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Post by Peace Sign on Aug 10, 2015 15:49:04 GMT
But they were committing crimes, petty ones but still on the books as unlawful. Behave lawfully, don't be arrested. Clearly, you live in pleasantville with your head in the sand. You should stop talking.
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Post by Regina Phalange on Aug 10, 2015 15:50:44 GMT
She said "all" lives matter. Why wouldn't that include black people's lives, too? This is why I say you (general) should educate yourselves if you wish to speak intelligently on this matter. When blacks feel left out, speaking of equality and currently speaking to police brutality as a whole and specifically aimed at black and brown people, the feeling is that black lives don't natter. It's indeed stating that the police are there to protect and serve, but not blacks. Government is supposed to operate fairly, but doesn't treat blacks equally. In effect, black lives don't matter and haven't for decades. Black men in particular are treated like trash. Thus, the phrase back lives matter is in response to claims of equality that in fact do not exist in many areas. It's not a claim that we prefer blacks, and that white lives, police lives, Santa claus or anyone else DOESN'T matter. To then say all lives matter without understanding, or let's face even TRYING to understand it just a wee bit, is akin to saying "shut up blacks." It's offensive. Everybody already cares about "all lives" and lions. Blacks want their part in "all lives matter." Thank you for saying it better than I could!
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Post by Peace Sign on Aug 10, 2015 15:57:37 GMT
I'm curious - why is it that people are able to interrupt a rally, where others have paid big bucks to attend, to get out a message but are unable to come together to protest a law (jaywalking) that they find so horrible? If the jaywalking law is so racist and unfair, and people obviously have the ability to rally together for a cause, why wasn't this cause addressed years ago? According to Peace's logic, getting rid of this law would have prevented Michael Brown's death. He wouldn't have been angry at the system and felt the need to grab for a cop's gun. If you don't like a law, you fight to get it changed. You don't keep breaking it and then complain that you got caught. I'm not equating the jaywalking with Michael Browns death, to be clear. one reason, to answer your question, is that ferguson is one of tens of small municipalities in the immediate area. Literally some have a population of 50, some have 1200, and everything in between. It is almost an impossible task. It's an interesting phenomenon around there. I'm not sure it exists anywhere else. It literally grew from racism...a large group of blacks settled there, had families, and at the height of the civil rights movement the whites just seceded and made up their own small municipalities. They took all the grocery stores, tax benefits, everything, and left that part of St. Louis to rot. Nothing illegal, but isn't it strange?
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georgiapea
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,846
Jun 27, 2014 18:02:10 GMT
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Post by georgiapea on Aug 10, 2015 15:59:08 GMT
And you. Dear Peace Sign, have a user name that does not match your attitude. You just want to argue, not solve anything.
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Post by Peace Sign on Aug 10, 2015 16:06:04 GMT
And you. Dear Peace Sign, have a user name that does not match your attitude. You just want to argue, not solve anything. No, I'm having a discussion with people on this thread, while certain others are chiming in with important, helpful, and very simple statements such as yours. Stop jaywalking!!! If you think this is all about jaywalking, then you're not really using your head. There isn't anything here to solve on a message board thread. We're discussing. We heard you. Either contribute something else or be quiet.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 12:33:46 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2015 16:09:09 GMT
I'm curious - why is it that people are able to interrupt a rally, where others have paid big bucks to attend, to get out a message but are unable to come together to protest a law (jaywalking) that they find so horrible? If the jaywalking law is so racist and unfair, and people obviously have the ability to rally together for a cause, why wasn't this cause addressed years ago? According to Peace's logic, getting rid of this law would have prevented Michael Brown's death. He wouldn't have been angry at the system and felt the need to grab for a cop's gun. If you don't like a law, you fight to get it changed. You don't keep breaking it and then complain that you got caught. I'm not equating the jaywalking with Michael Browns death, to be clear. one reason, to answer your question, is that ferguson is one of tens of small municipalities in the immediate area. Literally some have a population of 50, some have 1200, and everything in between. It is almost an impossible task. It's an interesting phenomenon around there. I'm not sure it exists anywhere else. It literally grew from racism...a large group of blacks settled there, had families, and at the height of the civil rights movement the whites just seceded and made up their own small municipalities. They took all the grocery stores, tax benefits, everything, and left that part of St. Louis to rot. Nothing illegal, but isn't it strange? 5 pages of calling people names that disagree with her. Awesome! I think this says much more about her than anyone else on the thread, but that's just me.
It IS possible to disagree...even strongly disagree with people WITHOUT calling them names.
And remember, the grocery stores and other neighborhood markets that stay in neighborhoods are looted and burned to the ground. Shall I remind you with images from Ferguson, Baltimore?
Why would ANY store stay open, or choose to open when the neighborhood they serve have zero respect for them being there?
You're only looking at one side. No surprise.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 12:33:46 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2015 16:10:53 GMT
You suck at explaining it, because it can not rationally be explained how the definition of "all" doesn't mean all anymore. Even if you add the "implied too" at the end, it still means "all". And black lives are included in that "all".
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Post by Peace Sign on Aug 10, 2015 16:14:35 GMT
I'm not equating the jaywalking with Michael Browns death, to be clear. one reason, to answer your question, is that ferguson is one of tens of small municipalities in the immediate area. Literally some have a population of 50, some have 1200, and everything in between. It is almost an impossible task. It's an interesting phenomenon around there. I'm not sure it exists anywhere else. It literally grew from racism...a large group of blacks settled there, had families, and at the height of the civil rights movement the whites just seceded and made up their own small municipalities. They took all the grocery stores, tax benefits, everything, and left that part of St. Louis to rot. Nothing illegal, but isn't it strange? 5 pages of calling people names that disagree with her. Awesome! I think this says much more about her than anyone else on the thread, but that's just me.
It IS possible to disagree...even strongly disagree with people WITHOUT calling them names.
And remember, the grocery stores and other neighborhood markets that stay in neighborhoods are looted and burned to the ground. Shall I remind you with images from Ferguson, Baltimore?
Why would ANY store stay open, or choose to open when the neighborhood they serve have zero respect for them being there?
You're only looking at one side. No surprise.
And you're having some issues reading things. What I just explained happened in the 60s you moron. It has nothing to do with rioting or anything else. I was explaining how St. Louis ended up split into all the municipalities. Read much?
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Post by anxiousmom on Aug 10, 2015 16:15:28 GMT
You know, I read these threads and wonder if some of the issues we (the global we) have with conversations like this is that we are fairly diverse in our ages and stages in life. We know that communication between generations can be confusing-mostly because different expectations of how things 'should' work.
It isn't that they don't understand each other, it is just that they see different solutions to problems.
Just a thought.
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Post by Regina Phalange on Aug 10, 2015 16:23:25 GMT
You suck at explaining it, because it can not rationally be explained how the definition of "all" doesn't mean all anymore. Even if you add the "implied too" at the end, it still means "all". And black lives are included in that "all". Actually, I think you 'suck' at understanding it.
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Post by jonda1974 on Aug 10, 2015 16:23:45 GMT
Apply for a permit and conduct your own rally on the day of your choice. They do. And they don't feel heard. So they're moving on from that. There's a reason for that. They are using poster children who are not sympathetic, and have tangled histories. Quite honestly, moving on from peaceful lawful protests to being rude and disruptive is going to make people listen even less.
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Aug 10, 2015 16:27:58 GMT
It's amazing how some people can justify inappropriate behavior and general assholedom.
I'm very passionate about my disgust with these two women and those who support or justify their behavior.
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Just T
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,812
Jun 26, 2014 1:20:09 GMT
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Post by Just T on Aug 10, 2015 16:30:00 GMT
This really confuses me. I grew up in North St. Louis County. Not Ferguson, but Spanish Lake, which isn't far. I was in high school in the late 70s/early 80s. I played sports in HS, and we were in the same conference as the Ferguson Florissant school district. This was well past the height of the civil rights movement, and I can assure you, it was more than a large settlement of blacks. There were definitely other school districts, such as Berkeley and Normandy there were indeed mostly black, but FF was not one of them. I became friends with a girl from McCluer High School (which is in FF school district). I spent a lot of time in Ferguson, where she lived, because I became friends with her friends. It was not a mostly black community at that time. It was actually a nice, middle class suburb of St. Louis with shopping centers, grocery stores, etc. I also had a good friend who lived in nearby Dellwood...same thing.
I moved away from STL after high school, went to college in IL, got married, moved to Omaha, and moved back to the STL area 9 years after I graduated from high school. Many of my high school friends still lived in the North County area, but it was definitely going downhill and seemed more run down and crime ridden, but this was in the early 90s. Many people I knew started moving west away from that area, and a large part of the North County area is now very economically depressed and some parts of it are quite crime ridden. I can think of one area where I spent a lot of time in HS where I would be nervous driving through during the day now. Even Spanish Lake, which was once a new, upcoming area when we moved there in the mid 70s. My high school was less than 25% black, and now, it is mostly black.
I wrote all that to say that whites didn't abandon that part of STL at the height of the civil rights movement. I think it is something just gradually happened over the past 20-30 years. I actually still know a few people who live in Ferguson--my best friend from high school's sister lives there and loves it. Or at least she did until all this mess. Now, not so much. The parents of a friend of mine from high school still live there as well.
I live only about 12 miles from Ferguson, and I think it is really, really sad what has happened there. And I hate how the media has played into it, too. So many times, what is reported in the national news is vastly different that what is really happening. They take one little snippet and report on only that, which just infuriates me. A good example...early this morning, I watched Today in St. Louis and they were talking about the man who was shot by police and is in critical condition. Right from the beginning, the reporter said that the man began firing on some plainclothes detectives, and they ended up shooting him. On the Today show later (national today show) they started off by playing the audio of lots of shots being fired, a man being shot by police, etc, and were well into the story before they shared the very important little tidbit that the man fired on the police first. It's so infuriating, but it shouldn't have surprised me because they did that last summer, too. I remember one time, a big deal was being made about the fact that so few LEO in Ferguson were black. What they failed to report in the national news is that very few blacks even applied to be LEO in Ferguson.
Sorry for that being so long winded. This whole thing just stirs up a lot of passion and anger in me. I think living here we get a much clearer picture than those who don't and only hear what they hear from the national news.
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Post by katieanna on Aug 10, 2015 16:30:13 GMT
The question is: How many whites are actually in the area (which, from what has been reported, is mostly a black area) and are actually jaywalking? That is the information that we don't have. If the population is "almost 100% black", then wouldn't it stand to reason that "almost 100%" of the jaywalking tickets would be given to blacks? The statistic isn't being quoted from a population perspective, it's from a perspective of "blacks are being ticketed but whites aren't." Do you honestly think that only black people jaywalk in Ferguson?
That's the point: I have no idea whether black people are the only people who jaywalk in Ferguson and unless you live there, I don't see how you would know that either. All I know is that according to the 2010 Ferguson MO Census, more than twice as many black people live in the city than whites, Native Americans, Asian and every other ethnicity combined. So the fact that more black people are being ticketed for jaywalking (and even Peace Sign admitted that black people do, indeed, jaywalk there) is not something that I find out of the ordinary. I'm just saying that we need more factual information in order to form that judgment.
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,969
Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
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Post by AnotherPea on Aug 10, 2015 16:33:49 GMT
apparently neither you or the author can explain it well because the article is total BS.
Someone once again wanting to be special and find offense.
When you say that "all lives matter" minimizes "black lives matter" you are in essence saying that black lives matter more. That just isn't the case. ALL lives matter. Some lives have different obstacles than other lives. It would be great if we could reduce obstacles for everyone, recognizing that everyone struggles, just in different ways and to different extents.
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georgiapea
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,846
Jun 27, 2014 18:02:10 GMT
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Post by georgiapea on Aug 10, 2015 16:33:52 GMT
I live in a southern town where black people are respected. We have a new black chief of police. We have 2 black men on our city council. And why are black people respected here? Because they conduct themselves in a respectful manner. Marching and making demands will not solve the issue. Respect must be earned, it's not going to be handed to someone who is acting in a radical manner.
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Post by Peace Sign on Aug 10, 2015 16:34:53 GMT
They do. And they don't feel heard. So they're moving on from that. There's a reason for that. They are using poster children who are not sympathetic, and have tangled histories. Quite honestly, moving on from peaceful lawful protests to being rude and disruptive is going to make people listen even less. Yes, that May be true. I'm not sure who/what child will do it for some of you. But the fact that I have oh so many to choose from should be alarming to you. Oh how the perfect peas like to judge.
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Aug 10, 2015 16:39:01 GMT
Exactly. It's the same nonsense that these people spout about blacks not being able to be racist or ignoring the number of blacks who kills whites (including white police officers).
We don't claim to be perfect. we just don't adhere to the "victim" mentality and the demands for "equal" treatment while actually demanding "special" treatment.
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Post by Peace Sign on Aug 10, 2015 16:39:38 GMT
I live in a southern town where black people are respected. We have a new black chief of police. We have 2 black men on our city council. And why are black people respected here? Because they conduct themselves in a respectful manner. Marching and making demands will not solve the issue. Respect must be earned, it's not going to be handed to someone who is acting in a radical manner. I know! Life is so good I pleasantville. Until those blacks start getting out of line. Or gathering. Or going to a pool party. Goody for pleasantville.
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,969
Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
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Post by AnotherPea on Aug 10, 2015 16:40:14 GMT
5 pages of calling people names that disagree with her. Awesome! I think this says much more about her than anyone else on the thread, but that's just me.
It IS possible to disagree...even strongly disagree with people WITHOUT calling them names.
And remember, the grocery stores and other neighborhood markets that stay in neighborhoods are looted and burned to the ground. Shall I remind you with images from Ferguson, Baltimore?
Why would ANY store stay open, or choose to open when the neighborhood they serve have zero respect for them being there?
You're only looking at one side. No surprise.
And you're having some issues reading things. What I just explained happened in the 60s you moron. It has nothing to do with rioting or anything else. I was explaining how St. Louis ended up split into all the municipalities. Read much? I understand now why you support the women from the rally. You use the same tactics.
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Aug 10, 2015 16:40:30 GMT
You're so dismissive of other's viewpoints while demanding that people see it your way.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 12:33:46 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2015 16:41:43 GMT
And you. Dear Peace Sign, have a user name that does not match your attitude. You just want to argue, not solve anything. No, I'm having a discussion with people on this thread, while certain others are chiming in with important, helpful, and very simple statements such as yours. Stop jaywalking!!! If you think this is all about jaywalking, then you're not really using your head. There isn't anything here to solve on a message board thread. We're discussing. We heard you. Either contribute something else or be quiet. It doesn't help the discussion to call people stupid, uneducated and to tell them to be quiet, stop talking and shut up. So GeorgiaPea is right, your name doesn't match your attitude.
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Post by Peace Sign on Aug 10, 2015 16:44:59 GMT
The statistic isn't being quoted from a population perspective, it's from a perspective of "blacks are being ticketed but whites aren't." Do you honestly think that only black people jaywalk in Ferguson?
That's the point: I have no idea whether black people are the only people who jaywalk in Ferguson and unless you live there, I don't see how you would know that either. All I know is that according to the 2010 Ferguson MO Census, more than twice as many black people live in the city than whites, Native Americans, Asian and every other ethnicity combined. So the fact that more black people are being ticketed for jaywalking (and even Peace Sign admitted that black people do, indeed, jaywalk there) is not something that I find out of the ordinary. I'm just saying that we need more factual information in order to form that judgment. I get that. But it's not really about jaywalking, rather the fact that municipalities are finding themselves by handing out these tickets and providing nothing. i can't think of anywhere that tickets jaywalking so much. It's a shitty police practice.
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Post by jonda1974 on Aug 10, 2015 16:45:51 GMT
That was a super condensed version of the longtime problems in ferguson. Yes, jaywalking is against the law. Yes, blacks make up the majority of the ferguson population. But some are stopped 3x a week and there are no sidewalks in their communities. Fines can be $350. They go unpaid because the working poor don't have a spare $350. Then people come to their homes and arrest them. Then they lose their jobs. Then YOU are supporting them. Isn't it more productive to find another way to fund your city? Aside from ferguson, there are a million teeny municipalities in the area. You can drive down a road and in a mile go through three separate municipalities. They each have a police force. And they ALL fund themselves like this. It's unfair, disgusting and yes, very racially motivated. It's nonsense. You literally HAVE to go through these areas to get anywhere. This is much much more than "stop jaywalking, people!" Let's be honest we have entire communities being victimized by how laws are applied. If the laws were applied equally then there is no issue, the problem is they aren't. It isn't just black v white, but poor v rich. So Lebron's kid probably isn't going to have the same problem as Joe Average's kid for the same thing. FWIW - I don't care if Michael Brown was guilty of this that or the other. In our nation we are not supposed to impose the death penalty without a trial by jury. Seriously, how can anyone be ok with Michael Brown being killed by the state and yet James Holmes lives. This is the sort of inequality that is seen and is troubling. Michael Brown tried to grab an officer's gun. He charged a police officer. The Federal government found that to be the same case and facts as the grand jury. He died because he tried to grab an officers weapon. His death is on his hands. If James Holmes had done the same thing, he would have died the same way.
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Aug 10, 2015 16:47:04 GMT
Oh don't go quoting facts, Jonda. They're simply not important to the rhetoric.
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Post by Peace Sign on Aug 10, 2015 16:47:17 GMT
And you're having some issues reading things. What I just explained happened in the 60s you moron. It has nothing to do with rioting or anything else. I was explaining how St. Louis ended up split into all the municipalities. Read much? I understand now why you support the women from the rally. You use the same tactics. Just tired of your ridiculous bs. As if you're speaking so nicely...
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Post by jonda1974 on Aug 10, 2015 16:49:39 GMT
Papercraftadvocate...I didn't want to hit quote again because it's so long on here. People HAVE been crying foul in the st Louis area on that ticketing issue for years. It's that exasperation that made mike brown ignite so quickly. Now in the year since, they are slowly making some changes in ferguson. It has been a productive year but on the back of a dead kid. They weren't really organized before. Social media is helping greatly. Mike Brown ignited so quickly because he had just robbed a store and assaulted the owner, and he knew there was the potential to get caught for THAT. Mike Brown didn't ignite because of a history of jaywalking tickets, he ignited because he was a thug. Not someone Dr King would want to be representing the civil rights movement.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 12:33:46 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2015 16:50:20 GMT
You suck at explaining it, because it can not rationally be explained how the definition of "all" doesn't mean all anymore. Even if you add the "implied too" at the end, it still means "all". And black lives are included in that "all". Actually, I think you 'suck' at understanding it. No, I'm going with your original conclusion that it's you - not me. You can't change the definition of a word to back up your irrational anger at a perfectly logical statement. All lives do matter.
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,969
Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
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Post by AnotherPea on Aug 10, 2015 16:50:45 GMT
I understand now why you support the women from the rally. You use the same tactics. Just tired of your ridiculous bs. As if you're speaking so nicely... really? Please show me where on this thread I called names and tossed insults. I will happily apologize.
My grandmother used to say that people who cuss do so because they don't have the intelligence to come up with a good argument. I don't think that all name-callers are stupid, but I do think it is a lazy way to duck out of a discussion.
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Post by katieanna on Aug 10, 2015 16:53:16 GMT
She said "all" lives matter. Why wouldn't that include black people's lives, too? This is why I say you (general) should educate yourselves if you wish to speak intelligently on this matter. When blacks feel left out, speaking of equality and currently speaking to police brutality as a whole and specifically aimed at black and brown people, the feeling is that black lives don't natter. It's indeed stating that the police are there to protect and serve, but not blacks. Government is supposed to operate fairly, but doesn't treat blacks equally. In effect, black lives don't matter and haven't for decades. Black men in particular are treated like trash. Thus, the phrase back lives matter is in response to claims of equality that in fact do not exist in many areas. It's not a claim that we prefer blacks, and that white lives, police lives, Santa claus or anyone else DOESN'T matter. To then say all lives matter without understanding, or let's face even TRYING to understand it just a wee bit, is akin to saying "shut up blacks." It's offensive. Everybody already cares about "all lives" and lions. Blacks want their part in "all lives matter." Then we're talking perspective here. I live approximately 25-30 miles outside Baltimore MD. There isn't a night on the news that black people aren't prominently featured on the news, whether the news is good or bad. Whether it's politics, civic programs, industry and trade, the majority of the people portrayed are black. So I would say that black people matter very much in and around Baltimore MD, at least, according to what I see on the news. If there are areas were black people feel that they aren't being heard and that their lives don't matter - do they honestly think they're going to be heard in a positive way or make their lives matter by being disruptive and abusive as they displayed themselves to be at the Sanders' rally? Like I said, a lot of this has to do with where you live and the information that you receive. Blacks have made tremendous strides since the 1960s, as they should have and as is right, but admittedly there is a way to go. Just remember....you can't fight fire with fire.
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