Debate opinions?

We wouldn't need to. But he isn't that age. He is going on 82. He isn't just running for how he looks today but what people expect over the next 4 years. Everyone can see how 8 decades treats the body in their parents, grandparents or even in the mirror. I was boosted by his State of the Union performance. He may again bounce back for future speeches but the damage has been done. The tape of last night will play in ads until election day. He was already trailing in the polls, in all but one battleground state. He did nothing to improve his situation last night. The only thing he can do for the country is to withdraw and throw his support behind a younger moderate Democrat.

I agree. He needs to step aside and do the right thing for the country. If he stays on the ballot at the point, it's selfish. IMHO He can not win. And those saying they will vote for him knowing Kamala will take his place --- why not save the country some headache and run her or someone else now? 

Let me just add. Four years ago this past April 19th. I was sick, they thought a cold. On Antibiotics and Prednisone... I walked to the car, my friend took me to the ER, wheeled me in and that was the last we saw each other until she picked up on May 21, 2020.
I came to in a Covid room..sometime later. I do not remember to this day the first week I was there. I do remember being poked etc for another week in there. I was then moved to rehab where I spent 3 weeks getting up and going, walking etc.

It seems I was sicker then I have ever been in all of my now 80+ years. Still not walking so well, but mobile going out to the mail box and my apartment.

My mind is fine and has been since before I left the hospital. (Thinking others here might not agree)

They are still undecided if I had Covid, my pulmonologist says I did, he assures that I did also have pneumonia. Had I not gone in when I did I would probably not be alive today. I wish they delve into Biden's immediate health today to see if he has more then a cold. Maybe they had given him cold meds and he reacted negatively to them. That is not unusual with old folks!

I know right, a convicted felon should step aside and do the right thing for the country. If he stays on the ballot at the point, it's selfish. 

Was last night a shit show, absolutely.  It's unfortunate that what is being lost in all of this is that one candidate stood up there for 90 minutes and LIED THE ENTIRE TIME.  I'll take old over a proven liar everyday of the week.  It was the responsibility of the moderators to fact check the lies and they didn't.

The thoughts on this thread are making my head explode so I'll probably back out but wow, if this thread is any indication of how real American people think, JFC the American people are just low IQ stupid. 

And yeah, there are no "undecided" voters.  There are just people who want an out from saying they are going to vote for trump.

How have the last four years been horrible?

*Inflation here is lower than in any of our peer countries, and what remains has been shown to be mostly the effects of corporate greed.
*Our economy's Covid recovery has also been better than any of our peer countries.
*Millions of Americans have benefitted from an end to their predatory student loan payments, allowing them to put those funds into savings and/or into our economy.
*Democrats passed a massive infrastructure bill that has benefitted the entire country to the point where Republicans who voted against it are now trying to claim credit in their communities.
*Biden has supported Ukraine against the Russians. If you can't see the benefit in that, get your head out of your ass.
*A lot more. Do your research.

So what, exactly, has been so terrible about the last four years? We have more poor immigrants coming to our border due to deteriorating conditions in their own country? Yes, we do. The fact that we've failed to pass legislation to both keep out criminals and assist those who deserve our help is entirely on Republicans, who didn't want to give Biden that win.

If you'd like a view into the America Trump intends, you need only to come to Texas, which is quickly devolving into a theocratic state. Republicans have:

*made great strides toward destroying our public schools, including many excellent schools that communities love, through underfunding and putting up far-right candidates for school boards. Those candidates have presided over the decimation of school and classroom libraries, a return to a culture of fear and repression for LGBTQ students, the erasure of minority culture and history from the curriculum, and the silencing of even any discussion about climate change and vaccines in our classrooms.
*further defunded special education, state police, foster care, Medicaid, rural healthcare, and a variety of other necessary services.
*made strides toward sending millions of taxpayer dollars to religious schools.
*participated in the coverup of sex abuse in churches.
*taken away women's rights to bodily autonomy and self-determination.
*wasted millions of tax dollars fighting the federal government's attempts to tamp down the fascist laws being passed here.
*discarded decades of progress on civil rights in hiring by outlawing any equity and DEI initiatives.
*attempted to impose one religious sect's belief system on all public school students.
*raised taxes on the middle and working class while handing more tax breaks to the wealthy and corporate entities.
*propped up the owners/profiteers of a rickety electrical grid that is cut off from other grids and is prone to failure in times of emergency.
*gerrymandered and suppressed the opposition vote well out of proportionate representation, while wasting millions to uncover voter fraud that didn’t exist.
*removed democratic control of the state’s largest school district, disenfranchising millions of voters in our majority minority city.

So much more that I don't have time to type right now.


Is that where you think America needs to be? Really? If so, then definitely vote for Trump. Make sure to decide whether you prefer the red robe and white hat of the handmaids, the green of the wives, or the blue of the domestic servants when you do, because that's where Trump wants to take us. I only wish that was hyperbole. Be sure to let your LGBTQ and Black/Brown friends know how little you value them and their safety while you're at it.

If we'd had someone we thought was more likely to win, we would have been parading them before now. Remember, Biden didn't even want to run this time in the first place. The consensus was that Kamala couldn't win on her own, so I don't see that changing. She was lower rated that a lot of others. It basically restarts the whole debate on who Dems would nominate, and I don't see that working out any better this time around.

I like Biden. I just sure, sure wish last night hadn't happened.

Look the debate was horrible. Biden should step aside. But make no mistake. I will vote for Biden even if it's a Weekend at Bernie's situation. We cannot sit by and let Trump take over. Our country as we know it will end as soon as he is sworn in. All marginalized people (women, LGBTQ, minorities, disabled, elderly, poor) will live with the damage of a 2nd Trump presidency for decades and beyond. I feel that it is my duty to vote in support of all the people who are in danger with a 2nd Trump presidency. Not voting, or voting 3rd party isn't going to help.

Lawrence O’Donnell…

“Washington was filled with panic talk of replacing the Democratic nominee at exactly this time in 1992.

Gallop poll June 1992

Perot 39%

Bush 31%

Clinton 25%”

I agree with Mark Cuban.


“ His performance was awful. But so was Trump’s. Biden was feeble. Trump couldn’t directly answer a single question and lied with every response.

The question is what features voters believe make a better POTUS : Feeble, Capable and Ethical vs Vigorous, Unethical and Incapable of telling the truth.

I’ll vote ethical every time.

The reality is Joe wasn’t capable last night of debating someone who only lies. He doesn’t have the energy or ability to shout him down, hold him accountable and laugh at Trump’s responses.

Joe could have held his own against a candidate that actually can discuss policy. But that wasn’t the challenge last night and Joe wasn’t prepared or capable of dealing with Donald and his style.

That aside, there is no way you could listen to Donald last night and come away feeling confident that Trump has the ability to go deeper than his practiced soundbites. He repeated himself often and never directly answered the moderator’s questions

There was nothing that would give anyone confidence he could hold his own in any complicated situation. Or that he could intellectually go toe to toe with any world leader or adversary.

In fact, his non answers about J6 and election acceptance should scare every American about his interest in upholding his oath to the constitution

That doesn’t make Biden’s performance any less awful.
But, he answered the questions he was asked, even if the presentation was underwhelming. And we have the last 3 plus years and of his being POTUS with out his getting laughed or smirked at, no tell-alls or leaks discussing his incompetence. No former advisors or cabinet members saying they won’t vote for him.

That gives me confidence that in the normal duties of the Presidency he can hold his own and do the job.

Unfortunately, This election is not about policies. It’s about soundbites, social media and who delivers them better and the algorithms that deliver them to voters.

Trump is far better than Biden at soundbites and marketing. That’s reality

For that reason , I’m also open to the discussion to replace Biden and/or Harris.

It’s not like Trump’s approval ratings are high. They aren’t. It could be an open door to find someone that immediately out performs Trump.

Beyond the loyalty of his hard core 30 % or so, I think a large number of people who currently support him would walk away to a better alternative.

But if that doesn’t happen, I’m still voting for Biden, the ethical candidate who unquestionably stands by his oath and puts country over self interest.”



Except that I think that it’s too late to replace anyone.

Anyone who would vote for Trump because they think Biden is too "progressive" deserves exactly what they will get. Biden has supported Ukraine against Putin. Trump has said upfront that he'll let Putin do whatever he wants. But supposedly Trump is the stronger candidate?

And it galls me to no end that the moderates Biden was nominated to attract would now turn on him. If that's what they're going to do, we could have had a real progressive president. Liz Warren is hale and hearty. For that matter, Buttigieg or Beto or any of the other Democratic candidates would have been great. But no, we had to cave to flighty moderates who apparently can't see the difference between fascism and not fascism because an old man getting over a cold sounded feeble.

This country is too stupid to keep a democratic republic, apparently.

I will plant this here..

Honest question. How to they determine the winner of a debate? (We were def the losers)

The one who didn't come to debate but instead to regurgitate his rhetoric and lies from is rally scripts, lather rinse repeat word salad. No need to prepare to debate, not what he's there for. #trumprally Words, lots of words. Not many relevant or truthful ones, but they sure flow freely. From rally, after rally, after rally...I dint think he even had to think much, just parrot same ole same ole BS.

Or the one who actually prepared (probably too much) but is slow in the chaos actually trying answer the question but presents badly and seems stumbling to answer and is and looks old as hell.

I think in the end, vote for the guy (and side) that will take you where you want to go. I for one don't want to go back in time.

But that doesn't answer the question. Who wins? Lots of words regardless, or less with more substance and truth?

Another thing that struck me funny/not funny during the debate was when Trump said the world doesn't respect and hates us now that he's no longer in office.

Funny as I just came across an old video yesterday shortly before the debate (daily show?) showing "Trump's home town NYC celebrating his loss" (in 2020) or wait it's not just NYC...and went in to show other crowds of celebration in cities across the USA.
Oh, wait, it continued, not just the US and went in to show fireworks and celebratiins in cities around the world. (Paris? London?)

TLDR I just found it ironic when Trump said exact opposite, that the world grieved when he lost. Those visions of celebrations and fireworks after his defeat immediately flashed in my head.