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Post by christine58 on May 3, 2015 18:20:01 GMT
Burned down businesses. Looted stores. Assaulting police. Loss of jobs by innocent people by rioters. That's what saddens and sickens me. Businesses and people's livelihoods have been destroyed by a bunch of thugs...yeah I said it...thugs are criminals in my book and I don't care if they are green, black, white or blue. Protest if you want---have at it--but to destroy businesses whose owners had NOTHING to do with this SUCKS. I would love it if those who looted and burned down stores etc had to help rebuild them with physical labor. The mentality of those involved bothers me immensely.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2015 18:56:00 GMT
Burned down businesses. Looted stores. Assaulting police. Loss of jobs by innocent people by rioters. That's what saddens and sickens me. Businesses and people's livelihoods have been destroyed by a bunch of thugs...yeah I said it...thugs are criminals in my book and I don't care if they are green, black, white or blue. Protest if you want---have at it--but to destroy businesses whose owners had NOTHING to do with this SUCKS. I would love it if those who looted and burned down stores etc had to help rebuild them with physical labor. The mentality of those involved bothers me immensely. Yes but still they are a minority of those protesting. Absolutely and completely wrong to loot and riot but the majority did not do so. Those were opportunists not protestors.
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GiantsFan
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Post by GiantsFan on May 3, 2015 20:06:12 GMT
I'm hoping I can word this correctly as I don't want to come across as insensitive to this issue, but since three of the six officers were black themselves, do you (general you) think this particular case is motivated by race or an abuse of power? I absolutely believe racism does still exist, I'm just wondering about this particular case. Regardless, what happened to him was horrible and I'm glad something is being done. I was wondering the same thing, but didn't know to put it.
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Post by christine58 on May 3, 2015 20:32:42 GMT
That's what saddens and sickens me. Businesses and people's livelihoods have been destroyed by a bunch of thugs...yeah I said it...thugs are criminals in my book and I don't care if they are green, black, white or blue. Protest if you want---have at it--but to destroy businesses whose owners had NOTHING to do with this SUCKS. I would love it if those who looted and burned down stores etc had to help rebuild them with physical labor. The mentality of those involved bothers me immensely. Yes but still they are a minority of those protesting. Absolutely and completely wrong to loot and riot but the majority did not do so. Those were opportunists not protestors. I agree...big difference from being a protestor and an opportunist/criminal.
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Olan
Pearl Clutcher
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Jul 13, 2014 21:23:27 GMT
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Post by Olan on May 3, 2015 20:49:29 GMT
I'm hoping I can word this correctly as I don't want to come across as insensitive to this issue, but since three of the six officers were black themselves, do you (general you) think this particular case is motivated by race or an abuse of power? I absolutely believe racism does still exist, I'm just wondering about this particular case. Regardless, what happened to him was horrible and I'm glad something is being done. I was wondering the same thing, but didn't know to put it. I know I've said this a lot in this thread but I think the real issue is with the value placed on Gray's (and others) life. Anyone placed in a position of power black or white needs to value the lives of those who they are tasked with protecting and serving otherwise we have situations like this. Peelian principle may be the solution because the good cop turning in the bad cop thing doesn't seem to be working.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2015 21:58:35 GMT
No, we aren't losing ground. If you look back at what African Americans dealt with that was legal and sanctioned in the 50s, 60s, and 70s, clearly we have made progress. Now, when a black man is arrested and dies in custody, there is immediate outrage and vocal demonstrations from both whites and blacks. And those who protest peacefully aren't in danger of being fire-hosed or shot or beaten. However, today, just as there were then, some want immediate fixes and become violent when those fixed don't appear fast enough. I am afraid that the result will be similar to what happened with the Black Panthers, for example. Although they started with noble goals and made progress, when they turned to violence against their own members, the party fell apart and lost support from its own constituents. That is what I see as happening today with the Baltimore riots. Even though there are both a legitimate reason to protest and serious problems with the police there, when the protests devolved into rioting and looting, the attention shifts away from where it needs to be. And I respectfully disagree. Racial issues are getting worse. I'm seeing more and more blatant open racism than I ever have lately. And even peaceful protesting has encountered issues. I'm not saying the rioting is right at all. But the majority of the protests have been peaceful. People seem to forget that. No one has forgotten that. Talking about the horror and destruction that rioters have caused to people's property and lives does not negate the fact that there are peaceful protesters who care about human life, their communities and want to see changes. Just as talking about the police who abuse their power does not negate the fact that most of the police force are good and care about human life, their communities and their responsibilities to them.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2015 3:18:06 GMT
Burned down businesses. Looted stores. Assaulting police. Loss of jobs by innocent people by rioters. That's what saddens and sickens me. Businesses and people's livelihoods have been destroyed by a bunch of thugs...yeah I said it...thugs are criminals in my book and I don't care if they are green, black, white or blue. Protest if you want---have at it--but to destroy businesses whose owners had NOTHING to do with this SUCKS. I would love it if those who looted and burned down stores etc had to help rebuild them with physical labor. The mentality of those involved bothers me immensely. ![:yeahthat:](//storage.proboards.com/5645536/images/yrGoHMAelQz8f2Qt0sjb.jpg) What's sickening to me is that they let it happen. I read somewhere they're reviewing surveillance tape and camera footage and are trying to identify as many as they can to hold them accountable. I also wish they would make them responsible for physically rebuilding and helping those lives that they ruined.
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Post by Peace Sign on May 4, 2015 15:38:00 GMT
When you focus on the rioting, you're taking away from the main issue, the FIRST issue. Freddie gray was stopped for no reason, and now he's dead. And people are still lamenting about the rioters.
Oh and by the way, while the murderers of Freddie gray posted their $150,000 to $350,000 bail, one 18 year old kid who threw a brick into a police car is rotting in jail because he can't raise the HALF a million dollars in bail. THAT is systemic racism. And it's rampant in Baltimore.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2015 20:43:39 GMT
When you focus on the rioting, you're taking away from the main issue, the FIRST issue. Freddie gray was stopped for no reason, and now he's dead. And people are still lamenting about the rioters. Oh and by the way, while the murderers of Freddie gray posted their $150,000 to $350,000 bail, one 18 year old kid who threw a brick into a police car is rotting in jail because he can't raise the HALF a million dollars in bail. THAT is systemic racism. And it's rampant in Baltimore. Bail is based on flight risk, not color of your skin.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on May 4, 2015 20:53:31 GMT
When you focus on the rioting, you're taking away from the main issue, the FIRST issue. Freddie gray was stopped for no reason, and now he's dead. And people are still lamenting about the rioters. Oh and by the way, while the murderers of Freddie gray posted their $150,000 to $350,000 bail, one 18 year old kid who threw a brick into a police car is rotting in jail because he can't raise the HALF a million dollars in bail. THAT is systemic racism. And it's rampant in Baltimore. I bet that those who have to raise any amount of bail money find it not fair or unbalanced. Bail is by flight risk and by what potential harm one could to to himself or another person.
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Post by Peace Sign on May 4, 2015 21:04:20 GMT
Oh good grief. Yes, in your perfect white world you're right.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2015 21:19:12 GMT
Oh good grief. Yes, in your perfect white world you're right. In Baltimore half the police force is black, it's run by a black state's attorney, a black city council, a black police chief. In Baltimore's world, they have like minded individuals running things. People who know their issues, go to bat for them and make the policies for Baltimore.
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Post by Peace Sign on May 4, 2015 21:26:17 GMT
Then why did the city pay out millions of dollars to other victims of a "rough ride"? And what risk is the 18 year old, who has plans for college by the way, to flee? What would he flee with? They have very little money. It's absurd. A brick at a car is a worse crime than the officers? If you think policy and black city council members make much difference, you're wrong. Like I said before, it goes much deeper. Systemic disadvantages that will take generations to offset.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2015 21:35:43 GMT
Then why did the city pay out millions of dollars to other victims of a "rough ride"? And what risk is the 18 year old, who has plans for college by the way, to flee? What would he flee with? They have very little money. It's absurd. A brick at a car is a worse crime than the officers? If you think policy and black city council members make much difference, you're wrong. Like I said before, it goes much deeper. Systemic disadvantages that will take generations to offset. In Ferguson it was blamed on something as simple as too many whites running things. Here you have a black run city and suddenly "it goes much deeper".
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Post by Peace Sign on May 4, 2015 21:38:19 GMT
It goes much deeper in both places. Just count your lucky stars that you hit the jackpot and have white skin. You're a woman...don't you think that pay between men and women should be equal? Or are you satisfied with 73 cents on the dollar because many of your government officials are women?
The president is black...so I guess we're done!
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2015 21:40:01 GMT
Sara*H posted the link to a very good article the other day. I'll see if I can find the link. here's the thread with the link to the article
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2015 21:44:23 GMT
Then why did the city pay out millions of dollars to other victims of a "rough ride"? And what risk is the 18 year old, who has plans for college by the way, to flee? What would he flee with? They have very little money. It's absurd. A brick at a car is a worse crime than the officers? If you think policy and black city council members make much difference, you're wrong. Like I said before, it goes much deeper. Systemic disadvantages that will take generations to offset. In Ferguson it was blamed on something as simple as too many whites running things. Here you have a black run city and suddenly "it goes much deeper". It absolutely does go deeper. It would behoove you to read the article that Sarah posted.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2015 22:04:31 GMT
In Ferguson it was blamed on something as simple as too many whites running things. Here you have a black run city and suddenly "it goes much deeper". It absolutely does go deeper. It would behoove you to read the article that Sarah posted. It does seem to go deeper actually, but not in the vein that it's all white people's fault trying to oppress. I just finished an article explaining the catch-22 black leaders allow their communities to dictate they stay in. I have some errands to run then I'll read that article Sarah linked.
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Post by Peace Sign on May 4, 2015 22:14:23 GMT
Nobody said its all white peoples fault...not NOW anyways. Most everyone I know isn't overtly racist. But, there are lots of good people who subconscious preconceptions about blacks, period. Myself included, although I am actively working to change that.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2015 22:20:09 GMT
Nobody said its all white peoples fault...not NOW anyways. Most everyone I know isn't overtly racist. But, there are lots of good people who subconscious preconceptions about blacks, period. Myself included, although I am actively working to change that. I actually watched a video that spoke to that the other day. I'll post it when I have more time.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 4:13:29 GMT
In Ferguson it was blamed on something as simple as too many whites running things. Here you have a black run city and suddenly "it goes much deeper". It absolutely does go deeper. It would behoove you to read the article that Sarah posted. Very interesting. A lot of information in there about "procedures". Clarly they need to be investigated and reformed. It still doesn't justify the riots, looting and the injuring of cops. And bail is still based on flight risk, not the color of your skin.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 12:55:34 GMT
When you focus on the rioting, you're taking away from the main issue, the FIRST issue. Freddie gray was stopped for no reason, and now he's dead. And people are still lamenting about the rioters. Oh and by the way, while the murderers of Freddie gray posted their $150,000 to $350,000 bail, one 18 year old kid who threw a brick into a police car is rotting in jail because he can't raise the HALF a million dollars in bail. THAT is systemic racism. And it's rampant in Baltimore. Wrong...he was not "stopped for no reason". They were on a patrol in a high crime/known drug activity area. Freddie, who was known to them, since he had been arrested 18 times in the past, saw them, and then turned and ran. A fellow officer has been on the news, stating that the officers saw Freddie exchange something with another person just prior to him running. The Supreme Court has ruled that running from the police in a high crime area IS sufficient cause for the police to detain and investigate you. Freddie GAVE them reason to chase him. And if he then resisted when they caught him, that is sufficient to arrest him. There is zero indication from the coroners report that Freddie had ANY other injuries on his body, apart from the spinal injury and then the contusion on his face from the bolt in the back of the van. They did not beat him, in any way, when they arrested him. No one knows yet when or how the spine injury occurred. The video of him being loaded in the back of the van is not damning, either. Yes, he appeared to be "limp", but if we had a dollar for every time a suspect went limp when my husband was arresting them and trying to put them in the van or the cruiser - we'd have a nice chunk of change. Suspects do it ALL the time. ALL the time, i'm telling you. How are they supposed to know if he really was injured, or just being a jackass to make things difficult for them. Perhaps he had done it many times in the past, during his other 18 arrests. Who knows? As to the conditions in Baltimore and other inner cities - whose fault is that? Who has run those cities for the last four decades. Almost exclusively Democrats. Progressive social policies NO NOT WORK, they only harm. Welfare and subsidies have only made poverty and misery worse. Baltimore recieved more than 1 Billion from the "stimulus" bill, and they have nothing to show for it. The inner city is still poverty stricken and crime ridden and black men are killing other black men daily. The police are there, doing a very thankless and difficult job of trying to STOP all of that. And they get nothing but hatred, and bricks thrown at their heads for it. But when the community refuses to look inward and police itself and its young people, refuses to encourage its young people to work, no matter how menial the job, when they don't stand up to the drugs and the out of wedlock births - well then the cops are just trying to plug the hole in the Titanic with a spit wad, aren't they? Thomas Sowell, the smartest man in America, wrote an outstanding article: Race, politics and liesAn Excerpt: "You cannot take any people, of any color, and exempt them from the requirements of civilization -- including work, behavioral standards, personal responsibility and all the other basic things that the clever intelligentsia disdain -- without ruinous consequences to them and to society at large.
Non-judgmental subsidies of counterproductive lifestyles are treating people as if they were livestock, to be fed and tended by others in a welfare state -- and yet expecting them to develop as human beings have developed when facing the challenges of life themselves.
One key fact that keeps getting ignored is that the poverty rate among black married couples has been in single digits every year since 1994. Behavior matters and facts matter, more than the prevailing social visions or political empires built on those visions." And that is exactly what progressive democrat policies have done, since LBJ famously said "I'll have these ni**ers voting democrat for the next 200 years." Welfare has robbed generations of the ability to be fully functioning members of society and led directly to where we are today. With a black POTUS who condones the rioting, encourages the outrage, and condemns the police without facts, Every single time, instead of being the leader he should be. One last bit of irony - the very people who are screaming about police brutality and police tactics, have, and will again, run out and vote for every democrat on the ticket who promises them more government and more assistance. More government necessarily means more police. The more laws you have, the more enforcement you need. Therefore you are voting to have more of the same damn thing you are screaming about. Idiots.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 14:16:26 GMT
When you focus on the rioting, you're taking away from the main issue, the FIRST issue. Freddie gray was stopped for no reason, and now he's dead. And people are still lamenting about the rioters. Oh and by the way, while the murderers of Freddie gray posted their $150,000 to $350,000 bail, one 18 year old kid who threw a brick into a police car is rotting in jail because he can't raise the HALF a million dollars in bail. THAT is systemic racism. And it's rampant in Baltimore. Wrong...he was not "stopped for no reason". They were on a patrol in a high crime/known drug activity area. Freddie, who was known to them, since he had been arrested 18 times in the past, saw them, and then turned and ran. A fellow officer has been on the news, stating that the officers saw Freddie exchange something with another person just prior to him running. The Supreme Court has ruled that running from the police in a high crime area IS sufficient cause for the police to detain and investigate you. Freddie GAVE them reason to chase him. And if he then resisted when they caught him, that is sufficient to arrest him. There is zero indication from the coroners report that Freddie had ANY other injuries on his body, apart from the spinal injury and then the contusion on his face from the bolt in the back of the van. They did not beat him, in any way, when they arrested him. No one knows yet when or how the spine injury occurred. The video of him being loaded in the back of the van is not damning, either. Yes, he appeared to be "limp", but if we had a dollar for every time a suspect went limp when my husband was arresting them and trying to put them in the van or the cruiser - we'd have a nice chunk of change. Suspects do it ALL the time. ALL the time, i'm telling you. How are they supposed to know if he really was injured, or just being a jackass to make things difficult for them. Perhaps he had done it many times in the past, during his other 18 arrests. Who knows? As to the conditions in Baltimore and other inner cities - whose fault is that? Who has run those cities for the last four decades. Almost exclusively Democrats. Progressive social policies NO NOT WORK, they only harm. Welfare and subsidies have only made poverty and misery worse. Baltimore recieved more than 1 Billion from the "stimulus" bill, and they have nothing to show for it. The inner city is still poverty stricken and crime ridden and black men are killing other black men daily. The police are there, doing a very thankless and difficult job of trying to STOP all of that. And they get nothing but hatred, and bricks thrown at their heads for it. But when the community refuses to look inward and police itself and its young people, refuses to encourage its young people to work, no matter how menial the job, when they don't stand up to the drugs and the out of wedlock births - well then the cops are just trying to plug the hole in the Titanic with a spit wad, aren't they? Thomas Sowell, the smartest man in America, wrote an outstanding article: Race, politics and liesAn Excerpt: "You cannot take any people, of any color, and exempt them from the requirements of civilization -- including work, behavioral standards, personal responsibility and all the other basic things that the clever intelligentsia disdain -- without ruinous consequences to them and to society at large.
Non-judgmental subsidies of counterproductive lifestyles are treating people as if they were livestock, to be fed and tended by others in a welfare state -- and yet expecting them to develop as human beings have developed when facing the challenges of life themselves.
One key fact that keeps getting ignored is that the poverty rate among black married couples has been in single digits every year since 1994. Behavior matters and facts matter, more than the prevailing social visions or political empires built on those visions." And that is exactly what progressive democrat policies have done, since LBJ famously said "I'll have these ni**ers voting democrat for the next 200 years." Welfare has robbed generations of the ability to be fully functioning members of society and led directly to where we are today. With a black POTUS who condones the rioting, encourages the outrage, and condemns the police without facts, Every single time, instead of being the leader he should be. One last bit of irony - the very people who are screaming about police brutality and police tactics, have, and will again, run out and vote for every democrat on the ticket who promises them more government and more assistance. More government necessarily means more police. The more laws you have, the more enforcement you need. Therefore you are voting to have more of the same damn thing you are screaming about. Idiots. And there she blows again. Lynlam you are a sad sick person. I feel sorry for you that you have that much hatred in your heart.
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Post by annabella on May 5, 2015 14:33:21 GMT
I'm hoping I can word this correctly as I don't want to come across as insensitive to this issue, but since three of the six officers were black themselves, do you (general you) think this particular case is motivated by race or an abuse of power? I absolutely believe racism does still exist, I'm just wondering about this particular case. Regardless, what happened to him was horrible and I'm glad something is being done. I was wondering the same thing, but didn't know to put it. When police officers have an area they patrol they get to know the residents, so most likely they knew Freddie, knew he was a dealer, and when he took off running they assumed he was running because he had something illegal on him.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 14:46:36 GMT
Wrong...he was not "stopped for no reason". They were on a patrol in a high crime/known drug activity area. Freddie, who was known to them, since he had been arrested 18 times in the past, saw them, and then turned and ran. A fellow officer has been on the news, stating that the officers saw Freddie exchange something with another person just prior to him running. The Supreme Court has ruled that running from the police in a high crime area IS sufficient cause for the police to detain and investigate you. Freddie GAVE them reason to chase him. And if he then resisted when they caught him, that is sufficient to arrest him. There is zero indication from the coroners report that Freddie had ANY other injuries on his body, apart from the spinal injury and then the contusion on his face from the bolt in the back of the van. They did not beat him, in any way, when they arrested him. No one knows yet when or how the spine injury occurred. The video of him being loaded in the back of the van is not damning, either. Yes, he appeared to be "limp", but if we had a dollar for every time a suspect went limp when my husband was arresting them and trying to put them in the van or the cruiser - we'd have a nice chunk of change. Suspects do it ALL the time. ALL the time, i'm telling you. How are they supposed to know if he really was injured, or just being a jackass to make things difficult for them. Perhaps he had done it many times in the past, during his other 18 arrests. Who knows? As to the conditions in Baltimore and other inner cities - whose fault is that? Who has run those cities for the last four decades. Almost exclusively Democrats. Progressive social policies NO NOT WORK, they only harm. Welfare and subsidies have only made poverty and misery worse. Baltimore recieved more than 1 Billion from the "stimulus" bill, and they have nothing to show for it. The inner city is still poverty stricken and crime ridden and black men are killing other black men daily. The police are there, doing a very thankless and difficult job of trying to STOP all of that. And they get nothing but hatred, and bricks thrown at their heads for it. But when the community refuses to look inward and police itself and its young people, refuses to encourage its young people to work, no matter how menial the job, when they don't stand up to the drugs and the out of wedlock births - well then the cops are just trying to plug the hole in the Titanic with a spit wad, aren't they? Thomas Sowell, the smartest man in America, wrote an outstanding article: Race, politics and liesAn Excerpt: "You cannot take any people, of any color, and exempt them from the requirements of civilization -- including work, behavioral standards, personal responsibility and all the other basic things that the clever intelligentsia disdain -- without ruinous consequences to them and to society at large.
Non-judgmental subsidies of counterproductive lifestyles are treating people as if they were livestock, to be fed and tended by others in a welfare state -- and yet expecting them to develop as human beings have developed when facing the challenges of life themselves.
One key fact that keeps getting ignored is that the poverty rate among black married couples has been in single digits every year since 1994. Behavior matters and facts matter, more than the prevailing social visions or political empires built on those visions." And that is exactly what progressive democrat policies have done, since LBJ famously said "I'll have these ni**ers voting democrat for the next 200 years." Welfare has robbed generations of the ability to be fully functioning members of society and led directly to where we are today. With a black POTUS who condones the rioting, encourages the outrage, and condemns the police without facts, Every single time, instead of being the leader he should be. One last bit of irony - the very people who are screaming about police brutality and police tactics, have, and will again, run out and vote for every democrat on the ticket who promises them more government and more assistance. More government necessarily means more police. The more laws you have, the more enforcement you need. Therefore you are voting to have more of the same damn thing you are screaming about. Idiots. Wow! Lynlam is quoting a self proclaimed Marxist! But but wasn't it Lynlam who was railing against President Obama because some of his "known associates" are Marxist? Well Lynlam lableled them as Marxists. Wow just wow!
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Post by Peace Sign on May 5, 2015 15:08:35 GMT
Really disgusting. Black communities don't want your welfare! they need and deserve the same opportunities as everybody else.
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Post by blondiec47 on May 5, 2015 15:29:44 GMT
Really disgusting. Black communities don't want your welfare! they need and deserve the same opportunities as everybody else. You're right and that's the problem. Throwing welfare money at the poor is NOT helping, but that is what the government keeps doing. If the government would get out of the way, then maybe more small businesses could thrive and hire people. The poor need to feel good about themselves and we need a new approach.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 20:28:03 GMT
When you focus on the rioting, you're taking away from the main issue, the FIRST issue. Freddie gray was stopped for no reason, and now he's dead. And people are still lamenting about the rioters. Oh and by the way, while the murderers of Freddie gray posted their $150,000 to $350,000 bail, one 18 year old kid who threw a brick into a police car is rotting in jail because he can't raise the HALF a million dollars in bail. THAT is systemic racism. And it's rampant in Baltimore. We should be lamenting about the rioters, the rioting will have long-term impact. Hundreds of millions of dollars in destruction. Over 200 minority owned businesses and some homes were lost. Many of them had no insurance. Money was lost, jobs lost, livelihoods lost, homes lost, access to medicine lost, accessible retail lost. Over 100 cops injured, one in critical condition. That is all certainly something to lament.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 21:04:47 GMT
When you focus on the rioting, you're taking away from the main issue, the FIRST issue. Freddie gray was stopped for no reason, and now he's dead. And people are still lamenting about the rioters. Oh and by the way, while the murderers of Freddie gray posted their $150,000 to $350,000 bail, one 18 year old kid who threw a brick into a police car is rotting in jail because he can't raise the HALF a million dollars in bail. THAT is systemic racism. And it's rampant in Baltimore. We should be lamenting about the rioters, the rioting will have long-term impact. Hundreds of millions of dollars in destruction. Over 200 minority owned businesses and some homes were lost. Many of them had no insurance. Money was lost, jobs lost, livelihoods lost, homes lost, access to medicine lost, accessible retail lost. Over 100 cops injured, one in critical condition. That is all certainly something to lament. I don't know but it seems to me we should solve the problem that is causing the protests. Protests that give looters an excuse to loot.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 21:26:29 GMT
I believe they're in the process of working on that.
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