the risk that we encounter by making calculated risks. What is potentially worth the risk and what isn’t? That doesn’t mean that everything is worth it. School is not worth the risk. Disney is worth the risk. That’s my assessment 🤷🏻♀️ Sigh. I’m sorry you feel that way but it’s what you feel and you’re entitled it it. Sadly others may suffer because of your choices.
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Post by megop on Oct 23, 2020 3:11:34 GMT
Sorry I don’t get this. Can’t your kids go to school in a safe way? Aren’t they being taught how to protect themselves? Aren’t you teaching them how to protect themselves out in the world? School closed last year because we didn’t know enough. Now we know that school can open in a safer way. That doesn’t mean we should be participating in risky behaviour and do whatever we want outside of school. In fact it means we should be more careful so that it doesn’t spread within our community and cause school to close again. Pandemic protocol states that schools are closed to get everyone’s attention. When our schools closed we thought ‘wow - I better pay attention’. It’s more of an alarm bell for society then because of risk that can’t be minimized. In retrospect I bet governments are pissed they closed schools because they’ve received so much push back in going back. I’m sorry this is your attitude. In my head I see it as part of the problem. But I agree that if bars and clubs are open it’s a signal that that type of behaviour is ok. My kids are homeschooled. My DH is a teacher. If he has to take the risk of in person students, we will not stop doing things we want to do. Well bully for you! Thanks for being a part of the exponential spread factor. And yea, I'm being sarcastic.
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Post by aj2hall on Oct 23, 2020 3:18:55 GMT
I read an article about risk and it made a lot of sense. Just because kids are in school, or we have to go to work, or whatever we do—doesn’t mean that we should just let loose and do what we what. As someone said above, risk is cumulative (at least I think that is the right way to say it). We can reduce the risk that we encounter by making calculated risks. What is potentially worth the risk and what isn’t? That doesn’t mean that everything is worth it. School is not worth the risk. Disney is worth the risk. That’s my assessment 🤷🏻♀️ That’s you’re opinion and that’s OK but be prepared for a lot of people to disagree with you. Your children are not in school, so it makes sense that school is not a priority for you. For many other families and children, school is a priority because they need child care, because children are fed, because children have the opportunity to socialize, because children are learning, because there are caring teachers and staff.
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seaexplore
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,804
Apr 25, 2015 23:57:30 GMT
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Post by seaexplore on Oct 23, 2020 3:24:22 GMT
Sorry I don’t get this. Can’t your kids go to school in a safe way? Aren’t they being taught how to protect themselves? Aren’t you teaching them how to protect themselves out in the world? School closed last year because we didn’t know enough. Now we know that school can open in a safer way. That doesn’t mean we should be participating in risky behaviour and do whatever we want outside of school. In fact it means we should be more careful so that it doesn’t spread within our community and cause school to close again. Pandemic protocol states that schools are closed to get everyone’s attention. When our schools closed we thought ‘wow - I better pay attention’. It’s more of an alarm bell for society then because of risk that can’t be minimized. In retrospect I bet governments are pissed they closed schools because they’ve received so much push back in going back. I’m sorry this is your attitude. In my head I see it as part of the problem. But I agree that if bars and clubs are open it’s a signal that that type of behaviour is ok. My kids are homeschooled. My DH is a teacher. If he has to take the risk of in person students, we will not stop doing things we want to do. I’m a teacher. We are headed back face to face. Does not mean I will be out and about living carefree and having all the fun. It actually means that I will go to work and come home (like I do pretty much every damn day) and hope to hell I haven’t brought it home to my family. I’m just gonna say it.... you are part of the reason we can’t have nice things.
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