Olan
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Post by Olan on Dec 31, 2017 17:34:15 GMT
Also know that sharing your families immigration story is another privilege white people take for granted.
Who else come as enslaved people and have had an American experience even close to African Americans.
Imagine if the mistreatment ended after the Civil War and I wasn't still dying at a rate of x4 of a white woman do you think I'd be pissed about paying taxes?
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61redhead
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Post by 61redhead on Dec 31, 2017 17:40:09 GMT
No one is villainizing anyone unworthy of that distinction. Your familys personal immigration story doesn't negate the fact that African American people are owed much more than what we've been given by this country. My ancestors and your ancestors have a much different "how'd you come to America" story so why the need to make personal comparisons I'll never understand. Do you think an Italian immigrant and an African immigrant should play the oppression Olympics together? You are the same pea who said: "If it's any consolation, many of us white folks are afraid to call the police, too. Look at what happened to the woman from Australia." Wrong! YOU, OLAN, are villainizing an entire country of people, including many of us here, whom you don't even know personally, who have not been proven worthy of that distinction. Clearly nothing this country ever does will ever be enough to staunch your constant whining and wringing of hands over your long-dead ancestors who were enslaved by the evil white man. Never will you ever concede that other peoples have been enslaved, tortured, treated badly. Your peoples' story will always be worse, always be bigger, and never be rectified sufficiently. If you hate it so badly here, why don't you just leave??? Not the message board -- the country. Go back to Africa where you can be happy and successful and treated the way you deserve to be treated. |
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Post by Clair on Dec 31, 2017 17:45:14 GMT
Black people are working hard to improve our communities and the futures of our children. Think of all we've accomplished in spite of the way we've been treated in this country. No one can say black people haven't made amazing strides in spite of everything. What have white people done to earn their position in America? Who built this country? How can you somehow believe it's fair that people who did the back breaking work of building this country to never receive any repayment for that work when we know how generational wealth works? Edit: Have you noticed that black women are made to take responsibility for the progress of their community meanwhile white women keep producing white men without having to answer for what they are doing to make the world better. Peas constantly ask me what I am doing to defeat racism not acknowledging how counterproductive their attitudes are. Think of all the things wrong with the American government at this very moment and tell me where you guys have taken even a morsel of personal responsibility My Italian American ancestors built much of this country. Laborers on roads, bricklayers, stone workers. I know Asian people feel the same way. Believe it or not, this country was built by many different ethnicities. I have not noticed black women being singled out for responsibility for their community's progress, no. But speaking of women, I can tell you that BOTH my grandmothers raised their families without the support of husbands, during the Great Depression.One grandfather died young and the other left a wife and 8 kids for another woman. Their kids all had to quit school by grades 5-7 in order to support their families. That instilled an ethic in both my parents that their children WOULD be educated. No one said sorry to my great grandparents for treating them badly when they arrived here and for not giving them jobs because at that time people didn't like what they called greaseballs. It's easy to villainize people you don't know; much harder to do so when you know about their lives. Peasapie - As another Italian American I understand what you are trying to say but I think you are comparing apples to oranges. Most every group faced discrimination and worked to build this country but our ancestors were able to lose their accents or change their names if they wanted to assimilate. To the world -we are white women. Not so for everyone. |
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Post by Clair on Dec 31, 2017 17:58:12 GMT
No one is villainizing anyone unworthy of that distinction. Your familys personal immigration story doesn't negate the fact that African American people are owed much more than what we've been given by this country. My ancestors and your ancestors have a much different "how'd you come to America" story so why the need to make personal comparisons I'll never understand. Do you think an Italian immigrant and an African immigrant should play the oppression Olympics together? You are the same pea who said: "If it's any consolation, many of us white folks are afraid to call the police, too. Look at what happened to the woman from Australia." Wrong! YOU, OLAN, are villainizing an entire country of people, including many of us here, whom you don't even know personally, who have not been proven worthy of that distinction. Clearly nothing this country ever does will ever be enough to staunch your constant whining and wringing of hands over your long-dead ancestors who were enslaved by the evil white man. Never will you ever concede that other peoples have been enslaved, tortured, treated badly. Your peoples' story will always be worse, always be bigger, and never be rectified sufficiently. If you hate it so badly here, why don't you just leave??? Not the message board -- the country. Go back to Africa where you can be happy and successful and treated the way you deserve to be treated. What an awful thing to say - redhead. This is a very complicated issue and comments like yours show exactly how far we still have to go.... |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Dec 31, 2017 18:06:53 GMT
No one is villainizing anyone unworthy of that distinction. Your familys personal immigration story doesn't negate the fact that African American people are owed much more than what we've been given by this country. My ancestors and your ancestors have a much different "how'd you come to America" story so why the need to make personal comparisons I'll never understand. Do you think an Italian immigrant and an African immigrant should play the oppression Olympics together? You are the same pea who said: "If it's any consolation, many of us white folks are afraid to call the police, too. Look at what happened to the woman from Australia." Wrong! YOU, OLAN, are villainizing an entire country of people, including many of us here, whom you don't even know personally, who have not been proven worthy of that distinction. Clearly nothing this country ever does will ever be enough to staunch your constant whining and wringing of hands over your long-dead ancestors who were enslaved by the evil white man. Never will you ever concede that other peoples have been enslaved, tortured, treated badly. Your peoples' story will always be worse, always be bigger, and never be rectified sufficiently. If you hate it so badly here, why don't you just leave??? Not the message board -- the country. Go back to Africa where you can be happy and successful and treated the way you deserve to be treated. Imagine if every African American person in America randomly selected an African country to return to...and we took everything we created with us. Our long dead ancestors want their patents and inventions back as well. If we could stop paying taxes for o say 5 years I could fund my own families return to Africa. 45 doesn't pay taxes why should I as a black woman living in America? If the peas would like to fund an all black community for their very own Olan to head up I'm sure Keaton Jones' mom could help me set up a GoFundMe. Can I expect a donation from you? |
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Country Ham
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Post by Country Ham on Dec 31, 2017 18:12:46 GMT
How is America doing in this regard? The NY stabbing and the South Carolina church shooting? He opened fire in a church full of black parishoners then the state of S.C. said "But first let's get you something to eat". I found that incredibly troubling and I don't even pay taxes in SC. It's like the jig is up but we have to keep pretending so as not to hurt the "good white people" feelings. We are failing, frankly. There was a shooting in a church outside of Nashville several months ago. It was a black immigrant who shot up a white congregation and he referred to it as a sort of retaliation for the SC church shooting. There was hardly any media coverage despite their being a fatality and others critically injured (it happened in the height of the football players kneeling protests). Do you think had their been a different response in SC this would of been prevented? I am still a bit surprised how little coverage it got to this day. Church shooting |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Dec 31, 2017 18:16:17 GMT
There was a shooting in a church outside of Nashville several months ago. It was a black immigrant who shot up a white congregation and he referred to it as a sort of retaliation for the SC church shooting. There was hardly any media coverage despite their being a fatality and others critically injured (it happened in the height of the football players kneeling protests). Do you think had their been a different response in SC this would of been prevented? I am still a bit surprised how little coverage it got to this day. Church shootingDo you mean if they hadn't treated the killer of 9 SC parishioners to Burger King would the Nashville shooting have better coverage? |
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61redhead
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Post by 61redhead on Dec 31, 2017 18:47:09 GMT
Wrong! YOU, OLAN, are villainizing an entire country of people, including many of us here, whom you don't even know personally, who have not been proven worthy of that distinction. Clearly nothing this country ever does will ever be enough to staunch your constant whining and wringing of hands over your long-dead ancestors who were enslaved by the evil white man. Never will you ever concede that other peoples have been enslaved, tortured, treated badly. Your peoples' story will always be worse, always be bigger, and never be rectified sufficiently. If you hate it so badly here, why don't you just leave??? Not the message board -- the country. Go back to Africa where you can be happy and successful and treated the way you deserve to be treated. What an awful thing to say - redhead. This is a very complicated issue and comments like yours show exactly how far we still have to go.... I totally understand how complicated this issue is. I have lived my entire life in the south. I lived through desegregation of the schools. And I have observed many times here where folks have tried to have meaningful conversation with Olan regarding the subject of race relations in America. But regardless of what is said, "the white women" are wrong, "Olan" is right, and there is no way for there to be any real conversation about it. Just like her obtuse response to Country Ham's post. I think we all know that wasn't the point Country Ham was trying to make. There are plenty, plenty of black people in America who are brilliant and successful in their respective fields. Why? Because they worked hard to get an education and to apply themselves in their chosen fields. Some of them probably even felt that the deck was stacked against them, but they succeeded in spite of that. We also have a large number of black Americans who suffer from generational poverty. I get it. Slavery was a very bad thing. A dark time in our nation's history. But it can't be undone. And IMHO there is no way to make financial reparations to the decendants of those who were enslaved. The bloodline is diluted exponentially with each generation, once a non-African partner is introduced, so how would you determine who gets what percentage of the payment for the original slave? I think the only way to move forward is to work together for the betterment of all, but that can't happen as long as people are motivated only by entitlement. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Dec 31, 2017 19:00:42 GMT
What an awful thing to say - redhead. This is a very complicated issue and comments like yours show exactly how far we still have to go.... I totally understand how complicated this issue is. I have lived my entire life in the south. I lived through desegregation of the schools. And I have observed many times here where folks have tried to have meaningful conversation with Olan regarding the subject of race relations in America. But regardless of what is said, "the white women" are wrong, "Olan" is right, and there is no way for there to be any real conversation about it. Just like her obtuse response to CountryHam's post. I think we all know that wasn't the point CountryHam was trying to make. There are plenty, plenty of black people in America who are brilliant and successful in their respective fields. Why? Because they worked hard to get an education and to apply themselves in their chosen fields. Some of them probably even felt that the deck was stacked against them, but they succeeded in spite of that. We also have a large number of black Americans who suffer from generational poverty. I get it. Slavery was a very bad thing. A dark time in our nation's history. But it can't be undone. And IMHO there is no way to make financial reparations to the decendants of those who were enslaved. The bloodline is diluted exponentially with each generation, once a non-African partner is introduced, so how would you determine who gets what percentage of the payment for the original slave? I think the only way to move forward is to work together for the betterment of all, but that can't happen as long as people are motivated only by entitlement. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. That's all I got. |
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Post by #notLauren on Dec 31, 2017 19:02:25 GMT
Absolutely not. You want money? Get off your ass and earn it. Just like all the white men in this country did right? Just like the 99% of white men who were not born into wealth. You are the most bitter bigot and racist I’ve ever had the misfortune to interact with. Stop your constant whining and bitching about how hard it is for you because you’re a black woman and get out there and make something of your life. All the reparation money in the world won’t do anything about your lack of self respect and your blaming others for your failures Th |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Dec 31, 2017 19:13:06 GMT
Just like all the white men in this country did right? Just like the 99% of white men who were not born into wealth. You are the most bitter bigot and racist I’ve ever had the misfortune to interact with. Stop your constant whining and bitching about how hard it is for you because you’re a black woman and get out there and make something of your life. All the reparation money in the world won’t do anything about your lack of self respect and your blaming others for your failures Th shared her families immigration story...I have not. You don't know anything about my experiences...failure or successes as a black woman because I don't respect you enough to share it. Don't pretend like you know anything more about me outside of what you assume. |
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inkedup
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Post by inkedup on Dec 31, 2017 19:15:14 GMT
Wrong! YOU, OLAN, are villainizing an entire country of people, including many of us here, whom you don't even know personally, who have not been proven worthy of that distinction. Clearly nothing this country ever does will ever be enough to staunch your constant whining and wringing of hands over your long-dead ancestors who were enslaved by the evil white man. Never will you ever concede that other peoples have been enslaved, tortured, treated badly. Your peoples' story will always be worse, always be bigger, and never be rectified sufficiently. If you hate it so badly here, why don't you just leave??? Not the message board -- the country. Go back to Africa where you can be happy and successful and treated the way you deserve to be treated. Imagine if every African American person in America randomly selected an African country to return to...and we took everything we created with us. Our long dead ancestors want their patents and inventions back as well. If we could stop paying taxes for o say 5 years I could fund my own families return to Africa. 45 doesn't pay taxes why should I as a black woman living in America? If the peas would like to fund an all black community for their very own Olan to head up I'm sure Keaton Jones' mom could help me set up a GoFundMe. Can I expect a donation from you? What would reparations fix? How would pay outs be determined? What would happen once all that reparation money has been spent and the issues that plague America's black population do not disappear? You post so often about whites who commit horrific crimes and then try to villanize all non-blacks by saying "who raises these people?" Well, there are plenty of horrific crimes committed by black people. Who raises *those* criminals? Or are all non-blacks sonehow responsible for the poor choices made by black criminals? America was built by people of every race and religion. This idea you have that one race is superior and solely responsible for all the good in this country is eerily similar to that of the white supremacist movement. You ignore the suffering other groups have endured and you elevate yourself and your race above the rest of us. |
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Post by #notLauren on Dec 31, 2017 22:36:29 GMT
Just like the 99% of white men who were not born into wealth. You are the most bitter bigot and racist I’ve ever had the misfortune to interact with. Stop your constant whining and bitching about how hard it is for you because you’re a black woman and get out there and make something of your life. All the reparation money in the world won’t do anything about your lack of self respect and your blaming others for your failures Th shared her families immigration story...I have not. You don't know anything about my experiences...failure or successes as a black woman because I don't respect you enough to share it. Don't pretend like you know anything more about me outside of what you assume. I know all I want to know about you based upon what you post here. You hate white people and you believe they you are owed something because of your skin color. You try to couch it in what you consider noble terms like "reparations", but you want something for nothing. As I said, do what all of us do; work. Hard. Quit yer bitchin and if you hate the people of this country so much, pick yourself up and move to Africa or anywhere else you want. Stop blaming others and making excuses for yourself. |
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JustTricia
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Post by JustTricia on Dec 31, 2017 22:44:17 GMT
Just wondering, do you feel Germany owes reparations to all Holocaust families? Does America owe the people who were in the Japanese camps in the US during WWII as well? Or just anyone that is a dependent of slavery?
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Post by peasapie on Jan 1, 2018 2:19:47 GMT
My Italian American ancestors built much of this country. Laborers on roads, bricklayers, stone workers. I know Asian people feel the same way. Believe it or not, this country was built by many different ethnicities. I have not noticed black women being singled out for responsibility for their community's progress, no. But speaking of women, I can tell you that BOTH my grandmothers raised their families without the support of husbands, during the Great Depression.One grandfather died young and the other left a wife and 8 kids for another woman. Their kids all had to quit school by grades 5-7 in order to support their families. That instilled an ethic in both my parents that their children WOULD be educated. No one said sorry to my great grandparents for treating them badly when they arrived here and for not giving them jobs because at that time people didn't like what they called greaseballs. It's easy to villainize people you don't know; much harder to do so when you know about their lives. Peasapie - As another Italian American I understand what you are trying to say but I think you are comparing apples to oranges. Most every group faced discrimination and worked to build this country but our ancestors were able to lose their accents or change their names if they wanted to assimilate. To the world -we are white women. Not so for everyone. . With respect - why would anyone want to change their heritage. I’m proud of who my family was and what we have achieved. |
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Post by peasapie on Jan 1, 2018 2:22:40 GMT
Just like the 99% of white men who were not born into wealth. You are the most bitter bigot and racist I’ve ever had the misfortune to interact with. Stop your constant whining and bitching about how hard it is for you because you’re a black woman and get out there and make something of your life. All the reparation money in the world won’t do anything about your lack of self respect and your blaming others for your failures Th shared her families immigration story...I have not. You don't know anything about my experiences...failure or successes as a black woman because I don't respect you enough to share it. Don't pretend like you know anything more about me outside of what you assume. . Is this directed to al of us? If so, why would any of us want to have any further conversation with you? Why do you come here to vent if you don’t have any sort of respect for anyone here? |
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Post by mlynn on Jan 1, 2018 2:45:32 GMT
So, if it comes to reparations and a tax, would descendants of civil war soldiers be exempt? After all, they risked/lost their lives to successfully free the slaves.
It seems that most people assume racists are white. In our neighborhood, the racists are Hispanic - particularly the women.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2018 5:32:22 GMT
What would happen if families of indentured servants wanted their due?
And from what my mother said , her grandparents treated these girls horribly. I can't begin to imagine how bad that was to have left such a memory on my mother. This was in the 1930s, my mother was 5.
Her grandparents were so mean that they were not allowed to have convicts come work for them.
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Post by Clair on Jan 1, 2018 8:00:34 GMT
Peasapie - As another Italian American I understand what you are trying to say but I think you are comparing apples to oranges. Most every group faced discrimination and worked to build this country but our ancestors were able to lose their accents or change their names if they wanted to assimilate. To the world -we are white women. Not so for everyone. . With respect - why would anyone want to change their heritage. I’m proud of who my family was and what we have achieved. I'm proud too. Back in the day when companies wouldn't hire Italians, men changed their names to get jobs. Many nationalities did this. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jan 5, 2018 14:54:54 GMT
What an awful thing to say - redhead. This is a very complicated issue and comments like yours show exactly how far we still have to go.... I totally understand how complicated this issue is. I have lived my entire life in the south. I lived through desegregation of the schools. And I have observed many times here where folks have tried to have meaningful conversation with Olan regarding the subject of race relations in America. But regardless of what is said, "the white women" are wrong, "Olan" is right, and there is no way for there to be any real conversation about it. Just like her obtuse response to Country Ham's post. I think we all know that wasn't the point Country Ham was trying to make. There are plenty, plenty of black people in America who are brilliant and successful in their respective fields. Why? Because they worked hard to get an education and to apply themselves in their chosen fields. Some of them probably even felt that the deck was stacked against them, but they succeeded in spite of that. We also have a large number of black Americans who suffer from generational poverty. I get it. Slavery was a very bad thing. A dark time in our nation's history. But it can't be undone. And IMHO there is no way to make financial reparations to the decendants of those who were enslaved. The bloodline is diluted exponentially with each generation, once a non-African partner is introduced, so how would you determine who gets what percentage of the payment for the original slave? I think the only way to move forward is to work together for the betterment of all, but that can't happen as long as people are motivated only by entitlement. How is this an issue of whose right and whose wrong? What am I wrong about and what are you right about? Also link up goes meaningful conversations about race you've referred to. Olan"The bloodline is diluted exponentially with each generation, once a non-African partner is introduced, so how would you determine who gets what percentage of the payment for the original slave? I think the only way to move forward is to work together for the betterment of all, but that can't happen as long as people are motivated only by entitlement." Noticed how they focus on the money and not the apology they all think no one deserves. Did you catch the diluted comment *sighs* |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jan 5, 2018 15:01:37 GMT
What would happen if families of indentured servants wanted their due? And from what my mother said , her grandparents treated these girls horribly. I can't begin to imagine how bad that was to have left such a memory on my mother. This was in the 1930s, my mother was 5. Her grandparents were so mean that they were not allowed to have convicts come work for them. What if they did? You think a white woman would be accused of being entitled (plantation owners felt entitled to the free work of my ancestors) and diluted? Do you think people would be as adverse to a "blanket apology" as the peas are in this thread. It's really important to understand the differences in experience between indentured servitude and enslaved Africans. www.opendemocracy.net/beyondslavery/liam-hogan/%E2%80%98irish-slaves%E2%80%99-convenient-myth |
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anniebygaslight
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Post by anniebygaslight on Jan 5, 2018 15:04:36 GMT
Would you also be seeking reparation from the descendants of the Arab traders and Africans who facilitated the capture of slaves? If not, why not?
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jan 5, 2018 15:21:43 GMT
Would you also be seeking reparation from the Arab traders and Africans who facilitated the capture of slaves? If not, why not? As evident by this thread reparations for the ancestors of enslaved Africans is unlikely but do you think your question attempts to pass the buck? Who benefitted the most from the work of my ancestors? Why should I pay state and federal taxes if my American experience is so much different from other citizens? Most families are only 2-3 generations removed (super diluted right 61redhead) from being enslaved but then when you consider what happened AFTER the Emancipation Proclamation that's where this discussion really should take a more apologetic turn. Will it? I honestly don't think intellectually many grasp America's history enough to be apologetic. |
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anniebygaslight
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Post by anniebygaslight on Jan 5, 2018 15:31:52 GMT
Would you also be seeking reparation from the Arab traders and Africans who facilitated the capture of slaves? If not, why not? As evident by this thread reparations for the ancestors of enslaved Africans is unlikely but do you think your question attempts to pass the buck? Who benefitted the most from the work of my ancestors? Why should I pay state and federal taxes if my American experience is so much different from other citizens? Most families are only 2-3 generations removed (super diluted right 61redhead ) from being enslaved but then when you consider what happened AFTER the Emancipation Proclamation that's where this discussion really should take a more apologetic turn. Will it? I honestly don't think intellectually many grasp America's history enough to be apologetic. My question in no way attempts to pass the buck. If you think it appropriate that white people removed by several generations and a complete social mindset from the atrocity of owning, and trading in slaves should make reparation to the descendants of those slaves, who have not experienced the brutality of being enslaved themselves, why do you not feel that the descendants of the Arab traders and africans who were complicit in these acts of brutality should also owe you something? |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jan 5, 2018 15:38:43 GMT
Just wondering, do you feel Germany owes reparations to all Holocaust families? Does America owe the people who were in the Japanese camps in the US during WWII as well? Or just anyone that is a dependent of slavery? Huh? Dependent of slavery? You mean descendants of enslaved Africans Did you know in 1988 the Civil Liberties Act was signed? Do you know what was promised to the freed Africans? How can many of you have an opinion on this without basic knowledge of Americas past |
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rodeomom
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Post by rodeomom on Jan 5, 2018 15:44:42 GMT
Can American Indians have their land back? That would be great for my family!
Should American Indians pay reparation as they also owned slaves?
Reparation will never happen, just like the Indians will never get their land back. Who would the land go to? Some of the tribes were totally wiped out, they have no descendants.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jan 5, 2018 15:50:24 GMT
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anniebygaslight
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Post by anniebygaslight on Jan 5, 2018 15:58:42 GMT
I see that once again you chose not to answer my question. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jan 5, 2018 16:00:29 GMT
Can American Indians have their land back? That would be great for my family! Should American Indians pay reparation as they also owned slaves? Reparation will never happen, just like the Indians will never get their land back. Who would the land go to? Some of the tribes were totally wiped out, they have no descendants. Why are you asking me as if I have control over who gets what's owed to them. I get it enslaved Africans aren't the only people the American government owes....that still doesn't negate the fact that my ancestors worked for free and I am still having experiences like this one. They won't ever get their land back but would anyone like to guess the "apology" Act and what year it was signed? They got reservations and casinos. We worked extremely hard to build all black communities after the Emancipation and guess what happened? Atlanta Race Riot 1907 Greenwood 1921 Rosewood Massacare 1923 (1993 is when they acklowedge it happened) |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jan 5, 2018 16:03:11 GMT
I see that once again you chose not to answer my question. You didn't answer my questions either. Not a single one of my questions are ever answered because in doing so, some truth or even research to find out the truth would have to occur. You asked me why do I feel like Arabs and Africans don't owe me. I didn't respond because I never said I "felt" that. |
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