|
|
Post by Merge on Feb 22, 2015 2:08:37 GMT
As a former Catholic, I agree with what gsquaredmom said. Respecting someone else's religion means not co-opting it for convenience.
As a woman who went through a Catholic ceremony due to family pressure (my parents literally would not have attended any other kind of wedding), I wish now that I had stood my ground and had a ceremony that was meaningful to me. It's your wedding day and, hopefully, the only one you'll ever have. Don't let someone else impose their religious beliefs on it. My wedding portraits feature a big crucifix over the altar behind us - so not what I would choose if I were doing the choosing.
DH and I are planning to renew our vows for our 20th anniversary, and will plan a ceremony that is meaningful to us.
|
|
|
|
Post by BuckeyeSandy on Feb 22, 2015 4:33:14 GMT
As a practicing Catholic, I can understand your families wanting something different. But if you do not hold to, even on a cultural/custom level, let alone a belief in, why go through it within the Church? I would not do a ritual that had no real meaning for you. Do what will have meaning for you both.
I would meet with the priest, but as a friend of the family, not as a possible presider. For someone to preside and sign the papers to make it all legal, find a civil official that can "do" weddings.
My first marriage was presided by a friend's father (he was the Mayor of my hometown), at an event hall. Not in the Church, although my first husband and I did do the prep classes. There is a long story to it, but it worked for us, and for our families.
|
|
TheOtherMeg
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,541
Jun 25, 2014 20:58:14 GMT
|
Post by TheOtherMeg on Feb 22, 2015 5:03:05 GMT
One of my college roommates would (quite derogatorily) call those who picked and chose which rules of the Church they'd follow and which ones they'd ignore a "Cafeteria Catholic." I've heard the term since, and always with an eyeroll, if not outright derision. It's similar to the way I've heard some Europeans use the term "American Catholic."
I follow no religion, so I have no strong feelings one way or the other, but I understand why intentionally disregarding parts/rules of the ceremony would upset some people.
I'm not well versed in Catholicism. Is there no way to have the marriage recognized/blessed/not sure of the term by the Church without agreeing to, at minimum, raise one's future children in the Church? So if one spouse-to-be is Catholic and the other isn't but agrees to a Catholic ceremony *but* doesn't want the kids raised Catholic, the deal is off?
|
|
pudgygroundhog
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,643 
Location: The Grand Canyon
|
Post by pudgygroundhog on Feb 22, 2015 5:25:52 GMT
When I read your post, the first impression I got was your ambivalence towards the Catholic church. You have no desire to be married in the Church and you will only agree to do it on your terms. It doesn't work that way, a priest will only marry you in the Church with a full mass. What happens if you have children? The same family who is pressuring you to marry in the Church is going to rally to have you baptize your children. If you are an atheist, I personally don't think you should marry in the Church. If you shared what you posted here with a priest, even a close family friend, I doubt he would perform the ceremony. You have strong feeling against religion, you need to work this out with FH now. If this is what he wants, to practice his faith and baptize his children better to resolve these issues before you marry. You're absolutely right. I'm just not interested in marrying in the Catholic church because it has no meaning to me. It has little meaning to him. If it has no meaning to you and little meaning to him, then why do it? It sounds like you want to get a priest to marry you, then ask him to ago against what his normal duties would be, which to me is unfair and frankly, disingenuous. By the way you present your beliefs on this board, I'm pretty surprised you would buckle to anybody. |
|
|
|
Post by scrappinmom3 on Feb 22, 2015 5:29:25 GMT
Ooh, bad memories are flooding back. I (not Catholic, nor religious), married a Catholic ( non practicing) 32 years ago. I agreed to get married by a priest (dh's dad's cousin twice removed) in theCatholic church. I agreed that I would do the marriage classes and, if necessary, even get baptized in another religion (the priest overlooked the nom- baptized part), but that I did NOT want a mass and that I would NOT agree to raise my children Catholic. In a face to face meeting with the priest, he agreed to my stipulations. Well, during the rehearsal, my maid of honor Catholic friend told me that since they were discussing when the communion part was going to take place, that we were indeed having a mass. I was pissed and spoke to the priest who then told me that it was not possible to not have a mass. It was my mother in law who insisted (although she herself was a non practicing catholic). I almost did not go through with the ceremony, but my mom and dad (my dad initially wasn't going to go to the wedding if it was in a Catholic Church) told me just to go on and enjoy my day and forget about that little detail. So, I made it through the mass, did not agree to raise my children Catholic although the priest asked me three times to "just say yes" ( which would have been hypocritical in my little moral, but not religious mind). I am still married, do not have Catholic children and still cannot stand my mother in law. I do think that the priest does have some latitude with the rules he is going to follow and I have been to plenty of ceremonies before and since without masses and this summer, my niece was married at a park by a Catholic priest. Stick to your guns and enjoy YOUR day!
|
|
grinningcat
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,663
Jun 26, 2014 13:06:35 GMT
|
Post by grinningcat on Feb 22, 2015 12:23:20 GMT
You're absolutely right. I'm just not interested in marrying in the Catholic church because it has no meaning to me. It has little meaning to him. If it has no meaning to you and little meaning to him, then why do it? It sounds like you want to get a priest to marry you, then ask him to ago against what his normal duties would be, which to me is unfair and frankly, disingenuous. By the way you present your beliefs on this board, I'm pretty surprised you would buckle to anybody. Sigh. I'll be blunt, it pisses me off that you're saying I'm buckling. I don't think I am when I am giving my FH a say in HIS wedding ceremony. He has said he wants this, so do I just tell him to fuck off and it's my way or the highway? Somehow that seems a lot more disingenuous than trying to figure out what we're doing by looking at all the options. Do I want a church wedding? No. We've already fought that battle. It's not happening. He wants to meet with this priest, an alleged family friend to find out what the deal is. Does that mean we're going with him? No. Why? Because I have some big issues with having a church ceremony. I don't mind a bible reading, I don't mind a prayer, I do not under any circumstance want a religious ceremony or a Catholic ceremony. Thus why I asked if he has to follow the prescribed ceremony. I'd like him to be there if it makes my FH happy, but I don't want him to do a Church ceremony. Thus why I asked people's experiences. Because I have a feeling that I know where things are going, and it's not towards a priest led ceremony. Thank you for letting me know that trying to have my FH involved and have him reflected in our wedding day is buckling. I had no idea that doing something that the groom wanted for a wedding that is just as much his as it is mine is disingenuous. I learned something new (and yes, this post pissed me off though I expected nothing less from this board) and got a better idea of what to expect even though every parish and priest is different. |
|
grinningcat
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,663
Jun 26, 2014 13:06:35 GMT
|
Post by grinningcat on Feb 22, 2015 12:31:31 GMT
Ooh, bad memories are flooding back. I (not Catholic, nor religious), married a Catholic ( non practicing) 32 years ago. I agreed to get married by a priest (dh's dad's cousin twice removed) in theCatholic church. I agreed that I would do the marriage classes and, if necessary, even get baptized in another religion (the priest overlooked the nom- baptized part), but that I did NOT want a mass and that I would NOT agree to raise my children Catholic. In a face to face meeting with the priest, he agreed to my stipulations. Well, during the rehearsal, my maid of honor Catholic friend told me that since they were discussing when the communion part was going to take place, that we were indeed having a mass. I was pissed and spoke to the priest who then told me that it was not possible to not have a mass. It was my mother in law who insisted (although she herself was a non practicing catholic). I almost did not go through with the ceremony, but my mom and dad (my dad initially wasn't going to go to the wedding if it was in a Catholic Church) told me just to go on and enjoy my day and forget about that little detail. So, I made it through the mass, did not agree to raise my children Catholic although the priest asked me three times to "just say yes" ( which would have been hypocritical in my little moral, but not religious mind). I am still married, do not have Catholic children and still cannot stand my mother in law. I do think that the priest does have some latitude with the rules he is going to follow and I have been to plenty of ceremonies before and since without masses and this summer, my niece was married at a park by a Catholic priest. Stick to your guns and enjoy YOUR day! Ack! That's horrible. I could see them trying to make that happen, but it won't happen. My eyes were opened to their guilt trips earlier in the process and I'm at the point where I want to purposely do things that are against the "traditions" because that's what they are demanding. Thankfully most of these things are things I want to do anyway, but I feel more determined to do them because I am tired of their guilt-fueled attempts at influence and demands. In other words, they can try but I'm not falling for their demands anymore. I am going to this meeting because he wants me to and because I want to know what can and cannot be done. We have to move on this part of the day, and I can't make the decision without all the cards on the table. So we shall see. |
|
grinningcat
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,663
Jun 26, 2014 13:06:35 GMT
|
Post by grinningcat on Feb 22, 2015 12:36:26 GMT
As a practicing Catholic, I can understand your families wanting something different. But if you do not hold to, even on a cultural/custom level, let alone a belief in, why go through it within the Church? I would not do a ritual that had no real meaning for you. Do what will have meaning for you both. I would meet with the priest, but as a friend of the family, not as a possible presider. For someone to preside and sign the papers to make it all legal, find a civil official that can "do" weddings. My first marriage was presided by a friend's father (he was the Mayor of my hometown), at an event hall. Not in the Church, although my first husband and I did do the prep classes. There is a long story to it, but it worked for us, and for our families. Honestly, I would hope that a priest would preside over a ceremony in the same way that an officiant would, with the method, desires and customizations that the couple wants. To me, and apparently that's not how it works, I am looking at the priest as a man who does the ceremony rather than representing the church. If this man means something to my FH, then I would like him there. Not as a church representative, but as a personal friend. I want something super short anyway, so skipping all the "filler" (I know the gospel and homily aren't filler, but for my purposes and for what we're looking at, anything outside of a reading from each side of the family and the vows, it's filler) is what we're looking for. This probably won't happen with this priest, so we'll probably end up going with my plan of hiring my friend who is an officiant. And if he really wants this guy there, we'll make time for him to do a short prayer. |
|
grinningcat
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,663
Jun 26, 2014 13:06:35 GMT
|
Post by grinningcat on Feb 22, 2015 12:37:40 GMT
As a former Catholic, I agree with what gsquaredmom said. Respecting someone else's religion means not co-opting it for convenience. As a woman who went through a Catholic ceremony due to family pressure (my parents literally would not have attended any other kind of wedding), I wish now that I had stood my ground and had a ceremony that was meaningful to me. It's your wedding day and, hopefully, the only one you'll ever have. Don't let someone else impose their religious beliefs on it. My wedding portraits feature a big crucifix over the altar behind us - so not what I would choose if I were doing the choosing. DH and I are planning to renew our vows for our 20th anniversary, and will plan a ceremony that is meaningful to us. I don't see how I am trying to co-opt anything for my convenience. He wants this priest as a family friend. I'm willing to explore it, though I am sure (and really hope) that the rules I know of the church will stand fast and the priest won't be able to do it. |
|
|
|
Post by smalltowngirlie on Feb 22, 2015 12:47:56 GMT
If it has no meaning to you and little meaning to him, then why do it? It sounds like you want to get a priest to marry you, then ask him to ago against what his normal duties would be, which to me is unfair and frankly, disingenuous. By the way you present your beliefs on this board, I'm pretty surprised you would buckle to anybody. Sigh. I'll be blunt, it pisses me off that you're saying I'm buckling. I don't think I am when I am giving my FH a say in HIS wedding ceremony. He has said he wants this, so do I just tell him to fuck off and it's my way or the highway? Somehow that seems a lot more disingenuous than trying to figure out what we're doing by looking at all the options. Do I want a church wedding? No. We've already fought that battle. It's not happening. He wants to meet with this priest, an alleged family friend to find out what the deal is. Does that mean we're going with him? No. Why? Because I have some big issues with having a church ceremony. I don't mind a bible reading, I don't mind a prayer, I do not under any circumstance want a religious ceremony or a Catholic ceremony. Thus why I asked if he has to follow the prescribed ceremony. I'd like him to be there if it makes my FH happy, but I don't want him to do a Church ceremony. Thus why I asked people's experiences. Because I have a feeling that I know where things are going, and it's not towards a priest led ceremony. Thank you for letting me know that trying to have my FH involved and have him reflected in our wedding day is buckling. I had no idea that doing something that the groom wanted for a wedding that is just as much his as it is mine is disingenuous. I learned something new (and yes, this post pissed me off though I expected nothing less from this board) and got a better idea of what to expect even though every parish and priest is different. I have to say that I read it as your FH didn't really care one way or the other, but just trying to make his mom happy. Yes, your FH should be part of the wedding planning, but you said it has little meaning to him, so I thought you were doing it more for future MIL. Meet with his friend and you may be surprised. Hopefully it all works out so you have the day you and your FH want without too much drama. |
|
grinningcat
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,663
Jun 26, 2014 13:06:35 GMT
|
Post by grinningcat on Feb 22, 2015 12:54:41 GMT
Sigh. I'll be blunt, it pisses me off that you're saying I'm buckling. I don't think I am when I am giving my FH a say in HIS wedding ceremony. He has said he wants this, so do I just tell him to fuck off and it's my way or the highway? Somehow that seems a lot more disingenuous than trying to figure out what we're doing by looking at all the options. Do I want a church wedding? No. We've already fought that battle. It's not happening. He wants to meet with this priest, an alleged family friend to find out what the deal is. Does that mean we're going with him? No. Why? Because I have some big issues with having a church ceremony. I don't mind a bible reading, I don't mind a prayer, I do not under any circumstance want a religious ceremony or a Catholic ceremony. Thus why I asked if he has to follow the prescribed ceremony. I'd like him to be there if it makes my FH happy, but I don't want him to do a Church ceremony. Thus why I asked people's experiences. Because I have a feeling that I know where things are going, and it's not towards a priest led ceremony. Thank you for letting me know that trying to have my FH involved and have him reflected in our wedding day is buckling. I had no idea that doing something that the groom wanted for a wedding that is just as much his as it is mine is disingenuous. I learned something new (and yes, this post pissed me off though I expected nothing less from this board) and got a better idea of what to expect even though every parish and priest is different. I have to say that I read it as your FH didn't really care one way or the other, but just trying to make his mom happy. Yes, your FH should be part of the wedding planning, but you said it has little meaning to him, so I thought you were doing it more for future MIL. Meet with his friend and you may be surprised. Hopefully it all works out so you have the day you and your FH want without too much drama. Honestly? There's no way I want to do it for her. No way. He's dealt with enough of their snark that I'm not really interested in doing things for them. For FH, sure. Them, no way. I need to get rid of that bitterness though. It's hard but I'm working on it. |
|
|
|
Post by smalltowngirlie on Feb 22, 2015 13:12:41 GMT
I have to say that I read it as your FH didn't really care one way or the other, but just trying to make his mom happy. Yes, your FH should be part of the wedding planning, but you said it has little meaning to him, so I thought you were doing it more for future MIL. Meet with his friend and you may be surprised. Hopefully it all works out so you have the day you and your FH want without too much drama. Honestly? There's no way I want to do it for her. No way. He's dealt with enough of their snark that I'm not really interested in doing things for them. For FH, sure. Them, no way. I need to get rid of that bitterness though. It's hard but I'm working on it. That I can totally understand. Best of luck with everything. Make it YOUR day. |
|
pudgygroundhog
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,643
Location: The Grand Canyon
|
Post by pudgygroundhog on Feb 22, 2015 13:27:17 GMT
If it has no meaning to you and little meaning to him, then why do it? It sounds like you want to get a priest to marry you, then ask him to ago against what his normal duties would be, which to me is unfair and frankly, disingenuous. By the way you present your beliefs on this board, I'm pretty surprised you would buckle to anybody. Sigh. I'll be blunt, it pisses me off that you're saying I'm buckling. I don't think I am when I am giving my FH a say in HIS wedding ceremony. He has said he wants this, so do I just tell him to fuck off and it's my way or the highway? Somehow that seems a lot more disingenuous than trying to figure out what we're doing by looking at all the options. Do I want a church wedding? No. We've already fought that battle. It's not happening. He wants to meet with this priest, an alleged family friend to find out what the deal is. Does that mean we're going with him? No. Why? Because I have some big issues with having a church ceremony. I don't mind a bible reading, I don't mind a prayer, I do not under any circumstance want a religious ceremony or a Catholic ceremony. Thus why I asked if he has to follow the prescribed ceremony. I'd like him to be there if it makes my FH happy, but I don't want him to do a Church ceremony. Thus why I asked people's experiences. Because I have a feeling that I know where things are going, and it's not towards a priest led ceremony. Thank you for letting me know that trying to have my FH involved and have him reflected in our wedding day is buckling. I had no idea that doing something that the groom wanted for a wedding that is just as much his as it is mine is disingenuous. I learned something new (and yes, this post pissed me off though I expected nothing less from this board) and got a better idea of what to expect even though every parish and priest is different. My intention wasn't to piss you off. I'm just surprised given how strong your beliefs are (at least that is how you present on this board) that you would get married by a priest. I would think differently if this was something that was very important to your fiance, but you have indicated he is only considering it because it's important to his parents. I would find a different way to incorporate the priest if it is so important to his parents - maybe saying grace at dinner or something similar. |
|
grinningcat
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,663
Jun 26, 2014 13:06:35 GMT
|
Post by grinningcat on Feb 22, 2015 13:31:39 GMT
Honestly? There's no way I want to do it for her. No way. He's dealt with enough of their snark that I'm not really interested in doing things for them. For FH, sure. Them, no way. I need to get rid of that bitterness though. It's hard but I'm working on it. That I can totally understand. Best of luck with everything. Make it YOUR day. Oh we definitely are. Much to the chagrin of a few people... I think. But others are all for it! So that's all that matters. |
|
grinningcat
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,663
Jun 26, 2014 13:06:35 GMT
|
Post by grinningcat on Feb 22, 2015 13:36:12 GMT
Sigh. I'll be blunt, it pisses me off that you're saying I'm buckling. I don't think I am when I am giving my FH a say in HIS wedding ceremony. He has said he wants this, so do I just tell him to fuck off and it's my way or the highway? Somehow that seems a lot more disingenuous than trying to figure out what we're doing by looking at all the options. Do I want a church wedding? No. We've already fought that battle. It's not happening. He wants to meet with this priest, an alleged family friend to find out what the deal is. Does that mean we're going with him? No. Why? Because I have some big issues with having a church ceremony. I don't mind a bible reading, I don't mind a prayer, I do not under any circumstance want a religious ceremony or a Catholic ceremony. Thus why I asked if he has to follow the prescribed ceremony. I'd like him to be there if it makes my FH happy, but I don't want him to do a Church ceremony. Thus why I asked people's experiences. Because I have a feeling that I know where things are going, and it's not towards a priest led ceremony. Thank you for letting me know that trying to have my FH involved and have him reflected in our wedding day is buckling. I had no idea that doing something that the groom wanted for a wedding that is just as much his as it is mine is disingenuous. I learned something new (and yes, this post pissed me off though I expected nothing less from this board) and got a better idea of what to expect even though every parish and priest is different. My intention wasn't to piss you off. I'm just surprised given how strong your beliefs are (at least that is how you present on this board) that you would get married by a priest. I would think differently if this was something that was very important to your fiance, but you have indicated he is only considering it because it's important to his parents. I would find a different way to incorporate the priest if it is so important to his parents - maybe saying grace at dinner or something similar. That is precisely what I am trying to do. Thus asking for other people's situations. I'm pretty sure this won't work, but I wanted to make sure. Honestly? I could be married by a priest if it wasn't within the confines of a church. I can think of a baptist minister that I would ask in a heart beat, but I don't know what regulations she's under so I won't ask her. But she's awesome and I'd ask her in a heartbeat. So I'm not all anti-priest. I'm just anti-getting married in a church to please others because it's "what's done". As I said, I need to find out if this is truly a friend of his that he'd like to have there or if it's a trying to please mommy thing. And I have said that I would gladly have him come and say a prayer in the ceremony as a compromise (I think this would be the first non-church wedding ever). So we'll see. Honestly? Part of me wants to go bridezilla and say "no way. no meeting. no priest. we're going with the officiant" except that's horribly unfair, especially not having all the facts. Until we have the facts in place, I won't pull that card. |
|
JustTricia
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,826
Location: Indianapolis
|
Post by JustTricia on Feb 22, 2015 13:53:41 GMT
Sigh. I'll be blunt, it pisses me off that you're saying I'm buckling. I don't think I am when I am giving my FH a say in HIS wedding ceremony. He has said he wants this, so do I just tell him to fuck off and it's my way or the highway? Somehow that seems a lot more disingenuous than trying to figure out what we're doing by looking at all the options. Do I want a church wedding? No. We've already fought that battle. It's not happening. He wants to meet with this priest, an alleged family friend to find out what the deal is. Does that mean we're going with him? No. Why? Because I have some big issues with having a church ceremony. I don't mind a bible reading, I don't mind a prayer, I do not under any circumstance want a religious ceremony or a Catholic ceremony. Thus why I asked if he has to follow the prescribed ceremony. I'd like him to be there if it makes my FH happy, but I don't want him to do a Church ceremony. Thus why I asked people's experiences. Because I have a feeling that I know where things are going, and it's not towards a priest led ceremony. Thank you for letting me know that trying to have my FH involved and have him reflected in our wedding day is buckling. I had no idea that doing something that the groom wanted for a wedding that is just as much his as it is mine is disingenuous. I learned something new (and yes, this post pissed me off though I expected nothing less from this board) and got a better idea of what to expect even though every parish and priest is different. My intention wasn't to piss you off. I'm just surprised given how strong your beliefs are (at least that is how you present on this board) that you would get married by a priest. I would think differently if this was something that was very important to your fiance, but you have indicated he is only considering it because it's important to his parents. I would find a different way to incorporate the priest if it is so important to his parents - maybe saying grace at dinner or something similar. I've gotten the impression from everything she's posted that that is exactly what she's trying to do. |
|
AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,968
|
Post by AnotherPea on Feb 22, 2015 14:51:38 GMT
Ooh, bad memories are flooding back. I (not Catholic, nor religious), married a Catholic ( non practicing) 32 years ago. I agreed to get married by a priest (dh's dad's cousin twice removed) in theCatholic church. I agreed that I would do the marriage classes and, if necessary, even get baptized in another religion (the priest overlooked the nom- baptized part), but that I did NOT want a mass and that I would NOT agree to raise my children Catholic. In a face to face meeting with the priest, he agreed to my stipulations. Well, during the rehearsal, my maid of honor Catholic friend told me that since they were discussing when the communion part was going to take place, that we were indeed having a mass. I was pissed and spoke to the priest who then told me that it was not possible to not have a mass. It was my mother in law who insisted (although she herself was a non practicing catholic). I almost did not go through with the ceremony, but my mom and dad (my dad initially wasn't going to go to the wedding if it was in a Catholic Church) told me just to go on and enjoy my day and forget about that little detail. So, I made it through the mass, did not agree to raise my children Catholic although the priest asked me three times to "just say yes" ( which would have been hypocritical in my little moral, but not religious mind). I am still married, do not have Catholic children and still cannot stand my mother in law. I do think that the priest does have some latitude with the rules he is going to follow and I have been to plenty of ceremonies before and since without masses and this summer, my niece was married at a park by a Catholic priest. Stick to your guns and enjoy YOUR day! this sounds so familiar. My friend, who married a Catholic man in a civil ceremony, was tricked by her in-laws' priest too. The children weren't baptized as my friend's religion thinks that should wait until the child make his/her own choice. Friend and immediately family attended some service at MIL's church - I believe it was the first time the nephew was an altar boy? Anyhow, MIL asked if she could cuddle with the newest baby, about four months old, during the ceremony. She sat right up front. Then, part way through the service, MIL runs up to the altar with the baby and the priest baptizes him. Totally against Friend's wishes. She had apparently done something similar, all hush-hush, with the oldest one a couple of months earlier.
This MIL used to brag how she had "special permission" to baptize babies herself when she was a labor and delivery nurse in Jersey. She and a friend of hers would sneak into the nursery when it was quiet and baptize all of the Jewish babies. Makes me sick.
|
|
|
|
Post by kelbel827 on Feb 22, 2015 16:37:23 GMT
I didn't even come close to reading all the responses as just reading about all this reminds me why I'm atheist. I'm not married. I don't know what I would do if I were engaged to someone who was religious. I do know that I would not convert just so my SO could get married in a church.
I know someone who worked in a Catholic school. She got married, got divorced, and then wanted to remarry. Her contract for her school said that she would only keep her job if she remarried in a Catholic church. Her fiance was not Catholic. So, she had to go back, pay to have her first marriage annulled. Then her fiance had to become Catholic (even though he didn't believe)He also had to pay to have his first marriage annulled. Then they could get married in a Catholic church all so she wouldn't lose her job.
If I wasn't turned off by this whole thing already, that would have done it.
|
|
grinningcat
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,663
Jun 26, 2014 13:06:35 GMT
|
Post by grinningcat on Feb 22, 2015 16:51:45 GMT
Ooh, bad memories are flooding back. I (not Catholic, nor religious), married a Catholic ( non practicing) 32 years ago. I agreed to get married by a priest (dh's dad's cousin twice removed) in theCatholic church. I agreed that I would do the marriage classes and, if necessary, even get baptized in another religion (the priest overlooked the nom- baptized part), but that I did NOT want a mass and that I would NOT agree to raise my children Catholic. In a face to face meeting with the priest, he agreed to my stipulations. Well, during the rehearsal, my maid of honor Catholic friend told me that since they were discussing when the communion part was going to take place, that we were indeed having a mass. I was pissed and spoke to the priest who then told me that it was not possible to not have a mass. It was my mother in law who insisted (although she herself was a non practicing catholic). I almost did not go through with the ceremony, but my mom and dad (my dad initially wasn't going to go to the wedding if it was in a Catholic Church) told me just to go on and enjoy my day and forget about that little detail. So, I made it through the mass, did not agree to raise my children Catholic although the priest asked me three times to "just say yes" ( which would have been hypocritical in my little moral, but not religious mind). I am still married, do not have Catholic children and still cannot stand my mother in law. I do think that the priest does have some latitude with the rules he is going to follow and I have been to plenty of ceremonies before and since without masses and this summer, my niece was married at a park by a Catholic priest. Stick to your guns and enjoy YOUR day! this sounds so familiar. My friend, who married a Catholic man in a civil ceremony, was tricked by her in-laws' priest too. The children weren't baptized as my friend's religion thinks that should wait until the child make his/her own choice. Friend and immediately family attended some service at MIL's church - I believe it was the first time the nephew was an altar boy? Anyhow, MIL asked if she could cuddle with the newest baby, about four months old, during the ceremony. She sat right up front. Then, part way through the service, MIL runs up to the altar with the baby and the priest baptizes him. Totally against Friend's wishes. She had apparently done something similar, all hush-hush, with the oldest one a couple of months earlier.
This MIL used to brag how she had "special permission" to baptize babies herself when she was a labor and delivery nurse in Jersey. She and a friend of hers would sneak into the nursery when it was quiet and baptize all of the Jewish babies. Makes me sick.
That is sickening. Can't say I could see MIL doing that, thankfully. But stranger things have happened. But that is positively disgusting. |
|
grinningcat
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,663
Jun 26, 2014 13:06:35 GMT
|
Post by grinningcat on Feb 22, 2015 16:52:32 GMT
I didn't even come close to reading all the responses as just reading about all this reminds me why I'm atheist. I'm not married. I don't know what I would do if I were engaged to someone who was religious. I do know that I would not convert just so my SO could get married in a church. I know someone who worked in a Catholic school. She got married, got divorced, and then wanted to remarry. Her contract for her school said that she would only keep her job if she remarried in a Catholic church. Her fiance was not Catholic. So, she had to go back, pay to have her first marriage annulled. Then her fiance had to become Catholic (even though he didn't believe)He also had to pay to have his first marriage annulled. Then they could get married in a Catholic church all so she wouldn't lose her job. If I wasn't turned off by this whole thing already, that would have done it. Yeah. That's not cool either. And I totally agree with you. If anything, this reaffirms my being an atheist. |
|
|
|
Post by shannoots on Feb 22, 2015 18:51:13 GMT
My dh grew up Catholic and I did not. He had not been to church for many years when we got married. I asked him if he wanted to get married in the church and he did not. So we got married on the beach in Florida, by a retired Baptist minister. Some of his family members were upset about this. Some did not come to our wedding. I did feel a little bad because it upset his mom that some of the family wasn't coming but I ultimately left it up to him. If he would have been passionate about getting married in the Catholic church, I would've gone along with it. In the end, it is your wedding and you cannot please everyone. You might need to compromise some and your future dh might need to, but I think you should try to find a way for both of you to be happy with your wedding. By the way, my dh's family got over it. We were the first to get married and neither of his siblings got married in the church either.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 7, 2024 17:30:18 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2015 18:56:36 GMT
I find it offensive when people choose to disregard THEIR OWN beliefs to appease the beliefs of family members.
If the church is so important to your future family members, why would they want someone who DOESN'T believe to make a farce of their sacred ceremonies? Why should someone who apparently loves and cares for someone else, want that person to LIE, to make them happy? Why is a LIE a good thing?
Why is it so expected that people who don't believe cater to the feelings of the believers?
I'm so adamantly against following religious ceremonies and expectations to make other people happy, I need to stop here before I really offend someone!
|
|
|
|
Post by Basket1lady on Feb 23, 2015 0:32:16 GMT
this sounds so familiar. My friend, who married a Catholic man in a civil ceremony, was tricked by her in-laws' priest too. The children weren't baptized as my friend's religion thinks that should wait until the child make his/her own choice. Friend and immediately family attended some service at MIL's church - I believe it was the first time the nephew was an altar boy? Anyhow, MIL asked if she could cuddle with the newest baby, about four months old, during the ceremony. She sat right up front. Then, part way through the service, MIL runs up to the altar with the baby and the priest baptizes him. Totally against Friend's wishes. She had apparently done something similar, all hush-hush, with the oldest one a couple of months earlier.
This MIL used to brag how she had "special permission" to baptize babies herself when she was a labor and delivery nurse in Jersey. She and a friend of hers would sneak into the nursery when it was quiet and baptize all of the Jewish babies. Makes me sick.
This is so wrong on so many levels. What priest would ever agree to this? What MIL would ever do this? A lay person is able to baptize is an emergency situation. But a healthy Jewish baby is not an ermergency situation. Grinningcat, I think the idea of the priest doing a blessing (meaning an unofficial blessing), a prayer, a reading, or something like that is a nice idea. I'm pretty sure that is allowed as well. I wish you all the luck. |
|
|
|
Post by christine58 on Feb 23, 2015 0:50:39 GMT
That MIL is nutty because no priest would give anyone permission to baptize Jewish babies.
|
|
|
|
Post by vpohlman on Feb 23, 2015 3:08:33 GMT
My mom was First Christian Reformed and my dad was Catholic. They got married in her mother's living room by her minister and a priest was there to bless the marriage. That was really hard for my grandma! She never was nice to dad or my sister and I because we were Catholic. Fast forward to my marriage. I was raised Catholic and my husband is Methodist. We got married in our friend's living room by a Methodist minister. A year later we had a renewal of vows by a Catholic priest. He was awesome! We signed up for classes and he met with us and told us that in God's eyes we were already married and it was kind of silly to go through all the classes. Was I going to stay Catholic? Yes. It was all good, we had a nice reception and here we are 23 years later. My Catholic family didn't care, my protestant family didn't care and my husband's family didn't care. We just wanted to be married. We didn't care who cared or who showed up! It was our wedding and we did it our way. So did my parents. Grandma was crabby to my dad for the rest of her life, but dad just laughed her off or ignored her. It's completely do-able and it's completely only your business. Find the right priest. Ask around and talk to some. They are out there. I have faith that you can do this!
|
|
cycworker
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,375
|
Post by cycworker on Feb 23, 2015 7:37:57 GMT
I haven't read the whole thread but I'm sure I'm in the minority.
Your relationship with your inlaws matters. My hope is that because this priest is already retired, he'll able to finagle some leeway. But if not, imo, you suck it up and get married in a church and have the minimum you need to have. If you can skip the mass, great... I know where I live in Canada, for whatever reason there are Catholic churches that don't do a mass as part of the ceremony. But if you are required to have the mass, you have it. If you're required to say you'll raise the any kids you have Catholic, you say it. If you do have kids later, DH can tell the in laws you talked & you two changed your mind, you both prefer to expose your kids to a variety of world views and let them decide when they're old enough.
|
|
cycworker
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,375
|
Post by cycworker on Feb 23, 2015 7:58:31 GMT
What it comes down to is I don't think your wedding is just for you. Your families matter just as much. You can't risk a scenario where someone in DH's family won't come because the ceremony isn't Catholic or isn't in a church. You must honour your families and abide by their wishes this case. My brother & sister in law would have been just as happy to not be married in a church, but it mattered to both sets of inlaws, and the kids were reminded that were their grandparents still alive, it would be important to them, and they had an obligation to respect their memory by having their ceremony in a church. Basically, they were politely told to suck it up, which they did.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 7, 2024 17:30:18 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2015 8:24:56 GMT
Ooh, bad memories are flooding back. I (not Catholic, nor religious), married a Catholic ( non practicing) 32 years ago. I agreed to get married by a priest (dh's dad's cousin twice removed) in theCatholic church. I agreed that I would do the marriage classes and, if necessary, even get baptized in another religion (the priest overlooked the nom- baptized part), but that I did NOT want a mass and that I would NOT agree to raise my children Catholic. In a face to face meeting with the priest, he agreed to my stipulations. Well, during the rehearsal, my maid of honor Catholic friend told me that since they were discussing when the communion part was going to take place, that we were indeed having a mass. I was pissed and spoke to the priest who then told me that it was not possible to not have a mass. It was my mother in law who insisted (although she herself was a non practicing catholic). I almost did not go through with the ceremony, but my mom and dad (my dad initially wasn't going to go to the wedding if it was in a Catholic Church) told me just to go on and enjoy my day and forget about that little detail. So, I made it through the mass, did not agree to raise my children Catholic although the priest asked me three times to "just say yes" ( which would have been hypocritical in my little moral, but not religious mind). I am still married, do not have Catholic children and still cannot stand my mother in law. I do think that the priest does have some latitude with the rules he is going to follow and I have been to plenty of ceremonies before and since without masses and this summer, my niece was married at a park by a Catholic priest. Stick to your guns and enjoy YOUR day! this sounds so familiar. My friend, who married a Catholic man in a civil ceremony, was tricked by her in-laws' priest too. The children weren't baptized as my friend's religion thinks that should wait until the child make his/her own choice. Friend and immediately family attended some service at MIL's church - I believe it was the first time the nephew was an altar boy? Anyhow, MIL asked if she could cuddle with the newest baby, about four months old, during the ceremony. She sat right up front. Then, part way through the service, MIL runs up to the altar with the baby and the priest baptizes him. Totally against Friend's wishes. She had apparently done something similar, all hush-hush, with the oldest one a couple of months earlier.
This MIL used to brag how she had "special permission" to baptize babies herself when she was a labor and delivery nurse in Jersey. She and a friend of hers would sneak into the nursery when it was quiet and baptize all of the Jewish babies. Makes me sick.
I don't agree with that at all and it makes me sick thinking about it, but honestly, it's water-to a non-believer it's not holy water, it's just H2O. The Jewish babies are no more Catholic than I am and all they got was a sprinkling of water on the head. Their families are non-believers. I do think it's wrong in all sense of the word wrong and she is abusing her power she may have been granted but it's just water. If no one ever told the parents, then the kids are still as Jewish as Barbra Streisand is (I happen to like her as a singer). As a Muslim, if someone had done that to my son's head now, I would be upset about it, but if I didn't know about it then I would be no wiser. If the nursery gave him a bottle I wouldn't have minded that either. I would raise my son to be raised how I wanted him raised. He would take his shahada when he is old enough (it's just a declaration that there is no God other than God. Like the Apostles Creed). If my son wants to be a Buddhist I am ok with that. If he wants to join Konkokyo I have mixed feelings about that. They are kinda new age and the obligatory monetary thing (in the hundreds of dollars for whatever reason due to superstition I am not big on) would make me ask him does he really want that, but if he does then I am ok with it. It's ultimately his choice and his happiness. |
|
anniebygaslight
Drama Llama
I'd love a cup of tea. #1966
Posts: 7,394
Location: Third Rock from the sun.
Jun 28, 2014 14:08:19 GMT
|
Post by anniebygaslight on Feb 23, 2015 13:31:03 GMT
. Special permission from whom? Utterly disgusting and totally ridiculous. I am a midwife and would never contemplate such a thing and I can't think of a single colleague who would either. I could envisage a massive disciplinary situation arising from such unwanted and unwarranted conduct. I would certainly have referred the matter to those in authority if someone had done this too child of mine.
|
|
grinningcat
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,663
Jun 26, 2014 13:06:35 GMT
|
Post by grinningcat on Feb 23, 2015 13:38:30 GMT
I find it offensive when people choose to disregard THEIR OWN beliefs to appease the beliefs of family members. If the church is so important to your future family members, why would they want someone who DOESN'T believe to make a farce of their sacred ceremonies? Why should someone who apparently loves and cares for someone else, want that person to LIE, to make them happy? Why is a LIE a good thing? Why is it so expected that people who don't believe cater to the feelings of the believers? I'm so adamantly against following religious ceremonies and expectations to make other people happy, I need to stop here before I really offend someone! You know what? I agree with you. I don't want a church ceremony, I don't want a meaningless to me ceremony, I want something that is personal and meaningful to both of us. Thus why I'm trying to find out what my options are. Church ceremony is out of the question. But I want to find out what this priest can or cannot do, so that if this priest is so important to my SO, we can have him there and come to a compromise in the middle that will be beneficial for both of us. I don't like the feeling of being manipulated and I've already fought it once over this wedding, I'm more than ready to fight it again. Trust me, I will not be buckling under and doing what they want us to do. I just need to find out what my options are before making any kind of decision. I haven't read the whole thread but I'm sure I'm in the minority. Your relationship with your inlaws matters. My hope is that because this priest is already retired, he'll able to finagle some leeway. But if not, imo, you suck it up and get married in a church and have the minimum you need to have. If you can skip the mass, great... I know where I live in Canada, for whatever reason there are Catholic churches that don't do a mass as part of the ceremony. But if you are required to have the mass, you have it. If you're required to say you'll raise the any kids you have Catholic, you say it. If you do have kids later, DH can tell the in laws you talked & you two changed your mind, you both prefer to expose your kids to a variety of world views and let them decide when they're old enough. Nope. I will not suck it up and have a church wedding because someone demanded it of me. Nor will I say that I will raise the children in a Catholic home, if SO wants Catholic children I will not stop him but that education will not be my responsibility. I will not lie to the church, that is not fair to me, my SO, our families, the priest or the church. I am surprised that you would okay lying to a church. What it comes down to is I don't think your wedding is just for you. Your families matter just as much. You can't risk a scenario where someone in DH's family won't come because the ceremony isn't Catholic or isn't in a church. You must honour your families and abide by their wishes this case. My brother & sister in law would have been just as happy to not be married in a church, but it mattered to both sets of inlaws, and the kids were reminded that were their grandparents still alive, it would be important to them, and they had an obligation to respect their memory by having their ceremony in a church. Basically, they were politely told to suck it up, which they did. No again. I am not sucking it up and having the wedding they want because that's what they think is right. If they want that kind of wedding, they can have their own wedding. Fact is, that family isn't paying for anything so they don't get a say. And with all the grief they've given us about the venue and other things, if they didn't come, fine. It's a handful less to pay for and I'd rather pay for people who actually love us and want to celebrate with us... without demands. I will not "suck it up" to hostile demands. No way. No how. We are including some of the traditions normally seen at their culture's weddings, but only because SO brought up that he'd like to do them. Do I want to make my entrance to the dinner to their culture's music? No, I'd rather have something fun and more significant to the two of us, but because he wants to do a specific cultural tradition involving the bride and groom and candy, that's what I get to walk in to. So never fear, they are not being whitewashed out of the wedding, I'm just not falling for their guilt trips and demands. That's not what family does. Thankfully, my family has approached things with tact and openness instead of demands and guilt trips. Guess which family we are gravitating towards? Honestly, the whole cliche of the man disappearing to the wife's family thing could come true if this bullshit keeps up... and it won't be my fault. They've done a good enough job on their own. I understand that in your culture guilt and domination and demands are acceptable. In my world and in my family, they are not. And I think it's wrong and demeaning to treat family members like that. My mom was First Christian Reformed and my dad was Catholic. They got married in her mother's living room by her minister and a priest was there to bless the marriage. That was really hard for my grandma! She never was nice to dad or my sister and I because we were Catholic. Fast forward to my marriage. I was raised Catholic and my husband is Methodist. We got married in our friend's living room by a Methodist minister. A year later we had a renewal of vows by a Catholic priest. He was awesome! We signed up for classes and he met with us and told us that in God's eyes we were already married and it was kind of silly to go through all the classes. Was I going to stay Catholic? Yes. It was all good, we had a nice reception and here we are 23 years later. My Catholic family didn't care, my protestant family didn't care and my husband's family didn't care. We just wanted to be married. We didn't care who cared or who showed up! It was our wedding and we did it our way. So did my parents. Grandma was crabby to my dad for the rest of her life, but dad just laughed her off or ignored her. It's completely do-able and it's completely only your business. Find the right priest. Ask around and talk to some. They are out there. I have faith that you can do this! Thanks. I want to find out all our options before we sit down and make a decision. We will find a way.  Again, I want to thank everyone who is sharing their opinions and stories. It's helping me to think this through and to figure out what I need to know and what we need to discuss. It is much appreciated. |
|
