Olan
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Post by Olan on Mar 26, 2017 16:01:14 GMT
I was trying to research if I was right about Recy Taylor accusers offering her monetary compensation after the second jury found them not guilty but I gave up after finding this. The apology came more than seven decades after her rape. I winced when I read she was 91. Imagine living that long after experiencing that type of injustice? How much of her life did she think about what happened to her? Do you think America should issue a blanket apology to black people? Personally I'd be more interested in monetary compensation. Mary TurnerGeorgetown University Genealogy Link
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AnotherPea
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Post by AnotherPea on Mar 26, 2017 16:33:31 GMT
Who would be making the apology? And to whom? All black people? Or just the descendants of slaves? Just the survivors and descendants of hate crimes?
Let's take it back just one year ago. Would Obama be asked to make a blanket statement of apology to the country? Or is that saved for the white men in power? Would Obama receive an apology? Even though, as a biracial man, his parental line has nothing to do with American slavery or American injustice?
Is the apology reserved for just black people? What about white family members of black people? The white women married to black men? The biracial children who look black or the ones that look white?
The history books are filled with tales of injustice. It sucks a thousand times over. But blanket apologies aren't the answer. You'd have to issue apologies to each and every group that has ever been marginalized in American society at some time. Women, immigrants, Japanese, Hispanics, each Native American tribe, the list could go on forever.
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Post by freecharlie on Mar 26, 2017 16:57:41 GMT
I am curious what an apology does. Is it going to make lives better? Who is apologizing?
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Mar 26, 2017 17:43:07 GMT
Who would be making the apology? And to whom? All black people? Or just the descendants of slaves? Just the survivors and descendants of hate crimes? Let's take it back just one year ago. Would Obama be asked to make a blanket statement of apology to the country? Or is that saved for the white men in power? Would Obama receive an apology? Even though, as a biracial man, his parental line has nothing to do with American slavery or American injustice? Is the apology reserved for just black people? What about white family members of black people? The white women married to black men? The biracial children who look black or the ones that look white? The history books are filled with tales of injustice. It sucks a thousand times over. But blanket apologies aren't the answer. You'd have to issue apologies to each and every group that has ever been marginalized in American society at some time. Women, immigrants, Japanese, Hispanics, each Native American tribe, the list could go on forever. You've asked a lot of questions. I'll try to tackle them all. I would think that the American government would make the apology. The apology would extend to the descendants of the enslaved but I guess if you were asking just me I would start with those living. If President Obama was standing president at the time of the apology he would have made it. Again if you were asking just me that would have been a perfect time especially with Michele Obamas ties to the White House. What do you think the answer is? If an apology isn't it. Nothing? You mentioned if the descendants of the slaves deserved an apology "where would the list end"? We do know that the Native American "apology" involved a shit ton of land but where those pipelines goes who knows right? Enslaved blacks were also supposed to be given 40 acres and a mule but I don't think anyone paid up. Native Americans
Native Americans
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Ruby Might Like A Sorry
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Mar 26, 2017 18:23:02 GMT
I am curious what an apology does. Is it going to make lives better? Who is apologizing? Recy Taylor is alive. The state of Alabama could ask her before she dies. My guess is in some cases the apology won't matter. I think Jennifer was under the impression that the American government had never apologized to anyone. They have. So the next question is why is everyone more deserving of a sorry than black people. Jewish people would be another group of people to ask "Hey did that apology really mean anything to you guys". I think we know what they'd say right? To answer your question who should do the apologizing....for a group of women who love genealogy so much I'm surprised you'd be opposed to researching and righting past actions of our great country. Georgetown knows the exact number of those sold to save the school and their names. We aren't talking thousands of years ago. Most plantations were great at record keeping. It was a business that generated the revenue used to build this country so you bet they did. The Smithsonian has a wall filled with the names of the enslaved along with a short description. One of them read "Fatima age 40 does nothing" Slave Narratives/Receipts |
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Post by freecharlie on Mar 26, 2017 19:37:37 GMT
But what does blanket apology do for her? Apology from her attackers? Might be something, but if it was me I tell them to stuff it.
Apology from the people who stood in the way of justice, sure...but a blanket apology?
I have no issue with individuals apologizing or individual states for their roles, but a blanket apology seems both over the top and not enough. There isn't anything that can rectify slavery or the horrors blacks (and other minorities) endured for years, decades, centuries.
Would it make you feel better if the US government said, sorry about that?
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peagia13
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Sept 2, 2016 19:52:32 GMT
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Post by peagia13 on Mar 26, 2017 19:44:31 GMT
Life isn't fair.
Bad stuff happens to all people.
Blanket apologies do nothing.
Only forgiveness heals.
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Nov 23, 2024 1:10:57 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2017 20:14:43 GMT
We apologize by studying and remembering so we do not repeat.
And We apologize by teaching our children to good, decent, caring people.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Mar 26, 2017 20:17:44 GMT
But what does blanket apology do for her? Apology from her attackers? Might be something, but if it was me I tell them to stuff it. Apology from the people who stood in the way of justice, sure...but a blanket apology? I have no issue with inidivudala apologizing or individual states for their roles, but a blanket apology seems both over the top and not enough. There isn't anything that can rectify slavery or the horrors blacks (and other minorities) endured for years, decades, centuries. Would it make you feel better if the US government said, sorry about that? She didn't receive a blanket apology. The state of Alabama didn't prosecute her rapists and said sorry seven decades later. It was a grave injustice to be gang raped on your way home from church and then have your attackers free to offer you whatever they think you're worth. All state sanctioned. Two trials. Maybe it made her feel better? Do you think it made it worse? That was 1944. 41 years later I was born. Reagan was president. And yes I think even a blanket apology would be better than the blatant denial. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2017 20:21:16 GMT
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Post by freecharlie on Mar 26, 2017 20:23:39 GMT
But what does blanket apology do for her? Apology from her attackers? Might be something, but if it was me I tell them to stuff it. Apology from the people who stood in the way of justice, sure...but a blanket apology? I have no issue with inidivudala apologizing or individual states for their roles, but a blanket apology seems both over the top and not enough. There isn't anything that can rectify slavery or the horrors blacks (and other minorities) endured for years, decades, centuries. Would it make you feel better if the US government said, sorry about that? She didn't receive a blanket apology. The state of Alabama didn't prosecute her rapists and said sorry seven decades later. It was a grave injustice to be gang raped on your way home from church and then have your attackers free to offer you whatever they think you're worth. All state sanctioned. Two trials. Maybe it made her feel better? Do you think it made it worse? That was 1944. 41 years later I was born. Reagan was president. And yes I think even a blanket apology would be better than the blatant denial. Your OP asked "Do you think America should issue a blanket apology to black people?" I'm answering in a general sense, not just in this case. I don't believe the state sanctioned the rape. I think there was definitely a fail on the justice system. I'm not sure what your year of birth and Reagan being president has to do with the rest of the post. |
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Post by M~ on Mar 26, 2017 20:24:42 GMT
I was trying to research if I was right about Recy Taylor accusers offering her monetary compensation after the second jury found them not guilty but I gave up after finding this. The apology came more than seven decades after her rape. I winced when I read she was 91. Imagine living that long after experiencing that type of injustice? How much of her life did she think about what happened to her? Do you think America should issue a blanket apology to black people? Personally I'd be more interested in monetary compensation. Mary TurnerGeorgetown University Genealogy Link
Detailed AccountsTo answer your question specifically, I think America and Africa and Europe should offer apologies to the descendants of slaves. Africans were also involved in the enslavement of their own people for western slave trade. Having said that, Europeans owe a hell of an apology to native Mexicans, central, and south Americans while we're at it. I don't believe in monetary compensation. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Mar 26, 2017 20:30:17 GMT
I mentioned most of what you shared above. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Mar 26, 2017 20:31:37 GMT
She didn't receive a blanket apology. The state of Alabama didn't prosecute her rapists and said sorry seven decades later. It was a grave injustice to be gang raped on your way home from church and then have your attackers free to offer you whatever they think you're worth. All state sanctioned. Two trials. Maybe it made her feel better? Do you think it made it worse? That was 1944. 41 years later I was born. Reagan was president. And yes I think even a blanket apology would be better than the blatant denial. Your OP asked "Do you think America should issue a blanket apology to black people?" I'm answering in a general sense, not just in this case. I don't believe the state sanctioned the rape. I think there was definitely a fail on the justice system. I'm not sure what your year of birth and Reagan being president has to do with the rest of the post. A societal failure when you consider it went to a jury trial twice. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Mar 26, 2017 20:46:05 GMT
We apologize by studying and remembering so we do not repeat. And We apologize by teaching our children to good, decent, caring people. How is America doing in this regard? The NY stabbing and the South Carolina church shooting? He opened fire in a church full of black parishoners then the state of S.C. said "But first let's get you something to eat". I found that incredibly troubling and I don't even pay taxes in SC. It's like the jig is up but we have to keep pretending so as not to hurt the "good white people" feelings. Or in Colin K's case remain employable! You can't be In Cancun chanting build a wall, and on college campuses watching Latoya become Recy yet say we're on the path of reconciliation. From my experience both offline and here at 2peas is no one really wants to talk about what really happened to black people. Or what's currently happening for that matter. Either it's deflection, sugarcoating the atrocities, all people are purple or down right denial from what I've seen. Edited to Add: I could have also just said 45 is President and dropped the mic. For me that was a very defining comment as an American. If I am being honest I felt betrayed. Wake up feeling relatively safe and by nights end I legit thought about responding to my ex husbands apology email. An email Oddly timed and mighty guilt ridden. Not as bad as the Adele Grammy moment but close. I had a panicked thought that if shit went all bad I would at least want my owner to be someone I know. Seriously. The moments I've felt more safe is sadly because Muslims and hombres seems to be getting the brunt of this decades injustice. |
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Post by pierogi on Mar 26, 2017 20:48:31 GMT
Georgetown University is looking at setting up full scholarships for the descendants of those slaves. I think that would be a nice gesture and a start. I hope they continue the whole dialogue about how the Jesuits came to use slave labor in the first place and put a face on those who were previously faceless and nameless and forgotten.
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Post by pierogi on Mar 26, 2017 20:54:29 GMT
We apologize by studying and remembering so we do not repeat. And We apologize by teaching our children to good, decent, caring people. How is America doing in this regard? The NY stabbing and the South Carolina church shooting? He opened fire in a church full of black parishoners then the state of S.C. said "But first let's get you something to eat". I found that incredibly troubling and I don't even pay taxes in SC. It's like the jig is up but we have to keep pretending so as not to hurt the "good white people" feelings. Or in Colin K's case remain employable! You can't be In Cancun chanting build a wall, and on college campuses watching Latoya become Recy yet say we're on the path of reconciliation. From my experience both offline and here at 2peas is no one really wants to talk about what really happened to black people. Or what's currently happening for that matter. Either it's deflection, sugarcoating the atrocities, all people are purple or down right denial from what I've seen. We are failing, frankly. |
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Post by M~ on Mar 26, 2017 21:59:01 GMT
We apologize by studying and remembering so we do not repeat. And We apologize by teaching our children to good, decent, caring people. How is America doing in this regard? The NY stabbing and the South Carolina church shooting? He opened fire in a church full of black parishoners then the state of S.C. said "But first let's get you something to eat". I found that incredibly troubling and I don't even pay taxes in SC. It's like the jig is up but we have to keep pretending so as not to hurt the "good white people" feelings. Or in Colin K's case remain employable! You can't be In Cancun chanting build a wall, and on college campuses watching Latoya become Recy yet say we're on the path of reconciliation. From my experience both offline and here at 2peas is no one really wants to talk about what really happened to black people. Or what's currently happening for that matter. Either it's deflection, sugarcoating the atrocities, all people are purple or down right denial from what I've seen. Edited to Add: I could have also just said 45 is President and dropped the mic. For me that was a very defining comment as an American. If I am being honest I felt betrayed. Wake up feeling relatively safe and by nights end I legit thought about responding to my ex husbands apology email. An email Oddly timed and mighty guilt ridden. Not as bad as the Adele Grammy moment but close. I had a panicked thought that if shit went all bad I would at least want my owner to be someone I know. Seriously. The moments I've felt more safe is sadly because Muslims and hombres seems to be getting the brunt of this decades injustice. I don't understand the "Adele reference." What at is currently happening to black people? Part of the problem for me are these broad statements. I must say, quite honestly, that I have been around black people who contribute to the race problem. I've had black people tell me all sorts of inappropriate things, such as-they're not going to fire me because I'm black and I will use that card. All except three of the black attorneys in my office have been pulled from judges and are pool attorneys because they are the lowest producers. They are also the ones who produce the worst work. Yet these attorneys constantly bitch about promotions and more benefits. I have overheard hearing clerks say the same thing. Two hearing clerks actually comb their supervisor's hair. One hearing clerk has mad skills but people have a hard time understanding her written work and when she speaks. I can go on. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Mar 26, 2017 22:08:09 GMT
How is America doing in this regard? The NY stabbing and the South Carolina church shooting? He opened fire in a church full of black parishoners then the state of S.C. said "But first let's get you something to eat". I found that incredibly troubling and I don't even pay taxes in SC. It's like the jig is up but we have to keep pretending so as not to hurt the "good white people" feelings. Or in Colin K's case remain employable! You can't be In Cancun chanting build a wall, and on college campuses watching Latoya become Recy yet say we're on the path of reconciliation. From my experience both offline and here at 2peas is no one really wants to talk about what really happened to black people. Or what's currently happening for that matter. Either it's deflection, sugarcoating the atrocities, all people are purple or down right denial from what I've seen. Edited to Add: I could have also just said 45 is President and dropped the mic. For me that was a very defining comment as an American. If I am being honest I felt betrayed. Wake up feeling relatively safe and by nights end I legit thought about responding to my ex husbands apology email. An email Oddly timed and mighty guilt ridden. Not as bad as the Adele Grammy moment but close. I had a panicked thought that if shit went all bad I would at least want my owner to be someone I know. Seriously. The moments I've felt more safe is sadly because Muslims and hombres seems to be getting the brunt of this decades injustice. I don't understand the "Adele reference." What at is currently happening to black people? Part of the problem for me are these broad statements. I must say, quite honestly, that I have been around black people who contribute to the race problem. I've had black people tell me all sorts of inappropriate things, such as-they're not going to fire me because I'm black and I will use that card. All except three of the black attorneys in my office have been pulled from judges and are pool attorneys because they are the lowest producers. They are also the ones who produce the worst work. Yet these attorneys constantly bitch about promotions and more benefits. I have overheard hearing clerks say the same thing. Two hearing clerks actually comb their supervisor's hair. One hearing clerk has mad skills but people have a hard time understanding her written work and when she speaks. I can go on. I'm sure you could. I could tell you a couple office stories as well. Broad statements? Haven't you made many many many in your short statement? I think everyone should come to the table with some knowledge about the world around them not just their office politics diatribes but whatever. |
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Post by M~ on Mar 26, 2017 22:17:08 GMT
I don't understand the "Adele reference." What at is currently happening to black people? Part of the problem for me are these broad statements. I must say, quite honestly, that I have been around black people who contribute to the race problem. I've had black people tell me all sorts of inappropriate things, such as-they're not going to fire me because I'm black and I will use that card. All except three of the black attorneys in my office have been pulled from judges and are pool attorneys because they are the lowest producers. They are also the ones who produce the worst work. Yet these attorneys constantly bitch about promotions and more benefits. I have overheard hearing clerks say the same thing. Two hearing clerks actually comb their supervisor's hair. One hearing clerk has mad skills but people have a hard time understanding her written work and when she speaks. I can go on. I'm sure you could. I could tell you a couple office stories as well. Broad statements? I'm not sure what you mean by that? I think everyone should come to the table with some knowledge about the world around them. I can as well. Just because my face is lighter than yours doesn't mean that I've not experienced racism. I suppose my point is that if one drops the extremes on either side then maybe we can have a dialogue. The mantle of oppression shuts down dialogue pretty quickly. That's not to say that some (such as the examples you cited here) don't have a right to wear it. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Mar 26, 2017 22:21:31 GMT
I'm sure you could. I could tell you a couple office stories as well. Broad statements? I'm not sure what you mean by that? I think everyone should come to the table with some knowledge about the world around them. I can as well. Just because my face is lighter than yours doesn't mean that I've not experienced racism. I suppose my point is that if one drops the extremes on either side then maybe we can have a dialogue. The mantle of oppression shuts down dialogue pretty quickly. That's not to say that some (such as the examples you cited here) don't have a right to wear it. Your work stories belong right beside them. I didnt make any assumptions about your life experiences whether or not you've experienced racism sexism or the color of your skin though you did by comparing our hues but that's an entirely new thread. I don't know why you start down that path. Again whatever  |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jun 27, 2017 12:42:48 GMT
Georgetown University is looking at setting up full scholarships for the descendants of those slaves. I think that would be a nice gesture and a start. I hope they continue the whole dialogue about how the Jesuits came to use slave labor in the first place and put a face on those who were previously faceless and nameless and forgotten. Here is a recent news story. I had high hopes for Georgetown so this story really disappointed me. Wouldn't it be awesome if the Georgetown basketball team refused to play until something was done to really honor their ancestors. |
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Post by Merge on Jun 27, 2017 12:55:31 GMT
Would a blanket financial compensation actually change what's wrong in our society or fix the problem? Who would get the compensation? How would it be paid for? Would there be a tax levied on all non-black people to be handed over to black people? Would mixed-race people only get half the compensation? Would black people who have committed violent crimes or sexual assault get the compensation, too? How about Bill Cosby or OJ Simpson?
I fully recognize that we are not a just society but, logistical issues aside, I don't think this is a problem we solve at a macro level. It's a problem that is solved by changing individual hearts and minds, and no government apology or transfer of money is going to do that.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jun 27, 2017 13:19:43 GMT
Would a blanket financial compensation actually change what's wrong in our society or fix the problem? Who would get the compensation? How would it be paid for? Would there be a tax levied on all non-black people to be handed over to black people? Would mixed-race people only get half the compensation? Would black people who have committed violent crimes or sexual assault get the compensation, too? How about Bill Cosby or OJ Simpson? I fully recognize that we are not a just society but, logistical issues aside, I don't think this is a problem we solve at a macro level. It's a problem that is solved by changing individual hearts and minds, and no government apology or transfer of money is going to do that. All very interesting questions. I wonder what the discussions were like when apologies were issued to Native Americans or what the process was like for holocaust survivors and their heirs. I am shocked at the number of you who think even a government issued blanket apology would be too much work. If we don't solve the problem at a macro level where do we start? |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jun 27, 2017 13:38:04 GMT
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tduby1
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Post by tduby1 on Jun 27, 2017 13:48:01 GMT
Life isn't fair. Bad stuff happens to all people. Blanket apologies do nothing. Only forgiveness heals. I don't know the answer. I don't know if a blanket apology would do any good but I can't imagine it would do any harm and the sentiments above really, really do not sit well with me. It seems as if you believe the onus should be on the victims to forgive but they don't warrant any kind of acknowledgement that they were wronged. How do you forgive with no apologies being offered anyway? |
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AnotherPea
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Post by AnotherPea on Jun 27, 2017 14:57:38 GMT
what is the point of apologizing for something you did not do? Does it really make the descendants of victims feel better? How is TODAY's government apologizing going to make a difference?
Many moons ago people in my situation (a woman) were routinely marginalized. They had no voice and simply extensions of the men in their families. There are still some issues in society regarding equal treatment for women. But having someone say "I'm sorry that my kind, men, made it so your ancestors couldn't own land or vote" really won't do anything for me.
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AnotherPea
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Post by AnotherPea on Jun 27, 2017 14:58:34 GMT
Life isn't fair. Bad stuff happens to all people. Blanket apologies do nothing. Only forgiveness heals. I don't know the answer. I don't know if a blanket apology would do any good but I can't imagine it would do any harm and the sentiments above really, really do not sit well with me. It seems as if you believe the onus should be on the victims to forgive but they don't warrant any kind of acknowledgement that they were wronged. How do you forgive with no apologies being offered anyway? that's pretty much the point of forgiveness. True forgiveness doesn't require an apology. It isn't dependent upon anyone else's actions. |
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Post by pondrunner on Jun 27, 2017 15:20:23 GMT
what is the point of apologizing for something you did not do? Does it really make the descendants of victims feel better? How is TODAY's government apologizing going to make a difference? Many moons ago people in my situation (a woman) were routinely marginalized. They had no voice and simply extensions of the men in their families. There are still some issues in society regarding equal treatment for women. But having someone say "I'm sorry that my kind, men, made it so your ancestors couldn't own land or vote" really won't do anything for me. On the other hand, for me, if someone official said that the government and many individuals did things that were morally wrong, and made a commitment to prevent such things in the future and to protect the rights of people around the world, and did that, I would find that at least in some measure compelling. My family of origin comes from a time and place where serious oppression and genocide occurred along ethnic and religious lines, and we have experienced the effect of that in our lives as well. Reparations would do little for us. But what would be valuable for us would be to see that the suffering of our ancestors was not for nothing and that we would see the world learn from atrocities past. |
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Post by glory77 on Jun 27, 2017 15:42:08 GMT
Yes, I believe America should apologize for the injustices done to African Americans, however, I believe an apology was already made (maybe by President Obama).
Reparations? No, I don't agree with this at all. I think it would be too difficult to really determine who was a direct descendant of a slave due to the poor census records, etc. of the time for slaves. Most slaves were listed by their first name and age only.
Edited because I hit send before I was finished.
I also think it's a slippery slope. There were injustices made against many groups. Not only African Americans, but Native Americans, the Japanese during WWII, and even women as someone else mentioned and many others. How do we determine who gets reparations once we start giving them out?
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