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Post by monicad on May 23, 2015 20:03:12 GMT
I am not looking at this as "celebrity gossip" which seems mostly harmless. I am viewing this in the light from a fairly recent incident that occurred to the family of another person here. That situation was mostly 'groundless' but raised the double standard that exists today between teen girls and teen boys. I knew there was one for adults, I did not know how vicious is the one for children and teens. This incident with the younger Mr. Dugger happened when he was 14, fourteen, that's 10 plus 4. I think lots of us have kids that did some really stupid, but at the time either felt good or seemed like a good idea, or "just happened." Frankly any parent of a boy could really say there but for... I believe from the articles and such the girls were not much older or younger too. So, who is really at fault and aren't the girls just as guilty? So at what age does it stop? Or start? What is fair game for those that are set to not be satisfied with tarnishing or trashing, but outright destroy any possible adult livelihood and relationships. I think someone "broke the seal" on a juvenile record, and that person ought to be criminally charged. Those that are "breathless" over what could come out next disgust me. I pray that NO ONE you know is ever treated in a similar manner. And I pray for anyone that has boys, this could very, very easily happen to your precious child too. What happened to another really has opened my eyes to the intolorrence. Note: I do not condone what happened, seems all the parties involved had long ago settled the matter. There was punishment and discipline at the time, so why "pop up" now nearly what, 15 years later??? What the FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU? I'll second that.
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on May 23, 2015 20:13:52 GMT
yes I made an assumption they were close to the age of the boy. And? I think some WERE close in age. What if they ALL were close in age? Why would that justify your immediate conclusion that five sisters - hell, even one sister - are deserving of blame? And why in the world - after reading other people's responses about how they were abused - would you think to write "but I didn't abuse you"? And the admonition about "revisiting." It's as if you don't even want to hear the stories. Why is that?
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peabay
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,895
Jun 25, 2014 19:50:41 GMT
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Post by peabay on May 23, 2015 20:14:53 GMT
I know that you wrote before you knew enough about it, Sandy, but that you continue to defend this family defies belief. Sometimes, even if we like and respect someone and are bothered that they are under attack, we have to look at the facts and say: "wow. I guess I was wrong about them." These people allowed their child, who they knew was molesting other children, likely including their own, to essentially go scot free. It's honestly no different than the Catholic hierarchy allowing priests to continue to work in parishes and just quietly move them around. You know what? It's actually worse: their own daughters were abused and they did nothing substantive. It shows the value girls have to them (zero) and the depravity of their belief system. I understand wanting to still believe in them and like them - but at some point you just have to say: "this really is all kinds of messed up and I can't defend them any more." This is police report, fact based stuff. There is no defense.
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Olan
Pearl Clutcher
Enter your message here...
Posts: 4,050
Jul 13, 2014 21:23:27 GMT
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Post by Olan on May 23, 2015 20:15:45 GMT
Where is the solidarity amongst women? How can you have a vagina and side with the fucking perpetrators? I am just floored by the viewpoints some people have the gall to share.
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NoWomanNoCry
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,856
Jun 25, 2014 21:53:42 GMT
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Post by NoWomanNoCry on May 23, 2015 20:22:02 GMT
yes I made an assumption they were close to the age of the boy. And? I think some WERE close in age. What if they ALL were close in age? Why would that justify your immediate conclusion that five sisters - hell, even one sister - are deserving of blame? And why in the world - after reading other people's responses about how they were abused - would you think to write "but I didn't abuse you"? And the admonition about "revisiting." It's as if you don't even want to hear the stories. Why is that? No shit! I'm sorry I don't give 2 shits how far apart or how close in age his sister may have been to him what he did was wrong no matter what age his victims were!!!! Sure 14yr olds make stupid mistakes...drinking..drugs...NOT MOLESTING YOUR BROTHERS/SISTERS. ETA- Ameliabloomer- sorry my rant wasn't directed to you I quoted you because I agreed with you then I went off on other crap Sandy posted. Sorry lol
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 7, 2024 23:32:18 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2015 20:25:36 GMT
I know that you wrote before you knew enough about it, Sandy, but that you continue to defend this family defies belief. Sometimes, even if we like and respect someone and are bothered that they are under attack, we have to look at the facts and say: "wow. I guess I was wrong about them." These people allowed their child, who they knew was molesting other children, likely including their own, to essentially go scot free. It's honestly no different than the Catholic hierarchy allowing priests to continue to work in parishes and just quietly move them around. You know what? It's actually worse: their own daughters were abused and they did nothing substantive. It shows the value girls have to them (zero) and the depravity of their belief system. I understand wanting to still believe in them and like them - but at some point you just have to say: "this really is all kinds of messed up and I can't defend them any more." This is police report, fact based stuff. There is no defense. I wish I had your way with words.
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Post by Chips on May 23, 2015 20:31:42 GMT
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Post by gypsymama on May 23, 2015 20:35:25 GMT
i've read some crazy shit over my years as a pea, but this really just floors me. there are a handfull of posters i expect to be batshit crazy, but this one... blah i don't even know anything civil to say at this point
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theshyone
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,423
Jun 26, 2014 12:50:12 GMT
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Post by theshyone on May 23, 2015 21:11:42 GMT
So to have a record, and therefore have a record to be sealed, he would have had to be charged, tried and convicted? Or found innocent? The fact that the statute of limitations came into play preventing him from ever even being charged means he has no right to having the records sealed? Or did his family apply to have the interviews sealed? I still ill maintain my point of view that the victims are the girls. That they were not only victimized by him, but by their parents, church, and the law. I'm sickened that numerous people knew about this and no one protected those girls.
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Nanner
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,987
Jun 25, 2014 23:13:23 GMT
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Post by Nanner on May 23, 2015 21:41:51 GMT
Sandy, what you wrote on this thread is probably the worst response I have ever read in my time on 2Peas or on Refupeas. I honestly cannot believe what I read.
That person, 14 or not, MOLESTED FIVE GIRLS. Repeatedly. There is no possible excuse for that. And he has a 5 year old daughter and another daughter due this summer.
Josh Duggar is a disgusting piece of shit. As are his parents.
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Post by pb on May 23, 2015 22:16:04 GMT
I was four years old when I got some special attention from a 15 year old male babysitter. I suppose that some people would say I was at fault in some way as he asked me if I wanted to play a game and I said yes. I think that is pretty warped view of the situation. I have stayed very away from Dugger supporters in the last few days because of the comments. In my opinion none of these girls are to blame.
As for letting it go, in my experience this isn't easy. This had a profound effect on me including who I choose as a husband. Luckily I went for safe and steady. This isn't something that you can put to the wayside. It is something you have to go through (not the abuse but the healing) which takes in most cases an enormous amount of hard work and support. Nothing that has come forth has indicated that the girls have had that opportunity.
My eldest is close to age as Josh...if this had been him, very intensive therapy would have been our answer for all involved from the best professionals and experts we could find. And if those experts had said separate the children for good we would have tried our damnest to make that happen even if we had to maintain two households and traded parents in and out.
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Post by AussieMeg on May 23, 2015 22:46:26 GMT
Sandy, what you wrote on this thread is probably the worst response I have ever read in my time on 2Peas or on Refupeas. I honestly cannot believe what I read.
I have to agree with this. And sadly, it is going to colour my opinion of her for the rest of my Pea life.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 7, 2024 23:32:18 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2015 22:54:31 GMT
I said this in the other thread, but it bears repeating here too: Let's take into account her years of history here of rational thought and logic. Let's take into account her words that she "made an assumption that they were close in age", which more than likely, the logic in that continues on that she thought they were both willing participants in a playing doctor scenario, not a molesting scenario. I'm taking into account her history and her words, to not assume BuckeyeSandy has been hiding a sick twisted mentality all this time and has suddenly morphed into a demented person who blames a 4 year old for being a victim of molestation. I mean come on.
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Post by greenlegume on May 23, 2015 23:20:56 GMT
I said this in the other thread, but it bears repeating here, too:
You do whatever you like.
I'm not a spreadsheet keeper, but right now I almost wish I was. I've never really thought of her past posts as being rich with logic or reason, but if that's your impression, more power to you. I've also seen BuckeyeSandy post some other outrageous shit in the past*, and this just seals the deal for me. When people show me who they are, I believe them.
*and of course now I can't remember specifics, but even if I had irrefutable proof of other shit she said someone would try to excuse her actions. What she said today is out there and it totally speaks for itself.
Her follow up post makes it abundantly clear that she is refusing to look at the facts in this case. She's still calling the whole thing malicious gossip. I mean, come on.
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Post by coffeetalk on May 23, 2015 23:37:11 GMT
I said this in the other thread, but it bears repeating here too: Let's take into account her years of history here of rational thought and logic. Let's take into account her words that she "made an assumption that they were close in age", which more than likely, the logic in that continues on that she thought they were both willing participants in a playing doctor scenario, not a molesting scenario. I'm taking into account her history and her words, to not assume BuckeyeSandy has been hiding a sick twisted mentality all this time and has suddenly morphed into a demented person who blames a 4 year old for being a victim of molestation. I mean come on. Well, you know what? As a new member here who is not familiar with her ''years of history here of rational thought and logic'', I took her words at face value. Words have weight and meaning and I take people at their word. I agree with the others who said she should have had the facts in hand and a clear picture of the events before making insensitive remarks on a public message board.
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Post by rebelyelle on May 23, 2015 23:37:35 GMT
I said this in the other thread, but it bears repeating here too: Let's take into account her years of history here of rational thought and logic. Let's take into account her words that she "made an assumption that they were close in age", which more than likely, the logic in that continues on that she thought they were both willing participants in a playing doctor scenario, not a molesting scenario. I'm taking into account her history and her words, to not assume BuckeyeSandy has been hiding a sick twisted mentality all this time and has suddenly morphed into a demented person who blames a 4 year old for being a victim of molestation. I mean come on. I could understand your plea for the benefit of the doubt - after the first post. But remember that Sandy came in and CLARIFIED herself, and her second post was no better than the first. Her opinion is clear, and it's inexcusably horrid.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 7, 2024 23:32:18 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2015 0:13:23 GMT
I said this in the other thread, but it bears repeating here too: Let's take into account her years of history here of rational thought and logic. Let's take into account her words that she "made an assumption that they were close in age", which more than likely, the logic in that continues on that she thought they were both willing participants in a playing doctor scenario, not a molesting scenario.I'm taking into account her history and her words, to not assume BuckeyeSandy has been hiding a sick twisted mentality all this time and has suddenly morphed into a demented person who blames a 4 year old for being a victim of molestation. I mean come on.
I could understand your plea for the benefit of the doubt - after the first post. But remember that Sandy came in and CLARIFIED herself, and her second post was no better than the first. Her opinion is clear, and it's inexcusably horrid. That was her second post. Her second post clarified that she "made an assumption that they were close in age", which more than likely, the logic in that continues on that she thought they were both willing participants in a playing doctor scenario, not a molesting scenario.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 7, 2024 23:32:18 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2015 0:22:20 GMT
I said this in the other thread, but it bears repeating here too: Let's take into account her years of history here of rational thought and logic. Let's take into account her words that she "made an assumption that they were close in age", which more than likely, the logic in that continues on that she thought they were both willing participants in a playing doctor scenario, not a molesting scenario. I'm taking into account her history and her words, to not assume BuckeyeSandy has been hiding a sick twisted mentality all this time and has suddenly morphed into a demented person who blames a 4 year old for being a victim of molestation. I mean come on. Well, you know what? As a new member here who is not familiar with her ''years of history here of rational thought and logic'', I took her words at face value. Words have weight and meaning and I take people at their word. I agree with the others who said she should have had the facts in hand and a clear picture of the events before making insensitive remarks on a public message board. You're not new here. Your first post here: "Hi, I lurked on the old boards and have been lurking here too." While it is possible that you may have missed every single one of her posts ever made in all the years she posted and you lurked here and on the old board, it's questionable. So, if you want to, as you say. "take people at their word"... here are her words... "made an assumption that they were close in age", which more than likely, the logic in that continues on that she thought they were both willing participants in a playing doctor scenario, not a molesting scenario. So take her at her word.
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Post by BuckeyeSandy on May 24, 2015 0:39:15 GMT
Roast me, toast me, what-ever.. I NEVER SIDED with anyone, I asked why? Why now? And why go into details? I am in shock over what happened (I read more else where) and "history" aside, I do not condone anyone's actions. I am totally shaken by the responses here towards me. But hey, you all were quick, quick to attack, jump, pulverize, and be malicious towards me. Enough yet? Here go at it again.
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Post by gypsymama on May 24, 2015 0:40:35 GMT
you are shaken by the response??? you said the girls were just as guilty!!
cunt
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Post by BuckeyeSandy on May 24, 2015 0:46:13 GMT
you are shaken by the response??? you said the girls were just as guilty!! cunt What-ever you say... A few to many hours ago I only knew that there was a pile up and I made a fucking mistake I had no clue about the 'back story' but whatever Keep going
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 7, 2024 23:32:18 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2015 0:46:40 GMT
Roast me, toast me, what-ever.. I NEVER SIDED with anyone, I asked why? Why now? And why go into details? I am in shock over what happened (I read more else where) and "history" aside, I do not condone anyone's actions. I am totally shaken by the responses here towards me. But hey, you all were quick, quick to attack, jump, pulverize, and be malicious towards me. Enough yet? Here go at it again. You still haven't admitted your errors. You blamed the victims. Who Josh molested. Who are his sisters. That is never okay. What you said was disgusting. Just admit it. Molestation is never okay. Ever.
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Nink
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,955
Location: North Idaho
Jul 1, 2014 23:30:44 GMT
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Post by Nink on May 24, 2015 0:53:24 GMT
Even if they were close in age to the boy, what difference does it make? I don't care if they're 4, 14, or 44 sexual assault is sexual assault.
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Post by BuckeyeSandy on May 24, 2015 0:55:49 GMT
Roast me, toast me, what-ever.. I NEVER SIDED with anyone, I asked why? Why now? And why go into details? I am in shock over what happened (I read more else where) and "history" aside, I do not condone anyone's actions. I am totally shaken by the responses here towards me. But hey, you all were quick, quick to attack, jump, pulverize, and be malicious towards me. Enough yet? Here go at it again. You still haven't admitted your errors. You blamed the victims. Who Josh molested. Who are his sisters. That is never okay. What you said was disgusting. Just admit it. The hell I do??? A 4 year old asleep in her bed is to blame, well hell if you believe that of me. When it was explained what did you want me to say, I already said I made an assumption that was false. And why the hell would I want to come back after my second post was twisted like the first? You harpies make great assumptions you know. Let's hear more, come on?
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Post by quinmm14 on May 24, 2015 1:03:27 GMT
Roast me, toast me, what-ever.. I NEVER SIDED with anyone, I asked why? Why now? And why go into details? I am in shock over what happened (I read more else where) and "history" aside, I do not condone anyone's actions. I am totally shaken by the responses here towards me. But hey, you all were quick, quick to attack, jump, pulverize, and be malicious towards me. Enough yet? Here go at it again. I wasn't going to post this, and in fact, I probably shouldn't, but your attitude just totally pisses me off. I'm a mother of a little girl that was abused when she was just five years old. And it's people with opinions and thoughts like the ones you've so graciously shared here today that help these sick fucks get away with abuse. I don't care how you choose to spin it, you BLAMED the little girls, I'm so pissed, I don't even have words.
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Post by coffeetalk on May 24, 2015 1:08:49 GMT
Well, you know what? As a new member here who is not familiar with her ''years of history here of rational thought and logic'', I took her words at face value. Words have weight and meaning and I take people at their word. I agree with the others who said she should have had the facts in hand and a clear picture of the events before making insensitive remarks on a public message board. You're not new here. Your first post here: "Hi, I lurked on the old boards and have been lurking here too." While it is possible that you may have missed every single one of her posts ever made in all the years she posted and you lurked here and on the old board, i t's questionable. So, if you want to, as you say. "take people at their word"... here are her words... "made an assumption that they were close in age", which more than likely, the logic in that continues on that she thought they were both willing participants in a playing doctor scenario, not a molesting scenario. So take her at her word.
Yes, m'am, and thank you for the warm welcome and what do you mean by ''it's questionable''? Reading here sporadically for a few years, not registered and never commenting in my estimation is new here.
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Post by BuckeyeSandy on May 24, 2015 1:09:02 GMT
I wasn't going to post this, and in fact, I probably shouldn't, but your attitude just totally pisses me off. I'm a mother of a little girl that was abused when she was just five years old. And it's people with opinions and thoughts like the ones you've so graciously shared here today that help these sick fucks get away with abuse. I don't care how you choose to spin it, you BLAMED the little girls, I'm so pissed, I don't even have words. Your perception is your reality, nothing I do will change that. But you are ever deeply and thoroughly wrong to the nth degree. Do not mistake me. YOU ARE SO WRONG
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 7, 2024 23:32:18 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2015 1:16:03 GMT
I wasn't going to post this, and in fact, I probably shouldn't, but your attitude just totally pisses me off. I'm a mother of a little girl that was abused when she was just five years old. And it's people with opinions and thoughts like the ones you've so graciously shared here today that help these sick fucks get away with abuse. I don't care how you choose to spin it, you BLAMED the little girls, I'm so pissed, I don't even have words. Your perception is your reality, nothing I do will change that. But you are ever deeply and thoroughly wrong to the nth degree. Do not mistake me. YOU ARE SO WRONG She's not wrong. Once again, you are unbelievable.
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Post by greenlegume on May 24, 2015 1:18:06 GMT
I wasn't going to post this, and in fact, I probably shouldn't, but your attitude just totally pisses me off. I'm a mother of a little girl that was abused when she was just five years old. And it's people with opinions and thoughts like the ones you've so graciously shared here today that help these sick fucks get away with abuse. I don't care how you choose to spin it, you BLAMED the little girls, I'm so pissed, I don't even have words. Your perception is your reality, nothing I do will change that. But you are ever deeply and thoroughly wrong to the nth degree. Do not mistake me. YOU ARE SO WRONGYou need to stand in front of the mirror when you say this.
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Olan
Pearl Clutcher
Enter your message here...
Posts: 4,050
Jul 13, 2014 21:23:27 GMT
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Post by Olan on May 24, 2015 1:19:46 GMT
You can be defensive or admit what you said was misguided, disgusting, stupid etc.
How you behave when you are called out says a lot about you. If I placed blame on survivors of sexual abuse but that wasn't really my intent I would be quick to clear up what I meant or simply stand firm in my assholery.
It's not a dead horse it's a matter of correcting something you may or may not have meant.
I am not willing to hear you out but maybe someone else is.
I believe you absolutely meant what you said. I hate that you can't own it though that's common with women like you.
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