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Post by Peace Sign on Aug 10, 2015 16:58:46 GMT
Papercraftadvocate...I didn't want to hit quote again because it's so long on here. People HAVE been crying foul in the st Louis area on that ticketing issue for years. It's that exasperation that made mike brown ignite so quickly. Now in the year since, they are slowly making some changes in ferguson. It has been a productive year but on the back of a dead kid. They weren't really organized before. Social media is helping greatly. Mike Brown ignited so quickly because he had just robbed a store and assaulted the owner, and he knew there was the potential to get caught for THAT. Mike Brown didn't ignite because of a history of jaywalking tickets, he ignited because he was a thug. Not someone Dr King would want to be representing the civil rights movement. I spoke unclearly. Said mike brown, but meant the aftermath...the huge crowds, the city. That definitely wasn't stated clearly by me. |
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Post by jonda1974 on Aug 10, 2015 17:02:50 GMT
 She said "all" lives matter. Why wouldn't that include black people's lives, too? This is why I say you (general) should educate yourselves if you wish to speak intelligently on this matter. When blacks feel left out, speaking of equality and currently speaking to police brutality as a whole and specifically aimed at black and brown people, the feeling is that black lives don't natter. It's indeed stating that the police are there to protect and serve, but not blacks. Government is supposed to operate fairly, but doesn't treat blacks equally. In effect, black lives don't matter and haven't for decades. Black men in particular are treated like trash. Thus, the phrase back lives matter is in response to claims of equality that in fact do not exist in many areas. It's not a claim that we prefer blacks, and that white lives, police lives, Santa claus or anyone else DOESN'T matter. To then say all lives matter without understanding, or let's face even TRYING to understand it just a wee bit, is akin to saying "shut up blacks." It's offensive. Everybody already cares about "all lives" and lions. Blacks want their part in "all lives matter." Convoluted concept. All lives matter. No ones is more important than the other. |
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Post by jonda1974 on Aug 10, 2015 17:06:03 GMT
I'm curious - why is it that people are able to interrupt a rally, where others have paid big bucks to attend, to get out a message but are unable to come together to protest a law (jaywalking) that they find so horrible? If the jaywalking law is so racist and unfair, and people obviously have the ability to rally together for a cause, why wasn't this cause addressed years ago? According to Peace's logic, getting rid of this law would have prevented Michael Brown's death. He wouldn't have been angry at the system and felt the need to grab for a cop's gun. If you don't like a law, you fight to get it changed. You don't keep breaking it and then complain that you got caught. I'm not equating the jaywalking with Michael Browns death, to be clear. one reason, to answer your question, is that ferguson is one of tens of small municipalities in the immediate area. Literally some have a population of 50, some have 1200, and everything in between. It is almost an impossible task. It's an interesting phenomenon around there. I'm not sure it exists anywhere else. It literally grew from racism...a large group of blacks settled there, had families, and at the height of the civil rights movement the whites just seceded and made up their own small municipalities. They took all the grocery stores, tax benefits, everything, and left that part of St. Louis to rot. Nothing illegal, but isn't it strange? Ahh yes. Blame White Flight on the reason predominantly black, inner city neighborhoods have become criminal cesspools, then fault them when they move back in and try to rebuild. |
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Post by Peace Sign on Aug 10, 2015 17:06:09 GMT
This is why I say you (general) should educate yourselves if you wish to speak intelligently on this matter. When blacks feel left out, speaking of equality and currently speaking to police brutality as a whole and specifically aimed at black and brown people, the feeling is that black lives don't natter. It's indeed stating that the police are there to protect and serve, but not blacks. Government is supposed to operate fairly, but doesn't treat blacks equally. In effect, black lives don't matter and haven't for decades. Black men in particular are treated like trash. Thus, the phrase back lives matter is in response to claims of equality that in fact do not exist in many areas. It's not a claim that we prefer blacks, and that white lives, police lives, Santa claus or anyone else DOESN'T matter. To then say all lives matter without understanding, or let's face even TRYING to understand it just a wee bit, is akin to saying "shut up blacks." It's offensive. Everybody already cares about "all lives" and lions. Blacks want their part in "all lives matter." Convoluted concept. All lives matter. No ones is more important than the other. Of course not. But they are not being treated equally. Thus black lives matter. |
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Just T
Drama Llama
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Post by Just T on Aug 10, 2015 17:12:06 GMT
I just want to clarify--Ferguson is not an inner city neighborhood. It is actually part of the northern suburbs of STL. From watching the news, one surely would think that it is indeed an inner city, blighted neighborhood, but it's not.
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Post by Peace Sign on Aug 10, 2015 17:15:08 GMT
Jonda, white flight isn't the sole reason for anything, anywhere. In ferguson and surrounding areas, it certainly is a contributing factor.
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Post by jonda1974 on Aug 10, 2015 17:18:35 GMT
There's a reason for that. They are using poster children who are not sympathetic, and have tangled histories. Quite honestly, moving on from peaceful lawful protests to being rude and disruptive is going to make people listen even less. Yes, that May be true. I'm not sure who/what child will do it for some of you. But the fact that I have oh so many to choose from should be alarming to you. Oh how the perfect peas like to judge. Show me a Rosa Parks or a MLK or a Freedom Rider, that would do it for me. A street thug...doesn't move me to be that sympathetic. |
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Post by jonda1974 on Aug 10, 2015 17:21:12 GMT
I live in a southern town where black people are respected. We have a new black chief of police. We have 2 black men on our city council. And why are black people respected here? Because they conduct themselves in a respectful manner. Marching and making demands will not solve the issue. Respect must be earned, it's not going to be handed to someone who is acting in a radical manner. I know! Life is so good I pleasantville. Until those blacks start getting out of line. Or gathering. Or going to a pool party. Goody for pleasantville. A pool party in a private gated community, to which the ones who did not live there were asked to leave and refused. Don't forget the part that they weren't supposed to be there. Wouldn't want skewed facts creating a wrong narrative. |
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Post by jonda1974 on Aug 10, 2015 17:25:24 GMT
That's the point: I have no idea whether black people are the only people who jaywalk in Ferguson and unless you live there, I don't see how you would know that either. All I know is that according to the 2010 Ferguson MO Census, more than twice as many black people live in the city than whites, Native Americans, Asian and every other ethnicity combined. So the fact that more black people are being ticketed for jaywalking (and even Peace Sign admitted that black people do, indeed, jaywalk there) is not something that I find out of the ordinary. I'm just saying that we need more factual information in order to form that judgment. I get that. But it's not really about jaywalking, rather the fact that municipalities are finding themselves by handing out these tickets and providing nothing. i can't think of anywhere that tickets jaywalking so much. It's a shitty police practice. Something I can agree with. I hate unnecessary laws that are there simply to fund the municipalities. It's a waste of valuable resources. I hate quotas for traffic tickets as well, and seatbelt laws are simply gofundme accounts for these towns. Pull the cops off traffic duty, and actually have them policing. |
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Post by jonda1974 on Aug 10, 2015 17:28:06 GMT
Actually, I think you 'suck' at understanding it. No, I'm going with your original conclusion that it's you - not me. You can't change the definition of a word to back up your irrational anger at a perfectly logical statement. All lives do matter. In many progressive ideology definitions are fluid. Just ask the original, Pres. Clinton. All equals all unless it doesn't suit the narrative. Is doesn't equal is if it means a get out of trouble free card. |
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Post by Peace Sign on Aug 10, 2015 17:29:45 GMT
Yes, that May be true. I'm not sure who/what child will do it for some of you. But the fact that I have oh so many to choose from should be alarming to you. Oh how the perfect peas like to judge. Show me a Rosa Parks or a MLK or a Freedom Rider, that would do it for me. A street thug...doesn't move me to be that sympathetic. Bree newsome pulling down a confederate flag? Shes a modern day rosa parks for sure! |
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Post by Peace Sign on Aug 10, 2015 17:30:27 GMT
I know! Life is so good I pleasantville. Until those blacks start getting out of line. Or gathering. Or going to a pool party. Goody for pleasantville. A pool party in a private gated community, to which the ones who did not live there were asked to leave and refused. Don't forget the part that they weren't supposed to be there. Wouldn't want skewed facts creating a wrong narrative. No, that's actually not true. It was a widely publicized party. |
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Post by jonda1974 on Aug 10, 2015 17:33:08 GMT
Convoluted concept. All lives matter. No ones is more important than the other. Of course not. But they are not being treated equally. Thus black lives matter. Black lives matter + Red lives matter + yellow lives matter + brown lives matter + white lives matter = all lives matter. Given that these incidents are happening primarily in low income areas, I would be more prone to say it happens as a result of the combination of economics and crime rates more so than race. |
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Post by jonda1974 on Aug 10, 2015 17:36:52 GMT
Jonda, white flight isn't the sole reason for anything, anywhere. In ferguson and surrounding areas, it certainly is a contributing factor. The concept of White Flight is ridiculous. Everyone has a right to live where they want, and to take their businesses where they want. It isn't on the backs of the people who left that these neighborhoods couldn't stay safe and crime resistant. The whole argument is a damned if they do, damned if they don't. Blame them for the problems that happen because they left, then complain when they come back in to gentrify and make those neighborhoods livable again. Yes, thanks for the above clarification from another poster on Ferguson I know it is not one of the inner city areas. |
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Post by jonda1974 on Aug 10, 2015 17:39:01 GMT
Show me a Rosa Parks or a MLK or a Freedom Rider, that would do it for me. A street thug...doesn't move me to be that sympathetic. Bree newsome pulling down a confederate flag? Shes a modern day rosa parks for sure! I agree, but she's not a poster child for the modern movement. People like Mike Brown are, and it doesn't help the cause. I can and do champion people like Bree. |
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Just T
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Post by Just T on Aug 10, 2015 17:40:02 GMT
Ok. I wasn't trying to be snotty or anything.  From watching the news, one might think it is if one isn't familiar with STL |
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Post by jonda1974 on Aug 10, 2015 17:40:35 GMT
A pool party in a private gated community, to which the ones who did not live there were asked to leave and refused. Don't forget the part that they weren't supposed to be there. Wouldn't want skewed facts creating a wrong narrative. No, that's actually not true. It was a widely publicized party. Just because it was widely publicized didn't mean it was within the parameters of the community bylaws. Social media postings don't constitute legitimacy. When asked to leave, they had an obligation to leave. |
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happymomma
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Post by happymomma on Aug 10, 2015 17:40:59 GMT
A pool party in a private gated community, to which the ones who did not live there were asked to leave and refused. Don't forget the part that they weren't supposed to be there. Wouldn't want skewed facts creating a wrong narrative. No, that's actually not true. It was a widely publicized party. Oh, and a party that people paid between $200 and $1000 to attend, only to have two people drain the pool of water, voiding the purpose of the party. |
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Post by jonda1974 on Aug 10, 2015 17:41:25 GMT
Ok. I wasn't trying to be snotty or anything. From watching the news, one might think it is if one isn't familiar with STL Oh I know you weren't. That's why I liked your post. I actually didn't realize that based on the perception given of it. I'm not familiar with STL, so it was really helpful. |
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Just T
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Post by Just T on Aug 10, 2015 17:43:38 GMT
I always think of the chicken/egg argument--what comes first? Increasing crime causing "white flight," or "white flight" causing increasing crime? I hate the term white flight by the way. I know plenty of people who live in the community I live in now who grew up in those north STL county areas who are black.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 10, 2015 17:47:14 GMT
See the news today ajp? Protests that are peaceful by these activists?? Non-existent. They don't want to be peaceful they want violence. It wasn't the protesters in ferguson who began shooting. You're of course lumping all blacks together. Because one black person controls all the others??? This post is stupid. Bullshit. And woman YOU ARE the ONLY one inserting and lumping all blacks together. Don't you dare put that on me like you inserted in another's comment. Your post IS stupid. You cannot even concede that the people of Ferguson are protesting. |
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Post by Peace Sign on Aug 10, 2015 17:50:22 GMT
Bree newsome pulling down a confederate flag? Shes a modern day rosa parks for sure! I agree, but she's not a poster child for the modern movement. People like Mike Brown are, and it doesn't help the cause. I can and do champion people like Bree. Goody |
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Post by Peace Sign on Aug 10, 2015 17:52:52 GMT
It wasn't the protesters in ferguson who began shooting. You're of course lumping all blacks together. Because one black person controls all the others??? This post is stupid. Bullshit. And woman YOU ARE the ONLY one inserting and lumping all blacks together. Don't you dare put that on me like you inserted in another's comment. Your post IS stupid. You cannot even concede that the people of Ferguson are protesting. Huh? Ummm...good one?? |
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Just T
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Post by Just T on Aug 10, 2015 17:55:37 GMT
While I can honestly say that I don't agree with most of what Peace Sign has posted here, I am going to stick up for her on this one. I think (correct me if I'm wrong, Peace Sign!) that she was referring to the fact that most of the violent protestors and rioters aren't from Ferguson. The man who was shot by police last night (who shot at them first, by the way!) is from a city about 2 hours away from here. Last summer, I remember hearing something about a group of violent protestors who were arrested who had come here from California.
Again, the way the media portrays things influences what people think. I really think that the people of Ferguson are not the ones who are destroying their city.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 10, 2015 17:56:04 GMT
There's a reason for that. They are using poster children who are not sympathetic, and have tangled histories. Quite honestly, moving on from peaceful lawful protests to being rude and disruptive is going to make people listen even less. Yes, that May be true. I'm not sure who/what child will do it for some of you. But the fact that I have oh so many to choose from should be alarming to you. Oh how the perfect peas like to judge. That's a rich one there ajp. You have been doing not much more than judging and condemning those who don't agree |
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Post by jonda1974 on Aug 10, 2015 17:56:49 GMT
I always think of the chicken/egg argument--what comes first? Increasing crime causing "white flight," or "white flight" causing increasing crime? I hate the term white flight by the way. I know plenty of people who live in the community I live in now who grew up in those north STL county areas who are black. I agree I hate the term too. And it definitely is a chicken or an egg argument which is why it is a horrible argument to make. Either way it's weak. If they left because of crime, who can blame them, if they left and crime happened who can blame them. And you're right it's not just white people leaving those areas. Take a look at the Bronx, I encounter so many people desperately trying to escape living in the Bronx, and they are anything but white, but they certainly don't want to live there any more...same with Newark. |
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Deleted
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Oct 6, 2024 12:33:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2015 17:57:08 GMT
IMO, the "black lives matter" activist only stand for thugs. They should change their name to "thug lives matter"
If they need a person to rally behind, pick one of the many black small business owners running a mom and pop business that ended up being burned/looted in the aftermath of micheal brown's thuggery. But we don't hear about them.... just those with a criminal record.
Michael brown was bent on destroying his community. Those who lift him up as an emblem are carrying on that legacy of community destruction.
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Post by jonda1974 on Aug 10, 2015 17:57:37 GMT
I agree, but she's not a poster child for the modern movement. People like Mike Brown are, and it doesn't help the cause. I can and do champion people like Bree. Goody Condescending even when someone is agreeing with you...yeah, you're going to make great strides for this movement. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 10, 2015 17:58:00 GMT
I live in a southern town where black people are respected. We have a new black chief of police. We have 2 black men on our city council. And why are black people respected here? Because they conduct themselves in a respectful manner. Marching and making demands will not solve the issue. Respect must be earned, it's not going to be handed to someone who is acting in a radical manner. I know! Life is so good I pleasantville. Until those blacks start getting out of line. Or gathering. Or going to a pool party. Goody for pleasantville. You are a disgrace to humanity. |
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Post by Peace Sign on Aug 10, 2015 17:58:41 GMT
While I can honestly say that I don't agree with most of what Peace Sign has posted here, I am going to stick up for her on this one. I think (correct me if I'm wrong, Peace Sign!) that she was referring to the fact that most of the violent protestors and rioters aren't from Ferguson. The man who was shot by police last night (who shot at them first, by the way!) is from a city about 2 hours away from here. Last summer, I remember hearing something about a group of violent protestors who were arrested who had come here from California.
Again, the way the media portrays things influences what people think. I really think that the people of Ferguson are not the ones who are destroying their city.
yes. Of course the people of ferguson are protesting. I'm not sure where she thought I was disagreeing with that. |
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She said "all" lives matter. Why wouldn't that include black people's lives, too?
From watching the news, one might think it is if one isn't familiar with STL
