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Post by Merge on Aug 1, 2021 13:52:57 GMT
Interesting analysis from The Atlantic this morning here: www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/08/vaccine-refusers-dont-want-blue-americas-respect/619627/?utm_term=2021-08-01T11%3A00%3A57&utm_medium=social&utm_content=edit-promo&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=the-atlantic&fbclid=IwAR3sVRonQ94y8Vyb8mfPLwxEmoagfsp5eSJ6jaWhjXLEQnEdvGFA2EcEpnc (Hopefully you have a free article left to read; if not, I'll put a few quotes below. I don't copy/paste entire articles in an attempt to respect copyright laws and author/journalist rights). This struck me as interesting because we hear frequently from vaccine holdouts on this board and elsewhere that the scorn of vaccinated America (which can be loosely conflated with blue America) is to blame for the attitude of holdouts. This analysis, by a sociology professor at Dartmouth, suggests otherwise. The article goes on to describe how people who are conned into something rarely want to admit they have been conned, but that when they are, "coolers" who are perceived as having good standing in their reference group are the most effective motivators to change belief/behavior while still saving face. So in this instance, having people like Hannity, DeSantis, and Ivey encourage vaccination is far more effective than any amount of "respect" from those who have been on board with Covid mitigation efforts, including vaccination, from the get go. The flip side of that, of course, is that those still participating in the con will turn on those who change their messaging, in this case calling them RINOs or other things that seek to exclude them from the reference group. Anyway. It's interesting (but infuriating, to me) from a sociological perspective. |
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Just T
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Post by Just T on Aug 1, 2021 14:00:25 GMT
Yes, interesting but infuriating is a good phrase.
I know one person who won't get vaccinated because she has had a couple of pregnancy losses and is still trying to become pregnant and is nervous about it. Other than her, every single person I know who hasn't been vaccinated and says they never will be are rabid Trump supporters who say they don't trust it or else they think the whole pandemic has been blown way out of proportion.
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J u l e e
Drama Llama
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Post by J u l e e on Aug 1, 2021 14:29:15 GMT
People are fascinating to me. And infuriating. I hate that this plays out the way it does, but that explanation makes so much sense. Getting vaccinated in disguise! Terribly sad.
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Just T
Drama Llama
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Post by Just T on Aug 1, 2021 14:31:21 GMT
People are fascinating to me. And infuriating. I hate that this plays out the way it does, but that explanation makes so much sense. Getting vaccinated in disguise! Terribly sad. So sad. I know someone who got vaccinated but didn't tell his significant other, who is very much against it. |
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Post by hookturnian on Aug 1, 2021 14:38:09 GMT
If only Trump had taken covid seriously, and got his base to take it seriously too. Instead here we are. And unfortunately the stupidity has spread to Australia too, thanks to Murdoch.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2021 14:49:11 GMT
Anyone can go back and read the many political threads on this board and see some of the reasons why vaccine hold-outs continue to hold-out. I don't believe it is fully the Blue's fault. There is an element of trust since the beginning, before COVID was classified as a pandemic, where many people could see the bad data going in causing bad data being used to make decisions for public policy which in turn eroded a lot of public trust.
Another quote from The Atlantic article....
It all boils down to a lack of trust and a respect for differences - which Blue's come across as having zero interest in building toward their Red neighbors.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Aug 1, 2021 15:09:07 GMT
Losing your life is at stake and happening.
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Post by peano on Aug 1, 2021 15:31:52 GMT
Anyone can go back and read the many political threads on this board and see some of the reasons why vaccine hold-outs continue to hold-out. I don't believe it is fully the Blue's fault. There is an element of trust since the beginning, before COVID was classified as a pandemic, where many people could see the bad data going in causing bad data being used to make decisions for public policy which in turn eroded a lot of public trust. Another quote from The Atlantic article.... It all boils down to a lack of trust and a respect for differences - which Blue's come across as having zero interest in building toward their Red neighbors. It is awfully difficult for me to build interest in my Red neighbors (in my case, family) when they just blissfully ignore/agree with/or do some other inexplicable mind-bend when faced with the like of Republican Rep Andrew Clyde of Georgia, who likened the insurrection on 1/6 to an ordinary tourist visit to the Capitol. I mean seriously, what are Democrats (and unaffiliated others still living on the reality plane) supposed to do with that? I tire of your (you and the general you) whiny baby, no one understands meeee routine. Start living in a fact-based world and I’ll be happy to talk. |
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Post by freecharlie on Aug 1, 2021 15:34:18 GMT
Losing your life is at stake and happening. But they don't believe that. These people have been taught by that asshole that they can interpret facts any way they want, including ignoring them completely. I gave my cousin facts. Actual facts with video evidence and she told me that she still thought that people should be able to come up with their own conclusions. On something she could SEE with her own eyes and Hear with her own ears, she still wanted to be able to dismiss it because...well it wasn't what she wanted to be true. For many unvaccinated around here, it is a badge of honor. It shows they are smart and aren't sheep or snowflakes like those damn dems who are ruining this country |
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Post by mollycoddle on Aug 1, 2021 15:42:07 GMT
Losing your life is at stake and happening. But they don't believe that. These people have been taught by that asshole that they can interpret facts any way they want, including ignoring them completely. I gave my cousin facts. Actual facts with video evidence and she told me that she still thought that people should be able to come up with their own conclusions. On something she could SEE with her own eyes and Hear with her own ears, she still wanted to be able to dismiss it because...well it wasn't what she wanted to be true. For many unvaccinated around here, it is a badge of honor. It shows they are smart and aren't sheep or snowflakes like those damn dems who are ruining this country That is exactly what I’m seeing here in Ohio. People are often disregarding science and facts because they have opinions. That is their right, but I don’t have to like it or respect it. I have more empathy for the folks who are afraid of the jab. Often they have underlying conditions. But the ones who outright refuse to consider it-well, this is on them. |
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Post by Merge on Aug 1, 2021 16:15:54 GMT
Anyone can go back and read the many political threads on this board and see some of the reasons why vaccine hold-outs continue to hold-out. I don't believe it is fully the Blue's fault. There is an element of trust since the beginning, before COVID was classified as a pandemic, where many people could see the bad data going in causing bad data being used to make decisions for public policy which in turn eroded a lot of public trust. Another quote from The Atlantic article.... It all boils down to a lack of trust and a respect for differences - which Blue's come across as having zero interest in building toward their Red neighbors. It is awfully difficult for me to build interest in my Red neighbors (in my case, family) when they just blissfully ignore/agree with/or do some other inexplicable mind-bend when faced with the like of Republican Rep Andrew Clyde of Georgia, who likened the insurrection on 1/6 to an ordinary tourist visit to the Capitol. I mean seriously, what are Democrats (and unaffiliated others still living on the reality plane) supposed to do with that? I tire of your (you and the general you) whiny baby, no one understands meeee routine. Start living in a fact-based world and I’ll be happy to talk. It’s like when the news spent so much time visiting cafes in the Midwest, trying to understand Trump voters. Hand wringing about how we got them so wrong. Was it white rage? Economic fears? In most cases, no. They’d simply divorced themselves from reality and considered it a sign of superior intelligence that they’d done so - because the leaders of their reference group led them to do so. What can blue America possibly do with that? |
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Post by freecharlie on Aug 1, 2021 16:26:44 GMT
It is awfully difficult for me to build interest in my Red neighbors (in my case, family) when they just blissfully ignore/agree with/or do some other inexplicable mind-bend when faced with the like of Republican Rep Andrew Clyde of Georgia, who likened the insurrection on 1/6 to an ordinary tourist visit to the Capitol. I mean seriously, what are Democrats (and unaffiliated others still living on the reality plane) supposed to do with that? I tire of your (you and the general you) whiny baby, no one understands meeee routine. Start living in a fact-based world and I’ll be happy to talk. It’s like when the news spent so much time visiting cafes in the Midwest, trying to understand Trump voters. Hand wringing about how we got them so wrong. Was it white rage? Economic fears? In most cases, no. They’d simply divorced themselves from reality and considered it a sign of superior intelligence that they’d done so - because the leaders of their reference group led them to do so. What can blue America possibly do with that? Exactly And I'll say something unpopular and would get me labeled as an elitist around here. Trump supporters are often, not always, uneducated and had an inferiority complex. They are using their made up world to feel better about themselves and need to stay ignorant for that to work |
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Gennifer
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Post by Gennifer on Aug 1, 2021 16:35:30 GMT
And I'll say something unpopular and would get me labeled as an elitist around here. Trump supporters are often, not always, uneducated and had an inferiority complex. They are using their made up world to feel better about themselves and need to stay ignorant for that to work My sister-in-law, a conservative Mormon Republican, said to me that she doesn’t understand why it has turned into such a political issue, and really feels like difference between the people who are getting vaccinated and staying unvaxxed is based a lot more on intelligence and education. And, yes, she’s vaccinated, even after having COVID herself. |
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Post by Merge on Aug 1, 2021 17:08:45 GMT
It’s like when the news spent so much time visiting cafes in the Midwest, trying to understand Trump voters. Hand wringing about how we got them so wrong. Was it white rage? Economic fears? In most cases, no. They’d simply divorced themselves from reality and considered it a sign of superior intelligence that they’d done so - because the leaders of their reference group led them to do so. What can blue America possibly do with that? Exactly And I'll say something unpopular and would get me labeled as an elitist around here. Trump supporters are often, not always, uneducated and had an inferiority complex. They are using their made up world to feel better about themselves and need to stay ignorant for that to work We’ve all seen the graphs showing that the more education you have, the more likely you are to vote for Democrats. (Before anyone rushes in with their story about a Trump-supporting PhD, I know. It’s “more likely,” not “guaranteed to.”) I bet there’s a similar correlation between vaccine status and education level. This is also why high ranking Republicans - even those who hold degrees from elite institutions - profess such dislike for formal education and want to destroy our public schools. People who are well educated tend not to vote for them. (And no, I’m not saying that being uneducated makes you stupid.) |
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Post by longtimenopea on Aug 1, 2021 18:11:58 GMT
Anyone can go back and read the many political threads on this board and see some of the reasons why vaccine hold-outs continue to hold-out. I don't believe it is fully the Blue's fault. There is an element of trust since the beginning, before COVID was classified as a pandemic, where many people could see the bad data going in causing bad data being used to make decisions for public policy which in turn eroded a lot of public trust. Another quote from The Atlantic article.... It all boils down to a lack of trust and a respect for differences - which Blue's come across as having zero interest in building toward their Red neighbors. I’m not sure lack of trust or lack of respect for differences is fully the issue. More correctly I would say that I ran out of desire to trust, and I ran out of capacity to respect. Like when I watch grown ass adults fight over where kids should pee. Or when I watched politicians stand on stage and say that our elders should be willing to die of covid to save our retirement plans. Or when I listen to people try to justify Breonna Taylor’s death or defend that cop that pushed a 75 year old peaceful protester to the ground or or or or or. I stopped believing people when they said “all lives matter” because they stopped acting like they believed that, and I don’t have a lot of capacity to respect the cruelty and hypocrisy that I see in conservative politics today. You can call it a red-blue issue if you want to, but the truth for me is I’m just weary of engaging in this type of dehumanizing discourse anymore. |
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Post by travelsoul on Aug 1, 2021 18:23:45 GMT
People are fascinating to me. And infuriating. I hate that this plays out the way it does, but that explanation makes so much sense. Getting vaccinated in disguise! Terribly sad. So sad. I know someone who got vaccinated but didn't tell his significant other, who is very much against it. That's me. I got vaccinated without telling my husband because I didn't want to fight with him. A couple weeks ago I had to go to urgent care because of a bad case of food poisoning and when they were taking me back the only thing my husband said was “dont let them give you that F-ing shot”. I started laughing and said “I got the F-ing shot months ago”. The nurse smiled at me so big. Surprisingly he hasn't even mentioned it sense. |
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Post by monklady123 on Aug 1, 2021 18:33:30 GMT
Anyone can go back and read the many political threads on this board and see some of the reasons why vaccine hold-outs continue to hold-out. I don't believe it is fully the Blue's fault. There is an element of trust since the beginning, before COVID was classified as a pandemic, where many people could see the bad data going in causing bad data being used to make decisions for public policy which in turn eroded a lot of public trust. Another quote from The Atlantic article.... It all boils down to a lack of trust and a respect for differences - which Blue's come across as having zero interest in building toward their Red neighbors. In the end what difference does it make whether or not I as a Democrat "respect the differences" of Republicans. Who cares? Bottom line is that everyone should get vaccinated FOR THE GOOD OF EVERYONE ELSE. But these anti-vaxxers don't care about the common good, they care only about themselves and "you can't tell me what to do!!" (said with a pout like some of my kindergartners at school) -- and even though they love to try to make legislation that tells women what they can do with their bodies. But that's a tangent. The point is that they just do not care. So I have zero respect for them or anything they try to say. |
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pyccku
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Post by pyccku on Aug 1, 2021 19:05:02 GMT
At some point, it just doesn't matter. You don't want to get vaccinated because it's a way to "own the libs" - I don't want you to die, but if you've (LITERALLY) chosen that hill to die on, I can't really do anything to stop you. I'm only sad about the people who will be dragged along with you - the children who can't be vaccinated and may lose a parent/aunt/uncle/grandparent; the doctors and nurses who will have to go through the trauma of losing yet another patient who could have been saved; the spouses who will be left behind; the people who are immunocompromised and will be exposed to the virus through you. You - well, you made your choice.
It's sad that it's become a political issue, it really is. I think if TFG had not gone so far in pushing it as a hoax we might have seen more sense from the ones who are holding on to that idea despite 600K dead bodies to prove otherwise. But they've dug their heels in and can't go back on it now because admitting that it's real and deadly means admitting that maybe TFG didn't have all the answers, or even worse - was lying to them.
There are a lot of people who just don't want to hear what they don't want to hear. They aren't going to listen, and it doesn't matter how bad it gets - it won't change their minds, even if they are gasping for air in an ICU somewhere. They'll insist it's a hoax, just a flu, anything but covid. I want to know why these people even go to the hospital and use up the resources if this is the case - it's a hoax? Then go home and stop playing a crisis actor. It's the flu? Go to Walgreen's and get some Theraflu. No need to be in the hospital bed for these things.
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Post by pixiechick on Aug 1, 2021 19:47:36 GMT
At some point, it just doesn't matter. You don't want to get vaccinated because it's a way to "own the libs" - I don't want you to die, but if you've (LITERALLY) chosen that hill to die on, I can't really do anything to stop you. I'm only sad about the people who will be dragged along with you - the children who can't be vaccinated and may lose a parent/aunt/uncle/grandparent; the doctors and nurses who will have to go through the trauma of losing yet another patient who could have been saved; the spouses who will be left behind; the people who are immunocompromised and will be exposed to the virus through you. You - well, you made your choice. It's sad that it's become a political issue, it really is. I think if TFG had not gone so far in pushing it as a hoax we might have seen more sense from the ones who are holding on to that idea despite 600K dead bodies to prove otherwise. But they've dug their heels in and can't go back on it now because admitting that it's real and deadly means admitting that maybe TFG didn't have all the answers, or even worse - was lying to them. There are a lot of people who just don't want to hear what they don't want to hear. They aren't going to listen, and it doesn't matter how bad it gets - it won't change their minds, even if they are gasping for air in an ICU somewhere. They'll insist it's a hoax, just a flu, anything but covid. I want to know why these people even go to the hospital and use up the resources if this is the case - it's a hoax? Then go home and stop playing a crisis actor. It's the flu? Go to Walgreen's and get some Theraflu. No need to be in the hospital bed for these things. It's sad that it's become a political issue, it really is. I think if TFG had not gone so far in pushing it as a hoax we might have seen more sense from the ones who are holding on to that idea despite 600K dead bodies to prove otherwise. But they've dug their heels in and can't go back on it now because admitting that it's real and deadly means admitting that maybe TFG didn't have all the answers, or even worse - was lying to them. Well, there goes that narrative. Trump never said Covid was a Hoax. Both Kamala and Joe were lying to YOU about that. |
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Post by mollycoddle on Aug 1, 2021 20:07:43 GMT
And now these recent outbreaks are…somebody else’s fault. Anyone want to guess who? Of course, this claim is from Fox’s noted bigmouth and box wine connoisseur, but still.
They are acting like indignant toddlers who have been served broccoli for dinner.
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Post by Merge on Aug 1, 2021 20:42:58 GMT
At some point, it just doesn't matter. You don't want to get vaccinated because it's a way to "own the libs" - I don't want you to die, but if you've (LITERALLY) chosen that hill to die on, I can't really do anything to stop you. I'm only sad about the people who will be dragged along with you - the children who can't be vaccinated and may lose a parent/aunt/uncle/grandparent; the doctors and nurses who will have to go through the trauma of losing yet another patient who could have been saved; the spouses who will be left behind; the people who are immunocompromised and will be exposed to the virus through you. You - well, you made your choice. It's sad that it's become a political issue, it really is. I think if TFG had not gone so far in pushing it as a hoax we might have seen more sense from the ones who are holding on to that idea despite 600K dead bodies to prove otherwise. But they've dug their heels in and can't go back on it now because admitting that it's real and deadly means admitting that maybe TFG didn't have all the answers, or even worse - was lying to them. There are a lot of people who just don't want to hear what they don't want to hear. They aren't going to listen, and it doesn't matter how bad it gets - it won't change their minds, even if they are gasping for air in an ICU somewhere. They'll insist it's a hoax, just a flu, anything but covid. I want to know why these people even go to the hospital and use up the resources if this is the case - it's a hoax? Then go home and stop playing a crisis actor. It's the flu? Go to Walgreen's and get some Theraflu. No need to be in the hospital bed for these things. It's sad that it's become a political issue, it really is. I think if TFG had not gone so far in pushing it as a hoax we might have seen more sense from the ones who are holding on to that idea despite 600K dead bodies to prove otherwise. But they've dug their heels in and can't go back on it now because admitting that it's real and deadly means admitting that maybe TFG didn't have all the answers, or even worse - was lying to them. Well, there goes that narrative. Trump never said Covid was a Hoax. Both Kamala and Joe were lying to YOU about that. How about a “fake news media conspiracy?” www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/10/26/coronavirus-trump-claims-the-worsening-us-outbreak-is-a-fake-news-media-conspiracy-even-as-hospitalizations-rise.htmlI guess as long as you can deny the actual word hoax, you feel like Trump always took the virus seriously and encouraged others to do so with his words and actions? That he never politicized it? But that’s clearly not the case. www.npr.org/sections/latest-updates-trump-covid-19-results/2020/10/02/919432383/how-trump-has-downplayed-the-coronavirus-pandemicYou are exactly the person described in the Atlantic article. You’ve been conned, and you will contort yourself into ever greater lengths to defend your leaders and try to save face. It would be sad if it didn’t mean that hundreds of thousands have died needlessly. |
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Post by Merge on Aug 1, 2021 20:43:59 GMT
And now these recent outbreaks are…somebody else’s fault. Anyone want to guess who? Of course, this claim is from Fox’s noted bigmouth and box wine connoisseur, but still. They are acting like indignant toddlers who have been served broccoli for dinner. Oh yeah. They have to blame us because to do otherwise is to admit they’ve been conned. |
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Gennifer
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Post by Gennifer on Aug 1, 2021 20:45:45 GMT
Well, there goes that narrative. Trump never said Covid was a Hoax. Both Kamala and Joe were lying to YOU about that. Trump may not have used the actual phrase “Covid is a hoax” but everything he did say, and his own actions, absolutely downplayed the seriousness of the pandemic and controlled the narrative that led to many people not getting the vaccine today. Even after his presidency, with his refusal to endorse or encourage the vaccine, and keeping his own vaccination a secret, he continues to perpetuate the myth that it’s not something concerning. But you already know that. |
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Just T
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Post by Just T on Aug 1, 2021 20:49:01 GMT
Trump may not have used the actual phrase “Covid is a hoax” but everything he did say, and his own actions, absolutely downplayed the seriousness of the pandemic and controlled the narrative that led to many people not getting the vaccine today. And let's not forget that Bob Woodward has him ON TAPE saying he downplayed it. On purpose. We all heard it repeatedly. |
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Post by lucyg on Aug 1, 2021 21:07:38 GMT
At some point, it just doesn't matter. You don't want to get vaccinated because it's a way to "own the libs" - I don't want you to die, but if you've (LITERALLY) chosen that hill to die on, I can't really do anything to stop you. I'm only sad about the people who will be dragged along with you - the children who can't be vaccinated and may lose a parent/aunt/uncle/grandparent; the doctors and nurses who will have to go through the trauma of losing yet another patient who could have been saved; the spouses who will be left behind; the people who are immunocompromised and will be exposed to the virus through you. You - well, you made your choice. It's sad that it's become a political issue, it really is. I think if TFG had not gone so far in pushing it as a hoax we might have seen more sense from the ones who are holding on to that idea despite 600K dead bodies to prove otherwise. But they've dug their heels in and can't go back on it now because admitting that it's real and deadly means admitting that maybe TFG didn't have all the answers, or even worse - was lying to them. There are a lot of people who just don't want to hear what they don't want to hear. They aren't going to listen, and it doesn't matter how bad it gets - it won't change their minds, even if they are gasping for air in an ICU somewhere. They'll insist it's a hoax, just a flu, anything but covid. I want to know why these people even go to the hospital and use up the resources if this is the case - it's a hoax? Then go home and stop playing a crisis actor. It's the flu? Go to Walgreen's and get some Theraflu. No need to be in the hospital bed for these things. It's sad that it's become a political issue, it really is. I think if TFG had not gone so far in pushing it as a hoax we might have seen more sense from the ones who are holding on to that idea despite 600K dead bodies to prove otherwise. But they've dug their heels in and can't go back on it now because admitting that it's real and deadly means admitting that maybe TFG didn't have all the answers, or even worse - was lying to them. Well, there goes that narrative. Trump never said Covid was a Hoax. Both Kamala and Joe were lying to YOU about that. conveniently posted some of the links I was going to give you. But here’s one more. www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-calls-coronavirus-democrats-new-hoax-n1145721He did everything in his power to downplay the seriousness of the virus, because the stock market was always more important to him than people’s lives. He mocked the experts whenever they gave advice that conflicted with his own. He freakin’ convinced the most idiotic of his followers to drink Lysol or bleach or whatever it was. He got himself vaccinated without telling his followers. And then he literally tried to overthrow our government. For the love of God, please stop defending him. He is indefensible. |
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Post by freecharlie on Aug 1, 2021 21:11:44 GMT
At some point, it just doesn't matter. You don't want to get vaccinated because it's a way to "own the libs" - I don't want you to die, but if you've (LITERALLY) chosen that hill to die on, I can't really do anything to stop you. I'm only sad about the people who will be dragged along with you - the children who can't be vaccinated and may lose a parent/aunt/uncle/grandparent; the doctors and nurses who will have to go through the trauma of losing yet another patient who could have been saved; the spouses who will be left behind; the people who are immunocompromised and will be exposed to the virus through you. You - well, you made your choice. It's sad that it's become a political issue, it really is. I think if TFG had not gone so far in pushing it as a hoax we might have seen more sense from the ones who are holding on to that idea despite 600K dead bodies to prove otherwise. But they've dug their heels in and can't go back on it now because admitting that it's real and deadly means admitting that maybe TFG didn't have all the answers, or even worse - was lying to them. There are a lot of people who just don't want to hear what they don't want to hear. They aren't going to listen, and it doesn't matter how bad it gets - it won't change their minds, even if they are gasping for air in an ICU somewhere. They'll insist it's a hoax, just a flu, anything but covid. I want to know why these people even go to the hospital and use up the resources if this is the case - it's a hoax? Then go home and stop playing a crisis actor. It's the flu? Go to Walgreen's and get some Theraflu. No need to be in the hospital bed for these things. It's sad that it's become a political issue, it really is. I think if TFG had not gone so far in pushing it as a hoax we might have seen more sense from the ones who are holding on to that idea despite 600K dead bodies to prove otherwise. But they've dug their heels in and can't go back on it now because admitting that it's real and deadly means admitting that maybe TFG didn't have all the answers, or even worse - was lying to them. Well, there goes that narrative. Trump never said Covid was a Hoax. Both Kamala and Joe were lying to YOU about that. oh for shit's sake. It doesn't matter if he didn't use the word hoax. He said (paraphrased but there are quotes to back it): It's no worse than the flu It will go away on its own We are doing a great job of containing it People just get better. They even go to work and get better Calm down this will go away It's not bad. I haven't seen bad This is going to go away without a vaccine Testing is overrated We have high numbers because we have a lot of testing I disagree with the CDC Many of those cases are young people that would heal in a day” “They have the sniffles, and we put it down as a test” “If you look at children, children are almost - and I would almost say definitely - but almost immune from this disease.” Slow the testing down 2020 “Take your hat off to the young because they have a hell of an immune system. But [the virus] affects virtually nobody. It’s an amazing thing. By the way, open your schools everybody, open your schools.” We've prevailed (this was last may) So he may not have used the word "hoax" but with all the fake news and other crap he spews, the word itself, to me, doesn't matter |
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Post by freecharlie on Aug 1, 2021 21:12:35 GMT
Shoot, I should have just kept reading
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2021 21:14:08 GMT
The only thing Blue America has to do with the situation is the superiority complex constantly being thrown over the fence towards those who don't agree with them. The judgements. The Bias'. The contempt and condemnation. Then trying to force Blue policies down everyone's throat.
As for this vaccine - we all have to face the fact the messaging from those in science haven't done a very good job of getting their point across to those that are non-science people. The start of the communication failure falls in Trump's lap. Biden hasn't done much better and today there are still too many sources of information coming too fast to keep a straight story intact that public can grab on and sink their teeth into on what is and isn't true or even explain the concept that science changes, advice will be changing as this virus goes along, and that guidance will constantly be ebbing and flowing based on variables X, Y and Z. There are those who are educated who understand what is happening better than others but government has to speak to ALL populations and meet them on their level - not yours, mine or anyone else's - and the PR sucks no matter which way you look at it.
As for the tone in the country regarding vaccines? We all have skin in the game for the negativity. The name calling. The insults. The accusations. The eye rolling. The judgements. Everything. If we all looked ourselves in the mirror and asked if we are proud of how we have conducted ourselves to our fellow humans in this situation - and we were honest - we cannot say we have behaved the best we can. We tell and teach our children to be better without living up to the same words we dictate to our younger charges and that is what shameful. We have forgotten to live by example and this board is its comments (not necessarily this thread but many others) are proof.
You aren't going to change or convince another person to believe another line of thinking until you get your own house in order. If you keep putting ugly out there you will keep getting ugly back. To change the outside we have to start change within ourselves. So take all the articles you want, all the tweets, posts, interviews, etc. and instead of blaming others for what they are not doing that goes along with what you think the world should be look at your own self and adjust your own attitudes and bias.
That is how we will start to turn this thing around.
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Post by hopemax on Aug 1, 2021 21:17:55 GMT
At some point, it just doesn't matter. You don't want to get vaccinated because it's a way to "own the libs" - I don't want you to die, but if you've (LITERALLY) chosen that hill to die on, I can't really do anything to stop you. On another forum I participate on, the people who identify as Republican or Libertarian are the ones who have had it up to here with their anti-vax compatriots. They are the ones that are calling to "just let these people die," "make them pay the full cost of their hospital care (even if there is no way they could)," "make them pay 200x premiums as everyone else," "they should get unpaid sick leave if they have to be off work." It's the so-called "libs" who have to talk them down, and remind them that just because people are being idiots doesn't mean that you can't also be empathetic to their suffering and not be so punitive. Yet in the end, you know red America won't see it that way. While I'm sure there is a fair amount of snark and schadenfreude, they won't see that at the end of the day, one group really doesn't want you to die, be seriously incapacitated, go bankrupt and another group couldn't care less, all while saying blue America doesn't care about them. |
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Post by Merge on Aug 1, 2021 21:32:42 GMT
The only thing Blue America has to do with the situation is the superiority complex constantly being thrown over the fence towards those who don't agree with them. The judgements. The Bias'. The contempt and condemnation. Then trying to force Blue policies down everyone's throat. As for this vaccine - we all have to face the fact the messaging from those in science haven't done a very good job of getting their point across to those that are non-science people. The start of the communication failure falls in Trump's lap. Biden hasn't done much better and today there are still too many sources of information coming too fast to keep a straight story intact that public can grab on and sink their teeth into on what is and isn't true or even explain the concept that science changes, advice will be changing as this virus goes along, and that guidance will constantly be ebbing and flowing based on variables X, Y and Z. There are those who are educated who understand what is happening better than others but government has to speak to ALL populations and meet them on their level - not yours, mine or anyone else's - and the PR sucks no matter which way you look at it. As for the tone in the country regarding vaccines? We all have skin in the game for the negativity. The name calling. The insults. The accusations. The eye rolling. The judgements. Everything. If we all looked ourselves in the mirror and asked if we are proud of how we have conducted ourselves to our fellow humans in this situation - and we were honest - we cannot say we have behaved the best we can. We tell and teach our children to be better without living up to the same words we dictate to our younger charges and that is what shameful. We have forgotten to live by example and this board is its comments (not necessarily this thread but many others) are proof. You aren't going to change or convince another person to believe another line of thinking until you get your own house in order. If you keep putting ugly out there you will keep getting ugly back. To change the outside we have to start change within ourselves. So take all the articles you want, all the tweets, posts, interviews, etc. and instead of blaming others for what they are not doing that goes along with what you think the world should be look at your own self and adjust your own attitudes and bias. That is how we will start to turn this thing around. Were you able to read the article I posted? |
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