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Post by alittleintrepid on May 24, 2015 1:22:15 GMT
I have not seen anything to tell me what age the girls were; yes I made an assumption they were close to the age of the boy. You all can be as outraged at me as you like. I did not know the ages when I posted and frankly, 15 years later I hope some healing has occurred. The good Lord knows that constant revisiting does not heal, but rather inflicts the pain again and again. Those who were abused as children, teens or as adults, I cannot help you. I cannot change what happened to you. But I did not abuse you, nor do I doubt that abuse happened. I will pray that you can find healing. I know no one forgets, and very few can even forgive. I've been around to know about the flame-proof suit, but do all of you here tell me that you would "cut-off" your son if he was ever accused? He would be "dead" unto you? I merely question the reason for bringing this up in the first place, doing judgement and condemnation based upon what? Gossip? We all have feet of clay, we have things that we did we hope never comes to the light of day, we all have wronged someone. Buckeye Sandy, the above post was what you posted as clarification. Reread it and see if you can understand how it would be offensive. Implying that the concerns were based on gossip or that we have all wronged someone really minimizes the severity of Josh Duggar's egregious criminal behaviours. The fact that justice was not served for his victims is a hard pill for anyone who has been molested or who is a feminist or who is concerned about human rights or who is a good person. If you are none of those things, please continue to say that we are beating dead horses. Those posts were vile too, for what it's worth. |
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2015 1:25:16 GMT
You're not new here. Your first post here: "Hi, I lurked on the old boards and have been lurking here too." While it is possible that you may have missed every single one of her posts ever made in all the years she posted and you lurked here and on the old board, i t's questionable. So, if you want to, as you say. "take people at their word"... here are her words... "made an assumption that they were close in age", which more than likely, the logic in that continues on that she thought they were both willing participants in a playing doctor scenario, not a molesting scenario. So take her at her word.
Yes, m'am, and thank you for the warm welcome and what do you mean by ''it's questionable''? Reading here sporadically for a few years, not registered and never commenting in my estimation is new here. You may be new to us, but we are not new to you, which is the point you were trying to incorrectly put forth. |
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Post by peatlejuice on May 24, 2015 1:34:09 GMT
BuckeyeSandy - I do believe you that you made an assumption about the girls' ages. To that degree, I hope you've realized the truth behind the saying, "You know what happens when you assume...you make an ass of you and me." Having said that, I fear that you carry the same perceptions that allow rape culture to flourish. Regardless of whether the girls were 5, 14 or 40, non-consensual sexual acts performed against a woman are acts of molestation and assault. As to your question as to why it's just now come to light...it's been rumored for years. The smoking gun, as it were, is the police report, which was finally (begrudgingly) released as part of a FOIA request. Otherwise, it would have been swept under the rug forever as this family continued their charade as "America's moral standard".
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2015 1:41:52 GMT
I have not seen anything to tell me what age the girls were; yes I made an assumption they were close to the age of the boy. You all can be as outraged at me as you like. I did not know the ages when I posted and frankly, 15 years later I hope some healing has occurred. The good Lord knows that constant revisiting does not heal, but rather inflicts the pain again and again. Those who were abused as children, teens or as adults, I cannot help you. I cannot change what happened to you. But I did not abuse you, nor do I doubt that abuse happened. I will pray that you can find healing. I know no one forgets, and very few can even forgive. I've been around to know about the flame-proof suit, but do all of you here tell me that you would "cut-off" your son if he was ever accused? He would be "dead" unto you? I merely question the reason for bringing this up in the first place, doing judgement and condemnation based upon what? Gossip? We all have feet of clay, we have things that we did we hope never comes to the light of day, we all have wronged someone. Buckeye Sandy, the above post was what you posted as clarification. Reread it and see if you can understand how it would be offensive. Implying that the concerns were based on gossip or that we have all wronged someone really minimizes the severity of Josh Duggar's egregious criminal behaviours. The fact that justice was not served for his victims is a hard pill for anyone who has been molested or who is a feminist or who is concerned about human rights or who is a good person. If you are none of those things, please continue to say that we are beating dead horses. Those posts were vile too, for what it's worth. She explained that it was said with incorrect assumptions, missing facts and she was still reeling from what happened to one of our own Pea's boy, the empathy she felt and the scariness of that situation. She explained it, other peas explained it and people continued to call her horrible things and continued to beat her down even after it was explained that what they thought she said isn't what she said. THAT is vile. |
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2015 1:45:45 GMT
BuckeyeSandy - I do believe you that you made an assumption about the girls' ages. To that degree, I hope you've realized the truth behind the saying, "You know what happens when you assume...you make an ass of you and me." Having said that, I fear that you carry the same perceptions that allow rape culture to flourish. Regardless of whether the girls were 5, 14 or 40, non-consensual sexual acts performed against a woman are acts of molestation and assault. As to your question as to why it's just now come to light...it's been rumored for years. The smoking gun, as it were, is the police report, which was finally (begrudgingly) released as part of a FOIA request. Otherwise, it would have been swept under the rug forever as this family continued their charade as "America's moral standard". |
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stittsygirl
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by stittsygirl on May 24, 2015 1:51:03 GMT
BuckeyeSandy - I do believe you that you made an assumption about the girls' ages. To that degree, I hope you've realized the truth behind the saying, "You know what happens when you assume...you make an ass of you and me." Having said that, I fear that you carry the same perceptions that allow rape culture to flourish. Regardless of whether the girls were 5, 14 or 40, non-consensual sexual acts performed against a woman are acts of molestation and assault. As to your question as to why it's just now come to light...it's been rumored for years. The smoking gun, as it were, is the police report, which was finally (begrudgingly) released as part of a FOIA request. Otherwise, it would have been swept under the rug forever as this family continued their charade as "America's moral standard". And that's why it's relevant now, even if you (Sandy) consider it in the past, over, and forgiven. This man and his parents have made millions of dollars cultivating an image that had a very dark underbelly. They are part of a fundamentalist group that needs more scrutiny, especially in their attitudes towards women and children. They have also worked hard to limit the rights of others, including those in the LGBTQ community, using mental images of molesters preying on young children, when they knew they had one in their own home. And they were using their popularity to gain support for their political cronies. Even after acknowledging how ignorant and hurtful your initial post was, it's clear from your subsequent posts that you're still not getting it. |
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Post by alittleintrepid on May 24, 2015 1:52:26 GMT
Buckeye Sandy, the above post was what you posted as clarification. Reread it and see if you can understand how it would be offensive. Implying that the concerns were based on gossip or that we have all wronged someone really minimizes the severity of Josh Duggar's egregious criminal behaviours. The fact that justice was not served for his victims is a hard pill for anyone who has been molested or who is a feminist or who is concerned about human rights or who is a good person. If you are none of those things, please continue to say that we are beating dead horses. Those posts were vile too, for what it's worth. She explained that it was said with incorrect assumptions, missing facts and she was still reeling from what happened to one of our own Pea's boy, the empathy she felt and the scariness of that situation. She explained it, other peas explained it and people continued to call her horrible things and continued to beat her down even after it was explained that what they thought she said isn't what she said. THAT is vile. I think you're wrong about this. And standing up for victims rights, especially when they are 4 year old sexual abuse victims, is never the wrong call. |
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Post by alittleintrepid on May 24, 2015 1:56:28 GMT
She didn't know it wasn't consensual.
Once that fact was made apparent, she continued to question why bring it up now (gossip?) and said we've all done wrong. Those statements minimize the severity of the crimes. SMDH. |
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2015 1:56:44 GMT
BuckeyeSandy - I do believe you that you made an assumption about the girls' ages. To that degree, I hope you've realized the truth behind the saying, "You know what happens when you assume...you make an ass of you and me." Having said that, I fear that you carry the same perceptions that allow rape culture to flourish. Regardless of whether the girls were 5, 14 or 40, non-consensual sexual acts performed against a woman are acts of molestation and assault. As to your question as to why it's just now come to light...it's been rumored for years. The smoking gun, as it were, is the police report, which was finally (begrudgingly) released as part of a FOIA request. Otherwise, it would have been swept under the rug forever as this family continued their charade as "America's moral standard". I said I wouldn't interact with you again but I can't let this go. How can she think that when it was his SISTERS? And not only that but five victims. I don't buy it one bit. It's back pedaling. |
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2015 2:05:51 GMT
BuckeyeSandy - I do believe you that you made an assumption about the girls' ages. To that degree, I hope you've realized the truth behind the saying, "You know what happens when you assume...you make an ass of you and me." Having said that, I fear that you carry the same perceptions that allow rape culture to flourish. Regardless of whether the girls were 5, 14 or 40, non-consensual sexual acts performed against a woman are acts of molestation and assault. As to your question as to why it's just now come to light...it's been rumored for years. The smoking gun, as it were, is the police report, which was finally (begrudgingly) released as part of a FOIA request. Otherwise, it would have been swept under the rug forever as this family continued their charade as "America's moral standard". Then clearly she has not even read a modicum of the information about this case and isn't qualified to offer up thoughts on the matter. When even the headlines are screaming "molestation", one can safely assume there was no consent. Hello. |
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Post by coffeetalk on May 24, 2015 2:07:48 GMT
Yes, m'am, and thank you for the warm welcome and what do you mean by ''it's questionable''? Reading here sporadically for a few years, not registered and never commenting in my estimation is new here. You may be new to us, but we are not new to you, which is the point you were trying to incorrectly put forth. If that's what you believe you'd be incorrect, never took note of who is who, but I certainly will now.  Sorry to the other posters here if this thread was highjacked by this discourse, I stand by my initial response to Gia. |
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Post by alittleintrepid on May 24, 2015 2:16:03 GMT
Welcome to the pod coffeetalk.. Keeping track of other Refupeas comments is known affectionately as spreadsheet keeping. Personally, I wouldn't waste your time with it....just try not to be batshit crazy and you'll fit right in! |
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2015 2:21:42 GMT
Welcome to the pod coffeetalk.. Keeping track of other Refupeas comments is known affectionately as spreadsheet keeping. Personally, I wouldn't waste your time with it....just try not to be batshit crazy and you'll fit right in! You don't have to keep a spreadsheet to catch glimpses of and get a sense of many posters. It is true that some will go unnoticed at times and sometimes we just aren't paying attention. But if someone has said something as unbelievable as what you THINK BuckeyeSandy said, it doesn't hurt to take a look at at least their more recent history to see if it's out of character and that maybe she's not saying what you think she's saying. Especially when she and others are telling you were the misunderstanding is. |
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on May 24, 2015 2:35:45 GMT
She didn't know it wasn't consensual. Of course. No argument there. Her thesis, at least to me, seemed to be that the sexual behavior was consensual among siblings and that the accusations were false. And she compared it to a rape accusation discussed on this board, not playing doctor (metaphor or not). Yes, she made an incorrect assumption about (some of the) ages. But based on that, she made some statements about accusers, "intolerance," and "vicious double standards." She warned us that our precious sons could be snared by girls like this. The four year-old thing is a red herring. It bothers me that even in our outrage we need to continually refer to the littlest girls - as if they are the most legitimate victims. |
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Post by scrapmaven on May 24, 2015 2:51:35 GMT
BuckeyeSandy I so want to give you a break here and not participate in a pile-on, but I have to say that I cannot believe that what you typed could possibly be your truth. For reasons of keeping and defending my privacy on a very public board I won't go into detail, but your words shocked me. You must have been mistaken when you said the girls were guilty. If not, I cannot fathom interacting w/you ever, again. Please tell me what happened in your life that you would blame the innocent? It's just so wrong. ETA: I had a novel typed here and chose to delete and then edit, because I am concerned about over-sharing here.
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julieb
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Post by julieb on May 24, 2015 2:54:30 GMT
you are shaken by the response??? you said the girls were just as guilty!! cunt What-ever you say...  A few to many hours ago I only knew that there was a pile up and I made a fucking mistake I had no clue about the 'back story' but whatever Keep going
Again, your assumption doesn't matter if they were close in age. Please go away from this board....forever.
And I hope to God you never have someone close to you molested, because I'm sure you will just make excuses all the way around.
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NoWomanNoCry
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Post by NoWomanNoCry on May 24, 2015 2:57:45 GMT
BuckeyeSandy I so want to give you a break here and not participate in a pile-on, but I have to say that I cannot believe that what you typed could possibly be your truth. For reasons of keeping and defending my privacy on a very public board I won't go into detail, but your words shocked me. You must have been mistaken when you said the girls were guilty. If not, I cannot fathom interacting w/you ever, again. Please tell me what happened in your life that you would blame the innocent? It's just so wrong. ETA: I had a novel typed here and chose to delete and then edit, because I am concerned about over-sharing here. *hugs* that's all. |
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Post by alittleintrepid on May 24, 2015 3:13:17 GMT
Welcome to the pod coffeetalk.. Keeping track of other Refupeas comments is known affectionately as spreadsheet keeping. Personally, I wouldn't waste your time with it....just try not to be batshit crazy and you'll fit right in! You don't have to keep a spreadsheet to catch glimpses of and get a sense of many posters. It is true that some will go unnoticed at times and sometimes we just aren't paying attention. But if someone has said something as unbelievable as what you THINK BuckeyeSandy said, it doesn't hurt to take a look at at least their more recent history to see if it's out of character and that maybe she's not saying what you think she's saying. Especially when she and others are telling you were the misunderstanding is. This is what you choose to respond to? I've read ALL of coffeetalk's posts....she's only been a member here for about five weeks and very few of her posts are on controversial threads. I would like it if she contributed more. As for Buckeye Sandy's posts, please clarify what you think I've misunderstood. |
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2015 3:36:16 GMT
You don't have to keep a spreadsheet to catch glimpses of and get a sense of many posters. It is true that some will go unnoticed at times and sometimes we just aren't paying attention. But if someone has said something as unbelievable as what you THINK BuckeyeSandy said, it doesn't hurt to take a look at at least their more recent history to see if it's out of character and that maybe she's not saying what you think she's saying. Especially when she and others are telling you were the misunderstanding is. This is what you choose to respond to? I don't know why that matters. I don't know how else to make what I've (and others) already said any clearer. |
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Post by alittleintrepid on May 24, 2015 3:41:06 GMT
The four year-old thing is a red herring. It bothers me that even in our outrage we need to continually refer to the littlest girls - as if they are the most legitimate victims. I don't think that it is a red herring. I think that every one of those assaults could be just as harmful to the victim no matter the age and no matter the nature of the assault. When comparing pain, it never works to say that one person was more victimized than another. It was not the fault of any of those girls that Josh molested them and that their parents didn't take more steps to protect them. But when we reference that the youngest victim was 4/5/6, I think it speaks to how predatory the behaviour was on Josh's part. He was choosing the sibling who was the easiest to overpower and who was developmentally the most vulnerable. The fact that he assaulted someone so far from his own age speaks to how disturbed his thinking was and suggests, to me, that he is likely to be an ongoing threat to other young children. |
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2015 3:43:53 GMT
You don't have to keep a spreadsheet to catch glimpses of and get a sense of many posters. It is true that some will go unnoticed at times and sometimes we just aren't paying attention. But if someone has said something as unbelievable as what you THINK BuckeyeSandy said, it doesn't hurt to take a look at at least their more recent history to see if it's out of character and that maybe she's not saying what you think she's saying. Especially when she and others are telling you were the misunderstanding is. This is what you choose to respond to? I've read ALL of coffeetalk's posts.... she's only been a member here for about five weeks and very few of her posts are on controversial threads. I would like it if she contributed more. As for Buckeye Sandy's posts, please clarify what you think I've misunderstood. Yes, coffeetalk, please post more. And a belated welcome! |
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
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Location: USA
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on May 24, 2015 3:50:24 GMT
alittleintrepid: You're right, of course, about everything you point out. My problem is that the fact of the little girls' victimization somehow cements guilt, and it worries me that their (little girls) absence would make this a less-believed story - as we just saw play out here. (Am I making any sense?)
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Post by alittleintrepid on May 24, 2015 3:55:33 GMT
This is what you choose to respond to? I don't know why that matters. I don't know how else to make what I've (and others) already said any clearer. It matters because you typed in a really big font "She didn't know it wasn't consensual" and then didn't bother to respond to any of the responses that your comment solicited. You just wanted to yell at us, not discuss anything? The best way to clarify what you were saying is to read what other posters say and attempt to respond to comments that appear to be directed to you. Or you could post in a really big font which, from here on in, we will know is the universal signal that the discussion is over and no further dissension is permitted. Goodnight. |
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Post by alittleintrepid on May 24, 2015 4:05:36 GMT
alittleintrepid: You're right, of course, about everything you point out. My problem is that the fact of the little girls' victimization somehow cements guilt, and it worries me that their (little girls) absence would make this a less-believed story - as we just saw play out here. (Am I making any sense?) I think I get what you're saying.... If he had assaulted siblings closer to his age, the public would be less likely to believe that it was assault? People would be more inclined to make comments about how he was experimenting, didn't have an outlet in his repressed culture etc.? I hear your concern. For what it's worth, I think each of his victims has been wronged and deserves better.
Edited to add.... I know he assaulted multiple siblings and know some would have been closer to his age. I don't know how to clarify my first sentence without making it sound as if those assaults are less egregious though. |
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2015 4:06:23 GMT
I don't know why that matters. I don't know how else to make what I've (and others) already said any clearer. It matters because you typed in a really big font "She didn't know it wasn't consensual" and then didn't bother to respond to any of the responses that your comment solicited. You just wanted to yell at us, not discuss anything? The best way to clarify what you were saying is to read what other posters say and attempt to respond to comments that appear to be directed to you. Or you could post in a really big font which, from here on in, we will know is the universal signal that the discussion is over and no further dissension is permitted. Goodnight.I and others attempted to discuss it repeatedly and yet the vile posts continued on, beating up on BuckeyeSandy. There's only so much you can say when no one is listening. |
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Post by pierogi on May 24, 2015 4:07:16 GMT
You may be new to us, but we are not new to you, which is the point you were trying to incorrectly put forth. If that's what you believe you'd be incorrect, never took note of who is who, but I certainly will now. Sorry to the other posters here if this thread was highjacked by this discourse, I stand by my initial response to Gia. Welcome to the board, CoffeeTalk! I'm enjoying your posts, and I hope you stick around. |
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2015 4:58:18 GMT
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Post by peatlejuice on May 24, 2015 5:05:21 GMT
BuckeyeSandy - I do believe you that you made an assumption about the girls' ages. To that degree, I hope you've realized the truth behind the saying, "You know what happens when you assume...you make an ass of you and me." Having said that, I fear that you carry the same perceptions that allow rape culture to flourish. Regardless of whether the girls were 5, 14 or 40, non-consensual sexual acts performed against a woman are acts of molestation and assault. As to your question as to why it's just now come to light...it's been rumored for years. The smoking gun, as it were, is the police report, which was finally (begrudgingly) released as part of a FOIA request. Otherwise, it would have been swept under the rug forever as this family continued their charade as "America's moral standard". Then, frankly speaking, you're portraying her as either the most ignorant being on the planet or an idiot. Nearly every single headline references molestation. Merriam-Webster defines molestation as "to harm (someone) through sexual contact : to touch (someone) in a sexual and improper way". At a minimum, she should have done some research before popping off. Honestly, you aren't doing her any favors by yelling at people like they're stupid. I get it. She spouted off thinking that the Peas were referencing underage sex of peers (I'm not convinced she didn't know it was consensual, but whatever). I still maintain my belief that her thinking is what encourages rape culture. If you or her want to consider view as me piling on her or beating a dead horse, then that's something you can lose sleep over. I won't apologize for trying to explain to her why she's getting such outrage. |
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2015 5:34:24 GMT
I wasn't actually trying to portray yelling. It was said numerous times and people kept responding as if it was never said or they didn't see it. I figured if I used the biggest font they couldn't miss it.
I still haven't seen any headlines yet. The only reason I even knew about this is from here, so maybe I'm not the only one who hasn't seen anything about this anywhere. Even now, the only thing I've seen is Huckabee's post that showed up on my Facebook because someone I know commented on it. and I got to read the whole thing, not just the part that someone here posted. Funny they left out the part that doesn't paint some of us in such a good light.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2015 5:40:04 GMT
Ok where were the parents Jim Bob And Michelle during all this? They had a tiny house then, right? Sure they were banging up a storm but why weren't they paying close attention to the girls? Surely to Goodness they had to have known something was going on. I blame Josh 1000% but the parents should have been supervising their other 9 or 10 kids, too. This is at night as well. I used to check on my son at night when he was sleeping to make sure he was ok. A little girl aged 4? I would so have still been checking on her. She is barely out of diapers. When kids have trauma to their bodies they can have nightmares and act out...wouldn't those moronic parents have seen, heard or done something sooner to deal or prevent this? One of those 4 girls must have said something to the parents "Mama, Joshy touched me where it's private and i didn't like it..." The parents knew more than they are letting on and brushed this under a rug.
The whole family are pigs for letting this go on. Yes, the parents let it go on.
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