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Post by Peace Sign on Aug 10, 2015 1:39:51 GMT
No, happy momma, people are in fact jaywalking. But the tickets are being handed out like crazy, with a ridiculous fine, like a fundraiser for law enforcement. While murderers and other criminals go free. So the people are beaten down and feel hopeless. And cannot in any way make it out of that hole. It has created a longstanding us vs. them mentality amongst citizens, who live below the poverty line. We had a similar situation near columbus. A little municipality called new Rome. All they did was give out speeding tickets. To fund their staff. They weren't providing services, as many of these near ferguson aren't. It got shut down and disbanded here. So they know citizens are being ticketed right and left for jaywalking, that it comes with a huge fine they can't possibly pay, yet they continue to jaywalk and law enforcement is wrong when they get the inevitable ticket. Yeah, that makes sense. Eta: investigating a murder or other criminal action usually takes longer than handing out a ticket, so just because it's not happening right away doesn't mean it isn't happening. Also it's worth noting, that often times solving these other types of crimes takes cooperation from the community. Something tells me that I doubt law enforcement is getting that in that town and probably hasn't for a while. there is at least one case where the victims family or witnesses have named the criminal and nothing is done. yes, it takes longer of course. and you are right - there is not a lot of cooperation going in the community anymore because they don't feel they're being helped in any way at all. victims often don't even call the police anymore. that is true in many communities.
i'm not saying all people are innocent and all police officers are awful. this situation has been brewing for 50 years near st. Louis. this thread began about people complaining about the disrupters at sanders' speech. I was giving a different opinion. not the only opinion. just something to think about. discussions about race and inequalities are always good to have.
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Post by peatlejuice on Aug 10, 2015 1:43:35 GMT
Apply for a permit and conduct your own rally on the day of your choice. They do. And they don't feel heard. So they're moving on from that. Speaking for myself: They are heard. I hear their message. I know what they are trying to say. But because they insist on delivering their message in the most disrespectful ways possible, they end up losing the sympathy I might have for them.
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Post by mollycoddle on Aug 10, 2015 1:45:51 GMT
l Maybe this is the disconnect. Yes, if there is a law that someone-anyone should be following, and you don't follow ot-then it is your fault. For example, I was speeding on the Ohio turnpike. I rounded a bend, and there was the HW patrol. He pulled me over, and I got an expensive ticket. Did I argue with him? Nope. I paid the ticket. It was my fault. of course. but you're not hearing or considering the rest of what I've said. again, not you personally. it's not that simple.
why are the fines so large for jaywalking? the punishment so harsh. this wouldn't fly in other areas. it's insane. people would band together, speak up, and be heard. that's all i'm saying. heck...I got a speeding ticket doing 18 miles over the speed limit many years ago and the fine wasn't anywhere near this. it's an unfair practice. yes, you shouldn't jaywalk. especially when you know they're "out" for it. but really, aren't there more important things for police to do? aren't there hierarchies of offenses? and how long would you take unfair police practices and unfair unreasonable fines before you got fed up and angry?
seriously? all anyone has to say is that these people should follow the rules, not jaywalk, and their lives will be great? it's so insane. I believe in community policing and lifting people up.
it's easy to sit in a middle class environment where these things don't happen to you, or anyone you know, and brush it off. (general you again). it doesn't affect you.
I am not a fan of entrapment laws, which are money makers for the community. We just got cameras in school zones, which will make a pretty penny,, I'm sure. I agree that police should be more focused on important/dangerous crimes. I don't think that lives will necessarily be better if you follow the rules, but problems with the police might be. But- when you are familiar with a law, and you flout that law, it should not be a surprise to you that you wind up in trouble. I agree that community policing is a good idea.
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Post by RiverIsis on Aug 10, 2015 4:00:18 GMT
Let's be honest we have entire communities being victimized by how laws are applied. If the laws were applied equally then there is no issue, the problem is they aren't. It isn't just black v white, but poor v rich. So Lebron's kid probably isn't going to have the same problem as Joe Average's kid for the same thing. FWIW - I don't care if Michael Brown was guilty of this that or the other. In our nation we are not supposed to impose the death penalty without a trial by jury. Seriously, how can anyone be ok with Michael Brown being killed by the state and yet James Holmes lives. This is the sort of inequality that is seen and is troubling. That wasn't imposing the death penalty. That was defending his life from someone who made it clear to the officer that he intended to harm him -if not kill him. Just quick for Wiki (I know it isn't the most reliable but it does multi reference and locked) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Michael_Brown If you are defending your life you don't pursue the other person, you stay put, or follow at a safe distance surrounded by the car you are in. The LEOs had a description and Wilson had no reason to leave the safety of his vehicle. 10 shots before he is moving toward the officer and at no time was there any hint or reporting of a weapon during the event. Hmmm. Nothing Michael Brown did that day is legally punishable by death in the USA. I don't think Michael Brown is a saint by any stretch but he didn't deserve to die for misdemeanor robbery say it is ok makes us no better than many of the regions we allegedly try to police to instill democracy. Most of the world see the USA as a bunch of hypocrits because of this sort of thing.
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Post by RiverIsis on Aug 10, 2015 4:04:01 GMT
That wasn't imposing the death penalty. That was defending his life from someone who made it clear to the officer that he intended to harm him -if not kill him. And people like her will never EVER see the difference. Please state what you mean. I understand the difference, do you? Are you ok with your family member being shot and murdered in the street because they match a description? I'm not. That's why we have jury trials.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 12:36:43 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2015 4:38:36 GMT
That wasn't imposing the death penalty. That was defending his life from someone who made it clear to the officer that he intended to harm him -if not kill him. Just quick for Wiki (I know it isn't the most reliable but it does multi reference and locked) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Michael_Brown If you are defending your life you don't pursue the other person, you stay put, or follow at a safe distance surrounded by the car you are in. The LEOs had a description and Wilson had no reason to leave the safety of his vehicle. 10 shots before he is moving toward the officer and at no time was there any hint or reporting of a weapon during the event. Hmmm. Nothing Michael Brown did that day is legally punishable by death in the USA.I don't think Michael Brown is a saint by any stretch but he didn't deserve to die for misdemeanor robbery say it is ok makes us no better than many of the regions we allegedly try to police to instill democracy. Most of the world see the USA as a bunch of hypocrits because of this sort of thing. It wasn't a case of punishment. Michael Brown made clear to Officer Wilson that he intended to harm him when he reached for the gun. He walked away, but came back at him. He was coming toward him (and not in a "hey, let's talk about this" manner) and taking into account Michael's previous intent and actions, Officer Wilson made a split second decision. Michael Brown's criminal behavior and intent toward an armed person are what got him killed. Your version is wrong. Even the words you choose show a bias in how you interpret the Michael Brown case. Forensic reports, autopsies, eyewitness accounts, Department of Justice, Eric Holder and a grand jury all back up the fact that you have it wrong.
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Nink
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,955
Location: North Idaho
Jul 1, 2014 23:30:44 GMT
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Post by Nink on Aug 10, 2015 5:01:20 GMT
And people like her will never EVER see the difference. Please state what you mean. I understand the difference, do you? Are you ok with your family member being shot and murdered in the street because they match a description? I'm not. That's why we have jury trials. He wasn't shot because he matched a description, he was shot because he'd already attacked the officer once and tried to take his gun, then was charging after him again after they got out of the vehicle. Why is this so hard to understand? If he'd just moved out of the street as asked and cooperated, he'd still be alive. His ass would probably be sitting in jail, but what happened to him is no ones fault but his own. If you can't or won't see that, then I don't know what to tell you.
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back to *pea*ality
Pearl Clutcher
Not my circus, not my monkeys ~refugee pea #59
Posts: 3,149
Jun 25, 2014 19:51:11 GMT
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Post by back to *pea*ality on Aug 10, 2015 10:03:06 GMT
'Hands up, don't shoot' was built on a lie The late evening of Aug. 9, 2014, I couldn’t sleep. I was due to substitute-anchor MSNBC’s “UP with Steve Kornacki” and should have been asleep. But after looking at my Twitter feed and reading the rage under #Ferguson, I felt compelled to type a reaction to the killing of Michael Brown by police officer Darren Wilson. Tying the shooting to the inane whine of certain politicians about a “war on whites,” I decried the next morning the death of yet another unarmed black man at the hands of a white police officer. In those early hours and early days, there was more unknown than known. But this month, the Justice Department released two must-read investigations connected to the killing of Brown that filled in blanks, corrected the record and brought sunlight to dark places by revealing ugly practices that institutionalized racism and hardship. They have also forced me to deal with two uncomfortable truths: Brown never surrendered with his hands up, and Wilson was justified in shooting Brown. Link to full Washington Post article by Jonathon Capehart
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 10, 2015 11:37:03 GMT
But you have no problem calling people ignorant and uneducated-- many people spout off on this issue and have no idea what they are talking about. Including yourself.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 10, 2015 11:41:53 GMT
Papercraftadvocate...I didn't want to hit quote again because it's so long on here. People HAVE been crying foul in the st Louis area on that ticketing issue for years. It's that exasperation that made mike brown ignite so quickly. Now in the year since, they are slowly making some changes in ferguson. It has been a productive year but on the back of a dead kid. They weren't really organized before. Social media is helping greatly. See the news today ajp? Protests that are peaceful by these activists?? Non-existent. They don't want to be peaceful they want violence.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 10, 2015 11:47:12 GMT
Maybe it's just me but if I knew there was a steep fine that I couldn't afford for jaywalking and I felt that I was sure to be ticketed and therefore start a downward spiral of life for doing so, I would make sure I wasn't jaywalking. That, you must admit, does seem to be a simple way not to get a ticket for jaywalking. I have a feeling that there are bigger issues than jaywalking at play. Racial tension is not a good thing in any town or circumstance. This, in other words, is saying "hey black people!! Do what your told!" Whether or not the rules were fair. I'm not directing this at you personally, mind you. But are we really saying to never challenge authority? No matter how skewed it might be? You truly are being obtuse--how about PEOPLE (any race, creed, ethnicity...) DONT JAYWALK BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING TO GET A TICKET IF YOU DO??? Why is it then that black people won't obey the law as trivial as you think it might be?
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,969
Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
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Post by AnotherPea on Aug 10, 2015 12:09:33 GMT
I'm curious - why is it that people are able to interrupt a rally, where others have paid big bucks to attend, to get out a message but are unable to come together to protest a law (jaywalking) that they find so horrible?
If the jaywalking law is so racist and unfair, and people obviously have the ability to rally together for a cause, why wasn't this cause addressed years ago? According to Peace's logic, getting rid of this law would have prevented Michael Brown's death. He wouldn't have been angry at the system and felt the need to grab for a cop's gun.
If you don't like a law, you fight to get it changed. You don't keep breaking it and then complain that you got caught.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 12:36:43 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2015 13:55:14 GMT
And people like her will never EVER see the difference. Please state what you mean. I understand the difference, do you? Are you ok with your family member being shot and murdered in the street because they match a description? I'm not. That's why we have jury trials. Of course I'm not ok with a family member (or anyone, of any skin color for the record) being shot and murdered in the street because they match a description.
Has this happened? IF you're referencing Michael Brown, he was not shot and murdered in the street because he matched a description. You cannot ignore the facts of this case. (well you...and others can...but the facts are still there)
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Post by anxiousmom on Aug 10, 2015 14:00:10 GMT
I guess I still subscribe to the theory of you catch more flies with honey than vinegar and that if your message isn't being heard, perhaps you consider the delivery.
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freebird
Drama Llama
'cause I'm free as a bird now
Posts: 6,927
Jun 25, 2014 20:06:48 GMT
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Post by freebird on Aug 10, 2015 14:27:07 GMT
Sucks being called a racist when you did nothing to warrant it doesn't it?
Welcome to the last 6 years of every conservative's life.
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Post by Regina Phalange on Aug 10, 2015 14:44:40 GMT
All lives matter - period, over and out! By saying this, you are saying that actually, black lives don't matter.
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Post by Regina Phalange on Aug 10, 2015 14:45:51 GMT
Maybe it's just me but if I knew there was a steep fine that I couldn't afford for jaywalking and I felt that I was sure to be ticketed and therefore start a downward spiral of life for doing so, I would make sure I wasn't jaywalking. That, you must admit, does seem to be a simple way not to get a ticket for jaywalking. I have a feeling that there are bigger issues than jaywalking at play. Racial tension is not a good thing in any town or circumstance. But that's just it, it's only a problem for black people, how can you POSSIBLY look at a situation where a certain population of people are being targeted and your answer is "Well just don't jaywalk?"
What kind of thought process is that???
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Post by Regina Phalange on Aug 10, 2015 14:52:19 GMT
Papercraftadvocate...I didn't want to hit quote again because it's so long on here. People HAVE been crying foul in the st Louis area on that ticketing issue for years. It's that exasperation that made mike brown ignite so quickly. Now in the year since, they are slowly making some changes in ferguson. It has been a productive year but on the back of a dead kid. They weren't really organized before. Social media is helping greatly. So they are and have for years been giving tickets for jaywalking to people who were not in fact jaywalking? If that is happening that is so wrong, white or black or otherwise. Are you being purposefully obtuse? They are giving almost 100% of the jaywalking tickets to blacks...which means they AREN'T ticketing whites for jaywalking. You seriously don't understand that?
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,969
Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
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Post by AnotherPea on Aug 10, 2015 14:58:27 GMT
All lives matter - period, over and out! By saying this, you are saying that actually, black lives don't matter.
Please explain how that is true.
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Post by Regina Phalange on Aug 10, 2015 15:03:58 GMT
By saying this, you are saying that actually, black lives don't matter.
Please explain how that is true. Here is just one article on the subject, Google turns up a bunch:
fusion.net/story/170591/the-next-time-someone-says-all-lives-matter-show-them-these-5-paragraphs/
Essentially, there is an implied "too" at the end of Black Lives Matter. By saying that "All Lives Matter" you are essentially minimizing the other. I suck at explaining it. There are several articles that do it much better than I...lol.
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Post by katieanna on Aug 10, 2015 15:07:15 GMT
All lives matter - period, over and out! By saying this, you are saying that actually, black lives don't matter.
She said "all" lives matter. Why wouldn't that include black people's lives, too?
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Post by katieanna on Aug 10, 2015 15:10:51 GMT
So they are and have for years been giving tickets for jaywalking to people who were not in fact jaywalking? If that is happening that is so wrong, white or black or otherwise. Are you being purposefully obtuse? They are giving almost 100% of the jaywalking tickets to blacks...which means they AREN'T ticketing whites for jaywalking. You seriously don't understand that? The question is: How many whites are actually in the area (which, from what has been reported, is mostly a black area) and are actually jaywalking? That is the information that we don't have. If the population is "almost 100% black", then wouldn't it stand to reason that "almost 100%" of the jaywalking tickets would be given to blacks?
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loco coco
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,662
Jun 26, 2014 16:15:45 GMT
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Post by loco coco on Aug 10, 2015 15:17:17 GMT
All lives matter. By saying this I mean all lives matter
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 10, 2015 15:17:11 GMT
So they are and have for years been giving tickets for jaywalking to people who were not in fact jaywalking? If that is happening that is so wrong, white or black or otherwise. Are you being purposefully obtuse? They are giving almost 100% of the jaywalking tickets to blacks...which means they AREN'T ticketing whites for jaywalking. You seriously don't understand that? You seriously don't understand what I wrote then! How many people were jaywalking? How many received tickets? How many did not? How many total were ticketed? How many whites were let go without a ticket? Was it some massive amount in the hundreds or thousands? Was it 10? You do know Ferguson has a black majority population right--so it is not "incredible or shocking" that the percentage is high!!! Spouting off that 95% of the receivers of the tickets were black MEANS NOTHING. When you don't have ALL of that information. It sounds terrible, HOWEVER until you know those pertinent details of how many were NOT given tickets, were all of them white, then please shut up about it!!!
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georgiapea
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,846
Jun 27, 2014 18:02:10 GMT
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Post by georgiapea on Aug 10, 2015 15:18:37 GMT
How about people stop jaywalking? Such an easy problem to solve. If people continue jaywalking when they know there are ticket writers around then they are being defiant of the laws. Scofflaws are just asking for trouble, a veritable "You brought this on yourself, Rollo Rhubarb".
ETA: I'm actually a little surprised that jaywalking is still the topic when one of MB's friends shot at police officers yesterday. And guess what, the police shot back. Tyrone Harris, Jr., is in the hospital, still alive but not in good shape. So he single handedly turned the protest into a criminal action.
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Post by mollycoddle on Aug 10, 2015 15:33:13 GMT
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Post by Peace Sign on Aug 10, 2015 15:37:14 GMT
Papercraftadvocate...I didn't want to hit quote again because it's so long on here. People HAVE been crying foul in the st Louis area on that ticketing issue for years. It's that exasperation that made mike brown ignite so quickly. Now in the year since, they are slowly making some changes in ferguson. It has been a productive year but on the back of a dead kid. They weren't really organized before. Social media is helping greatly. See the news today ajp? Protests that are peaceful by these activists?? Non-existent. They don't want to be peaceful they want violence. It wasn't the protesters in ferguson who began shooting. You're of course lumping all blacks together. Because one black person controls all the others??? This post is stupid.
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georgiapea
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,846
Jun 27, 2014 18:02:10 GMT
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Post by georgiapea on Aug 10, 2015 15:40:46 GMT
But they were committing crimes, petty ones but still on the books as unlawful. Behave lawfully, don't be arrested.
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Post by Regina Phalange on Aug 10, 2015 15:46:30 GMT
Are you being purposefully obtuse? They are giving almost 100% of the jaywalking tickets to blacks...which means they AREN'T ticketing whites for jaywalking. You seriously don't understand that? The question is: How many whites are actually in the area (which, from what has been reported, is mostly a black area) and are actually jaywalking? That is the information that we don't have. If the population is "almost 100% black", then wouldn't it stand to reason that "almost 100%" of the jaywalking tickets would be given to blacks? The statistic isn't being quoted from a population perspective, it's from a perspective of "blacks are being ticketed but whites aren't." Do you honestly think that only black people jaywalk in Ferguson?
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Post by Peace Sign on Aug 10, 2015 15:47:56 GMT
By saying this, you are saying that actually, black lives don't matter.
She said "all" lives matter. Why wouldn't that include black people's lives, too? This is why I say you (general) should educate yourselves if you wish to speak intelligently on this matter. When blacks feel left out, speaking of equality and currently speaking to police brutality as a whole and specifically aimed at black and brown people, the feeling is that black lives don't natter. It's indeed stating that the police are there to protect and serve, but not blacks. Government is supposed to operate fairly, but doesn't treat blacks equally. In effect, black lives don't matter and haven't for decades. Black men in particular are treated like trash. Thus, the phrase back lives matter is in response to claims of equality that in fact do not exist in many areas. It's not a claim that we prefer blacks, and that white lives, police lives, Santa claus or anyone else DOESN'T matter. To then say all lives matter without understanding, or let's face even TRYING to understand it just a wee bit, is akin to saying "shut up blacks." It's offensive. Everybody already cares about "all lives" and lions. Blacks want their part in "all lives matter."
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