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Post by SockMonkey on Jul 16, 2017 13:37:11 GMT
This place. *sigh* So, without wading too deep into the waters of this argument (discussion?), let me please just say WHITE PEOPLE: We do not get to tell people of color how to be angry or how angry they can be. We just don't. So stop it. And back to Beyonce: Before you get mad about her picture, let me just share that white people have cornered the market on crazy baby photos. We just have. Exhibit: Jesus fucking Christ. What a straw man argument. No one is telling Olan how to feel. No one is telling her she doesn't have a right to her feelings. No one said anything about black people having "cornered the market on crazy baby photos." What bothers me is being told that the reason I dislike Beyonce is that she's black and I hate watching women (black or white) succeed. Thanks for your helpful reminder to "white people", too. What a sanctimonious hand slap that wss for someone who didn't want to "wade too deeply into the discussion." Yeah, people are kind of telling olan to get over it, forgive, move on. I see it on this post, and I've seen it before on this board. That's all I'm gonna say. Yeah, it was a hand slap. I don't think it's fair for anyone to assume that someone doesn't like Beyonce because of her race. I don't blame you for being bothered by that. You seem very angry about this. I'm sorry if my post upset you. ETA: I include myself in this hand slap. I have much work to do in helping to call out racism when I see it, without using the "I have a lot of black friends" or "I listen to xxx musician" rationales. I am not perfect. But I see this happening a LOT. We need to stop centering ourselves in the conversation and just listen. Ask questions that aren't defending our own personal selves and proving that we aren't racist. Call out the microaggressions that happen all the time, like referring to Sally Hemings as a "mistress" and not a "slave." Being conscious of our own privilege. It's VERY VERY hard and I still suck at it, but I'm trying. I'm just asking all of us to try. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jul 16, 2017 13:46:04 GMT
A lot of the peas responding I have made a point to avoid interacting with so quoting them is out of the question but may I again proclaim. I did not say that a simple dislike of Beyoncé makes you racist. What I said was examining the reasons why you don't like her may be an exercise in introspection and show you where your racist is hiding *shrugs*
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Post by SockMonkey on Jul 16, 2017 13:54:16 GMT
A lot of the peas responding I have made a point to avoid interacting with so quoting them is out of the question but may I again proclaim. I did not say that a simple dislike of Beyoncé makes you racist. What I said was examining the reasons why you don't like her may be an exercise in introspection and show you where your racist is hiding *shrugs* And that examination is difficult and uncomfortable and people don't like to do it or really don't know how, and I think that's why there is the backlash, ya know? I think you made a good point about the election, too. White women voted against Hillary Clinton. Something like 98% of black women voted for Hillary, but only 43% of white women. 53% voted for Trump. There should be some introspection on the part of white women there. Olan, I've been reading "Too Fat, Too Slutty, Too Loud" and I think you'd appreciate some of the pop culture and societal analysis in the book. |
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Post by leftturnonly on Jul 16, 2017 13:58:14 GMT
America doesn't want to say sorry. The peas told me so in another thread of mine. So no worries about apologizing for white men. You just keep reaping the rewards sister *thumbs up*. You could also save your apologies until after 45's impeachment. That's a modern day instance of white women falling in line with systemic (I love this autocorrect) racism. And you are wrong. Do you know what made Chattle slavery different from all the rest? Anyone? Does anyone know if any other group of people used the word of God as a way to enslave another group of people? Has that been studied? Read a bit of history...it won't hurt. I know the answer to the two last questions, it is apparent that you don't. Here's another bit of history I'm sure has gone unstudied. The Quakers who got land from William Penn and were among the very first settlers of Pennsylvania soon became the first to denounce slavery and work to eliminate it in the US as early as the late 1600's-early 1700's. It was an innovative idea; slavery is against God. The beginning of the movement that eventually led to the abolishment of slavery in America began because of a religious movement. By people with fair skin. I'm not gonna apologize for that, either. |
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Post by anxiousmom on Jul 16, 2017 14:02:30 GMT
A lot of the peas responding I have made a point to avoid interacting with so quoting them is out of the question but may I again proclaim. I did not say that a simple dislike of Beyoncé makes you racist. What I said was examining the reasons why you don't like her may be an exercise in introspection and show you where your racist is hiding *shrugs* I guess then, my question is do you genuinely believe that all of us 'others' are hiding racist beliefs? Without knowing us? or knowing what is in our hearts? Do you really think that people aren't just being honest with themselves and that if they were, they would come to realize that they were actually, in fact, closet racists?? If I don't like Beyonce's music, or anyone else of a different race or ethnicity, I have to delve deep into the reason why to examine that my dislike is based on race or not-not the fact that an asshole was just being an asshole and mean to me? |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jul 16, 2017 14:09:17 GMT
A lot of the peas responding I have made a point to avoid interacting with so quoting them is out of the question but may I again proclaim. I did not say that a simple dislike of Beyoncé makes you racist. What I said was examining the reasons why you don't like her may be an exercise in introspection and show you where your racist is hiding *shrugs* I guess then, my question is do you genuinely believe that all of us 'others' are hiding racist beliefs? Without knowing us? or knowing what is in our hearts? Do you really think that people aren't just being honest with themselves and that if they were, they would come to realize that they were actually, in fact, closet racists?? If I don't like Beyonce's music, or anyone else of a different race or ethnicity, I have to delve deep into the reason why to examine that my dislike is based on race or not-not the fact that an asshole was just being an asshole and mean to me? I said I leave room for people who don't have any racist beliefs and asked that we all acklowedge how few there are. If racist beliefs were not so pervasive why is the black experience what it is. Again I've asked this countless times. The men who are responsible for lynching 4,000 black bodies...where did they go? Who did they raise? War crimes are prosecuted but black people got no justice. We didn't even get the 40 acres and mule. We got Jim Crow instead. Does anyone remember the thread where the watermelon and fried chicken mystery was uncovered. Does that not prove just how little Joy white people intended for black folks? |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jul 16, 2017 14:49:29 GMT
A lot of the peas responding I have made a point to avoid interacting with so quoting them is out of the question but may I again proclaim. I did not say that a simple dislike of Beyoncé makes you racist. What I said was examining the reasons why you don't like her may be an exercise in introspection and show you where your racist is hiding *shrugs* And that examination is difficult and uncomfortable and people don't like to do it or really don't know how, and I think that's why there is the backlash, ya know? I think you made a good point about the election, too. White women voted against Hillary Clinton. Something like 98% of black women voted for Hillary, but only 43% of white women. 53% voted for Trump. There should be some introspection on the part of white women there. Olan, I've been reading "Too Fat, Too Slutty, Too Loud" and I think you'd appreciate some of the pop culture and societal analysis in the book. Crazy! Tuesday morning a woman at my gym gifted me her copy. We had a pretty hilarious conversation about teenagers and censoring what they read. She commented that she would have finished the book much sooner but could only read it at the gym away from her daughters. She talked about us having a secret locker where we shared titles we were ashamed to read on public transit or around young eyes. If I am being honest I immediately wanted to scale back the interaction. I was/am having a hard time accepting goodwill from white people. I think this is what being introspective about your own ideas about race looks like. Kinda comes as perfect timing for me because I am about 36 hours into ignoring a genuine request to reconnect from an old friend. It's almost like I want them to remain pre-election friends. |
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ginacivey
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Post by ginacivey on Jul 16, 2017 15:11:13 GMT
I would ask what you've done to make your ancestors proud i don't live to make my ancestors proud...i live to make the world a better place for generations to come What a sanctimonious hand slap that wss for someone who didn't want to "wade too deeply into the discussion." we get it - you are 'woke' (ETA - this is referencing SockMonkey not inked up - i realized it might be confusing) |
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Post by Olan on Jul 16, 2017 15:13:50 GMT
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Post by SockMonkey on Jul 16, 2017 15:20:01 GMT
I would ask what you've done to make your ancestors proud i don't live to make my ancestors proud...i live to make the world a better place for generations to come What a sanctimonious hand slap that wss for someone who didn't want to "wade too deeply into the discussion." we get it - you are 'woke' Are you talking to me? No, no I am not "woke." If you call yourself woke, you're probably not. But, I'm trying. Just trying to listen, accept criticism and be introspective. What's the bad in that? Does t make you uncomfortable? |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jul 16, 2017 15:27:08 GMT
i don't live to make my ancestors proud...i live to make the world a better place for generations to come we get it - you are 'woke' Are you talking to me? No, no I am not "woke." If you call yourself woke, you're probably not. But, I'm trying. Just trying to listen, accept criticism and be introspective. What's the bad in that? Does t make you uncomfortable? This is where your peers shame you for lapping them in the personal growth department. |
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Post by gryroagain on Jul 16, 2017 15:35:03 GMT
OHMY GAWD.
I just pulled up Facebook and my girls old babysitter from years ago posted her gender reveal...which is her husband shooting at a target that lets out pink smoke so girl I guess.
THAT IS A REAL THING.
At least in Mississippi it is, we lived there 3 years (and it was a strange, weird, way too long 3 years😂) and the babysitter still does.
Guns and babies.
It's real.
Beyoncé, you got nothin on that total weirdness.
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Post by gar on Jul 16, 2017 15:39:22 GMT
Completely ignoring other people's posts/information/questions as usual. No I am choosing where best to spend my time. This would be a fruitless waste of time. I tried to explain why line of thought and everyone overshoot and went back to the same angry bitter bandwagon thing. You guys don't need me responding to continue this thread. Click those links and asks me something specifically about them and I would be more than welcome to converse. Be sure to tell me which link it was. No, I will choose how best to spend my time thank you all the same. And going round in circles with you surely isn't it. Have a good day 🙂 |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jul 16, 2017 15:40:29 GMT
No I am choosing where best to spend my time. This would be a fruitless waste of time. I tried to explain why line of thought and everyone overshoot and went back to the same angry bitter bandwagon thing. You guys don't need me responding to continue this thread. Click those links and asks me something specifically about them and I would be more than welcome to converse. Be sure to tell me which link it was. No, I will choose how best to spend my time thank you all the same. And going round in circles with you surely isn't it. Have a good day 🙂 Thanks for coming back to the circle and letting everyone know gar! Have a great Sunday |
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flute4peace
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Post by flute4peace on Jul 16, 2017 15:51:10 GMT
I love how you know what every non-black person thinks. Since we are just one racist monolith, right? So are non-blacks required to love everything black people do so that we won't be accused of being racist? That's what it feels like with you. I hate Madonna but I have to admit that I like Cher's campiness. For the record, I hate most pop music. I find it inane and awful. But no one is talking about Madonna or Cher because they aren't doing photo shoots with their newborns and selling them to news outlets and tabloids. I'm not going to let you bait me into an argument of why I am racist and how awful every woman here is. I enjoy some of your posts, but you've decided that we are all terrible people and nothing will change your mind. So I am not going to waste my energy or time. If you say you love something black people do, the accusation of cultural appropriation will come next. One just can't expect to have a rational conversation with a bigot. ETA: does slaughtering non-believers count? Because monotheistic religions have a lot to answer for on that account. Or isn't that bad when it's happening to white people? Agreed. As well as the other way around. My heritage includes hundreds of people who died (some in horrendous ways) for what they believed in. |
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ginacivey
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Post by ginacivey on Jul 16, 2017 15:55:04 GMT
OHMY GAWD. I just pulled up Facebook and my girls old babysitter from years ago posted her gender reveal...which is her husband shooting at a target that lets out pink smoke so girl I guess. THAT IS A REAL THING. At least in Mississippi it is, we lived there 3 years (and it was a strange, weird, way too long 3 years😂) and the babysitter still does. Guns and babies. It's real. Beyoncé, you got nothin on that total weirdness. and just like that - back at the redneck shaming! they aren't shooting at a baby for cripes sake if they shoot in their real life what is so strange about shooting at a target OH MY GAWD - those weird 'southerners' are at it again gina |
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Post by gillyp on Jul 16, 2017 15:59:38 GMT
You have not answered my question, you have merely waffled. Please explain what personal actions you feel I need to take responsibility for and what inaction I am guilty of. I am now going to watch the Wimbledon Mens Final. I was rooting for Venus Williams yesterday because I admire her athleticism and the fact she is still able to play at such a level given her time in the game. I like her sportsmanship and wanted her to win because it was probably her last ever shot at the title. I suppose I was wrong to do that? You feel that I waffled instead of answering your question so you've refused to answer mine. Your pokey commentary of "I suppose I am wrong to do that" lets me know where this has been heading. Have a good day. gillyp said: Please explain what personal actions you feel I need to take responsibility for and what inaction I am guilty of. That isn't for me to decide. That's what I challenged you to do. I can see you've decided reflecting quietly is too much work. I did not ignore your question. I asked you to explain it, which, again, you have failed to do. However, I am perfectly happy with regard to the actions I have taken in relation to any persecuted peoples and likewise, to the best of my knowledge and belief, there are no instances where I have taken no action when it was necessary and in my power to act. I am unlikely to respond to you again in this thread as it is fruitless trying to have a reasonable conversation with someone who is unwilling or unable to progress a discussion. Please do not take my silence as in anyway acquiescence or otherwise. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jul 16, 2017 16:03:28 GMT
If you say you love something black people do, the accusation of cultural appropriation will come next. One just can't expect to have a rational conversation with a bigot. ETA: does slaughtering non-believers count? Because monotheistic religions have a lot to answer for on that account. Or isn't that bad when it's happening to white people? Agreed. As well as the other way around. My heritage includes hundreds of people who died (some in horrendous ways) for what they believed in. Point out where I discounted your experiences? Look at what you've done to mine. Also no one can bait you into doing anything it all goes back to that personal responsiblity thing. Here let me model it for you: As a black woman I am responsible for the circumstances I find myself in. I am quick on my feet, have a sound mind, marketable skills, etc. I live in a racist society because I haven't created my own. |
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Post by gryroagain on Jul 16, 2017 16:07:13 GMT
OHMY GAWD. I just pulled up Facebook and my girls old babysitter from years ago posted her gender reveal...which is her husband shooting at a target that lets out pink smoke so girl I guess. THAT IS A REAL THING. At least in Mississippi it is, we lived there 3 years (and it was a strange, weird, way too long 3 years😂) and the babysitter still does. Guns and babies. It's real. Beyoncé, you got nothin on that total weirdness. and just like that - back at the redneck shaming! they aren't shooting at a baby for cripes sake if they shoot in their real life what is so strange about shooting at a target OH MY GAWD - those weird 'southerners' are at it again gina Babies (in or out of utero) and guns is plain weird. Its weird. The whole thing (and that it's a thing) is weird. |
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flute4peace
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Post by flute4peace on Jul 16, 2017 16:48:55 GMT
Agreed. As well as the other way around. My heritage includes hundreds of people who died (some in horrendous ways) for what they believed in. Point out where I discounted your experiences? Look at what you've done to mine. Also no one can bait you into doing anything it all goes back to that personal responsiblity thing. Here let me model it for you: As a black woman I am responsible for the circumstances I find myself in. I am quick on my feet, have a sound mind, marketable skills, etc. I live in a racist society because I haven't created my own. Exactly. You've filled yourself with hatred towards anyone who is not just like you. That is YOUR doing and YOURS alone. No amount of apologizing or groveling or WTHever you want "us" to do is going to change that.
You asked earlier what I've done to make my ancestors proud of me. Since you're clearly not interested in anything other than how it directly relates to you, I will simply answer with this:
My ancestors did not own slaves. I don't, either.
I can't believe I allowed myself to get sucked up into all this. I should know better. To my fellow peas, I apologize for my participation in this ridiculousness. 
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jul 16, 2017 16:50:10 GMT
Point out where I discounted your experiences? Look at what you've done to mine. Also no one can bait you into doing anything it all goes back to that personal responsiblity thing. Here let me model it for you: As a black woman I am responsible for the circumstances I find myself in. I am quick on my feet, have a sound mind, marketable skills, etc. I live in a racist society because I haven't created my own. Exactly. You've filled yourself with hatred towards anyone who is not just like you. That is YOUR doing and YOURS alone. No amount of apologizing or groveling or WTHever you want "us" to do is going to change that.
You asked earlier what I've done to make my ancestors proud of me. Since you're clearly not interested in anything other than how it directly relates to you, I will simply answer with this:
My ancestors did not own slaves. I don't, either.
I can't believe I allowed myself to get sucked up into all this. I should know better. To my fellow peas, I apologize for my participation in this ridiculousness.
Add yourself to the growing list. Baited by evil racist Olan. Personal responsibility. |
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imsirius
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Post by imsirius on Jul 16, 2017 16:50:38 GMT
Olan' post on another thread...
Speaks volumes.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jul 16, 2017 16:52:23 GMT
Olan' post on another thread... Speaks volumes. Yes. That I'm honest and introspective. Personal responsibility. |
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luckyexwife
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Post by luckyexwife on Jul 16, 2017 16:53:20 GMT
OHMY GAWD. I just pulled up Facebook and my girls old babysitter from years ago posted her gender reveal...which is her husband shooting at a target that lets out pink smoke so girl I guess. THAT IS A REAL THING. At least in Mississippi it is, we lived there 3 years (and it was a strange, weird, way too long 3 years😂) and the babysitter still does. Guns and babies. It's real. Beyoncé, you got nothin on that total weirdness. and just like that - back at the redneck shaming! they aren't shooting at a baby for cripes sake if they shoot in their real life what is so strange about shooting at a target OH MY GAWD - those weird 'southerners' are at it again gina It's not just a southern thing! My cousin here in Minnesota is doing the same thing. They are avid outdoors lovers, including hunting, so it fits with their lifestyle. They live in the country, closest neighbors are 4 or 5 miles away, so no neighbors to disrupt with their target shooting. |
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imsirius
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Jul 12, 2014 19:59:28 GMT
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Post by imsirius on Jul 16, 2017 16:56:15 GMT
Olan' post on another thread... Speaks volumes. Yes. That I'm honest and introspective. Personal responsibility. No..what it means is you will go to any length to prove white people are all closet racists. Meanwhile you can't see that you are exactly that yourself. don't bother responding, I got caught up in your crap again..not any more. |
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Post by anxiousmom on Jul 16, 2017 16:57:33 GMT
and just like that - back at the redneck shaming! they aren't shooting at a baby for cripes sake if they shoot in their real life what is so strange about shooting at a target OH MY GAWD - those weird 'southerners' are at it again gina I think I have said this before, but the way I see it is that one of the last bastions of acceptable stereotyping is against the 'rednecks' and 'hillbillies' and southerners in general. |
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Post by lisacharlotte on Jul 16, 2017 17:00:39 GMT
Olan' post on another thread... Speaks volumes. Yes. That I'm honest and introspective. Personal responsibility. I think that qualifies as a humblebrag. 👍🏻 |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jul 16, 2017 17:14:11 GMT
Listen I'm sorry many of you feel the way that you feel. Continue bashing me in an attempt to silence very real issues. We've already established that you don't care what I think so I'm puzzled why the inflammatory language and bang wagon jumping. I'm a racist bitch that everyone hates. But how does that change who you are?
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ginacivey
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Post by ginacivey on Jul 16, 2017 17:18:08 GMT
I'm a racist bitch that everyone hates. But how does that change who you are? you think the same of us so what is your answer gina |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jul 16, 2017 17:22:33 GMT
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